GYMN-L Digest - 7 Dec 1995 to 8 Dec 1995 - Special issue

There are 34 messages totalling 1011 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

1. Introduction
2. IG (4)
3. December Calendar
4. Canadian team and Atlanta (4)
5. British Club Question
6. Quad twist
7. Deltchev vs. Gienger (5)
8. *the book*
9. Floor Exercise Questions
10. Junior Olympics
11. Deltchev and Gienger
12. Auburn Gymnastics
13. French Meet
14. <No subject given>
15. An intro.
16. Moceanu's leap (2)
17. Delchev vs. Gienger
18. VAULT QUESTIONS
19. Turning off Gymn during holidays
20. Break
21. Current Talk: IG's lack of International Information, etc
22. The Book (was Re: Deltchev vs. Gienger)
23. ...unsubscribing

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:53:45 WST
From: ***@WAIS.BEKKERS.COM.AU
Subject: Introduction

G'Day from Western Australia,

We have had Email for the past week so I think it is about time I sent
my introduction to Gymn. My name is Peter and I am the
Assistant Coach at the Western Australian Institute of Sport, Men's
Gymnastics Program.

We have both a Men's and Women's Gymnastics program at WAIS which has
been operational for the past 7 years. We offer elite gymnastics only
ranging from ages 7 through to Senior level. All told we have approx
90 - 100 elite gymnasts within our program. Our program run's from the
Perth Superdrome (the venue for the 1991 and 1998 World Swimming
Championships) which is located in the central suburban district of
Mount Claremont, approximently 10min from the city and about 2 min
from the beach (which is great during summer). Our gym is fairly small
about 25 x 40m but produces great gymnasts.

Our coaching staff is highly regarded, consisting of 14 coaches,
headed by Andrei Rodionenko (former Head Coach of the Soviet Union).
We have three other ex - soviet coaches plus one more coming soon. The
rest of us are Australian.

We have several Australian Junior and Senior team members training at
WAIS Gym. Jenny Smith (Australia's top senior girl who unfortunately
missed Worlds this year due to an ankle injury one day before prelim's
in Sabae), David Schneider (Australia's best Junior boy who just
competed at the All Japan Junior Invitational in Tokyo) and other up
and coming gymnasts such as Sarah Prosser and Jamie Osborne (both
Australian junior squad members).

I am responsible for coaching the Junior Men at WAIS (14 - 15 yrs) and
administration of the Men's Program. Now that I have got this EMail
program I am also to provide updates etc to other coaches on results
etc. I am also very interested in Russian training methodology and
techniques. I enjoy this very much as alot of what we think happened
in the soviet bloc is total garbage. So if anyone would like to
discuss things in this nature just EMAIL me. I am also a qualified
National Judge and I am part way through my science degree at
university.

If there is anything that you would like to discuss or information
that you would like about Australian Gymnasts, Programs, Coaches etc
etc then don't hesitate to get in contact with me.

Regards,


Pete.

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:13:15 -0500
From: ***@EAGLE.LHUP.EDU
Subject: Re: IG

Several have people have brought up some good points about IG. Maybe
Nancy Raymond (who I believe is a subscriber on Gymn) could shed some
light as to the characteristics of their readership and what the
philosophy of IG is. If they have done a readership survey and got a
pro-American, children appeal then they probably realized that appealing
to this audience will keep their business afloat.

I agree with a lot of what people on this list server say about what
appeals to them (golf??-come on!) but I will stand by my first statement
of this a capitalist society and business is business.

As for the technical side, USA Gymnastics sends two publications to its
professional members, one is USA Gymnastics (which really appeals more to
children) and the other is Technique Magazine which is an excellent
source of updates in the rules, biomechanical info and the like. I
reccomend it highly.


Happy reading!

Julie

> I think it is wrong to assume that because the majority of subscribers are
> from the US they would want to see mostly US coverage. I know that isn't
> true for me and I would imagine others feel the same. I was definitely
> disappointed in the golf article, too, and of course I am still upset
> every month to encounter the negativism displayed in the editorial column.
> I keep wondering about how young gymnasts everywhere must feel when (if)
> they read Ziert's harsh commentary, and what kind of impression it is
> leaving them with as they participate in the sport.
>
> On another (yet related) note, I have wondered whether IG is trying too
> hard to appeal to a diverse audience in terms of age (younger kids through
> adults). I don't subscribe to USA Gymnastics' magazine and maybe that's
> more age-specific, but I know I often feel that the writing in the IG
> articles could be much more extensive, complex and analytical (if people
> were interested). I'm aware that financially it makes no sense to branch
> off into two, but it's still good to think about...
>
> Finally, the photography in the December issue was beautiful, I thought,
> and the quality of Dave Black's seemed especially impressive (although
> not to take away from the others). Lilia Podkapaeva looks like Superwoman!
>
> Cheers-
>
> Rebecca
>
>
> > While you have a point regarding the "international aspect", the majority
> > of subscribers are from the US and unfortunately for the forgein
> > subscribers business is business.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> > > In my opinion, IG really needs to establish some contacts
> > > abroad and change its current philosophy in order to deserve
> > > the name "International".
> > >
> > > The November issue looked like this:
> > >
> > > Coverage: US gymnast
> > > Pages 4-5: US gymnast picture
> > > 6: International (no pictures)
> > > 7: 1/2 US gymnast picture + US letters
> > > 8-22 (!!!!): US World Team Trials. My objections: 1) 15
> > > pages!!! 2) They were only *trials*!! 3) All other
> > > countries have trials, too. They aren't coveraged at
> > > all. The US coverage of *15* pages included *5* 1/1
> > > and one 2/3 color pictures!!
> > > 24-27: International (3 out of 8 pictures US gymnasts)
> > > Center: US gymnast color poster
> > > 31: 1/2 page international (no picts)
> > > 32: 1/2 page international (no picts)
> > > 36-37: Story on US coaches, quite unknown and with no
> > > particular coaching success. Boring!!
> > > 38-39: IG People - EVERYTHING ON AMERICANS
> > > 40-41: Finally, the one and only article on an non-US
> > > gymnast (Lisenko), but then of course she's living
> > > in the US now...
> > > 43: Bart and Nadia
> > > 44-45: US movies
> > > 46-49: BART CONNER GOLF!!!! 4 whole pages, 15 color
> > > pictures!!!!!!!!! Bart might be an important person
> > > in the American gymnastics community, but does he
> > > really deserve articles in *every* IG issue?!? Is
> > > fundraising golf for Oklahoma's youth worth 4 pages
> > > and numerous pictures in an international magazine??
> > > OUTRAGEOUS!
> > > 51: Bela
> > >
> > > What do you all think about this? Most of you on this list
> > > are Americans (I'm not) - do you feel the same way as I
> > > feel?
> > >
> > > Luckily, the December issue covers the Worlds, so maybe
> > > I won't be so mad when I get it...
> > >
> > >
> > > / Anja
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 00:18:38 +1100
From: ***@ENTERNET.COM.AU
Subject: Re: December Calendar

December 1995
S M Tu W Th F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
>18-22 Junior International/ Canberra, Australia

Thought I'd unlurk for a few minutes.

Is there no Aloha Gymfest on in Hawaii this year. Louise made the Aussie
team and has not heard a thing from the Aust. Gym Fed. (Tho this does not
surprise me, they are a bit slack.) Besides she wasn't going to go anyway.
Just wondering tho'.

Also, I will be on the Score table for the Junior International here in
Canberra on the nights of 19 and 20 Dec. Don't know if I'll get to see much
action but will hopefully post the scores each night when I get home.

All the best to everyone for XMAS.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:06:42 -0400
From: ***@CAPITALNET.COM
Subject: Re: Canadian team and Atlanta

Anne wrote:
>I just realized that the Canadian women's team didn't place in the top 12 at
>Worlds. That means they are not going to Atlanta, doesn't it? Any fellow
>Canadians want to comment on that? I'm a bit upset!

Same with the men... :^(

We are allowed to send up to three men and three women to the Olympics to
compete as individuals. However, (this is the downer...) the Canadian
Olympic Association standard says that we can only send individuals who
have placed in the top 18 on something at a World Championships. So far,
only Kris Burley has met this with a high placement on floor at a previous
Worlds (not Sabae).

The only remaining chance to get more athletes to Atlanta is the Apparatus
Worlds in April in Puerto Rico. Selection activity by GCG for AppWorlds
takes place during February 22-24 for men (Elite Canada) and March 15-17
for women.

Any athletes that do get to Atlanta compete in *at least* competition 1a & 1b.

We'll see...

Regards,

Grace

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:24:55 -0700
From: ***@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA
Subject: British Club Question

We have a small group of athletes visiting & training with us at
Ortona Gymnastics Club in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada during the first 2
weeks of January. They are from Pinewood Gymnastics Club in Wokingham,
Berks. I am co-ordinating their out of training activities and would
welcome any comments on either that or about their club in general.
Please E-mail me at the address below.
Thank-you.
Jai

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:07:57 -0500
From: ***@MOOSE.UVM.EDU
Subject: Re: Quad twist

Wow!!!!! A quad twist! That must be amazing to watch!

Jennifer


> Jeff asked if anyone has done a quad twist. Yes, michelle Dussere ( SCATS )
> did one but never competed it. My Gymnast Karissa Chock ( Jr. International)
> also has done it ( on a floor, not a pit ) in our gym and at SCATS ( for Don
> Peters, Michelle's coach. He was tickeled!) She has grown a couple of inches
> in the last year and is struggling a bit with it now. I even haad it
> evaluated ( yes, it's an "E".) It is a very sensative skill and while not
> that hard to perform, it has proven difficult to train it in routines, so
> she may never get to use it, we'll see....
> bjcorr@delphi.com
>

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:44:48 -0800
From: ***@ENG.SUN.COM
Subject: Deltchev vs. Gienger

Know they're different. Certainly *look* different. But the other day
someone asked me to describe them. I came up with the exact same
description for each. Best that I could come up with that differentiated
the two was that the Deltchev`s salto was "more like a real salto, since
you've already done the half twist..."

Could some kind soul give a description of these two skills that highlight
their differences? They appear to involve the same amount of twisting.

-George

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:12:39 -0400
From: ***@VMS.CIS.PITT.EDU
Subject: *the book*

I just read *the book* only because hearing about it on this forum made me
curious. Anyway, I agree that it is completely one sided and I feel that it is
as close to tabloid journalism as it is possible to get without calling it the
"Nat'l Inquirer of Gym" anyway, am I just completely uneducated about gym or is
Karolyi's wife named Marta not Martha? If I am wrong, oh well, but if her name
*is* Marta, then that woman misspelled it the whole way through the book.
LeeAnne

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:18:09 -0700
From: ***@SUPERNET.AB.CA
Subject: Re: Canadian team and Atlanta

>I just realized that the Canadian women's team didn't place in the top 12 at
>Worlds. That means they are not going to Atlanta, doesn't it? Any fellow
>Canadians want to comment on that? I'm a bit upset!

I must say I was disappointed. I thought that our team has been through
lots over the past few years. During past worlds and Olympics, we were
short one team member. We always had to count 5 scores out of 5, or 6 for
6. But now we had all our memebers. I don't know what to say other than,
we need to get our training in gear!

Kel
------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:25:27 CDT
From: ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Deltchev vs. Gienger


> Know they're different. Certainly *look* different. But the other day
> someone asked me to describe them. I came up with the exact same
> description for each. Best that I could come up with that differentiated
> the two was that the Deltchev`s salto was "more like a real salto, since
> you've already done the half twist..."
>
> Could some kind soul give a description of these two skills that highlight
> their differences? They appear to involve the same amount of twisting.
>
> -George
>
A Delchev is a half twist to FRONT flip recatch. A Gienger is a BACK
flip with half twist recatch. They are totally different.

Shawn

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 14:04:38 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Floor Exercise Questions

The Mostepanova or Jump forward with 1/1 twist handspring forward is a C
element. It is #7.303 in the Code.

The arabian front handspring is still rated in the Code on Floor Exercise. It
is an A element. (#7.110)

Myra

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:19:04 -0800
From: ***@ENG.SUN.COM
Subject: Re: Deltchev vs. Gienger

Shawn writes:

A Delchev is a half twist to FRONT flip recatch. A Gienger is a BACK
flip with half twist recatch. They are totally different.

Yes, they surely *look* different. But how do they feel? A half twist
and front somi really isn't that much different mechanically from a
back somi and half twist, if you get my meaning.

So, how are they really different? i.e. the specific mechanics: The set,
the motion from the tap, the point of release.

Any gymnasts out there that have performed both skills care to elaborate?

-George

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 14:23:44 -0500
From: ***@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: IG

I am a new subscriber to IG, but have about 4 issues of it. I do agree
that there is a lot of US coverage...I feel that a few reasons why is
that for one, it is based here in the US, another reason is there have
been quite a few "big" meets here recently (Visa Challenge, Budget
Invitational, Nationals, World Team Trials, IBM, Junior Olympics, etc.).
I know that really isn't an excuse, but we don't know their story. Maybe
the reports that they have received from international competitions in
the past have begun to "go down hill". Also, the "Bart Connor thing", he
is the assisstant publisher or something isn't he. I heard that he is a
part owner of IG now....I'm not sure. I agree that the Bart Connor golf
article seemed a little inappropriate for IG, but maybe they think that
Nadia makes it "international". I was extremely pleased with the
December issue....the poster was a pleasant surprise. I think everyone
may have expected Pod to be on the poster, but I like the idea of Mo
being picked instead....Just my opinions.
Gymnly Yours,
Aaron

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 14:27:08 -0500
From: ***@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Junior Olympics

I have been meaning to ask some questions about this for a long time
now....do some of the "stars" of the J.O. have a chance at becoming elite
international stars, pareticularly the 9-12 year olds. Are there any US
gymnasts now that made an "appearance" at the J.O. and are now top
gymnasts in the national scene? Marline Stephens caught my eye and so
did Cami Singer....the older girls, 17+, are going to be some great
college stars if they compete. Your comments are appreciated!
Aaron

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:07:55 -0500
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Deltchev and Gienger

Both of these release moves are flyaways with half twist to regrasp.
The difference between the two is that a Deltchev is straddled. A Gienger is
done with legs together.
Chris.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 14:20:43 CDT
From: ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: Auburn Gymnastics

For those interested, Auburn gymnast Barbie Andrzejewski was forced
to retire because of injuries. Becky Erwin is at 100% after her
season ending injury last year and powerhouse Stacey Newman is at
98%, according to the coach. Auburn lost their top 3 gymnasts last
year in the first 3 meets. Good luck to them.

Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 14:49:10 -0500
From: ***@PHOENIX.PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: French Meet

I was just looking at the gymn web page and found the results from a
recent French Meet dominated by Gogean and Milosovichi. I found USA team
members Kulikowski and Maloney listed in two event finals, but I was
wondering if it is known how they did in the AA. Were there other
members of the US delegation? If so, how did they do?
-Emily

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:50:52 -0500
From: ***@MOOSE.UVM.EDU
Subject: <No subject given>

I saw that someone on the forum asked if there is a way to shut down
their suscription to this forum because they wouldn't be there for a
while. I will not be here from the 16th of december to the 16th of
january because we have our winter break for school. Is it possible to do
this? Please let me know. I would like to come back after my break is
over, but for that monthe there is no way for me to check messages and
stuff like that. I would really appreciate it if someone could tell me
what to do in this situation. Thanks!


Jennifer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:10:45 -0800
From: ***@TELEPORT.COM
Subject: An intro.

Hi!

I've been lurking for quite some time, and finally decided to introduce
myself. I'm 25, and started taking adult gymnastics classes off and on
about five years ago, once or twice a week. I can do some simple things
on floor (like RO/BH, and punch front), and am just starting to explore
rings and p-bars. I love the feeling of making progress and gaining
control in the air, and I hope to stay with it a long time. My overall
goal is to put together a juggling routine with three small soccer balls
incorporating various handstands and strength moves. I should mention
that I'm self-employed as a juggling equipment vendor/juggler/math tutor.

My favorite things to watch are floor ex. (for the sensation of flying),
and rhythmic (especially group, when I can find it), for its similarity
to juggling. The main inspiration for taking my first class came from
watching Boginskaya's Carmen routine on tv in '89. I catch all the
televised events that I can, and am excited to see that the Reese's Cup
is going to be in Portland again.

I'm enjoying all of the personal perspectives and technical info on
gymn. Thanks for reading!

-Ben

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:03:43 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Moceanu's leap

This was asked a few months ago but I never heard an answer. Does anyone
understand why Moceanu does that vertical jump at the end of her middle pass
on floor? Does simply jumping straight up in the air add bonus? Couldn't it
be considered a deduction, like a hop on a landing?
Just curious,
Liz

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:17:32 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Deltchev vs. Gienger

>Best that I could come up with that differentiated
>the two was that the Deltchev`s salto was "more like a real salto, since
>you've already done the half twist..."Deltchev performed his salto out of
front giants - a >true front flip.

George - Deltchev performed his salto from front (undergrip) giants as a
"true" front salto. From my observations, female gymnasts started doing the
skill from back giants with a half turn through the bottom of the swing to
perform a front, usually straddled flip.
Eberhard Gienger performed his salto from back giants releasing as a late
flyaway, half-turn to a regrasp. I believe both saltos were introduced
around 1978. Can anyone shed more light on the dates, place, etc. or add to
the description?
Karl

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:23:45 -0600
From: ***@MINN.NET
Subject: IG

Dear Gymners,
I was also suprised at the golf artical in IG. I admit to having
just skimmed it because as soon as I saw the pictures of people golfing, I
knew it counldn't be too thrilling.
And, I couldn't believe that they made a poster of Mo insted of Pod.
I mean, come on IG! Lilia is the world champion, not Mo! Don't get me wrong,
Mo is one of my favorites, but I thought for sure that IG would do one of
Lilia. ( Not to mention, the poster itself was terrible of Mo- the photo was
taken from a really bad angle so you could hardly tell what she was doing).
Did anyone else notice that they devoted virtually no tome to
women's event finals?


- Julie

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:42:11 CDT
From: ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: Delchev vs. Gienger

George wanted me to pass this along, no prob.

| The feeling is totally different. For the Delchev it is a definite
| half twist and then a definite forward flip. As for the Gienger that
| half twist kind of floats during the back half. The idea for Delchev
| is to drive your heels/feet upward towards the ceiling, ,kind of
| quickly, then relese and half twist, ect... As for the Gienger, the
| tap is not as strong and your feet aren't aimed at the ceiling as
| much. It's more of a floaty move, you must be more aggressive with
| the Delchev. Yelena Piskun does a Delchev, if you saw here this past
| weekend at Atlanta Invite. The taps occur about the same time but
| more aggressive for the Del.
That's the way I was taught it and that's the way it felt.

Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:43:38 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: VAULT QUESTIONS

NOTE: These questions pertain to WOMEN'S VAULT *ONLY*. I know that men \
may have performed some of these skills, but I shall get to Men's events
next week. :)

1)Anyone seen a front somersault off the board to the horse?

2)Anyone seen more than a full twist onto the horse from the
board?

3)Anyone seen Davidova or another gymnast actually land the full
on front off vault?

4)Can women do one arm vaults? Are they valued higher than the
two arm version?

5)Are side somersaulting vaults allowed provided the gymnnast
lands both feet at the same time?

6)What is the highest rated vault with only involves twisting and
no somersaulting?

7)Who is credited with performing the first tsukahara vault?

8)Who has seen a gymnast perform a hect back somi vault?

9)Who was the first gymnast to perform a handspring double
front vault?

and 10)Anyone seen a gymnast perform more than two twist (pre and
and post flight combined) in a vault?

Thanks...This has been very informative and I will ask my questions about
the Men's events next week. Thank you ALL for your input. I have enjoyed
reading about how knowledgible the people on this list are (an how out
of date I am at times!)

Jeff

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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:49:03 -0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Turning off Gymn during holidays

If you are going to be leaving your email account for an extended
amount of time, such as upcoming school vacation/holiday, and would
like to turn off Gymn for that time:

To turn off your Gymn mail:

1. Send mail to listserv@psuvm.psu.edu
2. Leave the subject blank.
3. In the body, type: "SET GYMN-L NOMAIL"

To turn your Gymn mail back on upon returning:

1. See above
2. See above
3. In tye body, type: "SET GYMN-L MAIL"

--------

Also, a friendly reminder: please note that in Gymn's netiquette
guidelines, we ask subscribers to not post holiday messages to the
forum. We have received complaints about this in the past and would
really appreciate consideration and cooperation from all Gymners. We
are an international forum, and not everyone shares your same holidays
and religion. Please avoid a difficult situation for we three Gymn
Admin by directing your yuletide greetings in personal email to your
friends versus spreading your joy to all of Gymn through the listserv.

Thanks!

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 18:04:55 -0500
From: ***@SOL.EECS.USMA.EDU
Subject: Break

I have noticed that several people would liek to discontinue their =
subscription during their Christmas break. There are two options that =
you can take. The first (and the one that I will use) is to change your =
subscription from mail to digest. Digest format will simply store up =
all of the messages from one day and place them into one single large =
message. This will keep you from having a million mesages when you get =
back and it will keep you from missing all of the great conversation =
while you were away. To change from mail to digest format just send a =
message to listserv@psuvm.psu.edu. Leave the subject blank. In the =
body of the message put "set gymn-l digest" with out the quotes.

If you would like to quit the list server follow the same procedure as =
above but put "unsubscribe gymn-l" in the body of the message. Again =
don't put the quotes in the message.


Hope this helps.
/\/\ike

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:49:36 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Deltchev vs. Gienger

i apologize for forwarding the message about the book, I accidentily clicked
ohn send. I have two things to say:

1. About the book, I think that everyone should just lay off. I
think that Ryan was a good writer, and portrayed the facts about the sport
that she did say very well. Maybe you all are just sensitive because you
know that some of it has to be true, I mean we all know that Jullissa Gomez
died because of a gymnastics skill on the vault...and are you going to call
her former coaches and teammates liars. All the gymnasts on the list
(including me) know the pressure of keeping your weight down...are you going
to say to Christy Henrich's boyfriend that gymnastics had nothing to do with
her anorexia, and that her coaches were totally supportive.

2. About the whole Gienger Delchev thing. I have never been
able to really catch a Deltchev safely and consistently enough to really do
it correctly, but to me it feels very different than a Gienger, a skill by
the way I used to perform (before I quit). It's all in the tap, and more
importantly the twist. It's hard to describe, but a Deltchev feels like your
"falling" forward while a Gienger you feel the bar just come to you. In a
Deltchev it is harder to get height, because the twist slows down your
momentum. In the Gienger you flip first, which gives you heiht and turn at
the end, and you "float" down to the bar.

Hope I could help

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:01:26 -0500
From: ***@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject: IG

Well, like everyone else, I wish there more international coverage in IG,
but I think people have to realize that it has a very small staff and can't
send reporters to every meet, especially ones abroad. As far as I know, they
don't even send someone to every meet held in the US - they often have to rely
on people in the area of the competition to send them results and photos. It is
certainly beyond their budget to send anyone to Chunichi Cup every year, for
example. I was once told that the write-ups on that meet (and others in Japan)
are based on what is shown on Japanese TV. So IG has to rely on someone in
Japan to send them a tape. If they don't receive a tape, they can't write an
article describing the routines. I know they get a lot of GREAT photos from
European meets from Eileen Langsley in Britain, but coverage might be more
thorough if someone in Europe could send them a tape of Eurosport's broadcasts
of meets. I am fairly certain that if Europeans sent in reports and photos from
competitions held abroad, IG would use them. I've sent in info about the
ex-Sovs that I read in Sovetsky Sport and it gets used. (And as an aside, this
newspaper prints VERY little about gymnastics, especially when the Russians
don't win. The only meets it has covered this year are Russian Nationals and
the World Championships. There has been *nothing* about the other ex-Sov
countries, nothing about the pre-Olympics, and not even any profile on Lilia.
Why? This paper is published in Russia, and she's Ukrainian... So anyway, my
point is, if a gymnastic powerhouse country like Russia doesn't even report on
gymnastics in its own sports newspaper, how can IG be expected to get info
about meets in Russia?)
As for the poster in the November issue, it's very possible that there
wasn't a shot of Lilia that could be blown up that large and still be in focus,
etc. A photographer once told me that only a select few slide-film photos are
of high enough quality to be made into posters. I remember a similar complaint
from a 1977 back issue of IG. Teodora Ungureanu won Champions All, while Nadia
competed exhibition. In IG's coverage, they had a poster of Nadia. Someone
wrote in and was mad about this, and the explanation for it was that no one had
sent any good-quality color slide photos of Teodora to IG. But someone had sent
shots of Nadia. The magazine has to take what it gets from photographers,
writers, etc. when it is unable to send a reporter or photographer itself. I
would love to see more international coverage, and I think it could happen if
people outside the US sent in results and photos. There *are* precedents - the
great behind-the-scenes stories about Round Lake in Russia and about the
Romanians, etc. But these were possible because people fortunate enough to be
in Russia and Romania and have access to the gymnasts made the effort to take
photos and write up some stories.
Just my thoughts.

Beth

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:02:13 -0500
From: ***@PO-BOX.MCGILL.CA
Subject: Re: Current Talk: IG's lack of International Information, etc

Of course, I more than once expressed my opinion to IG for their readers'
pages. Unfortunately, since my opinion differed from the trend IG was taking,
it was never published.

I welcome the coverage of the sport the 'new & improved' IG team is bringing
to the media. I once had to wait a few months to see a mere = hr of edited
routines of only the few gymnasts who had medalled. Quite incomplete and very
disappointing, especially in the view that the commentator was a former
gymnast who, I had hoped, would know better. Now, I enjoy watching meets
within a few days of their occurence.

With Paul Ziert's take-over of IG, new trends have been set with all their
pros & cons. I was nevertheless quite shocked to realize that the reason why
my opinions would probably never get published into IG was that it differed
from the editors' point of view. If IG wants to serve as a medium for the
gymnastics community (athletes, coaches, and fans), it should accept views
that may disagree with their own.

In 1996, I will reach a 20-yr history of IG subscription and I have seen good
and not-so-good trends come & go. I hope that the IG staff keep their options
open and will respond to the wishes of their subscribers.

I am personnally against making superstars out of gymnasts; it puts too much
pressure on their shoulders and some of them may stop training because they
like it and start training in order to meet everybody's expectations.
However, the only superstar of this server for me will always remain the sport
of gymnastics. When it comes to making the sport more popular and better
known (and therefore appreciated), I am all for it. Let's focus on the sport
for a change and stop putting personnalities in the limelight. I am always
bitter when they present a profile of a gymnast on TV showing that gymnast
eating breakfast cereal or sleeping in a car. That is not interesting !!!
What is interesting to me is our mutual point of interest: gymnastics. What
is their view of the sport? How do they train ? Is it any different from how
other successful athletes train? If so, how? That's what I want to see and
hear.

Same thing goes with the videotapes on sale. ABC's superstars video was a
bomb as far as I am concerned. First, it contained a non-negligeable number
of errors for the women's stats. Second, they kept cutting routines and
showing only portions of them while telling me that this was probably the best
performance of this or that gymnast. If that is the case, show me the whole
thing and let *me* judge. I do not want to take another person's opinion for
granted. I want to make *my own opinion*. I want the facts, all of the facts
relevant for me to make a valuable judgement. BTW, one big disappointment:
One of the best IG article EVER was the one in the May 1979 issue abt Nadia's
beam performance on the team competition of the Forth Worth World's
Championships. I have never actually *seen* that routine. It has been
described extensively, but what are words when what you want to see is a
picture ? I bought the ABC's video expecting all those pre-VCR years to be
presented to me as if I had been there. Well, the video did not show this
very important routine which, I am told, was the cornerstone of the first team
gold medal ever won by any country other than the USSR. Instead, most of the
time, I have to listen to a commentator trying to convince me that a
particular routine was worth watching and was history in the making while I
was shown few seconds of the beginning and the end of the routine in question.
Talk abt a big gap of information. Moreover, I can't believe that their
coverage of Nadia did not go beyond the 1976 Olympic Games !! Not a word abt
the next following years where Nadia kept being on top of her sport ! What a
shame !

Anyway, I do expect more of knowledgeable people than from the media lay-men.
However, I get burned time after time. My wish is that they start addressing
people who follow and understand gymnastics and stop saying over & over that
the balance beam is 4-in wide: One small step for the gymnastics community, a
giant step for the sport of gymnastics.



Maria
------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:44:24 -0500
From: ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: The Book (was Re: Deltchev vs. Gienger)


> i apologize for forwarding the message about the book, I accidentily clicked
> ohn send. I have two things to say:
>
> 1. About the book, I think that everyone should just lay off. I
> think that Ryan was a good writer, and portrayed the facts about the sport
> that she did say very well. Maybe you all are just sensitive because you
> know that some of it has to be true, I mean we all know that Jullissa Gomez
> died because of a gymnastics skill on the vault...and are you going to call

That's at the very best debatable and at worst simply false. Julissa went
into a coma (and later died) because oxygen was cut off to her. Yes, she
was getting oxygen because of a gymnastics accident. But to the best of my
knowledge (and I know something about this sort of injury), had it not been
for the oxygen being cut off, she would not have died.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 22:55:06 -0500
From: ***@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: ...unsubscribing

Just so you all know, I am not "unsubscribing" until I go home for
Christmas break. I am leaving on Dec. 14, so I will probably "sign-off"
on the 13. Thanx to all the people who have already wished me happy
holidays and those who said they'll miss me. I'll miss the forum too,
but I will supplement it by watching my new gymnastics tapes that Gordon
Estes has so kindly made for me....I will be raring to go when I get back
here to school, until then, "Let the gymnastics talk comtinue"!
Gymnastically Yours,
Aaron

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 21:25:33 -0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Re: Canadian team and Atlanta

Grace said:

| compete as individuals. However, (this is the downer...) the Canadian
| Olympic Association standard says that we can only send individuals who
| have placed in the top 18 on something at a World Championships. So far,

What is the reason for this... it seems that Olympic experience would
be valuable? Is this policy very controversial in Canada? How long
has this been in effect?

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 00:54:37 -0400
From: ***@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Canadian team andAtlanta

Rachele wrote:
>Grace said:
>
>| compete as individuals. However, (this is the downer...) the Canadian
>| Olympic Association standard says that we can only send individuals who
>| have placed in the top 18 on something at a World Championships. So far,
>
>What is the reason for this... it seems that Olympic experience would
>be valuable? Is this policy very controversial in Canada? How long
>has this been in effect?

I don't know the official answers. But it seems the COA sets these
standards to ensure that their expenses are not wasted on "substandard"
(read -- no chances of medalling) performers. The PR will say that it
encourages our athletes to strive for excellence... ya de ya de ya
de...fluff... propoganda. It's rather controversial, I would say. It's
been in effect since at least '76, which was the last time we did not have
a complete men's gymn team in the Olympics. Yeah and we were even hosting
it!! The COA has failed to take into account the effect of the Soviet
breakup into n+1 new teams. I guess they figured that the re-unification
of Germany would make up for it?? I don't know anyone who presently works
for the COA... buncha dinosaurs... Now if Carol Anne Letheren (esteemed
former brevet judge from gymnastics, who had the displeasure of having to
return Ben Johnson's gold medal in '88) was still in charge at COA, maybe
we'd have a brighter story?

Sorry to inflict my jaded political views -- doesn't happen often, I assure.

Grace

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 01:23:43 -0400
From: ***@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Moceanu's lea

LizardRod (?) wrote:

>This was asked a few months ago but I never heard an answer. Does anyone
>understand why Moceanu does that vertical jump at the end of her middle pass
>on floor? Does simply jumping straight up in the air add bonus? Couldn't it
>be considered a deduction, like a hop on a landing?

Judging hat on: There is no value for a straight jump, therefore no bonus.
I'd deduct 0.1 or so if the jump looks out of control or 0.1 if she jumps
out of bounds. (And if it doesn't go with the music, I'd take off a 0.1
under rhythm & tempo.) I'd prefer to see a well-controlled landing with
sureness (which is more difficult) than a wiley jump.

Judging hat off: The first time I saw her do that I thought she was
chickening out of another salto. The second time, I realized that she
didn't have the control to properly land the prior salto (fwd layout?), so
it's probably a well-"choreographed" looks-cute-too etc. etc. add-on. The
third time I saw it, she went flying out of bounds, I think, which confirms
my control issue.

Regards,

Grace


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End of GYMN-L Digest - 7 Dec 1995 to 8 Dec 1995 - Special issue
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