GYMN-L Digest - 20 Aug 1995

There are 20 messages totalling 499 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Coverage (and Dominique M)
2. Nationals (3)
3. Tv. Alert!!!!!
4. Moceanu
5. Lost coverage
6. Moceanus floor
7. Forsters
8. floor routines
9. Nationals EF and commentary'
10. NBC coverage
11. Competition videos (2)
12. Chris Waller
13. new beam
14. Jr champ to Sr champ
15. Event Finals
16. Tanya Maeirs
17. Great NBC Coverage

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 16:08:01 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Coverage (and Dominique M)

>I totally agree that the coverage was terrible. I wished we had seen
>more of the
>others...not that I didn't enjoy seeing Shannon and others but I
>would have
>enjoyed seeing the other girls also.
>Michele

I agree. I kept wondering if we would get to see anyone who had placed above
6th. But I did like seeing Dominique Moceanu's routines. I thought she did
great. Her form was close to perfect everywhere. Her tumbling sequence on
beam was great.
Dawn

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 13:57:48 -24000
From: ***@USAID.GOV
Subject: Nationals

I just read David M's post. Okay, I understand they only had 44
minutes. Yes, I know the coverage has to be viewer friendly and interesting
to the *average* person. I know that, in general, the people who work on
these things are trying to do the best they can. Tell me, what is the
solution for this? Who do we talk to? Does anyone know if these advertisers
are on E-Mail? I would be more than happy to E-Mail them, and I'm sure
others would, too, if they are truly calling the shots. Remember, GYMN is
only a small percentage of gymnastics' fans, this is not a situation where
the zealous few are voicing their opinions. I would love any suggestions
anyone out there has, because complaining about this does very little to help
the situation. Yes, I know we are lucky for what we do get (fans of rhythmic
and sports acro get zilch), but I'm sorry, I want *more*.

Ok, about what we did see:

Dominique M. - the little squirt did it, she won it outright. Overscored a
little on vault, but rock-solid beam and good bars (needs to unflex her
feet). Floor needs work, as others have said, but hopefully they will
straighten things out by the Olympics.

Shannon - she wasn't at her best, but I was impressed by her toughness
nontheless. Even though she fell on the third layout, I was glad to see her
take the risk and not play it safe. Glad to see Shannon *tumble* again on
floor, and bars--whoa! This impressed me most of all. Nearly anyone else
would have been off.

Phelps - this girl is a lean, clean, gym machine! Only saw two routines, but
the two I saw were great, especially floor. Her floor, by far, was the one
that engaged me the most. Clean form, good lines, double front...hmmm, sound
familiar?

Dominique D. - it was said that she was injured and performing in pain, and I
can believe it. Dom was not at her standard on floor and vault, though she
did fairly well. Beam, well...actully, her score here was decent,
considering she was only scored from a 9.8 or 9.9 at most (no full-in, no
bonus from 3 layouts). I have faith, though, that she will come back to full
strength, if she can stay healthy. I somewhat resented the implication that
Dom and Shannon are hagged out and over the hill---they are still two of the
strongest gymnast on the international scene.

Vault bonus - I agree there should be some incentive for doing two vaults
from different families, and having one of those start from a 10.00. But the
halving of the landing deductions should be enough, though. The .1 bonus
should be reserved for doing two different 10.00 vaults, or for doing a vault
of extra difficulty (e.g. 2 1/2 twisting Yurchenko, handspring Rudi, etc.).

Commentators - as I've said before, I don't have a problem with the
commentators. Unfortunately, I was drinking some water when Tim made the
comment about Dom D. introducing back to back tumbling and nearly choked to
death. Tim, Tim...you were competing in the mid '80s, you should know
better, as should the Elf about the "Miller" on bars.

Fluff - to be honest, I usually like the features on the individual gymnast,
and agree that they help the public learn more about these hardworking young
women. However, if I had to choose between showing a feature and showing
more routines, obviously I would opt for the later. I was disappointed to
not see Kerri at all---she received more coverage last year, when she wasn't
even *in* the competition. All in all, I think that my basic problem was
that the 1 hour broadcast felt like an edited 2 hour broadcast, and I really
want to see the missing hour. If there is a longer tape of this competition,
I would really like to know how to get it.

Whoops! Just read Svetlana Rukhina's post. I can understand where you are
coming from, to a certain extent. If you are talking about style, form,
elegance, and presentation, perhaps our top U.S. ladies are not in the same
catagory as, say, Boginskaya, Khorkina, Kochetkova, Podkopayeva, or
Fabrichnova, but who is? For better or for worse, gymnastics today is
different from gymnastics of, say, the '70s. I would be curious to know
which gymnast you like among the current crop.

Just my .02.
ge


P.S. Is Dominique M. old enough for '95 Worlds?

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 13:38:20 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Tv. Alert!!!!!

Saturday at 9:00 on TNT the movie Gymkata is on. Kurt Thomas is in it
and he does gymnstics and martial arts in it according to the TV. Guide
in our newspaper. Bye!

Margi :)

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 13:40:34 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Moceanu

What is wrong with Dominque Moceanu's floor routine. I really like it.
Just wondering. Bye!

Margi :)

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 18:26:05 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Lost coverage

AOL (American On Line) informed me that their News Group facility has been
experiencing intermittent down time since last Thursday (Aug. 18). As a
result, I have not received any men's results since compulsories. If anyone
has not yet deleted the results posted from New Orleans, I would be very
grateful to have you forward them to me directly at my e-mail address (rather
than re-posting them on Gymn-L):

***@aol.com

I am interested in men's all around scores, event scores during compulsories
and optionals, and scores during event finals. Thanks! : )

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 18:32:19 -0400
From: ***@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject: Nationals

Here's what I would suggest for everyone who wants to see more routines:
Contact the USAG and simply order the videotapes they make of the competition.
Though they may not be as close-up as TV, they are thorough and there's no
commentary. As David Michaels explained, NBC is stuck with time constraints
plus the fact that they have to grab the interest of the average, probably
not-too-knowledgeable viewer. This kind of person would probably be bored to
death by a USAG tape, but for fans like us, they're great! BTW, I recently got
the USAG tape of women's training from the US-UKR meet in San Jose, and it is
FANTASTIC. Two full hours, lots of close-ups, plus routines and stretching
exercises. I believe USAG also has the women's competition from San Jose, and I
know they had someone in New Orleans taping nationals. They can cater to us,
the world of devoted gymnastics fans, but TV - just by the nature of things -
has to aim its coverage at the general public and abide by what the sponsors
say. That's just how it is...

Beth

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 17:05:28 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Nationals

Pretty good coverage on the event finals. I liked seeing different
faces like Monica Flammer and Doni Thompson and Kerri Strug. I was a
little disapointed that they didn't show Jaycie Phelps though but I was
grateful for what they showed. Elfie even shut up during the floor
routines :) Dominique's fall on beam looked like it really hurt (for
those who didn't see it see missed her 3rd layout and fell straight
down onto the beam. Ouch! Wasn't her little sister adorable!!!! She was
so cute crossing her fingers when Dominique (Moceanu) was up. Well
those are my comments. Bye!

Margi :)

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 17:08:50 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Moceanus floor

One of the reasons that I heard that people don't like Dominique
Moceanu's routine is because it is too "cute ". I think the cute
routines attract an audiences attention more. In the Visa Challenge you
could even see one of the judges smiling while she was doing it. I
really like it. Just my opinion. Bye!

Margi :)

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 17:11:09 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Forsters

Do Tom and Lori Forster have any children? I know that Kerri Strug live
with them now but I as wondering if they had any others or real
children. Thanks!

Margi :)

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 20:31:58 -0400
From: ***@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject: floor routines

Well, here's my $.02 on floor routines. I don't care very much for the
"cutsie" style at all. I understand that audiences like it, but in that sense I
see that style as being more appropriate for exhibitions, not competition. I
mean, the name of the sport is ARTISTIC gymnastics, and I just don't see much
artistry in wiggling and waving. But I don't blame the gymnast - it's the
choreographer who's deciding on the moves. At the same time, I will always
admire Shannon Miller for outright refusing to put cutesy moves in her floor
routines whenever it was suggested to her. (Her mother told me in '92 that
Shannon put her foot down when it came to that, and I applaud her!) The cutesy
style may be entertaining (to some people at least), but I'd much rather see
some REAL dance and choreography, whether it be classical, jazzy, the blues
(Mitova), modern dance (Strazheva '89), ANYTHING Boginskaya does, etc. In my
opinion, those styles require a lot more effort and talent than just bouncing
around and waving to the spectators. Just my opinion.

Beth

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 19:33:26 -0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject: Nationals EF and commentary'

Date sent: 20-AUG-1995 19:27:47
Well, I have a few comments after watching EF tonight. Nice job by all the
athletes. Floor finals impressed me mopst. Not being able to hear the
music too well last night, I really appreciated Miller's routine more
tongiht. NIcely done, even wit the step out. Moceanu's routine was
better than last night, because the dance seemed to fit the music better.
I still think simple more classical would fit better, but... I REALLY
thought Dawes' bar routine was terrific. Nicely done all voer. ONE BIG
QUESTION! After Doni Thompson's bar rouitine, Daggett said training had
been a lot of crisis' and coaches "ignoring her." This DOES NOT sound
like the Forsters', so I'm wondering what happened. And grats to Flammer.
Never seen her before, but nice to see Cypress get a national champ.

NOW! As to some VERY nasty commentary I read earlier. Moceanu is not
doomed to bew a another Zmeskal (she smiles!), Phelps floor music fits
her quite nice, Dawes dserved her bars score, and her form is better than
it has ever been, and Miller looks a little tired, but not forced. I
don'ty remember who typed all this, but TALK ABOUT NASTY, NON-CONSTRUTCIVE
TOTALLY WORTHLESS, "LET'S BASH THE AMERICNAS BECAUSE WE CAN"....ARGH!!!!
Take your commentary and shove it up your...sorry....ignore that. But I
really wish that some people could be a little constructive. I think
MOceau needs some mature music, but she's only 13. And her foot form will
improve. It's already better thn last year.

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 20:58:45 -0400
From: ***@GATEWAY.US.SIDWELL.EDU
Subject: NBC coverage

Well, I must admit, being at event finals last night was just a *tad* better
than watching the NBC coverage :). It's kind of too bad that Moceanu screwed
up on bars and beam from a knowledgeable viewer's standpoint, because that
meant that NBC had to "waste" a routine on her (they showed the three
medalists + one non-medalist on all the events except vault, and for both
bars and beamthat one non-medalist was Moceanu). It would have been nice to
see Phelps or Bhardwaj on bars or Tomasek on beam, if only because they're
new faces (Bhardwaj and Tomasek at least). And thank you Tim for
explaning that Dawes' beam routine was only out of a 9.90. I still think
the score is a little low, but that explains part of it, at least (BTW, I
don't know what I was thinking when I said Dawes was underscored on beam
in the AA final; given her mistakes, that was the correct score). One
thing I noticed about Doni Thompson this year was that she smiles *a lot*
less. Like when she came in second on bars, it was almost like "oh,
there are cameras on me, so I better give a quick smile." The past two
years, she's been all smiles. Perhaps it's just because of the rough
week she had in training or whatever, but it seemed a little strange.
And that profile was corny, especially the last giggle. Oh, and do Dom
Moceanu *really* walk out of the gym every day arm in arm? ;)

Lisa

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 20:56:57 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Competition videos

I was wondering if videos were available for the major competitions of the
last 5 years or so. I am looking for the Senior Women's competitions mostly
at US, Worlds, 95 Olympic Festival, and 92 Olympics, but others from this
time period would be appreciated also. Specifically, I would like to see
Strug, Miller, and Dawes. If anyone has access to these tapes and can copy
them or tell me where to get them, please e-mail me. Thanks...

I was impressed with Moceanu, in competition and interview both. She seems
to be really enjoying herself out there, and I think she will compete and do
well in Atlanta. Miller looked good in the event finals, but the
performances (good but not what she's used to) should make her want Olympic
gold even more. The US team could potentially have 3 or 4 Barcelona
Olympians, and should really be contenders. I look forward to Trials. When
is the next televised competition?
Jennifer

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 21:10:34 -0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: Chris Waller

Chris was unable to compete on floor or vault due to tendonitis, and bone
spurs. As a result he did most of his landings short to reduce the pain
He has successfully petitioned into the world trials in Austin, TX.

Thought I would mention that Chris LaMorte's routine was awesome, except
he totally screwed up on his double layout dismount - very under-rotated
and put his hands down.

I just watched the event finals for women on TV and watched it
yesterday in the arena - it was really interesting to see the difference
of how the gymnastics comes across. I like Shannon's FX much better from
the stands than on TV. She looked so graceful and relaxed from the stands
on the upclose shots it looked more stressed.

On David St. Pierre winning the vault - just thought I mentioned that
he had not finished in the top six or top 10, but due to Stanford guys
leaving and the guys going to the World University Games early he
had the opportunity to compete. The other gymnast who was not on the
original 6 list but medaled was Mike Racanelli on FX (bronze).

I am assuming from what has been posted that nothing on the men's meet
was shown on TV. I figured that would be the case - winning AA four times
means absolutely nothing.

I must also note that Rachele and Debbie gave up valuable time on Burbon
Street to bring you the coverage that they did (I didn't, that is why
I am writing from PA instead of LA). These meets, are as George said,
extraordinary - so much happening, socializing, etc. It takes tremendous
dedication to write up so much information instead of going down to the bar
and just relaxing.

Mayland

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 21:16:39 -0400
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: new beam

For all of you who only heard the dimensions of the beam 1 million times
here is some new information that you would have learned at the meet.

The powder you seeing floating around is actually chalk. The gymnast
uses it to keep from slipping.

The floor is 40 square meters (at the men's meet)
The floor is 40 square feet (at the women's meet)

The beam is 4 inches wide.
The beam is 180 meters high.

And you thought TV commentary was bad??????????!!!!!!!!!????????

Mayland

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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 11:35:47 +1000
From: ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Competition videos

On the subject of videos, if anyone wants to swap tapes, drop me a line.
I have hundreds of international meets on tape, going back to 66 Worlds.
I mainly follow womens artistic, but have some mens and rythmic too.

Just one catch, Australia and Europe use the PAL format (as opposed to
NTSC), so if you don't have a PAL VCR or converter, it will cost about
$20 to convert a 3 hour tape........though you may be able to find a
cheaper place depending on where you live.

Michelle

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Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 11:41:41 +1000
From: ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Jr champ to Sr champ

I thought Zmeskal did it in 89 and 90?

Michelle

> I could be mistaken about this, because I haven't looked it up, but
> didn't Kristie Phillips go from junior champion in 1986 to senior champion in
> 1987?
>
> Beth
>

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 20:53:31 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Event Finals

Now my reception was not that great (NEED CABLE) but I like what I
saw. I think that Dawes and Miller are doing fine and they should
be able to win something at Worlds.

Monceanu is something interesting. (Now lets just not get TOO bent out
of shape over what I'm going to say!!) She really has to work on form
and extension. Her beam was full of moves (leaps, jumps) where she could
exntend more, but doesn't. She's got talent and as a 13 year old she
should have a great career ahead of herself, but she needs work. And
she needs to loose that FX routine. The dance, to me, was not that
impressive and she seems, at times, to be reminiscent of Zmeskal's
floor. Perhaps they recycle choreography at Karolyi's.

One thing I really liked ALOT was the podiums. I love the sound that is
made when the gymnast nails the floor on a landing. Also, it made
the televising look better. I wish that there were more meets with
podiums!



Jeff

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 19:08:07 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Tanya Maeirs

Did Tanya Maeirs compete in the nationals? Is she still injured?
Thanks! Bye!

Margi :)

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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 22:20:37 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Great NBC Coverage

To All:
You know, maybe I'm one of the few, but I thought NBC's coverage was
fantastic. I thought the pace, the features and the camera work was
above-par.
Yes, sure, I would have liked to have seen many more competitors, but,
unfortunately, that's not what the viewing public goes for. If you want the
sport to grow and prosper on television, you have to highlight the drama
between the top-level athletes and then throw in features here and there.
In NBC's coverage, I was very impressed with the camera work,
particularly with the camera on the long arm. In the past, I think the arm
was overused and made us all sort-of seasick. But now it swoops in at the
right momnet, and then NBC switches to a stationary camera at the right
moment.
And did you notice vault and bars? Normally, we all groan because the
dismount often is shown from the end of the apparatus, not letting us see the
form and distance. But at this weekend's coverage, NBC would switch cameras
at the right moment so we could see the dismounts from the side.
Vault was particularly impressive because NBC would show, close up, the
strain in the faces of the gymnasts as they ran, then would switch to the
side camera for the vault itself. Very, very nice.
And the feature piece where Nadia was shown all those years ago doing
exercises with Bela and then Dominique was shown doing similar ones with Bela
of today was great poetry.
I loved the coverage.
--- Ronald

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 20 Aug 1995
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