GYMN-L Digest - 21 Nov 1995 to 22 Nov 1995
There
are 9 messages totalling 280 lines in this
issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Korbut/Rulfova
2.
Society's reaction to the death of an athlete
3. Rulfova
4. Reply about patriotism (2)
5. EMPLOYMENT
6. Patriotism/Politics
7. Jeopardy
8. Sullivan Award Nominees
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 00:06:46
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Korbut/Rulfova
>Korbut did two variations on a layout back salto. On beam she did a
>back
flip to a sitting position with no twist. I think she introduced
>this after the '72 Olympics, it wasn't in her gold medal
performance.
I recall ONE version (which sounds like the one you are describing) which was
in fact in her 72
routine.
>A Rulfova is a Korbut with a full-twist which was
pioneered by Jana
>Rulfova in the early '80's.
I think she was the '83 World Beam champ.
Olga Mostepenova
was the 83 World Beam Champ. I
don't think Rulfova ever won
a
World (and certainly not Olympic) medal on this or any event. Many have
mistakenly
accredited Shushunova with being the first to perform
this move.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 08:37:26
-0400
From: ***@CAPITALNET.COM
Subject:
Re: Society's reaction to the death of an athlete
>I thought of
this when hearing the news reports on the death of skating star
>Sergi Grinkov(sp?). Every news report I heard
mentioned that there weren't any
>drugs or
alcohol in his system at the time of death.
>
>Why is it that as
a society, we assume that when an athlete dies at an early
>age that that person has had a drug or alcohol over dose?
This is the
>impression that I got from the
broadcast. Please tell me if there is something
>to
my line of reasoning, because my family tells me that I'm nuts.
Tell
your family that I don't think you're nuts, but fortunately I haven't
heard any reports with the drugs/alcohol remarks, and hope
that I never
will. It's not necessary and is
simply bad journalism, characteristic of
what I
call "swampTV" (Geraldo/Hard
Copy/Enquirer/buy this swampland -
kinda
stuff). I'm not exposed to as much swampTV up here in Canada as I
was
when I was in the U.S. I find
Canadians don't have much
tolerance/curiosity for swampTV as Americans seem to. (BTW, while I'm here
in GYMN, Joan Ryan's book belongs in the swamp too,
IMHO).
Before I heard the autopsy results, I was remotely concerned
that the heart
attack might have been caused by
some medication he could've been taking
for his
back problems that I knew he has been having recently.
The societal
assumptions that you refer to are based on factual past incidents.
Young
athletes HAVE died from steroid use. Even teenaged non-athletes have
had heart attacks and died from first time cocaine and crack
use. River
Phoenix's untimely
drug-related death came as a similar surprise, as a
recent
example. There are also enough
scary drugs (prescription and
illicit) out there
that can induce heart attack. There
have been very few
well-enough-known cases of
non-drug-related heart attacks in young people.
Sergei Grinkov's death is truly shocking and tragic. I had expected G&G to
skate forever, like the Protopopovs. They have so many exceptional and
exquisite qualities about them. I am honoured
to have seen them skate in
person and have even
been fortunate to have briefly shared some ice time
once.
I
have mixed feelings about the autopsy.
If I were Katya, I wouldn't have
wanted it
done either, but on the other hand, when the world asks, "How can
a 28-year old top-conditioned athlete have a heart
attack?", the question
HAS to be answered; the public record begs to
be set straight. That it was
not drug-related is a great relief, yet, this is certain to raise the
awareness level on heart disease amongst all ages.
If
we find the journalism unnecessary, distasteful, or unacceptable in any
way, we should write to them and state our positions. They do write FOR
the
public, after all.
Regards,
Grace
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 12:38:18
-0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject:
Rulfova
The only competition I can remember
this gymnast competing in was the 1981
Europeans held in Madrid Spain. IG
covered this meet very well and there is
a picture
of Rulfova doing a korbut
like move *BETWEEN* the bars. I think
that if
someone has the back issues available in their library or at hone
they could see if she did this move on beam back then. I
don't recall her
competing in Bucharest in '83 or Olumouc '84.
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 11:21:53
MDT
From: ***@DEANS.HEALTH.UTAH.EDU
Subject:
Reply about patriotism
A short note was posted regarding an
anti-patriotism issue with
regard to
gymnastics. I thought I would just
add a couple of
sentences to this idea because it
might help put things in a
perspective that I
believe is true of the vast majority (bordering on
100%) of the coaches and
athletes who represent the US in gymnastics
in
international competition.
Having coached a couple dozen international gymnasts some years
ago, I must say that representing the US in international
competition
was taken very seriously by all the
athletes and coaches I have ever
known. I think I can say that doing this was
considered an honor on
a par with being an
astronaut in the 60s. Moreover, the
times when
the American flag was hoisted in honor
of one of the athlete's
performances there were
many teary eyes in the contingent.
Call it
partiotism,
pride in country, or whatever ALL of the athletes and
coaches
I have known regard such experiences with enormous pride and
feel honored to be able to represent their country.
I too feel somewhat violated by
words and actions that in any way
"cheapen"
that experience. Although I will
defend to the death
anyone's right to their own
opinion, I do not share an antipatriotic
view, and
in my experience, none of the coaches and athletes that I
have known share such an opinion. A democracy must always have a
sort of "background noise" of dissent that helps
keep the democracy
alive and healthy. In that spirit I can tolerate views that
are
counter to my own. However, it is important that all views
be heard,
partiotic and
otherwise. The arguments for and
against a particular
view should also be voiced
without fear. It would be nice
if
athletes could compete on a level playing field
with no influence of
politics whatever. However, this has not been the case
since the
original Olympic Games and is even less
likely today. The political
aspects of sport are what often produce the national medal
counts as
some kind of indication of what nations
are the "best." This
results
in a chauvinism that is also difficult for
me to take, but I also see
this as some of the
background noise that surrounds sport.
Sport has
been used as a vehicle for many
things besides giving young people an
opportunity
to test their abilities. One need
only look at the
commercialism surrounding the 96
games and the amount of money that
is likely to be
made to see that sport can be subverted for a variety
of
"other agendas." It is
the responsibility of citizens in a
democracy to
be tolerant of a wide variety of views, but also to
recognize
that often the background noise of dissent can rise to such
deafening levels that real changes occur - in my opinion
usually for
the better. This is certainly a clumsy way of doing
things, but it
does work, and I believe that
history has shown us although a
democracy with all
of its freedoms is a horribly inefficient form of
government
- all of the rest are much worse.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 14:09:01
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
EMPLOYMENT
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 14:45:02
-0500
From: ***@GOOFY.UMD.EDU
Subject:
Re: Reply about patriotism
>A short note was posted regarding an
anti-patriotism issue with
>regard to
gymnastics. I thought I would just
add a couple of
>sentences to this idea because
it might help put things in a
>perspective that
I believe is true of the vast majority (bordering on
>100%) of the
coaches and athletes who represent the US in gymnastics
>in international competition.
My
initial response to the issue of patriotism that was brought up by Mr.
Grinde (Re: Nancy Raymond's attack on patriotism) was to
email Mr. Grinde
directly
and not bother the rest of the list.
However, with Dr. Sands now
posting in
response to his article I feel the need to publicly respond. The
statement
by Nancy Raymond to which Mr. Grinde objected was IN
HER SIGNATURE
FILE! There was
nothing in the body of the message that had anything
whatsoever
to do with either patriotism or an attack on it. The message was
actually
about how to get back issues of IG.
Nancy Raymond is an IG
Production Assistant.
Mr. Grinde indicated that if political issues were continued in
messages, then
he was going to have to unsubscribe
from the list. Well,
congratulations Mr.
Grinde, *you* have succeeded
in prompting others to post re: political issues!
If this prompts you to
unsubscribe from the list, then I have only one thing
to
say... Don't let the door hit you
on the way out!
Dr. Sands, I eagerly read all of your articles in
Technique and, in general,
look forward to your
input on the list, but in regard to your current item I
have
one question.... What's your point? I'm sure that that last statement
sounded rude, but I really don't mean it as such. I'm just damn pissed that
someone has taken a line from a sig and has blown it so far
out of proportion.
--
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 16:03:53
MDT
From: ***@DEANS.HEALTH.UTAH.EDU
Subject:
Patriotism/Politics
I tried to state my position as politely and
tactfully as I could.
But here goes again: I think Mr. Grinde,
et al. overreacted to the
issue and I simply tried
to state that "in my opinion" an anti-
patriotism
idea is not a mainstream view of the gymnastics people I
have
come to know in the last 25 years.
As for not including
political issues on
this forum, I think it is unlikely that we could
get
much agreement on what constitutes a political statement or
argument. In
fact, many of the issues discussed on this forum are
political
in my view, but I hold a rather broad idea of what
constitutes
"political." Frankly, I
think that any statement that is
made without
supporting evidence is largely political.
Certainly,
there have been many issues
discussed on this forum that carry no
such
evidence with them. As I think back
to various threads I can
recall issues of individual
coaching competencies, child abuse,
various kinds
of implied threats made by coaches to athletes, whether
judging
has been fair, whether a specific athlete has an eating
disorder,
and so forth. At times I cringe a
little in reading these,
but I also understand
that a free exchange of ideas requires
tolerance
of other views and ideas.
As for reading my articles in Technique - of course I am
flattered. What
hurt a little bit is that it appears that my last
post
was taken as somehow beneath those works in quality. If I have
offended
anyone by my statements I apologize.
However, like others
on this forum, when I
see something posted that moves me to respond I
will
respond. I mean no disrespect to
anyone. I hope that Mr.
Grinde, et al. will take my comments as those of a critical
friend
and not as a flame.
Best Regards to
all.
Wm A. Sands
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 19:16:31
-0500
From: ***@BUTTERCUP.CYBERNEX.NET
Subject:
Jeopardy
I
was just watching Jeopardy, and they had a sports category in
which the answer was: Kim Zmeskal
and Shannon Miller are the only two
Americans to win all- around titles at
this sports World Championships.
Well, the first person to answer got it right, I think it was supposed to be
one
of the harder questions, but not for anyone on this forum! Just thought
you'd
like to know.
Lori
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 19:53:41
-0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Sullivan Award Nominees
Gymnastics has three 1995 AAU Sullivan Award
Nominees:
Jenny Hansen
Shannon Miller
Dominique Moceanu
Mara
------------------------------
End
of GYMN-L Digest - 21 Nov 1995 to 22 Nov 1995
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