GYMN-L Digest - 14 Oct 1995 to 15 Oct 1995 - Special issue

There are 16 messages totalling 529 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. Criticism discussion...AGAIN (2)
2. Worlds
3. Romanians
4. Gogean (2)
5. Networking gymnasts
6. Gym for sale
7. Tv. Alert!!!!!!!!!!!
8. emotions (2)
9. AA Comp. (2)
10. America's Best Videos
11. Women's All-Around
12. BART CONNOR

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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 22:54:38 -0400
From: ***@FREENET.SCRI.FSU.EDU
Subject: Criticism discussion...AGAIN

Well isn't Romania the worst team ever.

First of all,let me say that the Romanians deserved their
victory.The scores given by the judges were *WAY* too
high,but they had the best team on the floor...according to
the code of points,that is.

>I just _hate_ Gogean

That sentence will be true if you put the word gymnastics at
the end.In *MY* opinion(and many others out
there I'm sure),her style of gymnastics does not appeal to
my tastes .Her bars is horrendous and she shouldn't score
over a 9.4 on that event...*EVER* She recieved above a 9.8
during team and outscored many of the chinese
gymnasts!Yeah...she's comparable to the Chinese.I can't tell
the difference.The only redeeming quality in her gymnastics
is her ability to stick her landings .She has no style or
personality unlike Mo Huilan,Svetlanta Khorkina(and almost
all the Russians),Svetlanta Boginskya,and select few others
who absolutely reek of the two things mentioned above.In
*MY* eyes that makes a great gymnast.Have Gogean go head to
head with one of those gymnasts and let someone who knows
absolutely nothing about gymnastics watch.Any idea on who
they'll pick as the superior gymnast?Here's a hint...It
won't be Gina.Just because the code of points says that
they're equal gymnasts(in terms of difficulty
requirements), that doesn't mean I have to think the
same.

> I mean the only thing they do is consistently perform and
not fall off the apparatus.

Tis true.China and Russia are superior to the Romanians *IF*
they hit all their routines,but things didn't go so well for
them as they did for the Romanians.

This isn't the first time that we've had a discussion on
criticizing gymnasts,and it most certainly won't be the
last.I personally find the Romanians(and especially Gina)
icky gymnasts.I'm not saying that Gina is a bad person,but
an awful gymnast.Now had I said something just to insult
them for no particulat reason,THEN I would have deserved
this post.This is a forum to discuss ALL aspects of
gymnastics,both good and bad.I wrote what I honestly felt
about the Romanians and the other gymnasts and I'm not going
to just say good things about everyone,because that's not
the way it was.Everyone is entitled to his\her opinion and
criticism is always going to present on this forum and in
everyday life.Not everyone will share your opinion or
express themselves as you do.If we all did, just think how
boring gymn would be.

To be honest,I think that your post was ABSOLUTELY
unneccesary.I would also go so far as to say that getting in
a tizzy over the Gogean teeth thing was just plain
stupid(quite a strong word,but it was the nicest one I could think
of).I've kept quiet about this subject
for quite some time,but this in addition to the Katie Dyson deal was just
too much to ignore.Lighten up,already.

My usual rambling self,

Billy

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Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 23:49:23 -18521200
From: ***@MADRAD.RADIOLOGY.WISC.EDU
Subject: Worlds

I've finally read through all the email (400+) after
Japan, but I have not watched the gymnastics on
t.v. yet. Here I go with some comments, first
answering some of the earlier ones I read(WARNING,
it's long!):
During team competition, the US coaches were indeed
Bela and Mary Lee Tracy (not Peggy Liddick, although
she was around, outside the arena).
Beth, I'm pretty sure Bogy competed before Piskun, at
least on a couple of events, because I had wondered
about the lineup too.
The reason Meng Fei got a zero for her 2nd vault was
that she showed the number for a layout tsuk, performed
a pike-layout-pike tsuk, which was the compulsory
vault. So, technically, she performed the wrong
vault (illegal vault?).
In regards to Li's translation during the press
conference, I agree with Beth in that it may have not
been done too well. Plus, there were mis-spellings
all over the place; in newspapers, and even on the
huge screens in the arena. They actually spelled
pommel horse as "pommel house" and "voult" for
vault.
With regards to Joan Ryan's comments that the abuses
seen in gymnastics is not seen in little leagues is
not true. The Chicago Tribune recently had several
articles about a little league coach who gave Lasix
(a diuretic, used for heart and blood pressure
problems) to the boys, in order for them to lose
the weight (to make the team). Worse, some of the
parents, trusting the coach, had asked him for the
drug for their little boy! The boys would only eat
salad, workout for a couple of hours, sit in a sauna,
and take the drug a couple of days before the weigh-in.
If that's not abuse, then what is? They are (or were,
before we left for Japan) considering criminal charges
against the coach. So, yes, gymnastics has its
problems, but so does little league (and all other sports).
Now my comments about the competition:
There is a homecourt advantage- Japan was overscored.
Names do count- The Greek (women's) team was wonderful;
beautiful form and good difficulty, but who were they?
The French coach had a right to be angry, his team had
the best FX routines; very original, good music, great
choreography, good difficulty, and they were performed
very well. Artistically, they were the best on floor.
I felt Ludivine Furnon should have won over Gogean on
floor, but again, who was she? Mao Yanling, of China,
was one of the most underscored gymnasts of the meet.
Every time I thought, wow, was that a great routine,
I would look up the number and see that it was her.
On the men's side, I felt Jovtchev should have been
scored a little closer to Chechi (though I do agree
Chechi is excellent on rings) in the finals. Also,
Scherbo was overscored. His vault, in the finals, had
the least distance (and height?). His high bar routine
does not impress me; there were many others throwing
more difficult routines, but not getting the same scores.
Romanians (women's, at least) were overscored- Right from
the start, it was not "who will win AA?", but "which
Romanian (Milo or Gogean) will win?" Milo performed a
bland routine in compulsory FX, but she received a 9.80.
She outscored Khorkhina, Miller, Mao, and even Marinescu,
who I thought performed way better.
As for the US gymnasts, I thought they did great. The
women showed good form and consistency. They should be
really proud of their performances. (As a side comment,
they were not so friendly with each other, but it may
have been because the coaches were not so friendly with
each other. However, after Moceanu landed her vault,
Nunno came running over and yelled,"Hey, do you know what
you just did?" She looked at him, kind of perplexed, as
did the other coaches. "You did it! We got 3rd!" All
of the coaches jumped; Bela, Nunno, and Tom hugged, and
I think I actually saw Bela cry! I'll have to check my
picture, after I get it developed. The coaches seemed
more happy than the gymnasts.) The men should also be
proud of their performances. They hit compulsories, and
were okay in optionals, but were just out-performed.
Still, 9th is good, especially since so many people didn't
think they would qualify for Atlanta.
Puerto Rico and Atlanta should be exciting.

Lani.

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 14:52:02 EST-11
From: ***@DISINFORMATION.BF.RMIT.EDU.AU
Subject: Romanians

I personally think the Romanians are great and some of my favourite
all time gymnasts have been Romanians eg Silivas, Pasca. But Gina
Gogean IS VERY BORING as a gymnast. I don't think she has changed
her routines since Barcelona, except maybe for a coupla moves here
and there.

Actually, the first time I saw Gogean perform (92 Europeans) she did
a great bars routine that included a Kim salto. But I've never seen
her do it since. I've also heard that she does a FF full on beam,
but only in exhibitions.

Whenever I watch gym on tele I view Gogean's performances as the time
for a break. BORING, BORING, BORING. And this is coming from
someone who can watch gym for hours on end.

The only reason Gogean gets the big scores is because she's a name.
She has to be the most undeserving European champion ever. And was
the difference between her and Miller at 93 Worlds really only 0.07?
NOT!!!

Simone.

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 03:08:45 -0400
From: ***@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject: Gogean

First of all, I apologize to everyone who was offended by my comment about
Gogean's teeth. It was NOT meant as a personal attack on her. It was partly an
attempt at humor and partly true curiosity. The fact is that Boginskaya never
used to smile and the reason for it was she was embarrassed about her teeth. So
I was just wondering if the same might be true of Gogean. In no way, shape or
form do I blame any gymnast for having bad teeth. It is not their fault that
dentistry isn't as developed in their countries as it is in the West. But the
fact remains that there are *numerous* gymnasts who tend not to smile or who
will only smile with their mouths closed because they are self-conscious about
their teeth. I know of several Russians and Ukrainians in this situation. But
it doesn't say anything about their gymnastics. I personally wish Gina would
smile more, since she has lovely teeth and a smile would definitely add some
personality to her gymnastics and perhaps gain her some fans. Just look at how
many people who used to dislike Boginskaya have decided they like her now. Why?
Because now she smiles.

Beth

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 10:49:00 -0400
From: ***@UNHF.UNH.EDU
Subject: Networking gymnasts

Is there anyone on this list who has a daughter in competitive gymnastics or
knows of one who would be interested in networking via e-mail with my 9 year
old (Level 5) daughter? She has just discovered the wonders of communicating
via e-mail, and would like to hear from others her age or in her sport.
Please e-mail me directly,

Lynanne

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 11:07:39 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Criticism discussion...AGAIN

Regarding Gina Gogean, I think that you guys are being way too critical.
Afterall, you make it sound that she hasn't worked as hard to get where she
is, which she definitely did. Maybe she thinks that smiling would detract
from her seriousness. Maybe she concentrates so hard that she forgets to
smile. Either way, she is still a great gymnast and does not deserve to be
picked on.

gymnastically yours,
Alex

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 13:12:32 EDT
From: ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: Gym for sale

Successful gymnastics school in sunny south Florida for sale.

10 years in same facility. Nice area and good frontage.

3,300 sq. ft. with boys and girls equipment.

Recreation, preschool, cheer, b-day parties, competitive girls level
2 & 4, competitive boys class 6 & 7.

For more info. contact Ron at 722-0205.

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 11:07:29 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Tv. Alert!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi!!!!!!

This morning while we were eating breakfast the tv. was on and all of a
sudden a shot of Christy Henrich on the bars and beam flashed up and
there was an advertisement about a story on Hard Copy Monday on NBC I
think it is on at 7:00 or maybe 7:30. You'll have to check. Since it is
a tabloid news show whatever it says is probably way off from the truth
but I think it would be interesting to hear what they say. Well, we
better go now!! BYE!!!!


Your fellow GYMNers,
Margi and Mardi :)

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 20:38:27 GMT
From: ***@TPONE.TELEPAC.PT
Subject: Re: Gogean

>Just look at how
>many people who used to dislike Boginskaya have decided they like her now.
>Why?
>Because now she smiles.

Now I am really curiously about that.
I sincerely thought people would apreciate a gymnast for her performance
not her smile.
Could you please explain yourself on what in hell does a smile improve a
gymnast performance?

Or do you rather enjoy a gymnastics show than a gymnastics performance?
The shoes must go on or gymnasts are supposed to improve their performance?

Greetings from a curiously gymnastics enthusiast

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:13:33 -0500
From: ***@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: emotions

I agree that the US girls are "fake" when it comes to showing
their emotions toward one another. The only time they rally see
each other is when it is time to compete for the country. Most of
the other teams train and live together. I would imagine that the
US team would be the top team in the world if they lived and trained
the way some of the other top teams do (Romania, China, Russia).

Gymnastically Yours,
Aaron

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:20:25 -0500
From: ***@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: AA Comp.

I just watched the AA competition on ABC. It was pretty good. I was
surprised to see so many mistakes. Especially Mo Huilan's beam dismount.
I feel that her fall costed her the AA gold. I was glad to see Dominique
Moceanu and Kerri Strug do so well. I felt bad for Shannon Miller, but I
was glad to see her compete never the less. Just think if Moceanu had
her nerves under control on beam...and if she hadn't stepped out of bounds
on floor...I was extremely happy to see Svetlana Khorkina do so well. She
is absolutely fantastic as a competitor and to watch in general. She always
smiles, no matter how well she does. Did you hear you little scream when her
bar score was posted...it is great to seee he enthusiasm...and the emotions
from Pod. and Milo. The 1996 Atlanta Olympics are becoming harder to
predict with every competition.

...Yours,
Aaron

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 18:32:02 -0400
From: ***@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU
Subject: Re: AA Comp.

This is my two cents on the AA not a direct reply to Aaron. Boy am I
going to get flame broiled. I completely disagree with the AA results.
IMHO 1 should have gone to Khorkina. Aside from the one error on floor
she had a wonderful competition. I would have given 2 to Amanar. I felt
she was way underscored in vault and floor. How does a 9.912 routine
become a 9.7something routine overnight. And how does a stuck 10.0 value
vault, with good form in the air, rate in at 9.7 ish... I was very
dissapointed. I would have given 3 to Pods definitely. I really like
this gymnast but I felt her score on bars, beam, and possibly floor were
overrated. That was a huge form break on beam, she had two breaks in the
bar set (jaeger and dismount), and a couple of akward landings on floor,
one in particular which I don't remeber the exact pass... it was a clear
shuffle. And her last pass was very obviously labored. As much as I
love Milo and always will I don't feel she should have medaled in this
particular meet. The bars and beam work were simply too blah, done with
an eye on the code of points... 4th sure... but bronze ahead of Amanar
(shakes head). Mo's fall was a shame. I would love to see how she would
have stacked up to the rest of these athletes without a fall. And I have
a

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 18:34:40 -0400
From: ***@CLARK.NET
Subject: Re: emotions

<snip> I would imagine that the
>US team would be the top team in the world if they lived and trained
>the way some of the other top teams do (Romania, China, Russia).
>
Dunno about that. Karolyi's girls live(d) and train(ed) together and that
didn't/doesn't seem to make much of a difference during the competition.
Vicki

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 20:39:55 -0400
From: ***@DELPHI.COM
Subject: America's Best Videos

Dear Gymners,

I know this seems petty, but does anyone know why they don't use the
gymnast's real floor music when they show floor routines on the America's
Best Videos and Superstars of Gymnastics Video? I was watching them today,
and realized it was really annoying to watch a routine that you know and
then hear some weird music! Anyone else share my feelings? Any answers?

Gymnastically Yours,
Dave :)

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 19:50:39 -0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject: Women's All-Around

Date sent: 15-OCT-1995 19:37:41

OK, likewise, I suspect this might be flame-broil also, but I can't keep
my mouth shut. Sorry. :)

>From what I saw, I think the all-around results were almost right on. I
had some slight complaints about Kerri Strug's bars and floor scores
(especially since Kerri had her legs glued together on her cast handstands
for the first time I've seen this year and her floor set rocked) but in the
overall view of things, they were ok, and she really had a great
competition. Strug aside, I think the scores for everyone were almost
totally accurate. The judges were awarding athletes who ignored some of
the "Cheap" code rules and went for variety, and took deductions where
they were warranted. Khorkina could've won, sure, but downgrading that last
pass from a triple to a double twist probably screwed her start value (E to
a B), and other than that, her scores were great. As for Podkopayeva being
overscored, I dunno. I think her bars score was a little high, but the
rest were right on. Her beam score had one break, how much more can you
penalize her?As for Milosovici, she hit reasonably well. I think it is
interesting to note her weakest event was vault, where normally it has
been her strongest. Amanar, in my honest opinion, was overscored in the
team competition on floor, anyhow, so...even the annoucners acknowledged
her floor choreopgrahy is weak. Her beam set was probably OVERSCORED in
the AA finals. I mean, she had two wobbles, a big step on her double tuck,
and the rest of the routine was very tentative (she barely got her feet off
the beam on her jumps).

I think a huge point that needs to be made are the amount of mistakes that
were made. Miller had problems on bars on a move that I doubt she has ever
missed, Mo sat down her beam dismount, Khrokina popped her triple twist to
a double, Gogean collapsed on bars...and the list goes on and on, I'm sure.
The top athletes in Sabe were the ones who avoided mistakes. I think the
standing reflected that, nothing more.

Two final thoughts:my early complaint about the Romanians being overscored
in comparison to everyone else was evened out in the AA finals, at least
from what I saw. And the emotions that were displayed really hit me hard.
Milosovici crying really hit me hard. She has pushed herself to remain at
the top, and yet she can't break through. Pods hit finally, and realized
it, and Khorkina knows what she achieved.

That's it. Though I still cannot get over Strug's bars routine. Having
watched it three times prior this year, her legs were finally together. She
has finally gotten it together. And Miller's guts have to be admired as
well. The respect she has gotten from so many people after last week...and
the Chinese...and Milosovici trying so hard...and Pods finally breaking
through....*giggle* Can you tell I thought the meet was terrific? :)

Now, the push to Atlanta begins...

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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 20:54:16 -0400
From: ***@DELPHI.COM
Subject: BART CONNOR

Dear Gymners,

Throughout ABC's coverage of Sabae, I've noticed that Bart Connnor's
comments and commentary of certain gymnasts has been quite rude and uncalled
for. He cuts gymnasts down because of their style, difficulty, execution,
and past performances. I first noticed this at the World team trials. Has
anyone else noticed this? Does anyone agree?

Gymnastically yours,
dave :)

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 14 Oct 1995 to 15 Oct 1995 - Special issue
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