GYMN-L Digest - 30 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 18 messages totalling 609 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. Artists profiles
2. Shannon Miller
3. Olympics--rules question (2)
4. Where was men's vault and hi-bar on NBC?
5. Olympics In General
6. Poser program
7. Gym Princesses and sportsmanship
8. Someone else who was actually there...
9. Where was Shabaev?
10. Moceanu blinded on beam?
11. sorry, but not everybody here is American (2)
12. magazines
13. Different things
14. Exhibition
15. stuff
16. Who I Am and Other Observations

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 18:43:13 +0200
From: ***@XS4ALL.NL
Subject: Artists profiles

Yes, it was hard to understand what the speaker was saying, but by watching
the broadcasts from different countries where commenators keep silent
sometimes, I have been able to discern that:

Amy Chow would like to become a paediatrician,
Dominique Dawes will go to Stanford university to become an actress or FBI
agent (giggles from the crowd),
Lylia Podkopayeva would like to go to Law school, smart little lady...(this
struck me as being odd compared to the other Europeans, see below),
The Romanian girls and most of the Russians would like to stay in business
as coach, choreographer, sports physician etc.
Svetlana Chorkina would like to become a professional model...Whow, she
already is very beautifull in her own right.

The men enjoyed mainly things like rock music, motorcycles, soccer and
fishing. Some however liked computer games or stamp collecting (the Chinese)
or even enjoyed taking naps (the Frech guy on pommel horse)

Any others...

The wishes of especially the Deva Darts (I mean the Romanians) spring a
question to my mind about their academic level. When you practice perhaps 40
hours a week for your entire childhood and adolescence there seems to be
little time left over to get some formal education.
Is there anyone who can shed some light on this, as I wouldn't want to see
them retire from elite level without any chance of getting a job because of
their academic level.

Edwin

If you find this message long-winded or beside the point please inform me so
by private email. Don't flame me, I am only human.

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:07:38 -0400
From: ***@FLX.COM
Subject: Shannon Miller

After vault finals, I could not bring myself to watch Shannon on beam,
because I wanted so much for her to win. I actually closed my eyes while
she was on, and when I didn't hear the crowd noise that accompanies a
fall, I knew she had done well.
Did anyone notice how her attitude before her beam routine was different
than how she acted before vault and AA? Then, she looked depressed,
nervous, generally "down." Last night, while she waited her turn on
beam, she looked cooler and more collected. A definite change in
attitude. I was ecstatic for her. America is so harsh on its Olympic
athletes. If she hadn't won gold, that's all the media would have
harped upon.

BTW, did anyone hear Steve Nunno's comment to Shannon after she knew she
had won? "Good things happen to good people!" He is so right.

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:46:32 +0000
From: ***@IGC.APC.ORG
Subject: Olympics--rules question

ARMCHAIR RULES EXPERTS: Under what rules
are coaches allowed to "substitute" gymnasts who qualify
for the AA and/or EF with other gymnasts? I thought they at
least had to lie and say it was due to injury (the Roza story of 92
certainly suggests this), but I heard no such excuses for the
Amanar/Marinescu swap in the AA. And I may be wrong but
it sounded like there was another Marinescu swap in beam
EF.

I have assumed that the rule in EF is that if a coach pulls
a gymnast, the vacant spot goes to the next eligible qualifier,
who may or may not be a member of the same team (thus limiting
the occasions on which a coach can pull this maneuver, since
the next person may not always be from the same team). True?

***

Public confession: feeling humbled for the way I have always dissed
Milo. While I still am uninspired by her compositions, I agree with
Connie that she was a class act in her engagement with fellow
competitors.

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 12:12:28 -0600
From: ***@SUPERNET.AB.CA
Subject: Re: Where was men's vault and hi-bar on NBC?

>What the heck happened on NBC tonight? Where was the men's vault and hi-bar
>competition?
>
I missed vault too, so I taped CBC for high bar and p bars. But I taped the
rest NBC amazing that I did that huh?

Going back and forth from one station to another.

Kel

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 12:15:47 -0600
From: ***@SUPERNET.AB.CA
Subject: Olympics In General

Well, just wanted to say that these were a great olympics for gymnastics. I
enjoyed watching all the gym. I'm glad Shannon finally got that gold on
beam! I'm happy Amanar did so well, and of course Pod!

I think it is sad that it is all over though. I wonder what is up for the
Exhib tonight! I wonder is Kerri will come out.

I saw the Vaulting for men, on CBC, but didn't tape it. I think the gold
medalist deserved to win, and like someone else said Sherbo did land in the
no deduction area so he didn't get those bonus points.

Glad that Milo was so friendly.

DOES ANYONE know who is retiring now?????? I would love to know. Like is
Miller, Dawes, Bordon, Pod, bogi, Milo, Chus????

Kel

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:30:57 -0400
From: ***@GNN.COM
Subject: Re: Olympics--rules question

> I thought they at
>least had to lie and say it was due to injury (the Roza story of 92
>certainly suggests this), but I heard no such excuses for the
>Amanar/Marinescu swap in the AA. And I may be wrong but
>it sounded like there was another Marinescu swap in beam
>EF.
>

Do you think Belu told Marinescu he would pull her from AA, but as a
consolation prize he would put her in beam finals?

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:34:00 EST
From: ***@MCIMAIL.COM
Subject: Re: Poser program

Yes, I have used (and reviewed, for that matter) Fractal Design's
Poser software. And I have to say it is an incredible tool for
creating images of the human body contorted and posed into any
direction imaginable. I have used the program repeatedly for fun to
create gymnasts in mid-air leaps, back handsprings, and what not. The
program does not require any complex knowledge of graphics software to
use; all you do is grab a body part, select the kind of movement you
want, and drag in that direction accordingly. One nice thing is that
there are male and female child, young adult, and adult-sized bodies
to choose from, and from there you can even select whether you want
the body to be underweight by 10 or 20 pounds. The only thing about
the Poser is that the images you create are just that; although you
clearly working with the human shape, you can't really do the human
shape with realistically-rendered characteristics (ie. facial detail,
leotards, etc.). There _might_ be a way to overlay bitmaps, but I'll
have to go home and consult the manual, but if my memory serves me
correctly, I believe you can't do that in Poser. I think that requires
some serious familiarity with other, more complex image editors.
Still, I highly recommend this if you're looking to create silhouettes
and demonstrative diagrams. If anyone has any further questions, just
drop me an e-mail and I'll be glad to answer them (now that my system
at work is up and running again!).

Melissa

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:39:33 -0400
From: ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: Gym Princesses and sportsmanship

>This isn't a flame...more like a question that arose out of a post I
>don't know to agree with or not (though I lean heavily towards not
>agreeing!) but I watched the brodcasts just like others, and say during
>the uneven bars event final Milo and Anamar congratualted each other, and
>Pods and Dina K and Khorkina did, and Amy and Dawes did. What do these
>grouping have in common? Besides being from the same countries...The same
>language! Perahps that has something to do with it? i don't know, guess
>you'd have to ask someone who has competed internationally and been in
>that laguage barrier spot...
> Lisa
>
>
I don't know if they showed it on NBC but after the FX final Dina K and
Mo Huilan congratulated each other with the kiss on both cheeks that
is part of the European culture, not the Chinese culture. That
gesture really broke the language barrier. Also Lavinia's congratulations
for Lilya in the AA - they don't speak the same language either. I agree
with what someone else said (sorry, don't remember who) that the
non-US women are "against" the US women, mainly because of the
American fans.

In defense of some of the American girls - some people just aren't the
type of person who feels comfortable congratulating strangers who don't
speak the same language as they do. Shannon, for example, doesn't
seem to be comfortable hugging anybody, even her coach. Some
people just aren't the "Huggy" type.

- Megan

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:02:07 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Someone else who was actually there...

Hi everyone,
I got back from Atlanta Thursday night, but it took me a while to post,
mostly because other people have written much of what I wanted to say. (It's
also taken me a while to read the over three hundred messages I had waiting
for me when I got back.)

Just about everything about the city itself has been very eloquently
described by Ron Du Pont, so much that I got sad reading them because I wish
I was still there. It was miles and miles of block parties- really good ones.
It was commercial, everyone was basically selling the same thing, but I loved
it- the atmosphere was great. Being from New York, I still can't get over how
nice and how friendly everyone was, and from what I hear, it wasn't just for
the Olympics. I'm a hick from the East End of Long Island, but I felt like a
hardened New Yorker, feeling wierd when someone bumped into me on a bus and
touched my arm and apologized. Or when I went to the Superstore and was
surrounded by cheery people who were waiting on the line that was a mile
long, just to be helped by the cashiers who I know have been working all day
and still gave me a smile and asked how I was enjoying everything. I think I
had a smile on my face the whole time- who could help it? Everyone did. And
Centennial Park- I left the night before the bomb went off, and it was the
saddest thing when I found out. I cried, not because of being scared or
freaked out that I was just there, but for all of the people who were there
that felt as safe as I did there, and because besides the gymnastics, the
park was my best memory of the trip. Again, it was very commercial, but it
was so much fun, and there was such a feeling of Olympic spirit and
friendliness among everyone. The first thing I think of is the thousands of
people every night that gathered around the AT&T Global Olympic Village to
watch NBC's broadcast on this huge screen, cheering during a swimming race or
a good routine (I watched the mens all around there.) I think that this is
the main reason why I was crying when I heard about the bomb, since it went
off right around there. Who would disagree with what was going on and set out
to destroy it?

Now, the gymnastics. I saw the men and women's team competition, from way up
at the top both times. I was a little upset at all of the mean posts about
the crowd, because I was part of that crowd, but I realized after watching it
on TV that it sounded worse than it actually was. The men's crowd was more
appreciative of everyone's routines, and I was surprised when I saw the
broadcast with John Rothlesberger crying, because the guys seemed to be happy
with their performance. As for the women, there were a lot of people there
who were not really gymnastics fans. The people next to us got free tickets
from work, and my mother kept feeling the need to get me to answer their
questions, usually in the middle of a good routine. I totally planned on
watching everyone's rountines, but it was hard not to watch the Americans.
Everyone else was, (mostly because they didn't know who to watch from the
other teams) and because they were GOOD. Tiny mistakes from the other teams
looked big compared to the bars and beam from the USA. And something happened
to me when I realized I was witnessing a meet where my country was hitting
and not being overscored and winning fairly. I got patriotic. I still watched
and cheered for Pods, Milo, Dina, Svetlana, etc but I couldn't help but cheer
louder for Kerri's floor routine, for example. But I even had an eye on
Dina's floor routine while my favorite gymnast ( since 1991, not since
Tuesday) was being carried off the floor. That was really the only time when
the crowd completely ignored everyone else. They appreciated the other good
routines, but you really couldn't hear that at all on TV. I guess because the
place was so big. So although the crowd was annoying to even be in at times,
they weren't as one-sided, or as mean as everyone is making them seem.

Sorry this is so long, I didn't mean for it to be. I hope I didn't repeat too
much of what others have said. Any questions or comments are definitely
welcome- the Olympics is my favorite topic of conversation lately! By the
way, did any LIers get tickets for the tour when they come to Nassau
Colessium Oct. 5th? I got second row on the floor! Quite a change from my
Olympic tickets.....

~Ellen

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:07:14 -0500
From: ***@SHOWME.MISSOURI.EDU
Subject: Where was Shabaev?

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know where Evgeni Shabaev ('95
World AA bronze medalist) was during the Olympics? Was he on the Russian
team, and just didn't make finals? What's up?

Olin

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:07:13 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Moceanu blinded on beam?

Did she ever say that the flashes caused her to be blinded? There were
alot of flashes during that sequence and that could have done it. I doubt she
would have missed that series by accident. If it was the flashes, my question is
why did the event organizers allow these cameras into the arena? She could
have been serious;y hurt. That fall looked as bad as Gogeans.



Jeff

Dina, Dina, Dina.

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:29:06 -0400
From: ***@KENT.NET
Subject: sorry, but not everybody here is American

I don't mean to sound to irate here, but if I do please forgive me. I
don't mean to play list police-person but the content of many of these
messages over the past few days have really annoyed me.

It seems to me that some people don't understand that this isn't a forum
for American citizens/fans only. There is a 50 message per day limit
that doesn't need to be wasted with congratulations for the US teams/
individuals.

It also seems to me that some people aren't interested in gymnasts
who aren't American. I mean, the rest of us don't want to read ten different
postings analaysing only the American performances and raving about
how wonderful they are.

Don't get me wrong here, it's not that we don't appreciate them too - I know
that I was very impressed with the Amercan girls - but also with the Romanians,
Lilya, Mo, Nemov, Sherbo, Dounev, Sharipov, everybody! They aren't the only
peole on the floor.

examples:

KERRI STRUG - Courage Under Fire
>
>
>THE ATLANTA ANGELS
>
>THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN
>
>THE DREAM TEENS
>
>Whatever you want to call them, they are CHAMPIONS!!!!!
>
(and the following long discussion about stuff that had already been discussed)

> There are so many wonderful gymnasts out there!
> Especially USA! Go MAG7! I also have to disagree when people have
> been saying that our girls have no comaraderie or sportsmanship!
^^^^^

>And again I would like to remind everyone out there that the United States
>Men placed higher than the United States Women in the all around. i am not
>repeating that to put the women down, I am saying it to bring the men up.
>

>YES! I was *so* psyched to see Shannon and Dominique
>do so well last night!

>Again, congrats to Shannon (I knew she could--flawless!!!!), Dom D (she was
>actually 'selling' that routine!)., Amy (I can't spell it, but can you say,
>'Stalder?'), and Jair (despite yucky rip, great set, planted his dismount
>cold!)!
>

>Way to go, Shannon. You did well.
>
And these aren't the only ones.

I wouldn't mind reading some of these if they were accompanied by
congratulations and cheers for other gymnasts but in most cases they're
not. If you've got something new to say or point out, go ahead and say it, but
some of these posts are very pointless. If you want to congratulate a
gymnast - write him/her some fan mail.

Now, I know that a lot of you may disagree with what I've said here, but
it's MY OPINION. Take it as that. I understand that you know more about
the US team and therfore that's what you talk about, but please give a
a thought to the people who are reading your mail. If you feel that it's
absolutely necessary to flame me then go right on ahead. To those of
you Canadians, Australians and others out there - let me know if you agree!

- Megan

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 17:13:29 -0400
From: ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: magazines

I haven't got my SI yet, but in Newsweek is an article (5 pages total, of
which 2 are color pictures of kerri) about team gold for US women. In
People is a two page article on kerri. I haven't seen anything else yet.

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:20:43 -0700
From: ***@EARTHLINK.NET
Subject: Different things

Dominique Moceanou
I cannot believe how bad Dominique Moceanou did considering that she was
supposed to be the next Mary Lou. She got all the hype and didn't do that
great. Kerri Strug, Dominique Dawes, Shannon Miller.... are so much better
than her. it is true that she is a good gymnast, but not good enough to be
an olympic champion like people said.

Upcoming Stars
Since all of the United States gymnasts are supposedly retiring after the
Olympics (is this true?), who do you think are going to be the upcoming
stars?

Yay!
I am glad Shannon Miller won beam so she could end her last gymnastics
routine as the best in the world. I am also glad that Dominique Dawes
medaled. It seems like she works so hard and comes so close to world
champion or something else really good like that, but she never gets it.
She deserved her medal.

Sad but Happy
I wish Vitaly Scherbo would have gotten a gold, but I am happy that Li
Xiaxiang (Shwashwan, I don't know how to spell it) took the gold in
All-around.

Bye for now!!!!!!
Michelle

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:27:48 -0500
From: ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: Exhibition

>Can't wait for the exhibition tonight. One thing I remembered
>from (maybe it was the tour?) four years ago was having two
>gymnasts mirror each other by doing their compulsory FX
>from opposite ends of the floor. Now that would be cool!

My rhythmic gymnastics club used to do this for the end of year
exhibition. Since level one all competed the exact same routines (rope
and free), and level two had two of their three routines be the same
(free and clubs) my coach would have one or two girls perform at the same
time often starting back to back or something like that. It was a very
neat effect.

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 17:10:21 -0500
From: ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: stuff

Okay I think I heard the worst version of Kerri Strug ever! On the today
show today Andrew Young was interviewed on the today show about the
bomb. He said he didn't think the gamess would be remembered for the
bomb but for the Kathy Shrugs. If you are going to use her as this
figure for campaigns, ect please learn her name.

For those of you wishing to go to the gymnastics tour the best place to
find out when and where the show will be going check out the tickmaster
web page at http://www.tickmaster.com You can't order tickets over the
net, but you can look up your city and see when it's coming.

Also an idea. If your trying to get tickets for just a few people you
might be better off waiting until closer to the day the tour comes to
town. Many people on the skating list have found that calling up a day
before or even on the day can land you an ice seat a shows like stars on
ice. Normally the best seats are held four corporate sponsors, ect but
then released later it they're not all used. If you only have a choice
of bad seats now then waiting will probably get you better seats or if
not you won't be that much worse off.

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 17:09:28 -0500
From: ***@MARLIN.UTMB.EDU
Subject: Re: sorry, but not everybody here is American

Megan:

I understand your frustration re: the postings from US citizens
expressing their happiness about the US gold medal -- I've felt the same
frustration all year long as I watched people post to say that the US
team didn't have a chance at gold. Furthermore, anybody saying they did
would be out of his/her mind.

I don't think it's a case of people discounting the other gymnasts. We
all *knew* that Lilia (sp?) had a very strong chance at the all-around.
We already knew that Khorkina would present innovative, beautiful
routines. What we *didn't* know for sure is that the US would pull
together and finally get the recognition that they deserve.

It's kind of like a starving man and food -- we Americans have been
waiting to eat for a long time. Excuse us if our table manners aren't
quite what they should be right now. They'll get better as we get more
practice at eating.

Joel

Shannon, Kerri, Shannon, Kerri, Shannon, Kerri!

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Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:33:47 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Who I Am and Other Observations

Hey! I've been waiting for the mailing list to kind of calm down after USA's
gold medal before I posted. My (nick) name is J.J. and I'm from Alabama. I am
the most "unflexible" person, and always have been, so I'm *definitely* not a
gymnast, but I _love_ to watch gymnastics. I'm from the USA, so of course I
love their team, but I love some of the other gymnasts, too. (BTW, I'm
talking about women's gymnastics. I'm not really into the men's, although I
think their strength is incredible!)
Some quick little thoughts. NBC's coverage... old subject, I know, but since
most of us USA people will have to deal with the coverage for the next 4 (not
sure about number, I knew it but forgot it [how typical of me]) Olympic
games, let's hope for improvement. The stories are a little too mushy for me
(what story was it the other day where they kept flashing back to the hills
and mountains and rivers, oh please!). Some are interesting, but I could do
without the excessive closeups. And I have to say something about that
Amazing Grace ending. That was the stupidest thing I have ever seen. I
thought the song "Amazing Grace" was about the grace of God, not of gymnasts.
And to show all of the mistakes during that song. It disgusted me. John Tesh
seems to make frequent little errors and mistakes that get me confused. You
have to admit that he does provide non-gymnastics oriented viewers with a
non-technical approach, so that's good. And you know how America is with
entertainment personalities.
CONGRATS TO MILLER ON THE BEAM!!! I thought it was awesome that, on her last
event at the Olympics, she got that gold. I beg for forgiveness, but I wanted
for her to win so bad that I was happy when the last person that went fell
off the beam. That is horrible, horrible, horrible, I know, but I couldn't
help it. After all the years of hard work, she deserved it!
What is the best gymnastics mag to subscribe to and what is their phone #?
One that is aimed towards VIEWERS, not real gymnasts.
I am thinking very seriously about making a Gymnastics web page focused on
select gymnasts, most from the USA. I need some inspiration, so any e-mail
(Braves1000@aol.com is the person to write to) would be appreciated. If I get
it up, I'll let you people know. Also, if you have any pics or great info on
the Mag 7, let me know for use on the web page. (No copyrighted material,
please!)

That's all for now, congrats to the USA!
J.J.

<<<<<<<<GO OLYMPIC TEAM USA>>>>>>>>>>>>>
////////////////GYMNASTICS\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
((((((((((((((((ATLANTA BRAVES BASEBALL))))))))))))))))))

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 30 Jul 1996 - Special issue
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