GYMN-L Digest - 30 May 1996 to 31 May 1996

There are 17 messages totalling 447 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. HELP!
2. Ohio
3. Devaluing vs.deductions (3)
4. GYMN-L Digest - 29 May 1996 to 30 May 1996
5. USA:olympic tv schedule
6. USA: Olympic TV Schedule (NBC)
7. Fig code
8. answers for "dorky code questions"
9. Dom M. in Star Mag.
10. More announcer bloopers (2)
11. Help!!!!!
12. % of body fat?
13. Olympic Coaches?
14. WAG-MAG: Grand Prix of Rome

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 13:19:45 GMT
From: ***@FELIXSTOWE.EM.SLB.COM
Subject: HELP!

I need to get away for a period of time. What I would like to do is go to
the U.S or Canada and train/work at a club or camp. Is there any head
coaches out there who is willing to help or can supply me with information
concerning gymnastics clubs and camps. I'm based in the U.K and looking to
work for 3-4 months, longer if possible. Thankyou in advance and If you can
help please e_mail me privately.


Martin.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:52:06 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Ohio

Hey,

If anybody out there goes to Ohio State University and is on the gymnastics
team, mail me, I HAVE TO ask you about something, thanks "-)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:56:06 -0400
From: ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Devaluing vs.deductions

On Thu, 30 May 1996, Eric wrote:

> this is part of the reason why Gymnastics remains an elite,
> non-understandable sport for the common joe. In figure skating if they fall
> on their behinds, everyone watching knows the score will be lower. In gymn,
> screwing up your routine in the early part of the rotation means you get a
> gold medal (Khorkina-worlds). No wonder we are seen as one of the worst
> judged sports in the Olympic program-and don't get me started on Rhythmic!

Are you joking? Comparing figure skating judging *favorably* with
gymnastics judging? Figure skating is what makes me feel better when I
get upset about gymnastics judging. And falls as an example, of all
things. Except for unusual arguably "gray" situations (Silivas optional
BB at Rotterdam; Shannon compulsory UB at Dortmund)(I say "arguably"
because I didn't think they were that unclear, but at least I can
understand some difference of opinion there), in gymnastics you lose 0.5
if you fall. In skating, as far as this "skating common joe" can tell,
judges do whatever they feel like doing to a much greater degree than
they do in gymnastics. Are there mandatory deductions for anything
(outside of missing required elements in the short program)? I at least
can't say that as a common joe when I watch skating I *know* the score
will be lower with a fall; I feel more comfortably saying that in
gymnastics. And don't even get me started on the "artistic impression"
score.

Or maybe it just looks that way #Wj

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:03:26 -0400
From: ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Devaluing vs.deductions

To finish that thought (my phone interrupted my modem):

Or maybe it just looks that way to me because I know gymnastics judging
and I don't know figure skating judging too well.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:10:56 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 29 May 1996 to 30 May 1996

Hey Jeff !
Thanks for the cybernote.
The deductions for the errors you mentioned are already in place. As they
have been since the beginning of the age. Changing the scoring system is
chronically needed. Gymnasts do not receive the credit they are due for the
ever increasing difficulty they perform. Additionally, the more difficult
routines do not always score higher than routines which merely meet minimum
requirements.
My viewpoint is not new. Those of us who share this view understand the ill
affects of the present system in all it's aspects. In a system where
difficulty is scored in a category which is then added to the other
categories, the gymnast may or often will score above 10. The ultimate new
frontier would become to break the 20.0 barrier.
Compulsories in gymnastics are eliminated for reasons which also warrant
changing the scoring system. The insight which solved the compulsories
dilemma needs to be applied to the scoring system.
With a properly modified scoring system you would indeed witness deductions
applied in the areas which you, me, and everyone else knows are ignored.
Kindly,


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 09:37:31 -0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: USA:olympic tv schedule

Here is the URL - I don't have time right now to make it text, but for
those of you with WWW access

http://www.olympics.nbc.com/programming/nbctv.html

Mayland

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 10:05:14 -0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: USA: Olympic TV Schedule (NBC)

This is on NBC ...
Remember they are showing other sports in here, but at least you know which
days you need to be home <g>

7/19 8p - 12a Opening Ceremonies

Artistic Schedule
-----------------
7/20 3p - 6p Men's Team Competition
7:30p - 12a Men's Team Compeition

7/21 12p - 6p Women's team competition
7p - 12a Women's team competition

7/22 10a - 1p Men's team competition
7:30 -12a Men's team finals

7/23 10a - 1p Women's team competition
7:30p-12a Women's team finals

7/24 7:30p -12a Men's AA finals

7/25 7:30p - 12a Women's AA Finals

7/28 7p - 12a Men's and Women's Event Finals

7/29 7p - 12a Men's and Women's Event Finals

7/30 7:30p -12a Champions Exhibition

-----------------------
Rhythmic Schedule
-----------------------

8/1 10a - 1p Individual
7:30p - 12a Group

8/2 10a - 1p Individual
7:30p - 12a Group

8/3 7p-12a Semifinal Individual

8/4 7a - 5:30p Final Individual
6:30p - 11:30p Closing ceremonies

I will try to check for updates. I still recommend going to the NBC
olympic page for the fancy tables and other sports.

Mayland

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:12:52 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Fig code

In a message dated 96-05-30 06:06:03 EDT, Bill writes:

> If the 2 routines are performed at the same level of exercise
>presentation, by the rules, they should have the same score. However, I
>would submit that the first routine is vastly superior and should easily
win.

I agree with you, but what mechanism do you propose to discriminate between
them?

Dean

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:12:59 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: answers for "dorky code questions"

In a message dated 96-05-30 06:06:03 EDT, Brett writes:

>dorky code questions.. specifically mens FX.
>
>Is a double turn truly a B? Is there any value raising or extra brownies for
>doing a B-C, B-B, C-B, B-B-C or C-C? What are the consequences for leaving
>out any of the special requirements?

I believe a double turn is indeed a B (but I don't have my code handy) but
perhaps one of the other mens' judges out there will correct me if I am
wrong. It's the same sort of cheap B as a backhandspring chest roll.
Generally used by gymnasts who don't have enough tumbling B's to fill out
their difficulty.
Currently there is value raising on FX, but only for combinations of flipping
elements. EX: a front is a B, but a front-front is a C.
Leaving out a special requirement is a 0.4 deduction.
>
>Is a triple turn a C? How about a jump double? Are handstand pirouettes
>worth anything?

I certainly would be very reluctant as a judge to give a C for a triple turn.
I would have to be shown the value in writing.
Handstand pirouettes are generally only worth anything in combination with
other skills like a backextension roll or a flair to handstand.
>
>Is a switch leap an A? or just have no value?

I don't believe there are any value dance moves on floor. We don't see them
often in any case.
>
>The fate of the universe hinges on these answers..

Dean
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 13:46:24 -0500
From: ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: Dom M. in Star Mag.

Just picked up this weeks issue of STAR magazine (yeah I know it's a
rag) and on page 19 is an article on Dom M. and a photo of her on
beam. The article calls her "America's hope for olympic gold on the
bars and beams". Talk about putting pressure on a kid. It also goes
on to say that Bela is "convinced little Dominique will wipe the
floor with the competition in July, just like Nadia did".
There is a bit more to the article, with a quote from Nadia herself
regarding Dom.

Gymnastically yours,
Linda

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 14:57:00 EDT
From: ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: More announcer bloopers

Just a funny thing-- I was watching a tape of the triplecast showing of
the Barcelona women's FX final, and Peter Vidmar had this to say about
Silvia Mitova's routine: "She has difficult tumbling, but just lacks
some of the dance skills." Hello? Thought I'd share that with y'all.
When did they make the decision to count trials 100% for the women? I'm
not sure that will yield the best team, but c'est la vie... --Joy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 12:55:17 +0100
From: ***@ASUCLA.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Re: More announcer bloopers

----------
Peter Vidmar is a needlebutt... If there was a needle inside his butt, it
would take a tractor to pull it out... hence the term needlebutt

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 22:02:29 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Help!!!!!

I'm sorry that I am posting this to the Gymn-list but can somebody please
help me get off DIGEST. I hate it! I've tried everything and nothing seems
to work. I was recieving mail and then I became unsubscribed, when I
resubscribed it automatically gave me DIGESt form. Can somebody please help
me get rid of it?

Thanks,
Patrice

PS: I am really sorry about posting this to the list.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:05:34 -0700
From: ***@VCN.BC.CA
Subject: % of body fat?

Hi! Everyone,

I think this question was asked awhile back, I don't remember if someone
answer the question or not. Anyway I was curious, so I mention this
question on a swimming list and I got a response. Looks like gymnast are
at the top!

>According to some material I have read, male elite swimmers have about 10%
>body fat. Some other sports (male):
> Gymnastics- 4%
> Basketball- 7%
> Soccer- 10%
> Distance Runners- 11%
> Discus Throwers, Shot Put- 17%
> Average American Male- 23%


>Elite female swimmers about 19%. Some other sports (female):
> Gymnastics- 14%
> Cross Country Skiers- 18%
> Tennis Players- 20%
> Track and Field, Basketball- 21%
> Average American Female- 32%

Crazy about gymnastic,
Thomas

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:55:25 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Devaluing vs.deductions

In a message dated 96-05-30 09:15:02 EDT, Adriana wrote:


> Are there mandatory deductions for anything
>(outside of missing required elements in the short program)? I at least
>can't say that as a common joe when I watch skating I *know* the score
>will be lower with a fall; I feel more comfortably saying that in
>gymnastics. And don't even get me started on the "artistic impression"
>score.

I must say that I *totally* agree!! At least in gymnastics, except for a few
cases like she mentioned, correct deductions are taken when there is a
major/obvious mistake. Although I am an avid fan of both sports, IMO, this
does not seem to be the case in figure skating. Excluding the short program,
mandatory deductions are *not* consistently taken for blatant errors, even if
they are falls. I have seen a 5.9 (out of 6.0) given for technical merit
during a performance in which the skater fell! Have you ever seen a 9.9 given
to a gymnast who fell off the UB or the BB?

Now that I think about it, required deductions aren't always taken into
consideration, even during the short program. For example, at this year's
World Championships, Tonia Kwiakowski skated a clean (no major mistakes)
short program and received *lower* technical marks than Surya Bonaly who fell
on her combiantion jump. What's wrong with this picture? I can't remember a
time when a gymnast who suffered a fall in his/her routine (i.e. in event
finals) placed above someone who hit a clean exercise!

In addition, the range of scores in figure skating is sometimes amazing - 5.1
to 5.9 for the same performance (and the high and low scores are not thrown
out). At least in gymnastics, a conference occurs and the judges discuss the
exercise if the scores are out of range. There is no such thing within the
sport of figure skating.

The judging within the sport of gymnastics is *far* from perfect, but I don't
think the figure skating world has the answers!

Just my opinion,

Amy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 21:57:37 -0700
From: ***@FLUTE.AIX.CALPOLY.EDU
Subject: Olympic Coaches?

I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, but here goes my question...

Depending on who makes the olympic team, is there one Olympic Coach, and
all the members of the national team train under one coach, or do they
still train under their usual coaches. For instance, shannon miller and
dominique dawes were on the team, would their usual coaches be there?

Another question is if there is an age limit for the olympics, or
gymnastics in general, because someone told me it was 16, and I'm
wondering if D. Moceano (sp?) is even 16 yet...thanks

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:26:57 +0200
From: ***@MICRONET.IT
Subject: WAG-MAG: Grand Prix of Rome

Within two hours, you will find the complete results of the Grand Prix of
Rome at this internet address

http://www.nbn.it/itagym/grandpri/roma96.html

There, click on the link "I risultati".

Podkopayeva and Podgorny won the AA. Lilia won the four finals too with a
great UB exercise.

------------------------------

End of GYMN-L Digest - 30 May 1996 to 31 May 1996
*************************************************