GYMN-L Digest - 24 Oct 1995 to 25 Oct 1995 - Special
issue
There are 18 messages totalling 509
lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Elfi
Schlegel (3)
2. Questions
(2)
3. FIG Code
4. More Elfi
5. Canadian Women (not Schelgel)
6. Joanna Bodak
(rythmic gym) and eating disorder
7. A letter I think you should read.
-Reply
8. What happened to monica! (2)
9. EURATHLON
10. Atlanta Pre-Olympics (from USA
Today)
11. Eating
disorders... my 2 cents...
12. Nude Gymnastics comp!!
13. Commentators, in general
14. TV Commentators
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 01:29:13
-0400
From: ***@CAPITALNET.COM
Subject:
Elfi Schlegel
Michele wrote:
>Per your
question about Elfie Schlagel, yes, she was a gymnast
for Canada.
> Maybe some of our Canadian subscribers could supply more
info about her, but
>I have a tape of the 1986 NCAA Women's Nationals,
and I believe Elfie was a
>medalist on bars
(yes, she went to college in the USA--I don't remember
>where, and the tape is in the annals of VCR junk...)(Utah
won the team comp
>that year, BTW). I share your disbelief with her
remarks. I guess her momma
>never taught her that if she didn't have anything nice to say
she shouldn't
>say anything at all.:)
Elfi Schlegel is from Etobicoke,
Ontario. She has two sisters and
parents
of German heritage. She trained at Xoces
Eagles School of Gymnastics (now
"rolled
into" Gymnastics Mississauga) and was coached by Geoff and Mary Lea
Palmer. The Palmers also coached Janine Rankin.
Her first National and
Commonwealth Games championship victories came in
1978. She also won a
bronze medal on vault at the 1980 World Cup. These successes were all in
Canada,
of course, but she also had a wealth of international experience.
She would
have captained the Canadian team for the 1980 Olympics which we
boycotted. She
also put in a good effort but was unsuccessful in making
the
1984 team.
She went to university in Florida where she studied
broadcasting. Since
her successful NCAA career, most Canadian gymnasts have
followed her lead
to U.S. schools. She has been and remains one of Canada's
few role models
in gymnastics.
She is 31
years old, single, and currently works for NBC. In recent years,
she has been seen commentating on gymnastics for CBC, TSN,
and NBC. She
will
be covering the Breeders Cup (horse racing or equestrian?) and of
course, gymnastics at the '96 Olympics for NBC.
There
is a tribute to her in the February 1995 issue of Ontario Gymnast.
I'll
have to get permission from OGF to reprint it.
Regards,
Grace
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 11:16:10
+0200
From: ***@INFOCOM.KIEV.UA
Subject:
Re: Questions
>
>1) When some people talk of a backhandspring am I to take it
they mean a back
> flip?
>
>Sarah:)
>
Yes,
a backhandspring is the American term for the Brittish
back flip.
And
the American back flip, is the Brittish back sumi (SP?).
jason
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:20:01
GMT
From: ***@ACHILLES.DEMON.CO.UK
Subject:
Elfi Schlegel
> Per your question about
Elfie Schlagel, yes, she was a gymnast for
Canada.
> Maybe some of our
Canadian subscribers could supply more info about her,
Not Canadian,
I'm afraid, but I'll give it a go.
First up, her name's spelt the way
I've got it in the "Subject" line. Elfi
without an "e" and Schlegel with two of them (just
like the Schlegel sisters
in E.M. Forster's
"Howard's End": there! I knew A-level English Literature
would come in handy somewhen!).
It
so happens she won one of the first gymnastics competitions I ever saw:
something called the "Hunt" International at Wembley Arena in London in '81.
It was Canada/UK womens and USSR/UK mens...UK lost
both, natch!
Elfi
was AA champion at the Commonwealth Games in '78 and medalled (bronze?
vault?) at a World Cup in her
native Toronto ('80?). Her club was something
called
the Xoces-Eagles, which is certainly one of the
stranger ones I've
heard. (Does it still exist?
Anyone?) At least it's a change from the
250 Dynamos, I suppose.
>
I have a tape of the 1986 NCAA Women's Nationals, and I believe Elfie was
a
> medalist on bars
I think that was
always her best event.
> (yes, she went to
college in the USA--I don't remember
> where,
Florida, according to GYMN's records.
> I share
your disbelief with her remarks. I
guess her momma
> never taught her that if she
didn't have anything nice to say she shouldn't
> say
anything at all.:)
This isn't the first time her commentating's been
attacked on GYMN. It
surprised me before and it
surprises me now. Having heard & seen a fair bit
of
US-originated coverage, I'd rate her the best not the worst. She *knows*
what she's talking about, she avoids hyperbole and her
criticisms always
contain a
"because".
Good commentating - at least in my book -
involves shutting up and letting
the pictures
speak for themselves *until you have useful information to add*.
Too much
of what we get to hear is repetition of what's obvious - yes, we
can see she's just mounted the beam; yes, we've grasped it's
four inches
wide - or baseless, unreasoned
cheerleading/abuse. Elfi is a lot less prone
to this than most.
Face it. Scoring in gymnastics
is at least as much a process of being
marked down
for mistakes/omissions of content/weaknesses of form as upwards
for the quality of content. Someone listening to Elfi will at least emerge
with
some idea what these were and why the final score was as it was. This
aids understanding of gymnastics. Showering praise right, left and centre
doesn't.
--
Frances
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:19:11
-0400
From: ***@EAGLE.LHUP.EDU
Subject:
Re: FIG Code
Jennifer:
Most coaches and all optionally rated
judges have a copy of the code of
points. It is the bible of gymnastics. You may obtain a copy from the
USAG
office. Remember, there are updates
annually and changes for the
USAG Junior Olympic Program.
I hope
this answers your question.
Julie
> Date sent: 24-OCT-1995 16:31:34
>
>
Anyhow, I mentioned the idea of posting the partial code I have
> to see if it would be of help. Someone informed me this
afternoon
> that some on the list have a full
code. Anyway that can be put on the
> GYMN homepage? I would like to see
the whole thing, though I don't
> know how much
work it would entail.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 08:27:44
-0400
From: ***@YALE.EDU
Subject:
More Elfi
This is a vague and distant memory
for me, but unless I'm really making
something up,
I saw Elfi compete at Pan Am Games in San Juan in
1979. I
seem
to remember that she was quite the darling of the Games and
contributed to a boom in gymnastics in Puerto Rico for the
next few years.
:)
Adriana
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 07:58:43
-0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject:
Canadian Women (not Schelgel)
Date
sent: 25-OCT-1995 07:55:55
All
the talk on Elfi has made me curious. Back in 1978,
Lyn Moran
published a book called "The Young
Gymnasts." She focused basically
on four
athletes in the Canadian section. Karen Kelsall, Elfi,
Monica Goeremann (sp) and Sherry Hawco. Although I
know about Elfi
anf Hawco (who died of
cancer a few years back), I'm curious to
know
about Kelsall and Goeremann.
I know Goeremann won the 1979
Pan Ams all-around, and Kelsall
always managed to catch the cameras
with that
spectacular scale of hers. :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:22:48
EDT
From: ***@BIOMED.QUEENSU.CA
Subject:
Joanna Bodak (rythmic gym)
and eating disorder
I have noticed an interest about rythmic gymnastics in the mailing list
recently.
Is anybody interested in hearing about Joanna Bodak, Polish rythmic
gymnast
who placed 8th (or was it 7th) in
Barcelona? I taught in Poland for 1
1/2
year and became great friends with her (I was
her English teacher for one).
If anybody is interested, please let me know
and I'll write something about her.
About eating disorder;
I think
that eating disorder is a serious problem and it is more present in
a sport where young girls perform in thight
fitting clothing such as figure
skating and
gymnastics. This does not mean that
gymnastics is a "bad"
sport, and there
is no need to be defensive about it.
Why don't we
recognize the problem and deal
with it instead of trying to pretend that it
doesn't
exist. And yes, other sports have
that problem too but that does
not make it OK;
eating disorder is still medically and psychologically
destroying
for a young girl (and for anybody else for that matter, but it's
worse for a female teenager) and the self estime of these young athletes is
not
worth sacrifying in order to defend gymnastics. Gymnastics is a
wonderful
sport teaching self-discipline, hard work, friendship, and other
beautiful character builder but it isn't perfect. So let's get our head out
of the sand and fix the problem!
Anne
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 09:23:47
-0400
From: ***@MOOSE.UVM.EDU
Subject:
Re: Elfi Schlegel
About Elfi
Schlegel's commentating.....I personally do not like
that way
that she commentates. She seems to always
focus on the bad things. It's
always a bobble here
a balance check there or she or he does this
different.
She talks all the way through the routines. Yes, I do think
that a little commentary is good during the routine, but she
doesn't have
to comment on each step that the
gymnast makes. Let us just enjoy the
routine while
it's happening and when it's over then she can comment on
it. It also just seems that she never has anything nice to
say about the
routines.
Jennifer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:38:46
-0400
From: ***@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU
Subject:
Re: A letter I think you should read. -Reply
Kelly points out that the
eating disorders problem isn't
just in gymnastics,
and I agree thoroughly. However,if
the
numbers of people with eating disorders is higher in
gymnastics
than in the population at large (of similar aged
girls),
than gymnasts, coaches, and fans should be trying to
fix
the problems that lead to those higher percentages. I agree
that
cheerleaders and wrestlers and models often have eating
disorders,
but as an ex-gymnast, ex-coach, can current fan, I'm
better
able to work on the problems in gymnastics than in other
sports
or professions.
Ilene
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:49:19
-0400
From: ***@MUSS.CIS.MCMASTER.CA
Subject:
Re: Questions
> >Sarah:)
> >
>
> Yes, a backhandspring is the American term for the Brittish
> back flip.
>
And the American back flip, is the Brittish back sumi (SP?).
Up here in the great white north, it's
the back tuck, or in layout, the
back
layout.....
Or maybe that was just my messed up region...
Sam>
>
jason
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:52:28
-0400
From: ***@MUSS.CIS.MCMASTER.CA
Subject:
What happened to monica!
Does
anyone know what ever happened to Monica Covacci (sp)
I think she was junior national champ in my
day...
She's canadian,
so all you canadian fanatics, if you could help, I'd
sure
appreciate it!
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 17:58:33
-0700
From: ***@MX.SARENET.ES
Subject:
EURATHLON
This a message sended
for Luis Sanzo (Vitoria-Spain).
In 1995, the European Union initiated for
the first time the
EURATHLON Programme
with 700.000 Ecus. The object of
the
Programme was to
promote sporting formation
and sporting
activities
in the european
context with participation of
institutions -public or
private- of at least threee
countries.
In relation with this programme, he
has two general
questions:
1. Do somebody knows some experience in
relation with the
Eurathlon Programme in 1995 which involves gymnastics?
2. Have you ideas about activities of
interest that the
gymnastic clubs of Europe could promote to
take profit
from this programme?
If you have interest in these
questions, you can contact with
Luis Sanzo
sending your adress through the base post.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:36:59
-0600
From: ***@HARRIER.SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject:
Re: What happened to monica!
>Does
anyone know what ever happened to Monica Covacci (sp)
Monica Covacci
was one of Canada's top gymnasts for many years.
She was the Canadian
Senior champion in 1985 at age 13, won
again in
'87, was 2nd in '89 (close battle with Lori Strong),
and
5th (?) in 1990. She competed in
the '87 & '89 World
Championships and was the top Canadian at the '88
Olympics.
If I recall correctly, she competed compulsories only at
1990
Elite Canada (December) and I believe retired early in the
1991
season.
Last I heard, she got married a couple of years ago and
had a baby. She
is now Monica Covacci-Gray.
Sorry I don't
have more definite information.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 14:40:45
-0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject:
Atlanta Pre-Olympics (from USA Today)
Date sent: 25-OCT-1995 14:39:59
According
to USA Today, the US men's delegation to the
Pre-Olympic
event will be Mihai
Bagiu and Blaine Wilson. No women's delegation
has been decided as of yet.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 17:55:35
-0400
From: ***@GOOFY.UMD.EDU
Subject:
Re: Eating disorders... my 2
cents...
>However,if
the numbers of people with eating disorders is higher in
>gymnastics than in the population at large (of similar
aged
>girls), than gymnasts, coaches, and fans
should be trying to
>fix the problems that lead
to those higher percentages.
No, no no! Someone much smarter than I once said,
and I'm paraphrasing,
"there are lies, damn
lies, and statistics". Now,
I've been putting off
responding to the
"eating disorder" thread until I got a chance to look at the
literature, but I feel that I have to chime in with all the
numbers and
statistics that have been flying
around.
One of the first lessons that one learns in a beginning
statistics class is
that just because there
happens to be a relationship between two variables, it
does
not necessarily follow that there is a cause/effect relationship between
them. For
example, There is a .95+ relationship between
committing a crime
and having drank milk as a
child. Therefore, should one
conclude that
drinking milk leads to a life of
crime? Of course not! What is not taken
into
account is that of those that don't commit crimes there is also a .95+
correlation with drinking milk as a child.
O.K.,
what does this have to do with Gymnastics and eating disorders. Well,
it
was reported in the TASK FORCE ON USA GYMNASTICS RESPONSE TO THE FEMALE
ATHLETE
TRIAD, preliminary Report, that "Gymnasts, especially elite level
gymnasts, tend to have personality traits including striving
for perfection,
obsessive behavior and attention
to detail..". These variables
all correlate
to adolescents who tend to have
disordered eating problems.
Unfortunately, it
does not include the
correlation itself.
So what can we glean from the above? Well, if 1) a certain behavior or
personality trait is associated with eating disorders in the
normal adolescent
population, and 2) gymnasts tend
to attract those from the normal adolescent
population
to the sport, then 3) there should be no wonder if there is a high
level of eating disorders in those who engage in the
sport. The fact that it
might be higher than the normal population is probably due
to the fact that
gymnastics is self-selecting,
that is, in order to do well, one needs the
attention
to detail, the striving for perfection, etc. I would expect that
any sport that requires these traits will attract
individuals who would be at
risk for an eating
disorder (for example, figure skating and ballet).
What this means is
that while we have an obligation to educate our athletes,
coaches, parents, and judges on the possibility of eating
disorders, we should
*not* accept a mea culpa
position. I firmly believe that
gymnastics is not
the main or even major problem
in regard to eating disorders. The
major
problem is society driven and would exist
with or without gymnastics.
My .02!
--
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:42:58
-0400
From: ***@MUSS.CIS.MCMASTER.CA
Subject:
Re: Nude Gymnastics comp!!
Hahahahah, would
we really reduce ourselves to that??? But seriously,
I've heard that a lot
of ex-gymnasts have become strippers... A shame.
> > about an ad placed in a UK magazine about a nude
gymnastics
>
> Just to be fair, has anyone seen a tape of
>
nude female gymnastics available? Competition?
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 12:46:48
-0400
From: ***@MUSS.CIS.MCMASTER.CA
Subject:
Re: Commentators, in general
She won nationals I think in 1984, or was
that the ontario cup?? I
went
to both so long ago!
Sam
>
Per your question about Elfie Schlagel, yes, she was
a gymnast for Canada.
>
Maybe some of our Canadian subscribers could supply more info about her,
but
> I have a tape of the 1986 NCAA Women's Nationals, and I believe
Elfie was a
> medalist on bars (yes, she went
to college in the USA--I don't remember
> where,
and the tape is in the annals of VCR junk...)(Utah won the team comp
> that year, BTW).
I share your disbelief with her remarks. I guess her momma
> never taught her that if she didn't have anything nice to
say she shouldn't
> say anything at all.:)
>
>
Just an FYI from your humble
>
> Michele in 'Joisey'
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 19:04:17
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
TV Commentators
Guys:
Let's not forget it's the commentators job at any gymnastics meet to pont out
why a particular
athlete will win while another will not. Distinctions must
be made. And, like in the mind of the judges, mistakes often
color the
scoring. As a result, inciteful commentary is often weighed to problems a
gymnast has on a particular event.
Gymnastics is
not your child's piano recital. It's a competition and the
viewer needs to know why someone wins and why someone
doesn't.
When someone performs an extraordinary skill or does
something perticularly
well,
Elfi Schlegel has offered plenty of positive
commentary.
Sport commentary is too full of Polyannas
both male and female.
David Michaels
------------------------------
End
of GYMN-L Digest - 24 Oct 1995 to 25 Oct 1995 - Special issue
*****************************************************************