GYMN-L Digest - 5 Jan 1996 to 6 Jan 1996

There are 14 messages totalling 417 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Guys who like gymnastics
2. Kim and a gymn meet
3. Recent trends in women's FX (2)
4. OLYMPIC PREDICTIONS (3)
5. Olympic Predictions (2)
6. Olympic HOPES, not predictions.
7. 1996 National Stream Cup
8. hello
9. poetry
10. <No subject given>

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:03:32 +0000
From: ***@CS.BHAM.AC.UK
Subject: Re: Guys who like gymnastics

> As I said, I would appreciate anyone's input, particularly guys
> who like gym, especially women's gym, and those who weren't "real" (ie
> competitive) gymansts themselves. Of course, women can feel free to give
> their opinions as well. Has anything like this ever come up on gymn?

I find gym great to watch (more so than trampolining - and I'm a trampoline
coach not a gymnast!) and have done since I was very young. When the World's
were at Birmingham a few years ago I went by myself and I don't think anyone
thought I was strange and perverse. If you went to a football match by
yourself would you get labeled as gay? Probably not. I say ignore others who
tease you (I get it sometimes with trampolining), they're just showing their
immaturity. Of course if you do go just to see girls in leotards...

:-)
Christian

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:14:26 -0500
From: ***@CIC.NCHE.EDU
Subject: Kim and a gymn meet

First, on the Rock n Roll Challenge, Mara, mentioned that Kim Z. had
torn her ACL (ligament in the knee) shortly after starting her
comeback, and had reconstructive surgery. Can anyone confirm this?
Since I had the same surgery, I find it truly amazing that she can
make a comeback--she wasn't even wearing a brace (which would be
cumbersome in gymnastics, but for most athletes a necessity!) It
makes what she did in the R n R Challenge even more impressive.

Second, I was just reading a travel magazine and it mentioned that
there will be a meet in Reno on January 14 at the Univ. of
Nevada--said this would be the most unusual gymnastics meet ever held
in that top female gymnasts will be competing against top male
gymnasts. Anyone know anything more about it? If you live in the
area, admission is $15-35.

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:25:29 +0600
From: ***@ZGS.COM
Subject: Recent trends in women's FX

I have a question I would like to know other opinions about to
serve my own interests. The recent code has put a great deal of
value on front tumbling skills. It seems to me that there is more
diversity in the tumbling passes that the women are using this
past year. Here is my question: has this made the floor routines
more enjoyable to watch? A layout front-full is certainly less
dynamic than a double back, but it does allow many more feasible
combinations to be used into and out of the skill.

So, what skills are people just sick and tired of seeing? Which
ones do they find exciting? Personally, I would rather see Pod's
double front barani-out than another double layout or pike full-in.


Cheers,
Troy

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:17:50 -0600
From: ***@UALR.EDU
Subject: OLYMPIC PREDICTIONS

I AGREE IT'S TOO EARLY TO MAKE REAL SOUND PREDICTIONS, BUT FROM THE LOOKS OF
THINGS NOW.....

TEAM COMP.= 1 ROMANIA 2 USA 3 CHINA 4 RUSSIA 5 BELARUS

THE ONLY OLYMPIC TITLE THE ROMANIANS HAVE WON WAS IN 1984, WHICH WAS
BOYCOTTED, SO THEY WILL BE VERY HUNGRY FOR THIS TITLE AND WON'T LET IT GET AWAY
EASILY. HOWEVER, THE AMERICANS SHOULD HAVE A COMBINATION OF EXPERIENCE AND
YOUTH (MILLER, DAWES, ZMESKAL-MOCEANU,BWHARDWAI(SP?), PHELPS) SO THEY WILL ALSO
BE TOUGH TO BEAT. NEITHER ONE SHOULD OVERLOOK THE CHINESE, WHO ARE IMPROVING
ON VAULT AND FLOOR AND ARE ALWAYS BEAUTIFUL ON BEAM AND BARS-THEY'LL ALSO BE
TOUGH. IT'S GOING TO BE A GREAT COMPETITION!!!

ALL-AROUND= (THIS IS A TOUGHY!!) 1 MOCEANU,MARIANESCU,ZMESKAL,HULIAN
2 (ANY OF THE ABOVE THREE) MILLER,DAWES,PODKOPAYAVA, MILO
3 KHORKINA (OR POSSIBLY THOSE LISTED ABOVE)

I THINK THE "YOUNGSTERS" WILL BE EXTREMELY TOUGH. LOOK FOR THE TWO NEW
NADIA'S TO CONTINUE TO IMPROVE UP TO THE GAMES. IF MIGHTY MO CAN PUT TOGETHER
4 CONSISTENT ROUTINES, THEN LOOK OUT! ALSO, IF ANY OF YOU HAVE DOUBTS ABOUT
KIM Z. AND HER COMEBACK-THINK AGAIN. AT THE ROCK 'N' ROLL CHAMPS. SHE LOOKED
GREAT, SO IF HER OTHER THREE EVENTS LOOK NEAR AS GOOD, SHE'S A SHOE IN FOR THE
TEAM (BARRING INJURY OF COURSE). IF SHE DOES MAKE THE TEAM, SHE WILL BE
HUNGRIER THAN ANYONE FOR THE GOLD. I DON'T THINK MILLER OR MILO HAVE IT IN
THEM, BUT THEY COULD BE 2 OR 3. THIS WILL ALSO BE A GREAT COMP.!

EVENT FINALS= V- 1 MILO, GOGEAN, ZMESKAL BB- 1 HULIAN UB- 1 HULIAN
FX- ANYBODY'S GAME!!!

I THINK THESE ARE THE HARDEST TO PICK. MANY GYMNASTS WILL QUALIFY FOR
ALL FOUR EVENTS, AND ANY ONE OF THEM COULD PUT TOGETHER AT LEAST ONE FABULOUS
ROUTINE FOR A GOLD.

CAN'T WAIT TO SEE!!!!!

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:40:16 -0500
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Recent trends in women's FX

Well, I like the fact that there is more variety of tumbling
being done by the gymnasts today, but I think the WTC went about it the
wrong way. They should have just made front tumbling a requirement,
instead of rewarding huge rediculous bonus points for it. I mean, the
raising in value of the front tumbling went hand in glove with the new
rule of only two tumbling passes needed on FX. One reason I think women
didn't do much front tumbling in the past was that in order to make it a
"pass" (a front HS front-full doesn't meet the definition of a "pass"
according to the code), you had to do three moves in the series. Many
gymnasts found (and still do, I imagine) the front HS bounder sequence
difficult to master, and so it is harder to incorporate a simple (ie one
salto only) front tumbling "pass". Now, a woman can throw a front HS
rudi or whatever and it doesn't count as a "pass", and that doesn't
matter because only two "passes" are required.
I really like a floor routine that contains a good combination of
front and back tumbling, especially well done, imaginative front
tumbling. I think the routines of Galieva, Kotchetkova et al are good,
since they contain two strong, difficult back passes as well as good
front tumbling. However, I don't like it when someone can go out there
and get all there bonus from unimaginative front tumbling (I hate the
front full punch front tuck!) and outscore someone who has more
traditional (ie double back) type passes.
I think the advent of front tumbling has really hurt our Canadian
team, since so many of them were content to have a well coded FX with
front tumbling, and didn't bother to learn some of the more advanced back
tumbling (ie Full-in and beyond, which are a rarity on our team now, and
when they are done, they often get overscored by a routine that
front-fulls till you drop!) because good front tumbling was enough to win
at home. Unfortunately, the rest of the world (at least the top
countries in the world), even if they do do front tumbling, have still
included the traditional back tumbling moves, and so Canada was left
somewhat behind. This is just my opinion, I don't know if other
Canadians out there agree?
I think they should have required a front pass in the code, and
kept the three pass per routine requirement, then we would see a variety
of tumbling in the routines, and the moves wouldn't have been valued so
high. I think a front pass requirement could have been that one of the
"passes" (with three elements) have a front element of at least a B
value, and that the Front layout should have been the easiest B, with the
front-full and rudi Cs, front double full D, and Double front and 2 1/2
twisting front (and beyond? another fault in the code) as Es. What does
everyone else think?
Chris.

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:41:13 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Olympic Predictions

In a message dated 96-01-05 19:36:36 EST, you write:

<<
>I think, with combination of Miller, Moceanu and Dawes, plus veterans
>Strug and Borden, and youth like Jaycie Phelps and Kristy Powell and Amy
>Chow around, plus the home field enthusiasm, I think the US could very
>well pull off the win. Romania, with the consistency they have, will keep
>it very tight and could very well pass the Americans, and I think China
>will round out the medalists. Russia will most like be fourth, I think.
>Talented and artistics, I think the Russians will be off the podium due
>to inconsistency.
>
>
IF, and only if, the US wins a medal it will be only because of the homecourt
advantage. Look at Indianapolis. I think that Russia will pull it together,
and take the gold, China in a close second, with romania in the bronze

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:48:14 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: OLYMPIC PREDICTIONS

In a message dated 96-01-05 18:06:13 EST, you write:

>(MILLER, DAWES, ZMESKAL-MOCEANU,BWHARDWAI(SP?), PHELPS)
What about Amanda Borden...it seems that everyone is cutting her out of the
picture. I think we will need her sense of team spirit for the team moral,
We were great in Dortmund, but look at what happened in Sabae without her

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:52:54 -0500
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Olympic Predictions


> In a message dated 96-01-05 19:36:36 EST, you write:
> >
> IF, and only if, the US wins a medal it will be only because of the homecourt
> advantage. Look at Indianapolis. I think that Russia will pull it together,
> and take the gold, China in a close second, with romania in the bronze
>
While I agree that Russia, China, and Romania are the three teams
who, based on the talent level apparent now, deserve to be on the podium,
I don't think that a US medal would only be because of home advantage (I
am Canadian, btw), and I don't think you can ever chalk up a medal
entirely to that. Back in Indianapolis, the US women hit cold, with
Campi's OB on FX the only counting "error", and the Romanian's opened the
door with errors in compuslories. Also, the US women have since proven
that they can win medals, team and otherwise, in any continent
I think that, in the case of a home advantage victory, you
shouldn't dismiss it, since chance are, the athlete or team who wins did
their routines well, and since that's the only thing the gymnast can
control, I think that's where the emphasis should lie. I mean, many have
disputed the Olympic AA victories of Davydova and Retton, but in
fairness, Comaneci and Szabo respectively, made costly errors, where
Davydova and Retton didn't.
Just my 2 cents.
Chris.

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:55:12 -0500
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: OLYMPIC PREDICTIONS


> In a message dated 96-01-05 18:06:13 EST, you write:
>
> >(MILLER, DAWES, ZMESKAL-MOCEANU,BWHARDWAI(SP?), PHELPS)
> What about Amanda Borden...it seems that everyone is cutting her out of the
> picture. I think we will need her sense of team spirit for the team moral,
> We were great in Dortmund, but look at what happened in Sabae without her
I think that Kelli's Hill's presence as the coach on the floor
had much to do with the team spirit in Dortmund.
Chris.

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:35:38 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Olympic HOPES, not predictions.

I have two hopes for two teams heading to Atlanta. These are:

Russia: I can only hope that Oksana Fabrishnova can make it to the Olympics.
She is such an elegant gymnast and so talented. I am afraid that she has
suffered from the Stoyanova syndrome of just getting too injured too
often. I would love to see her retire as an Olympian.

Ubekestan: I can not say enough about the fact that I will be rooting the
loudest on my couch for Oksana Chitsovitina to make it to Atlanta and to
finally win a medal on vault again. She was ROBBED of the gold in Paris and
she's stuck around for a second Olympics working, I am sure, not under the
best conditions back home. A medal for her is deserving. She lacks the
strong team to help boost her score, but she's still inspirational to watch and
I WANT her to have an individual medal to retire with. She could become the
Onodi of the 1996 Games, and that would be fine for me.



Jeff

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:57:29 -0600
From: ***@SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: 1996 National Stream Cup

Following is information I received today on the meet:

WHAT: 1996 National Stream Cup (Women)
WHERE: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
University of Saskatchewan, Phys.Ed. Building, Main Gym
WHEN: February 3 & 4 - 1996
WHO: National stream women (CAN), junior and senior categories

National stream athletes are elites who did not qualify or
did not try out for the High Performance categories. National
stream athletes compete in the Open and Novice categories at
the National Championships.

The schedule for the meet is as follows:

Friday, Feb. 2
TRAINING: Junior 5:00 - 7:00 pm
TRAINING: Senior 7:00 - 9:00 pm

Saturday, Feb. 3
9:00 am - Junior warm-up
11:00 am - Junior competition
1:30 pm - Junior team & AA awards
2:00 pm - Senior warm-up
4:00 pm - Senior competition
7:00 pm - Senior team & AA awards

Sunday, Feb. 4
8:00 am - Junior & Senior warm-up
9:40 am - Junior & Senior Event Finals competition
12:30 pm - Junior & Senior Event Finals awards


If you would like more information contact Mr. Chris Baraniuk at the
Marian Gymnastics Club: phone (306)934-7179 or fax (306)934-7025.

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Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 23:52:59 -0500
From: ***@SCRANTON.COM
Subject: hello

hey can anyone tell me the value of this pass- im really bad at these
things!! round off back handspring arabian(piked) immediat fly spring
punch front and what level could it be used in? donny

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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 00:01:42 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: poetry

Dear Fellow Gymners,

Awhile back there was a poem posted on the list about Maja Hristova. I was
having problems transmitting things to the list, so I wasn't able to get my
feelings about it to you guys, and get your feelings on the whole thing.

A little background info (from what I remember). It was a very degrading,
something about a backstabbing girl in peoples nightmares.

1. I don't know the whole situation. I do know that she was suspended from
the team for disciplinary reasons. I didnt know the details, but what are
they? And maybe it is unfair of me to make these kind of statements, without
knowing these details-but here goes: I do know that everyone has made
mistakes in their lives...give her a break.

2. I distinctly remember the author of this embarassment calling her a "pug"
and maybe mentioning the word squat. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! Everyone is
complaining about Ryan's comments, well WAKE UP. These are the people that
are giving the sport a bad name. She was a beautiful gymnast, showing a high
level of difficulty...and she certainly does NOT deserve to be remembered for
her body type (which I am sure was not all that pug-like considering she
threw some very hard skills which would not have been able to be completed if
she was all that large)

I guess that my main problem with this poem was the cruel, unsympathetic
heart that it shows. I do not like to associate these kinds of people with
my beloved sport. I have made many mistakes in my short life (16 yrs) and I
have had many problems with my coach and my weight. If I had put in the
dedication to make it to the national team, I would certainly not appreciate
people judging me from my actions, and my weight. The author didi not once
mention the fact that she had worked so hard, and how upset she must have
been,, which I think was very upsetting to me as a developing adolescent- who
understands mistakes very well.

I probably will get flamed horribly by a lot of people...but I like to think
that I can assert my opinions in a public fashion- and this poem has
remained with me, and tore at my young, somewhat innocent heart, in such a
way that it goes out to this girl (however pug-like and mischievous she might
be)

Just my $.02,
ALEX

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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 02:29:35 -0500
From: ***@PIPELINE.COM
Subject: <No subject given>

Cc:
Subject: Maura, *not* Mara


>First, on the Rock n Roll Challenge, Mara, mentioned that Kim Z. had
>torn her ACL

WAIT!!!!!!! Please don't confuse me with Maura Driscoll, even in name.

Mara

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 5 Jan 1996 to 6 Jan 1996
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