GYMN-L Digest - 31 Jul 1996 - Special issue
There
are 19 messages totalling 614 lines in this
issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Dom not an idiot for having a
goal
2. Gymnast comparisons.
(2)
3. Khorkina's
Bars victory.
4. The way to
win gold medals!
5. Last
night's final!
6. Begging
letter...
7. New Elements at
Olympics?
8. International
tape trades
9. Web
Address
10. Flashes-
Apology?
11. GYMN-L Digest - 31
Jul 1996 - Special issue
12.
Flashes, the crowd, other comments
13. College Eligibility and making
money...
14. The MAG-7's
routine music
15. Kerri
bandwagon - not me!
16. Tour of
World Gymn Champions//Info & Questions
17. U.S. Olympic Coverage
18. Odd One Out
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:20:52
-0400
From: ***@IAC.NET
Subject:
Dom not an idiot for having a goal
Sorry for not including the text
(difficult for me because of the
digest), but I'm
responding to the person who wants to ask Dom M if she
feels
like an idiot for having a goal.
Geez, she was (and is) a little
kid. I mean, when she signed
those
autographs, how old was she *11*?? *12*?!
I agree that the media was ridiculous for
focusing so much on her - and
that she really
didn't have a great chance of winning, but let's not
blame
it on her for being a favorite. She
had a goal - and made a
premature prediction at
the age of (gasp) 12 (?).
Amy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:20:48
-0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject:
Gymnast comparisons.
I was thinking about Shannon Miller's performance
at Atlanta and the end of
her career. I kind of came across an interesting comparison. She
and
another gymnast had similar careers.
Both
Shannon and GYMNAST X came tho their first olympics and won silver
medals
in the AA.
Both
Shannon and gymnast X both were overshadowed in the media by another
member of their team in their first Olympics.
Both
came out of the shadows as the new force on their team.
Both won
AA medals in two consecutive worlds (two years in a row).
Both
won the AA in the last of the two consecutive worlds.
Both have
won FX at worlds.
Both went into their second worlds overshadowed
by a younger teammate.
Both won team golds
in their second Olympics infront of home crowds.
Both
made errors in the AA finals in their last Olympics and didn't win
a medal.
Both won their last event final in
their last Olympics.
Who's Gymnast X? Well, it's Nelli Kim!
Nelli
entered Montreal overshadowed by Olga Korbut. She won
AA silver, Vault
and FX and came out as the new
leader on Soviet Gymnastics. She enetered
her first worlds in Strasbourg and won AA silver (plus FX
with Mukhina, and
team).
She entered her second worlds in 1979 In Fort Worth and won
the AA, but she was overshadowed in the press by Mukhina, the reigning
world
champ who was injured at the time. She won her second team gold
in Moscow, her home country (USR then) and had an error in
FX in AA
finals and missed an AA medal. She then
won FX gold (a tie with Nadia)
in her last
Olympics event final.
Kind of weird how they were similar in those retrospects, but they were
vastly
different in others. Nelli was older, married,
(twice) and there
were other differences. But
these were interesting!
Jeff
Dina, Dina,
Dina.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:25:28
-0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject:
Khorkina's Bars victory.
I don't know if NBC
told people this, but Svetlana's UB gold was the first
UB gold for a
gymnast from the Soviet Union or former Soviet Union since
1964! Wow!
And
Pods's FX gold was the first from the former soviet union since 1980.
This is amazing, since for
along time soviet gymnast were considered
to the
best in terms of choreography and artistry on FX. You wouldn't know
that by just looking at the Olympic medals.
Jeff
Dina,
Dina, Dina.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:39:28
EDT
From: ***@JUNO.COM
Subject:
The way to win gold medals!
well, thanks for the info. but it
is patroism to give your children
out for the glorious of the Country! For your own country,
personal
sacrifice really is worth it.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:39:28
EDT
From: ***@JUNO.COM
Subject:
Last night's final!
Hey, did you see last night's final gym show on nbc?
It was GREAT! Gymnastics from all
over the world gathering togehter,
dancing, jumping, laughing, showing off their own muscles,
etc. That is
what Olympic should like! Everyone is
smiling, applausing! And those
gymnastics
got together showing off!
That russian guy is really good-looking, and of course, my
fellow
country man -- Li Xiao Shuang
is also very good! Those russians
are so
energntic,
especially that Alexei someone who took off his top and showed
off. :*P Probably Hollywood
producers are already contacting him for
future
movies. Oh, the american
girls dancing with the music of YMCA,
etc.
What about last time's
Olympic? I don't remember seeing anything like
that?
Who can tell me? That is what Olympic should be!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:10:03 +0000
From: ***@ATLAS.CO.UK
Subject:
Begging letter...
Are there any British Gymners
out there who videoed the Gala last night and
would
be able to do me a copy ?? My video
went on the blink (or maybe it
was human error
!?!) and I'm desperate ! I would be eternally grateful.
Claire
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:15:07
-0300
From: ***@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject:
Re: New Elements at Olympics?
One that I know of is a move on the P
Bars done by Alan Nolet of Canada.
He did it
during Optionals in the Compulsory round and it got
named the
Nolet :)
--Lisa
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:26:00
EST
From: ***@MCIMAIL.COM
Subject:
International tape trades
There's already been lots of discussion
about trading tapes amongst US and
Canadian Olympics
coverage. I'm actually
looking to trade Olympics
tapes with someone in
the UK or elsewhere. I'm
particularly
interested in getting the BBC's
women's team optionals, AA, and gala
coverage, given the positive comments I've read on GYMN
about the
BBC's coverage in general. Other specifics I'm interested in seeing
is
the French team, Boginskaya,
and Chusovitina's FX which I've heard about. Of
course,
being in the US, I have the NBC coverage of the women's
events,
for what it's worth. I also have
numerous gymnastics
competitions on tape from the
past 15+ years.
To further simplify things, I have the ability to read
PAL and Seacam
tapes,
and to translate my NTSC tapes into PAL recordings. So, compatibility
is
not a problem.
If you're willing to participate in such a trade,
please e-mail me
directly at mperenson@mcimail.com.
Looking
forward to hearing from GYMN's international subscribers,
Melissa
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:37:12
+0600
From: ***@COGNOS.COM
Subject:
Re: Web Address
>I have found this Web Site useful
>
>http://results.atlanta.olympic.org/results>
>
>Don't
panic, you can find out the participants without having to look at
the results.
This is the same "official
website" that has Ghana as winning Men's
compulsories
-- still, 12 days after the competition.
Also, Canada's "The
Globe and Mail" newspaper reports last Friday,
"Results were flowing faster
yesterday, but the Info '96 database,
which is supposed to provide biographical
information to journalists
and others, was still shaky. Biographies of many famous
athletes,
including
U.S. long jumper Carl Lewis, were unavailable, and
information on
others was so poor as to call the whole system into
question. Lisa
Neuberger, a sailor who carried the flag for the
Virgin Islands at the opening
ceremonies, is listed as being 95
years old. Sule Olaleye of Nigeria is the 125th-ranked table-tennis
player in the
world. It is no wonder he is so unaccomplished--the
computer
insists he is only 17 centimetres tall."
And
we thought gymnasts were the smallest competitors at the Olympics...
%^)
And
perhaps we should introduce Lisa to that 97 year-old gymnast from
Slovenia,
Leon Stukel?
The site that I have gone to
for immediate results is under Toronto Sun
Publishing's http://www.canoe.ca/ Olympics pages.
Regards,
Grace
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:13:12
-0700
From: ***@GOODNET.COM
Subject:
Flashes- Apology?
Sorry if I got everyone soooo worked up over
this "keeping the eyes
closed"
thing. It was a joke intended to
make people laugh. Obviously,
some people haven't figured out how to take a joke. I guess the world is a
serious place all the time. (I feel sorry for these people).
Also, I'm an elite male gymnast, and although never attempted a
layout on beam, can tell you that gymnastics IS possible
keeping the eyes
closed. It's a wonderful thing called "AIR
SENSE" (maybe some of you more
experienced
gymnasts have heard of this)! I do
everything with my eyes
closed, from full-ins on
floor, to kovacs (cool name) on high bar! I
depend
solely on my air sense, and know when to open for the landing. I've
never
been hurt (as of yet) by this, and I simply open my eyes when it's
time to open for the landing. Yes, it's a bit more difficult, but
if
gymnastics wasn't a challenge, then everyone
would be doing it!
Anyone else on this list close their eyes?
kovacs
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:45:52
-0600
From: ***@COLORADO.EDU
Subject:
Re: GYMN-L Digest - 31 Jul 1996 - Special issue
Does anyone have a web
site or information that explains the changes to JO
levels
8, 9, and 10 for next year.
Thanks,
Dennis
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:54:05
-0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject:
Re: Gymnast comparisons.
I meant second Olympics. Sorry. Shaposhnikova was suppose to be th e
big USSR star in
1980. She was leading most of the way until her UB
optionals where she went to do a cast to handstand
giant down layout
flyway full (she was one the
first to do this dismount). She did the cast
but
was over alittle, and did a giant down to beat the
low bar, kipped
up and did a stradle
cut back off dismount. She got a 9.75. She had other
errors
after that and finished 4 AA I believe, just after the Nadia/
Gnuack tie for
the silver.
I gathered she was the 'STAR' who they were
counting on more from the
Eurosport video of the
meet that I saw than what I read. She was really
good
but she wasn't as clean as today's gymnasts. Shaposhnikova
had
alot of great
skills, but she wasn't Pod-like back then. She did win V,
and I think silver on BB and bronze on FX.
Jeff
Dina,
Dina, Dina.
P.S. This post was about the error I made when I
said:
Both Nelli Kim and Shannon Miller
were both overshadowed going into their
second worlds. I meant second Olympics. Opps.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 19:56:53
-0400
From: ***@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject:
Flashes, the crowd, other comments
I just got back from
Atlanta today and am sorting through my 800-plus
messages!
Anyway, here's what I thought and heard about two topics mentioned on
gymn - the flash photography and
the overly pro-American crowd.
I think it was VERY
likely Moceanu's fall on beam could have been
caused
by the camera flashes. *I* was blinded by
them during her tumbling pass, and I
was fairly
high up in the press seats near bars. It was irresponsible for the
meet organizers to allow flash cameras to be used, IMO. Only
AFTER Dom fell did
they make an announcement and
post a message about no flash photography. But it
was
too late for Moceanu then, and the crowd didn't
listen anyway. When Miller
went up, there were
flashes again - though, granted, not as many. At other
international
meets I've attended, meet organizers announced at the very
beginning that flash photography was not allowed and
actually confiscated
cameras from overzealous fans
who persisted in using flashes. Why this wasn't
done
in Atlanta I don't know.
Yesterday, before the
Gala, I was talking to some people and Dominique
herself
was standing a few feet away talking to Bart and Nadia. They were
discussing her fall on beam. I heard her say to Bart,
"All I could see was
light." Now, I'm
not sure if she was referring to the flashes or if she meant
something like she hit her head so hard that she saw stars.
But the word she
used was "light." She
did not sound bitter at all and was not complaining; she
sounded
sort of bewildered. I am personally not a big fan of Dominique's
gymnastics, but felt very bad for her when all those flashes
went off. It
seemed to me that they affected her
performance, and part of me felt that she
should
be allowed to do her routine over again. I remembered that back in 1991
(I
think), Trent Dimas was allowed to repeat his vault at USAs because he
said
camera flashes distracted him. In any case,
in Atlanta it seemed that
Dominique's fans with their flash cameras hurt
her far more than they helped
her. And as Joy
said, a flash camera is USELESS at a gymnastics meet anyway.
The crowd was, IMO,
very unfair and rude to the foreign athletes. A large
part
of this seems to be due to the fact that the vast majority didn't seem to
know anything about gymnastics. Even a lot of the media were
surprisingly
ignorant. Some did not even know what
a double layout on floor was! But
fortunately for
the gymnasts, the media are not allowed to cheer or make noise
during the meet. The crowd, on the other hand, was extremely
loud, but only for
one team. I understand that
people want to be patriotic, but there is a point
where
it crosses over into disrespect for non-Americans, and that is what I
witnessed. At the team press conference, the Russian and
Romanian girls
stated that the crowd was so loud
that they couldn't hear their floor music and
it
was VERY difficult to perform under those circumstances. The girls did not
seem bitter, just sad and confused. Podkopayeva
also said that she could not
hear her music and
was near tears after her routine. She, the Russians and
Romanians all
expressed sadness and a bit of frustration over what seemed to
them to be a complete lack of appreciation for their
efforts. All these girls
are used to competing in
Europe in front of crowds who know gymnastics and
support
good routines, regardless of where the athlete is from. They didn't
know what to make of the American crowd, and most ended up
with their feelings
badly hurt. Again, I did not
detect any anger or bitterness from Lilia, the
Romanians or the Russians.
They basically seemed sad. They had wanted to
perform
for the crowd, to entertain them, and the crowd pretty much ignored
them - often in favor of an American who was just standing
on the podium
waiting to perform. The foreign
athletes I spoke to said they felt "unaccepted"
and could not understand what they had done
"wrong." I think things would have
been
a lot different had more people in the crowd been TRUE gymnastics fans and
known what they were seeing. Unfortunately, the majority
seemed rather
clueless... That this should happen
at the Olympics is heartbreaking, at least
to me,
because I know that a lot of the foreigners will be going home with bad
memories of what should have been the highlight of their
careers. It seemed to
me that the only foreign
athletes the crowd REALLY warmed up to were Aleksei
Nemov and Lilia Podkopayeva, but only AFTER she won AA. Nemov won over the
crowd with
his demeanor and good nature, by smiling and waving. But I'm not
sure the spectators *truly* appreciated his gymnastics. Li Xiaoshuang got very
little
crowd support (actually, the entire Chinese team got very little
support, men and women. Mo Huilan,
usually a crowd favorite, was pretty much
overlooked...
The same fate befell the Russian girls).
I don't know if this
was mentioned already on Gymn but there was an
overzealous patriot in the Georgia Dome who was NOT an
American. It was none
other than Lyudmila Turishcheva, who was supposed to be judging floor. But
more
often than not she wasn't even watching the
floor routines, she was watching
the Ukrainian
girls on whatever event they were on. I had never seen anything
like it before! When Mirgorodskaya
was on bars, Turishcheva's head was turned
toward that apparatus and was actually bobbing up and down
in sync with Anna's
giant swings. I think Turishcheva's behavior was captured on film. In any
case,
she was given a warning...
Beth
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:32:30
-0700
From: ***@GLADSTONE.UOREGON.EDU
Subject:
College Eligibility and making money...
Some people seem to think it
is sad that Kerri has decided to give up her
NCAA eligibility.
I
think it is a good idea and I think all Olympic gymnasts who win should
do this.
I know this sounds bad so please hear me
out before flaming me.
Just competiting in
the Olympics is a great thing and it is worth all of
those
years of practice. But there is
something to be said for making
money off of it
too.
It sounds so shallow and I hate to sound that way. I am not suggesting
that money is everything. But if you can make some off of your
sport
(and your many years of hard training and
giving up a normal teenage life)
why not do
it?
Competing at the college level is never going to bring you the
success
that competing in (and winning at) the
Olympics brings. Plus you can't
make
money
on a
college team. So what does it
really give you? After being on
an
Olympic team you have already reached the ceiling of gymnastics so
to
speak.
There is nothing else to really reach for so I say make money off
of all your years of hard work.
This is the same
theme that brings people to college.
You go for four
years (work hard
usually) to get a degree and make
money. So why not make
money off of your many years of gymnastics training? You can literally
make
100's of thousands off of gymnatsics if you win
(maybe even millions).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:47:01
-0500
From: ***@MAIL.COIN.MISSOURI.EDU
Subject:
The MAG-7's routine music
Hello, fellow Gymn'ers...
I just wanted to open by saying
that last night's Gala was really
great. I just
loved the final routine done by the MAG-7.
Enough of that...here is my
question: I know that the music they used
was
"Georgia on my Mind", "Y.M.C.A.", and "God Bless the
USA", in that
order. What I don't know is the
name of the third song they used. I know
it is in
Spanish, but the most that I got of a title was Margarena(?).
Can
anyone please tell me what the title of that third song was?
If anyone can help me on this, it
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
--Michael :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:20:20
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Re: Kerri bandwagon - not me!
>I was surprised that Chow didn't
tie
Khorkina, even though I felt Khorkina was underscored, but I was even more
surprised that Bi Wenjing got a
9.837! The girl almost overbalanced
on one
of her handstands!
Khorkina was *definitely* underscored, as was Kotchetkova. Amanar was a bit
overscored. Of the 3-way tie for 5th: Amanar, Pod
and Dina) Dina was
clearly the best that night,
then Pod, then Amanar just ahead of Milo.
As
for Bi Wenjing, both she and Dawes nearly overcooked
a handstand, but my
concern is that she, along
with the other Chinese who perform the Gaylord
(Mo, Meng,
etc.) always seem to land with their shins hitting the
high bar,
yet no deduction is ever taken. I love Chinese UB (and wanted to
strangle
Liu Xuan for fluffing her compulsory),
but execution is important, and
shouldn't be
overlooked.
Mara
***Molodyets, Sveta!!!********
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:05:43
-0400
From: ***@HICOM.NET
Subject:
Re: Tour of World Gymn Champions//Info &
Questions
Howdy:
There have been a few posts asking about the
'Post Olympic Tour,' whose official
name is the
'John Hancock 1996 Tour of World Gymnastics Champions.' Here is all
the
info that was in a large ad (1/4 page) in our Sunday paper here in the New
Jersey/New York Metropolitan Area. This is for the performance
taking place at
the Meadowlands (oh yeah,
Continental Airlines Arena;) ) :
Gymnasts pictured individually:
Shannon
Miller
Dominique Moceanu
Dominique Dawes
John
Rothlisberger
Jaycie
Phelps
Kurt Thomas
Blaine Wilson
Kim Zmeskal
Then
it says "Also featuring: Kerri Strug, Amanda
Borden, Amy Chow and more!"
Here's a quote from the ad: "A
two-hour exhibition featuring the 1996 US Olympic
women's,
men's and rhythmic gymnastics teams!
Appearances by over 15 of the
world's best
international Olympic gymnasts."
Great seats at the Meadowlands
show on Oct. 11 are already gone (I know, I tried
for
'em).
Again, if anyone is going to that show, it
would be neat to hear from
you...
Now, a
few questions/comments:
1.
Observation: Every US
Artistic Gymn woman is named as appearing,
Olympic
Silver Medalist Jair Lynch is not listed
(ad came out before his victory)--any
bets that
this Tour operation will try to snag him, and the whole
Fifth-in-the-World
(!) men's team, for that matter??;
2. This ad came out *before* Strug renounced her NCAA eligibility--i.e.,
she
was already slated to appear in the
exhibition. Any
comments about this?
This exhibition takes place during the school
session--how could she agree to it
after having
committed to the UCLA Gymn team (same question for
Amy Chow/
Stanford Gymn team)--when do they start
practices, and will the tour be over by
then?
3.
How will jr./high
school students like Jaycie and Dominique M., and
college
students like the other 5 women maintain
classwork while on tour--or are the
jr./HS
students doing the 'tutor' thing, while the college women defer *another*
year?
I think it was Kris B. who posted the
schedule of all the cities this tour will
be visiting--are Mihai or any
other notable men going? And could
you possibly
repost the cities/dates the tour will
visit (I know you've been busy the past
week or
so;)
Thanks all,
Michele
in Joisey
PS--Let's hope Pauletta
Huntzkova shows up, too;)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 20:17:42
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
U.S. Olympic Coverage
I am looking for ANY U.S. Gymnastics Olympic
Coverage on tape, except for the
Individual AA. Will pay postage and any other
causes. Please resond
with
private E-mail.
Thanx
for your time,
James
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 20:01:54
-0500
From: ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject:
Odd One Out
There seems to be questions about which of the mag 7 is
not going on
tour. My guess would be Amy CHow for the following reasons:
1. Since it's been
anounced she will be going to Stanford to compete
it
probably would have announced had her mind been
chanced whereas Jaycie's
future
has never been mentioned.
2. Since Amy is the only one from her gymn on the tem and Jaycie
has
Amanda there as well Amy might feel less preasure
or motivation to do
what others are doing.
3.
Amy went to a college prep private school.
I was in a similar school
in high school
and EVERYONE goes to college. Not
going was basically not
an option. When your entire high school class is
going off to college
you might be more likely to
follow because it's what you've thought you
were
going to do since the first day you set foot in the school.
Also they
keep on mentioning Dawes will go to Stanford in the fall, but
she seems to have been planning to go one tour since before
the Olympics
ever happened. Is she planning on starting a quarter
late or putting it
off for another year or
what?
------------------------------
End of GYMN-L Digest -
31 Jul 1996 - Special issue
**************************************************