GYMN-L Digest - 24 Aug 1995 to 25 Aug 1995

There are 27 messages totalling 689 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. From TPTB at NBC (2)
2. Miller Stalked
3. Dawes beam in finals
4. WUG Men's Team
5. Stormy's Award
6. tidbits
7. RINGS question
8. Intro & Gyms in CT
9. Christie Powell (2)
10. Hi! (2)
11. Bouncing vaulter
12. new, old moves (3)
13. Kristy Powell
14. WORLD UNIVERSITY GAMES RESULTS
15. Hello
16. Katy Maty
17. fan mail
18. Always forward and further
19. e-mail pen pal
20. Considerate posting
21. WUG
22. Intro and Question

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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 23:33:56 -0400
From: ***@GATEWAY.US.SIDWELL.EDU
Subject: Re: From TPTB at NBC

> I think that the actual "forewards" both evenings went overboard,
> and risked doing more harm than good. A viewer who didn't know
> better might conclude that Miller and Dawes were both ancient,
> washed-up, bitter 18-year-olds who should drop out to preserve
> their failing health. This just isn't true, nor does it reflect
> the fact that a number of the current top non-US international gymnasts
> are "old" by the standards of Barcelona.

Lest someone think that *no one* out there would consider Miller and
Dawes washed up, that's *exactly* the impression my grandmother got after
watching NBC's Sat. night coverage. The extent of my grandmother's
gymnastics knowledge is: if you see people flipping around on TV, call
Lisa and tell her gymnastics is on (and I'm not exaggerating...she came
to my Level 6 state meet a few years ago and when my mother tried to
explain the judging to her, she asked "What are tricks?")

Also, I was just talking to someone today who thought that Dominique
Dawes was really really good, but Shannon Miller was washed up and had
reached her prime in Barcelona. I guess that impression was left over
from last year. Actually, something kind of disturbing in this
conversation was that this guy said "Oh, yeah, Shannon Miller, didn't she
*lose*?" I said, "Well, she got the silver medal in Nationals this year
and last, so I wouldn't call that *losing*?" He said, "Oh, yeah, she
lost. She didn't win, did she?" Don't know where he picked up the idea
that being the second-best gymnast in the country is losing, but from the
coverage that Miller has been getting, I wouldn't be surprised if it were
from the media.

> It's great that NBC thinks there's prime-time potential for gymnastics,
> but I think the amount and the tone of human interest stuff went
> too far this time. More than half of the coverage of Doni Thompson
> was the fluff piece!

And the fluff piece was corny! I mean, it's OK if you show a little bit
about her home life, or about her gym life, or whatever. But showing an
obviously staged, *very* fake giggle is just...corny!

Lisa

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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 00:51:28 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Miller Stalked

I've gotten a couple of requests for the article about Shannon Miller being
stalked. I'll email to anyone who wants to privately, but I know I can't put
it on the list.serv. So, if you want to read the whole thing, just e-mail me
at LeeAnn1@aol.com.

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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 06:31:00 UTC
From: ***@GENIE.GEIS.COM
Subject: Dawes beam in finals

Lisa asked about the start value of Dawes' beam routine in finals. I
reviewed the tape and I think it was a 9.90. My VCR is on its deathbed, but
here is what I could make out:
I was missing a acro-gym combination. I think the Valdez to the
straddle jump was supposed to be the connection, but the wobble out of the
Valdez killed it. Then to help support my premise, Kelli Hill greeted her
at the end with "well there was the gym-acro..." Now I was hard pressed to
find the .30 in deductions. I could see .05 for the wobble out of the
Valdez, .05 in the whole layout series for bent knees, and .10 max for the
hop and wobble on the dismount. Maybe .05 for the extra steps to get into
position for the dismount and .025 for the bent legs on the FF's leading to
the dismount, but that is mighty picky.
What slays me is why the AA beam routine wasn't scored lower. Without
the layout series, I had her start value at 9.80 (-.10 connection bonus,
-.10 mixed series). Then for deductions, I had .05 on the wobble after the
valdez, .20 on the FF-layout, and .10 on the dismount (under rotation and
hop). That gives me a 9.45. Oh well, my score is tossed again (G).
Adriana: What is your read on it?

What thrilled me the most about this nationals was the depth on the
team. I want some TEAM gold (G).

Kathy E.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 06:23:00 MDT
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: WUG Men's Team

World University Games
Fukuoka, Japan

Men's team final
1. Japan 169.975 points
2. China 169.850
3. Russia 169.550
4. South Korea 168.925
5. Belarus 165.775
6. Hungary 165.625

For individual scores, all I know is that Scherbo scored 55.30, whereas
Japan's Hikaru Tanaka scored a 57.175.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 06:23:00 MDT
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Re: Stormy's Award

>special award given to Stormy Eaton for his >contributions to the sport. The
>award was presented to his >son and daughter and was followed by a wonderful
>video >showing the many facets of Stormy's personality.

I also wanted to add that Dawn did a really good job on the Year in Review
video. I wonder Dawn if this is for sale by the USGF? There is some great
stuff in there -- I particularly remember a zoom-in of Doni Thompson's 1.5
hop on the uneven bars, run in slow mo. The entire crowd cheered when (in
the video) she caught it. ;)

(My only complaint would be that I'd have liked to see more male gymnasts in
the video.)

Also, for those who weren't at the ceremony of honors, there was a nice
video shown about the coaches.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 06:23:00 MDT
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: tidbits

Info from the Reuters newswire:

The Romanian daily "Evenimentul Zilei" on Monday ran a front-page story
saying it had been told Comaneci had died but had been unable to check the
story before deadline. However, Comaneci is very much alive. Nadia, who is
in Bucharest, said that "I am not dead, I am alive, and more than that I
want to marry my fiancee Bart in Bucharest next year." Nadia said that she
hopes her wedding will be held in "Palace of the People" in Bucharest on
April 28. This building is the third largest building in the world(!).

Info from the AP:

A storm, with winds reported as high as 51 mph, ripped holes in four
Teflon-coated fiberglass panels of the Georgia Dome's roof between 1 a.m.
and 1:30 a.m. on August 20th. The Georgia Dome will be the gymnastics,
handball, and basketball venue at the '96 Games. The panels way about a ton
each, and gave way to water and "roof material" which then crashed to seats
in the upper decks and punched holes through the (concrete) floors and went
on to damage the lower decks. If it had occurred 3-4 hours earlier, it
would have been right in the middle of a Falcons-Cleveland exhibition game.
Luckily, though, no one was injured. The dome will be repaired in time for
the season opener of the Falcons against Carolina on Sept. 3rd.

Reuters--

Daniela Bartova (TCH) broke her own world pole vault record on Aug 22,
clearing 4.21 meters. She has broken the world record seven times in three
months. Bartova is former international gymnast.

AP--

The NCAA Interpretations Commission met Thursday and said it found no
violations in the Georgia's recruiting of high school football star Corey
Simon. This is the case that involved the visit by Leah Brown, Georgia gymnast.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 09:25:09 -0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: Re: RINGS question

>> Who was the first gymnast to perform cross strap moves on rings? You know,
>> ...
>> I know that Yang Yueshan was doing it in the mid 1980s. Anyone know of
>> others before him?
>>
>Texx writes:
>>I believe thast one of the cross strap moves was called a Yamawaki (sp?)
>>So maybe thats the dude who started it.
>>First guy I ever saw do it was Jeff Bender (Lancaster PA).
>
Rachel writes:
>A Yamawaki is a double front between the rings without releasing. (A
>Guzhocghy (sp) is a double back.) I think a (very) few times I have seen a
>gymnast do a Yamawaki between crossed straps so possibly therein lies the
>confusion.


Actually, I have heard about crossed straps in stories that date back into
the 1950's and flying rings -- I don't remember who they were talking
about, but I do know that it was being done (I am under 30). There were a
lot of things being done on flying rings in the '50's that it has taken
time to return to still rings.

Anyway, just thought I would throw that one out there.

Mayland

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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 10:58:00 EST
From: ***@ADP.UCHC.EDU
Subject: Intro & Gyms in CT

Hi,
I'm guilty of lurking for a few months - I guess I'll introduce myself.

I am an ex gymnast ( if you want to call my attempt - gymnastics) I started
in high school (not much of a coach). I went on to compete in college div.3
( at U Maine Farmington ) - had a better coach ( I learned a back
handspring). I did some judging after college for high school and y meets
in Maine. Now I just a spectator.

I have a question ( actually for a friend ) - her niece has just move here
to CT and would like to find a gym to train in. She is a beginner.

TIA

Sue (#1 fan of the Lady Huskies - NCAA Div. 1- Women's Basketball Champs
35-0!!!!)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:12:41 -0500
From: ***@Q.CONTINUUM.NET
Subject: Christie Powell

I saw a competition earlier this year or perhaps last fall that Christie
Powell won, and there was a lot of hype about her. Was she at Nationals?
Anyone know if she is still on track for Olympics trials?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:36:04 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Hi!

As a new member, I thought I'd just introduce myself. My name is Anne, I live
in New York City. I am 13 years old. I've been a gymnast off and on for about
6 years. Right now I'm making the transition from club to High Schhol
Gymnastics. I has a Level 5 USGF before I broke my hand on a back handspring
this year. My favorite event is floor and I dread beam. I'm very exited about
finally getting on GYMN!

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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 14:09:15 EDT
From: ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Bouncing vaulter

There was also a Korean gymnast at the Seoul Olympic Games who
ran full tilt down the runway and smack into the horse, with
unpleasant results. Don't remember who he was.

>>Kathy

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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:42:06 CDT
From: ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: new, old moves

New or old moves I would like to see(women):

Floor:
Quadruple turn
2 1/2 twist punch Barani(front 1/2)
Double front, punch front
Double twisting front, punch front

Beam:
Round-off, Arabian
Mount: Round-off Arabian

Bars:
Consecutive Tkatchevs

Just some thoughts.

Does anyone remember when Phoebe Mills did the back tuck between the
bars to transverse down to the low bar, it was at an American Cup or
mixed pairs a while back. I guess that was a tucked Pak Salto. And does anyone
know, to get a move named after you, does it have to be performed at
an Olympics or a World Championships or does it just have to be at an
international meet?

Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 15:35:18 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Kristy Powell

Kristy won the 1995 American Cup. She did not compete at Nationals because
of a lingering injury that kept her out of the Olympic Festival as well. I
think she successfully petitioned to the World Team Trials (correct me,
please, if I'm wrong), and I would love to see her make the World team to
Sabae.
-Emily

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 11:26:00 PDT
From: ***@CCM.FM.INTEL.COM
Subject: WORLD UNIVERSITY GAMES RESULTS

I'm in digest form, so I don't know if anyone has posted this yet...

TEAM RESULTS: WORLD UNIVERSITY GAMES

(Results courtesy of Reuters and AP, excerpted and modified with respect to
copyright restrictions)

Men's

1. Japan 169.975
2. China 169.850
3. Russia 169.550
4. South Korea 168.925
5. Belarus 165.775
6. Hungary 165.625
Hikaru Tanaka (JPN) scored 57.175, Scherbo (BLR) scored 55.30.

No info on the US Placement....

Women's

1. Russia (Goloub, Vets, Goriounova, Sivovol, Aliakrinskaia), 114.925.
2. U.S. 113.925
3. China 113.575
4. Ukraine 113.425
5. Japan 112.500
6. Czech Republic 110.325

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 16:06:58 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Hi!

Being new on gymn, I just thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Lisa, I'm
13, I live in New York City, and I love gymnastics. I'm a Level 6 (hoping to
qualify for 8 by the end of the upcoming season, if I can get a few more
tricks - any tips for back tucks, and connecting skills in the Level 6 bar
routine would be welcome!) at Gym-Cats in Yonkers, but I'm about to switch to
another gym, and before this summer I trained with another new gymn member,
Anne (PBenjamson@aol.com), for quite a while. I'm particularly interested in
the more serious issues which are present in the sport right now, such as
that certain book which has been written which is very negative about
gymnastics, age limits, dropping compulsories, the status (or lack of!) of
men's gymnastics in the U.S., etc.... I'm looking forward to hearing from
everyone on gymn!
----Lisa

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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 13:39:24 -0700
From: ***@U.WASHINGTON.EDU
Subject: Hello

Hi! I am a new member of Gymn and I would like to introduce myself. My
name is Corrie and I live in Seattle. I did gymnastics for 4 years in
high school, but never did club gymnastics. I learned fast though and
made it to the state high school championships twice in three events (I
never liked vault and didn't try very hard at it and was not
very good at it). I now coach at the high school level and at a club.
My college doesn't have gymnastics otherwise I would still be doing it
regularly. That's it. :) Bye.

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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 14:08:49 -0700
From: "***@U.WASHINGTON.EDU
Subject: Re: Christie Powell

> I saw a competition earlier this year or perhaps last fall that Christie
> Powell won, and there was a lot of hype about her. Was she at Nationals?
> Anyone know if she is still on track for Olympics trials?
>
Christie Powell won the 1995 American Cup in March in Seattle. I am not
positive, but I think she was still a junior at the time of that meet. I
also heard something about her being injured.

I just read something about Dominique Dawes going to the U of Maryland.
I thought she had a full gymnastics scholarship to Stanford and was going
to defer a year or two (until after the '96 Olympics). Does anyone know
about her?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 16:58:44 CDT
From: ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: Katy Maty

Regarding the University Games, I remembered that Katy Maty performed
one of the coolest dance tricks I have ever seen at those trials. You know
everybody
is tired of the same 'ol Popa(full-twisting straddle jump-D). Well,
she performed a 1 1/2 Tour Jete on floor. Well, a Tour Jete with an
addition 1/1 twist. It was awesome. She was, I believe one of the
alternates of the team.

Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 14:56:01 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: fan mail

A little while ago I wrote to Vanessa Atler and today I got a response
back. For those who are interested, here is what it said:

Dear Mardi,

Hi! I'm Vanessa Atler. Thank you for writing me. I
really appreciate it. I'm glad you liked my beam routine, but I think I
need more difficulty.
I would very much like to try out for the 2000 Olympics in
Sydney, Australia. I know I'll have to work very hard, but it would be
such an honor to make the team.
I am 13 years old and I started gymnastics when I was about 5
1/2 years old.
I do have one brother. His name is Teddy and he's an excellent
baseball player. I love him so very much.
Thank you for finding the time to write to me!

Love,

Vanessa Atler


On the back she signed her autograph very big and drew Olymic rings
with 2000 written inside of them. Then she wrote USA. It is very cool!
I hope you like it. I also have a fan note from Michelle Campi if
anyone cares what it says you can e-mail me. Thanks!

Margi and Mardi :)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Aug 1995 00:04:55 +0000
From: ***@TPONE.TELEPAC.PT
Subject: Always forward and further

Hi,

For the past week I've posted some messages in this mailing list.

First, I never wish to insult nobody thoughts or feelings, instead as I
live in a free and democratic nation - Portugal - I am ABLE and even
ENCOURAGED as a mature and concious adult to express my ideas and opinions
not just in a passive way but indeed in an active position in order to help
bulding a better society we all live in.
Discussion is by all means the way to acomplish it, and I am absolute
certain that all I've said and will say is not something final and
ablolute. Instead, it shows indeed that I know nothing about and I am just
motivating people to express themselves in favour or against my opinions in
order to learn more about it. My final goal is just keep learning a bit
more. And believe me, if I want to learn anyting from you, I certainly will
not ask you directly but instead I will express my "poor" opinion so you
will feel most upset and express yourself in every way you are able to.
That's when you will most certainly tell me everything you know.

Always forward and further as I must say.

Let me tell you that if there's a ten score in gymnastics then I must say
that's a good score. A 11 would be better but if a 10 is the most of it
than I will aim for it.

I am not a gymnast and never was, but I sincerely enjoy a LOT watching a
good gymnastics performance. There are people who goes to Opera, movies,
theatre, Zoo, etc. I enjoy myself gymnastics and one thing in gymnasts
performance I most enjoy is certainly to see how a gymnast gets over a
mistake. If judges found it something to decrease the gymnasts score, I
really dont care, I dont watch gymnasts fot theirs scores but instead for
theirs performance, and as I've said before there's nothing better than how
a gymnast gets over a mistake.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 15:16:30 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: e-mail pen pal

Hi!

I am looking for a pen pal that is a male or female any age. I am 14
years old and so is my sister who also writes on here. I am looking for
someone who likes to write and doesn't mind long e-mail messages.
Thanks! Respond to me if you are interested!

Margi and Mardi ;)

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Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 16:24:40 -0600
From: ***@HARRIER.SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: Re: new, old moves

>Floor:
>Quadruple turn
-how about the Polish rhythmic gymnast that does 9 turns (!)

>2 1/2 twist punch Barani(front 1/2)
-Olesia Dudnik did this at '89 USSR World Trials (a tucked Barani, btw)

>Double front, punch front
-?? sounds tough...

>Double twisting front, punch front
-won't be long before we see this (Sabae?)


>Beam:
>Round-off, Arabian
-I know of one girl that has trained this (the name escapes me at the moment)

>Mount: Round-off Arabian
-hey, if someone can do on the beam someone should be able to do onto it


>Bars:
>Consecutive Tkatchevs
-a Soviet girl did this at '92 (?) Moscow Stars of the World (again, the
name escapes me ... I've watched a ton of new videos in the last few months)


>Does anyone remember when Phoebe Mills did the back tuck between the
>bars to transverse down to the low bar, it was at an American Cup or
>mixed pairs a while back. I guess that was a tucked Pak Salto.

-That one I'd have to check on video. 1988? Omelianchik did it, as well.


>And does anyone
>know, to get a move named after you, does it have to be performed at
>an Olympics or a World Championships or does it just have to be at an
>international meet?

-If I'm not mistaken, it must be an official FIG meet. (Worlds, Olympics
or World Cup).


Hope this helps...

DORY

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 17:28:23 CDT
From: ***@UA1VM.UA.EDU
Subject: Considerate posting

This is a big thank you to everyone who has been a part of gymn. I wanted
to express my appreciation to everyone for their consideration in posting
and keeping to the subject of this list. I have enjoyed all of the different
subjects people have brought up. On some of the other lists I am seeing
people get into free-for-alls and posting junk. May gymn last a long time!
Brenda "Every rose has its thorns-white ones more so than any other kind."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 19:28:16 -0400
From: ***@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject: WUG

Anyone have any idea what happened to the Ukrainian men at World
University Games? Were they even there? The last I heard, the team was to have
included Korobchinsky, Misyutin and Sharipov, plus whoever else qualified for
the remaining slots. I'm just a bit mystified as to how the team that is #3 in
the world could not have placed in the top 6. Did EVERYONE fall?

Beth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 20:58:14 -0400
From: ***@DELPHI.COM
Subject: Re: From TPTB at NBC

Preface: I read the Joan Ryan book, Little Girls In Pretty Boxes, a few
weeks ago.

>
> > I think that the actual "forewards" both evenings went overboard,
> > and risked doing more harm than good. A viewer who didn't know
> > better might conclude that Miller and Dawes were both ancient,
> > washed-up, bitter 18-year-olds who should drop out to preserve
> > their failing health. This just isn't true, nor does it reflect
> > the fact that a number of the current top non-US international gymnasts
> > are "old" by the standards of Barcelona.

I think the intro segment and the fluff pieces from the NBC coverage
fit exactly into the characterizations of Ms. Ryan of the USA's attitudes
and perceptions about female gymnastics: young is better, tiny is better,
Bela is the grand poo bah guru, athletes who are barely out of high school
are washed up, etc. I can imagine Ms. Ryan and others saying "See?? See?? What
did I tell you?". If that is the kind of playing on emotion that the big
networks think is needed to draw an audience to gymnastics broadcasts, USA
Gymnastics
should set them straight or consider other options. Any bump in revenue is
not worth the potential damage to the sport.
--John

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 22:29:59 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: new, old moves

>2 1/2 twist punch Barani(front 1/2)
>Double front, punch front

A Russian girl who performed at 95 Moscow Stars is doing an arabian double
front, punch front.

>Double twisting front, punch front

Alexandra Marinescu (ROM) did this at Jr. Euros in May (Gold AA & beam,
bronze floor)


>Bars:
>Consecutive Tkatchevs

Irina Golub (odd she gets a mention on gymn *twice* in one day) does this or
at least did. She was a part of that incredible bars team Russia fielded at
the 92 Jr Euros, but unlike most of her teammates (Khorkina, Fabrichnova,
Kochetkova) has not gone on to win any major titles (Sorokina was the other
one).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 1995 19:55:41 -0700
From: ***@ACCESSNV.COM
Subject: Intro and Question

Hi,
My name is Leah. I'm a 23 year old gymnastics coach in Las
Vegas, NV. I teach preschool through intermediate gymnastics at Spence
Gymnastics and Dance. I've been lurking around here for the past few
months, but working six days a week I haven't had time to put together an
introduction.
I was a gymnast for about twelve years while I was growing up in
Chicago. I competed in the Park District program for about five years. My
specialties were vault and beam. I've been coaching for less than a year,
and this forum has been very helpful to me.
Now for the question. Does anyone know anything about USAG online
on Delphi? Is there any way to access it from outside, or do you have to
subscribe to Delphi to get it? Is it worth subscribing to?
Thanks for the info! Be seeing you!
Leah

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 24 Aug 1995 to 25 Aug 1995
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