GYMN-L Digest - 4 Dec 1995 to 5 Dec 1995

There are 24 messages totalling 992 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Vault Deductions
2. GB: Official opening of new training centre!
3. BB: QUESTIONS
4. Psychological Effects of Sports on Young Gymnasts
5. taped broadcast
6. GYMN-L Collegiate Update Vol. 1, no.1
7. a few questions...
8. Kellee Davis
9. vault question
10. UB QUESTIONS (5)
11. Psychological Effects.........
12. US Nationals Training Videos
13. UB Questions (2)
14. Welcome, Cambodia!
15. IRC
16. kasamatsu or tsukahara 1/1?
17. Level 10 Bar Champ
18. South Africa
19. 1995 NCAA's

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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 08:16:30 -0500
From: ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Vault Deductions

On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Adriana wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Dec 1995, Christopher wrote:
>
> > On Dec 3, 1:15pm, Jeffrey wrote:
> > > Funny, though. Seems were few deductions for throwing two vaults from the
> > > same family during from '84 to '88.
> > -You weren't required to do vaults from different families in EF until 1989.
> > Chris
> >
>
> To be exact, from '85-'89. I believe the rule existed prior to that cycle.

Make that '85-'88, not '89.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:52:12 GMT
From: ***M4-ARTS.BHAM.AC.UK
Subject: GB: Official opening of new training centre!

Just a note to say that last Wednesday, the new training facility at
Birmingham University was officially opened. (Correct any mistakes
here, Christian!) Unfortunately I didn't find out about it until it
had finished (!) but quite a few of the top British team members were
there to give a display for the top brass of the B.A.G.A., including
the new GB men's champion Marvin Campbell, and Annika Reeder.

The new facility is wonderful, provided for with money from the
B.A.G.A. and the University, and as far as I am aware, will be used
for training by regional and national squads as well as some local
clubs, not to mention the utterly fantastic Birmingham University
Gymnastics and Trampoline Club. (Not that I'm biased at all!)

Bex

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:06:40 PST
From: ***@LSS.CO.ZA
Subject: Re: BB: QUESTIONS

I heard somewhere (possibly on gymn-l) that a Russian girl is doing triple
backs off beam and bars! Is this true? I've got to see it!
Helen.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:24:32 -0500
From: ***@BGNET.BGSU.EDU
Subject: Psychological Effects of Sports on Young Gymnasts

Dear subscribers:

I am doing an independent study on the psychological difficulties that
are negatively affecting our young gymnasts(eating disorders, self image,
negative intensity, etc.). I am trying to find new information that is
current and relevant in this area. If you have any information on where
I can obtain useful bits of info please E-mail me. This can include
personal stories or actual documents that I could find. Thank you for
your time.

Jamie

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:28:37 -0500
From: ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: taped broadcast

I know this is a gymnastics listerserve,but I would be very happy if
someone taped the 1995 Riders Ladies Figure Skating Championships that
aired on cbs this past Sunday Dec.2(?) THis competition took place in
Chicago, (I think), and featured Rory Flack,Denise Bielman,Keriigan,etc.
please e-mail me back. I will of course pay for all expenses. Thankx.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:07:38 -0800
From: ***@LELAND.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: GYMN-L Collegiate Update Vol. 1, no.1

GYMN-L's Collegiate Update
Volume 1, no. 1
Dec. 4, 1995
_____________________________________________________________________

(***Editor's note: Since this is the only meet this issue, I'm sending
the UMass Open scores as I received them, but this is going to be way too
much information once the season starts. I think team scores and top
six AA and Event are more than enough, even for the big meets. I'll be
happy to keep a text file of more thorough info accessible through WWW
(as disk quota permits), but it will add up to a lot of mail.

(***Editor's note #2: Although "Editor" is a more common title, I really
only have time to be a compiler, so please submit your articles exactly
as you want them to appear on the list. Thanks)

_____________________________________

Contents:

1. UMass Open Scores
2. UMass Open Commentary

_____________________________________

*****Item number 1.1.1*****

From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject: umass open 1995

1995 University of Massachusetts Open
Curry Hicks Cage, Amherst, MA Saturday, December 2, 1995

Ohio State
FX PH R V PB HB
Frank Ansevin 8950 9050 9100
Drew Durbin 9350 9700 9550 9400 9550 9750
Chad Finefrock 9000 9400
Michael Finn 9500
Seth Klayman 9100
Mike Canales 9450 8150 9050 8950 8000 9500
Mike Morgan 9500 8450 9050 8750 9350 9700
Tim Elsner 9700 8600 9100 9150 9000 9200
Doug Stibel 8350 9200 8500 9400
Peter Landry 9100 9200
Jason Pelland 8350 8700 8450 8200
38000 36500 36800 36800 37200 38350 223650

Penn State
FX PH R V PB HB
Tyson Bryant 8750 9200
Danny Biegel 9300 9350 9250 7550
Tom Ellefson 8900 8700 9600
Tim Lashua 8400 8850 9000 8900
Roy Malka 8800 9100 8800 8500 8100
Steven McSparren 9700 8900 9300 8300 9250
JM Michel 9400 8450 9000 9150 9050 9300
Tony Pansy 8000 9150
Joe Roemer 9200 9350 8900 8500 7950 8200
Brandy Wood 9200 8350 9300 8300 9050 9500
Mark Minutaglio 7900
37600 36200 36550 36700 35700 37650 220400



Univ. of Mass.
FX PH R V PB HB
Gabe Columbus 9400 6700 9150 9100 8800 8850
Steve Frey 6350
Andy Fulmer 8300
Chris Funk 8600 8450 9500 8650 8300 7450
Steve Goldman 9150 9000
Brad LeClair 8450
Phil Lieberman 8600 9150
Mike Plourde 8950
Stephen Pryor 8150 6850 8550 8200 8600
Michael Sangirardi 8850
Keith Showstack 8250 8200 8350 8550 9000 8400
Ruslan Shupak 9250 6500 9350 8950 8900 8100
Christopher Voght 8150
Dan Young 9150 6900 8200 8200 8800
36750 32000 37150 35550 35700 35400 212550


Univ. of Mich.
FX PH R V PB HB
Randy D'Amura 8850 7700 6100 8600
Kris Klinger 8300 7300 7100 9500
Tim Lauring 9400 8150 9150
Edwin Ledgard 7950 6550 8800 8350 8350 7450
Jason MacDonald 9300 8700 7650 8650
Flavio Martins 8800 7850 8600 8800 9050 9000
Chris Onuska 8250 9150 8750 8750 9100 8750
Justin Semion 5650 6400 5200
36350 31250 34300 35400 34150 35900 207350

Army
FX PH R V PB HB
Joe Alderete 8650
Michael Bush 8550 7500 7700
Ryan Close 6750
John Doss 7450
Ben Hayward 7900 8850 8800 6750
Steve Marshall 9100 9000
Jeff Means 8400 6150 7700 7750 7300
Michael Silvestro 8400 8700 8650 8500 8300
Mike Sivulka 9000 9100 8450 8900 7600 9000
Rich Spencer 8500 8350 8650 6800
34700 35400 32300 35000 32850 32300 202550


Temple Univ.
FX PH R V PB HB
Chris Perrin 8600 8500 8800
Joe Martelli 9000 9050 8650 8550
Dom Boardley 8500 8250 7500
Jason Rushton 7850 7950 8150
Aaron Vexler 9150 8400 3000
Darin Gerlach 8850 6800 8650 9000 8000 8250
Gerry Galster 8100 6200
Dave Schrock 8600 8250 8550 8400
Delvin Franklin 7500
35050 22900 34300 35600 32450 32700 193000

Univ. of Vermont
FX PH R V PB HB
Jamie Abbatiello 9300 7800 6450 8900 7400 8000
Brian Blake 7250 6000 5300 8000 6250 6500
Travis Jewell 7450 7150 4600 8450 7750 6100
Jason Platt 7300 4000 4950 8500 4550 5100
Sean Stevens 7600 6250 8050 6150 6000
Trueson Tarinelli 7750 3750 6900 5400
32100 24950 24900 33900 27550 26600 170000



MIT
FX PH R V PB HB
Robert Cooper 7900 5500 7500 8450 6600 6800
David Golombek 5900 8150
Andrew Lobban 7550 6650 8000 5750 7150
Andrew McCraith 4100 8000
Jason Miller 7600 5600 6550 8650 7100 7100
Robert Spina 7700 4650 5250 8100 6600 5800
Van Van 6450 3800
30750 22400 27300 33350 26050 26850 166700

Syracuse
FX PH R V PB HB
Mike Emmons 9450 6750 8700 9200 8600 7900
Shane Geraghty 9100 7850 9100 9100 8650 8850
Scott Hrnack 8400 8300 8450 8900 8350 9050
26950 22900 26250 27200 25600 25800 154700



Southern Conn.
FX PH R V PB HB
Michael Fleming 7450 5450 5000 7900 5250 5000
Thomas Greet 6800 4650 5700 8000 5800 4500
Craig Tetreault 8350 4100 5100 8850 6500 6600
22600 14200 15800 24750 17550 16100 111000


ALL-AROUND
FX PH R V PB HB TOTAL
Drew Durbin 9350 9700 9550 9400 9550 9750 57.300 1 Ohio State
Mike Morgan 9500 8450 9050 8750 9350 9700 54.800 2 Ohio State
Tim Elsner 9700 8600 9100 9150 9000 9200 54.750 3 Ohio State
Jeff LaVallee 9600 8650 8850 9100 9450 8900 54.550 4 Daggett's
JM Michel 9400 8450 9000 9150 9050 9300 54.350 5 Penn State
Brandy Wood 9200 8350 9300 8300 9050 9500 53.700 6 Penn State
Mike Canales 9450 8150 9050 8950 8000 9500 53.100 7 Ohio State
Chris Onuska 8250 9150 8750 8750 9100 8750 52.750 8 Univ. of Mich.
Shane Geraghty 9100 7850 9100 9100 8650 8850 52.650 9 Syracuse
Flavio Martins 8800 7850 8600 8800 9050 9000 52.100 10 Univ. of Mich.
Joe Roemer 9200 9350 8900 8500 7950 8200 52.100 10 Penn State
Mike Sivulka 9000 9100 8450 8900 7600 9000 52.050 12 Army
Gabe Columbus 9400 6700 9150 9100 8800 8850 52.000 13 Univ. of Mass.
Scott Hrnack 8400 8300 8450 8900 8350 9050 51.450 14 Syracuse
Ruslan Shupak 9250 6500 9350 8950 8900 8100 51.050 15 Univ. of Mass.
Chris Funk 8600 8450 9500 8650 8300 7450 50.950 16 Univ. of Mass.
Mike Emmons 9450 6750 8700 9200 8600 7900 50.600 17 Syracuse
Justin Toman 9300 7700 8000 8150 8500 8300 49.950 18 Syracuse
Darin Gerlach 8850 6800 8650 9000 8000 8250 49.550 19 Temple Univ.
Jamie Abbatiello 9300 7800 6450 8900 7400 8000 47.850 20 Univ. of Vermont
Edwin Ledgard 7950 6550 8800 8350 8350 7450 47.450 21 Univ. of Mich.
Henry Spencer 8950 6300 6950 8550 7350 8950 47.050 22 Surgent's Elite
Mark Sorrentino 8250 6600 7850 8500 7550 7500 46.250 23 S CONN
Dave Durante 8450 7050 6700 8400 7450 7000 45.050 24 Surgent's Elite
Roy Malka 8800 9100 8800 8500 8100 43.300 25 Penn State
Robert Cooper 7900 5500 7500 8450 6600 6800 42.750 26 MIT
Jason Smith 8600 6050 6800 8700 7100 5500 42.750 26 S CONN
Jason Miller 7600 5600 6550 8650 7100 7100 42.600 28 MIT
Travis Jewell 7450 7150 4600 8450 7750 6100 41.500 29 Univ. of Vermont
Dan Young 9150 6900 8200 8200 8800 41.250 30 Univ. of Mass.
Stephen Pryor 8150 6850 8550 8200 8600 40.350 31 Univ. of Mass.
Craig Tetreault 8350 4100 5100 8850 6500 6600 39.500 32 Southern Conn.
Brian Blake 7250 6000 5300 8000 6250 6500 39.300 33 Univ. of Vermont
Robert Spina 7700 4650 5250 8100 6600 5800 38.100 34 MIT
Jeff Means 8400 6150 7700 7750 7300 37.300 35 Army
Michael Fleming 7450 5450 5000 7900 5250 5000 36.050 36 Southern Conn.



1995 University of Massachusetts Open
Curry Hicks Cage, Amherst, MA Saturday, December 2, 1995

Ohio State
FX PH R V PB HB
Frank Ansevin 8950 9050 9100
Drew Durbin 9350 9700 9550 9400 9550 9750
Chad Finefrock 9000 9400
Michael Finn 9500
Seth Klayman 9100
Mike Canales 9450 8150 9050 8950 8000 9500
Mike Morgan 9500 8450 9050 8750 9350 9700
Tim Elsner 9700 8600 9100 9150 9000 9200
Doug Stibel 8350 9200 8500 9400
Peter Landry 9100 9200
Jason Pelland 8350 8700 8450 8200
38000 36500 36800 36800 37200 38350 223650

Penn State
FX PH R V PB HB
Tyson Bryant 8750 9200
Danny Biegel 9300 9350 9250 7550
Tom Ellefson 8900 8700 9600
Tim Lashua 8400 8850 9000 8900
Roy Malka 8800 9100 8800 8500 8100
Steven McSparren 9700 8900 9300 8300 9250
JM Michel 9400 8450 9000 9150 9050 9300
Tony Pansy 8000 9150
Joe Roemer 9200 9350 8900 8500 7950 8200
Brandy Wood 9200 8350 9300 8300 9050 9500
Mark Minutaglio 7900
37600 36200 36550 36700 35700 37650 220400


Univ. of Mass.

FX PH R V PB HB
Gabe Columbus 9400 6700 9150 9100 8800 8850
Steve Frey 6350
Andy Fulmer 8300
Chris Funk 8600 8450 9500 8650 8300 7450
Steve Goldman 9150 9000
Brad LeClair 8450
Phil Lieberman 8600 9150
Mike Plourde 8950
Stephen Pryor 8150 6850 8550 8200 8600
Michael Sangirardi 8850
Keith Showstack 8250 8200 8350 8550 9000 8400
Ruslan Shupak 9250 6500 9350 8950 8900 8100
Christopher Voght 8150
Dan Young 9150 6900 8200 8200 8800
36750 32000 37150 35550 35700 35400 212550


Univ. of Mich.
FX PH R V PB HB
Randy D'Amura 8850 7700 6100 8600
Kris Klinger 8300 7300 7100 9500
Tim Lauring 9400 8150 9150
Edwin Ledgard 7950 6550 8800 8350 8350 7450
Jason MacDonald 9300 8700 7650 8650
Flavio Martins 8800 7850 8600 8800 9050 9000
Chris Onuska 8250 9150 8750 8750 9100 8750
Justin Semion 5650 6400 5200
36350 31250 34300 35400 34150 35900 207350

Army
FX PH R V PB HB
Joe Alderete 8650
Michael Bush 8550 7500 7700
Ryan Close 6750
John Doss 7450
Ben Hayward 7900 8850 8800 6750
Steve Marshall 9100 9000
Jeff Means 8400 6150 7700 7750 7300
Michael Silvestro 8400 8700 8650 8500 8300
Mike Sivulka 9000 9100 8450 8900 7600 9000
Rich Spencer 8500 8350 8650 6800
34700 35400 32300 35000 32850 32300 202550


Temple Univ.
FX PH R V PB HB
Chris Perrin 8600 8500 8800
Joe Martelli 9000 9050 8650 8550
Dom Boardley 8500 8250 7500
Jason Rushton 7850 7950 8150
Aaron Vexler 9150 8400 3000
Darin Gerlach 8850 6800 8650 9000 8000 8250
Gerry Galster 8100 6200
Dave Schrock 8600 8250 8550 8400
Delvin Franklin 7500
35050 22900 34300 35600 32450 32700 193000

Univ. of Vermont
FX PH R V PB HB
Jamie Abbatiello 9300 7800 6450 8900 7400 8000
Brian Blake 7250 6000 5300 8000 6250 6500
Travis Jewell 7450 7150 4600 8450 7750 6100
Jason Platt 7300 4000 4950 8500 4550 5100
Sean Stevens 7600 6250 8050 6150 6000
Trueson Tarinelli 7750 3750 6900 5400
32100 24950 24900 33900 27550 26600 170000


MIT

FX PH =20R V PB HB
Robert Cooper 7900 5500 7500 8450 6600 6800
David Golombek 5900 8150
Andrew Lobban 7550 6650 8000 5750 7150
Andrew McCraith 4100 8000
Jason Miller 7600 5600 6550 8650 7100 7100
Robert Spina 7700 4650 5250 8100 6600 5800
Van Van 6450 3800
30750 22400 27300 33350 26050 26850 166700

Syracuse
FX PH R V PB HB
Mike Emmons 9450 6750 8700 9200 8600 7900
Shane Geraghty 9100 7850 9100 9100 8650 8850
Scott Hrnack 8400 8300 8450 8900 8350 9050
26950 22900 26250 27200 25600 25800 154700


Southern Conn.

FX PH R V PB HB
Michael Fleming 7450 5450 5000 7900 5250 5000
Thomas Greet 6800 4650 5700 8000 5800 4500
Craig Tetreault 8350 4100 5100 8850 6500 6600
22600 14200 15800 24750 17550 16100 111000


ALL-AROUND
FX PH R V PB HB TOTAL
Drew Durbin 9350 9700 9550 9400 9550 9750 57.300 1 Ohio State
Mike Morgan 9500 8450 9050 8750 9350 9700 54.800 2 Ohio State
Tim Elsner 9700 8600 9100 9150 9000 9200 54.750 3 Ohio State
Jeff LaVallee 9600 8650 8850 9100 9450 8900 54.550 4 Daggett's
JM Michel 9400 8450 9000 9150 9050 9300 54.350 5 Penn State
Brandy Wood 9200 8350 9300 8300 9050 9500 53.700 6 Penn State
Mike Canales 9450 8150 9050 8950 8000 9500 53.100 7 Ohio State
Chris Onuska 8250 9150 8750 8750 9100 8750 52.750 8 Univ. of Mich.
Shane Geraghty 9100 7850 9100 9100 8650 8850 52.650 9 Syracuse
Flavio Martins 8800 7850 8600 8800 9050 9000 52.100 10 Univ. of Mich.
Joe Roemer 9200 9350 8900 8500 7950 8200 52.100 10 Penn State
Mike Sivulka 9000 9100 8450 8900 7600 9000 52.050 12 Army
Gabe Columbus 9400 6700 9150 9100 8800 8850 52.000 13 Univ. of Mass.
Scott Hrnack 8400 8300 8450 8900 8350 9050 51.450 14 Syracuse
Ruslan Shupak 9250 6500 9350 8950 8900 8100 51.050 15 Univ. of Mass.
Chris Funk 8600 8450 9500 8650 8300 7450 50.950 16 Univ. of Mass.
Mike Emmons 9450 6750 8700 9200 8600 7900 50.600 17 Syracuse
Justin Toman 9300 7700 8000 8150 8500 8300 49.950 18 Syracuse
Darin Gerlach 8850 6800 8650 9000 8000 8250 49.550 19 Temple Univ.
Jamie Abbatiello 9300 7800 6450 8900 7400 8000 47.850 20 Univ. of Vermont
Edwin Ledgard 7950 6550 8800 8350 8350 7450 47.450 21 Univ. of Mich.
Henry Spencer 8950 6300 6950 8550 7350 8950 47.050 22 Surgent's Elite
Mark Sorrentino 8250 6600 7850 8500 7550 7500 46.250 23 S CONN
Dave Durante 8450 7050 6700 8400 7450 7000 45.050 24 Surgent's Elite
Roy Malka 8800 9100 8800 8500 8100 43.300 25 Penn State
Robert Cooper 7900 5500 7500 8450 6600 6800 42.750 26 MIT
Jason Smith 8600 6050 6800 8700 7100 5500 42.750 26 S CONN
Jason Miller 7600 5600 6550 8650 7100 7100 42.600 28 MIT
Travis Jewell 7450 7150 4600 8450 7750 6100 41.500 29 Univ. of Vermont
Dan Young 9150 6900 8200 8200 8800 41.250 30 Univ. of Mass.
Stephen Pryor 8150 6850 8550 8200 8600 40.350 31 Univ. of Mass.
Craig Tetreault 8350 4100 5100 8850 6500 6600 39.500 32 Southern Conn.
Brian Blake 7250 6000 5300 8000 6250 6500 39.300 33 Univ. of Vermont
Robert Spina 7700 4650 5250 8100 6600 5800 38.100 34 MIT
Jeff Means 8400 6150 7700 7750 7300 37.300 35 Army
Michael Fleming 7450 5450 5000 7900 5250 5000 36.050 36 Southern Conn.
Thomas Greet 6800 4650 5700 8000 5800 4500 35.450 37 Southern Conn.
Ross Lemenille 7300 6750 8100 6100 6800 35.050 38 Surgent's Elite
Jason Platt 7300 4000 4950 8500 4550 5100 34.400 39 Univ. of Vermont
Eddie Wentzheimer 6700 8350 7650 8100 30.800 40 Surgent's Elite
Louis Levine 8850 7150 8350 24.350 41 Surgent's Elite
Aaron Vexler 9150 8400 3000 20.550 42 Temple Univ.

_____________________________________

*****Item number 1.1.2*****

From: ***@rmii.com
Subject: UMass Open

The top two teams of the meet, The Ohio State Buckeyes and the Penn
State Nittany Lions, went head-to-head at the UMass Open rotating
together in Olympic rotation. Ohio State took the lead immediately
and never relinquished it. With an unbelievable group of freshman
(who look like anything but freshmen!) plus Drew Durbin (who, in
contrast, looks about 15), there was never any question of who would
win this meet. Their difficulty was very high: eg, on high bar, one
guy threw a full-twisting layout Jaeger, another did two Gaylord II's.
I actually heard people gasp at Durbin's pommels routine. He took
every gold medal except for floor. OSU won about two out of every
three event medals and swept the top three all-around -- hats off to
the Buckeyes, and especially to all of those on Gymn.

Penn State looked pretty good, also; one guy mounted and dismounted
floor with double layouts. They did well especially considering they
were without one of their best gymnasts, Tony Pansy (injured). UMass
was improved to finish third, led by their top guy, Ruslan Shupak.
Temple had a poor meet, with all-arounder Aaron Vexler injuring
himself on a Gaylord II fall off high bar (bounced on his left elbow),
taking himself out of the competition and leaving Temple with only
three scores on pommels (4 scores counting).

Congrats to Roy Johnson, UMass head coach, for another well-directed
and successful UMass Open.

_____________________________________

The "GYMN-L Collegiate Update" is a twice-weekly collection of news on the
collegiate gymnastics scene (reduced to once-a-week until January).
To make a submission the the _GYMN-L Collegiate Update_, send email to
***@leland.stanford.edu (NOT directly to the GYMN-L list) with
"Collegiate Update" or "GCU" in the subject header.
Please send any replies, comments, or suggestions to the same address.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:19:25 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: a few questions...

Why doesn't anyone do a full-twisting double back pike off of bars? What
beam dismounts are rated at an E? Why does practically everybody do a double
tuck? Why don't they down grade it to encourage more originality like they
did with the yurchenko full and hristakieva? Is there a such thing as an E+
rating for someone who, say, adds a twist to something already rated an E?
What's a double layout on floor rated?
Thax,
Liz

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:29:19 -0500
From: ***@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Kellee Davis

I am curious about this gymnast, Kellee Davis. I saw her in either IG or
USA Gymnastics a couple of "issues" ago. I think it was from the Budget
Invitational, I'm not sure. I was wanting to know a few things;
1. How old is she? 2. What are some of her career highlights? 3. Does
she have a shot of becoming a "star" (US Nationals top finisher,
Worlds/Olympic Team member, etc.)? 4. What kind of skills does she perform?
All responses are greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Aaron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:39:37 -0500
From: ***@BUTTERCUP.CYBERNEX.NET
Subject: Re: vault question

>What exactly makes a double twist vault (a yurchenko full) harder than
>a double full on floor. On floor it seems that anyone can do a double full
>but on vault it is rare.

>thanks...

A double twisting Yurchenko vault is much harder then a double twist because
you don't get the push off of your feet like you would on floor. Also it is
a 1.5 flip instead of a single.

Now I have a question, has anyone ever done a double layout on floor where
they split their leg on the second salto (like Gutsu did in 92 only in the
second rotation.) I think it would be cool if someone could and land it
like a layout stepout.

Lori

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:22:39 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: UB QUESTIONS

!) When did they stop allowing gymnasts to move the bars/chaneg the settinsg?


2) Are release moves allowed on the low bar other than transitions to the
high bar like Shaposhnikova, etc?


3) How many moves must a gymnast do on the low bar per exercise? Must she
have more than one contact with the low bar per exercise?


4) What is the value of the RO - back tuck mount OVER the low bar (Jentsch/GDR)
in the code? E?

5) Was there a reason why the FIG wanted to stop moves which take off
from the feet on the bars (Korbut, standing double full dismount) by
removing all value from these moves?

6) Anyone ever see a double flyaway (tucked/piked/laid-out) that was
done OVER the low bar (facing inwards)?


Thanks....I'll have FX and vault questions soon, then I'll get to the men'
s events.



Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:34:24 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Psychological Effects.........

Jamie,
How about doing something POSITVE for the sport of gymnastics? There's
already been a book written ("Little Girls In Pretty Boxes") that damns the
sports and shows the very ugly side of gymnastics. There's a lot of positive
aspects to gymnastics and there are a lot of girls as well as boys who
benefit in a lot of ways from participating in gymnastics. I'll admit that
gymnastics is not an easy sport but what sport is? There are bad times but
there is also triumph.

Sincerely,
A Gymnastics Mom

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:58:34 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: US Nationals Training Videos

For those of you who have been in search of the US Nationals Training tapes,
they are from USA Gymnastics. Call 800-4-USA-GYM to order.
As I've mentioned to several people, if you would like descriptions of these
or any other USAG videos I would be happy to "talk video" with you on the
phone. (317)237-5050 ext. 254. Happy hunting.
Regards,
Dawn Alice

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:26:39 -0500
From: ***@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject: UB Questions

In answer to one of the questions (well, sort of), at the 1987 US-USSR
meet, Yulia Kut warmed up a Tkachev on the low bar. It was really cool and I
wouldn't have believed it if I didn't have it on tape. She *didn't* do it in
the competition though. So I know release moves from low bar back to low bar
are POSSIBLE, but I kind of wonder if they're discouraged (like the Chinese
girls' 1-armed giants), maybe because of the increased risk of injury if you
fall. It seems like a hop-full would be possible to do on low bar too. Does
anyone with a Code of Points know it specifically discourages release moves
from low bar to low bar?

Beth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:56:39 +0000
From: ***@IGC.APC.ORG
Subject: Welcome, Cambodia!

This may not be the most earth-shaking gymn news, but I couldn't resist
sharing it--on December 3, Reuters reported that gymnasts from Cambodia
will be competing in the Southeast Asian Games, which will be held
in Chiang Mai, Thailand Dec. 9-17. It's significant because this
is the first time that Cambodia has competed in the Games since the
1960s. As we all know, the 25 years of warfare since then completely
destroyed the country. IMHO, it's a remarkable sign (although I
wouldn't read too much into it) that things have progressed to the
point that Cambodians are once again training in sports...tumbling,
kicking up handstands... And for a change from the usual posturing:
the national Olympic chair, Meas Sarin, was quoted: "I am happy for
this chance, but I have little hope for a victory because our sportsmen's
abilities and techniques are still poor." There's honesty! But I'd
agree that, political arguments and justified cynicism aside, the point
is that they're back in action...and welcome to their spot in the
gymnastics world.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:09:42 -0500
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: UB Questions

In regards to Yulia Kut doing a Tkatchev on the low bar, I remember
her doing a Hindorff in her career. Canadian Yvonne Tousek also does this
move, and I have seen her warm it up several times on the low bar, with her
coach Elvira Saadi spotting her. I assume she warms it up on the low bar to
make it easier for her coach to spot her on it.
I think an actual Tkatchev on the low bar in competition wouldn't be
too great, as it would be hard to keep good leg form on the regrasp (most
gymnasts would have to bend their knees to avoid hitting the ground).
Chris

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:15:09 -0600
From: ***@SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: Re: UB QUESTIONS

>6) Anyone ever see a double flyaway (tucked/piked/laid-out) that was
>done OVER the low bar (facing inwards)?

That sounds a bit risky (if I'm picturing properly what you're trying
to describe). However, I *have* seen a tucked double flyaway OFF of
the low bar. Pretty cool.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 23:29:41 -0500
From: ***@PHOENIX.PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: UB QUESTIONS

> >6) Anyone ever see a double flyaway (tucked/piked/laid-out) that was
> >done OVER the low bar (facing inwards)?
>
> That sounds a bit risky (if I'm picturing properly what you're trying
> to describe). However, I *have* seen a tucked double flyaway OFF of
> the low bar. Pretty cool.
>
How would it be possible to generate enough momentum to do a double back
off the low bar and still go far enough away from the bar to not hit your
head? It sounds cool, though. Where have you seen it done?

-Emily

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 23:06:03 -0600
From: ***@SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: IRC

Hi all. As of late I've been able to gain a bit of knowledge about IRC,
which stands for Internet Relay Chat. I think this could be a great
way to "talk" gymnastics real-time with fellow netters, but without
the tremendous cost of a long distance phone call. (But of course
without taking away any of the discussion on Gymn-L.) All you'll
pay for is the online time, unless of course you're a lucky university
student with free net access!

IRC is an internet-based chat with hundreds of different channels
on just about any topic you can think of, except for gymnastics
unfortunately. (Well so far anyway.) IRC is far more efficient
than a WWW based chat which requires repetitive reloading of the chat
page to see new messages. IRC is much like a BBS chat where your message
shows up on the receiver's screen as soon as you hit the Enter key.

I've chatted a couple of times already with a fellow Canadian Gymner,
as well as a Gymner in England. The other night a coach in South
Carolina joined our converstaion and we explained to him about
Gymn-L and how to subscribe. So you never know who'll show up.

All we had to do was agree in advance on a mutual time to meet
(via email) and once you get going it's hard to quit ... just like
talking on the phone.

There must be an IRC FAQ somewhere on the net, and most major software
archives will have several shareware IRC applications to choose from
for downloading. I'm using a program for windows called WSIRC which
was very easy to figure out, and even included a list of IRC servers
around the world.

This is all pretty new to me, but if you have any questions email
me and I'll see if I can help.

DORY

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 23:31:44 -0600
From: ***@SASKNET.SK.CA
Subject: Re: UB QUESTIONS

>>However, I *have* seen a tucked double flyaway OFF of
>> the low bar. Pretty cool.
>>
>How would it be possible to generate enough momentum to do a double back
>off the low bar and still go far enough away from the bar to not hit your
>head? It sounds cool, though. Where have you seen it done?

It was a Czech girl at '88 Junior Europeans in France. She bent her legs
at the bottom of the swing (in the same way as girls that used to do giants
on the LB), let go at the right time, and obviously rotated very quickly, as
that type of swing would generate (ie - harder to generate true swing if she
bent at the hips). She didn't cowboy that I could see and wasn't *that*
close to the bar. With such short air time it would have to be very easy to
under or over rotate the skill, but she only took a very small step. A very
impressive (not to mention unexpected) element.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 00:54:38 EST
From: ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: kasamatsu or tsukahara 1/1?

Somebody was asking about the difference between the layout kasamatsu
and the layout tsukahara 1/1.

Tsukahara with 1/1 twist and Kasamatsu are similar vaults - but they
are different. The difference is the direction of the twist of the
post flight in relation to the direction to the twist in the
preflight.

When men do a layout tsukahara with 1/1 twist, they are actually
performing a 1/4 twist on 1/4 twist off same direction (leaving them
facing the horse), and then a back layout 1/1 continuing in the same
direction as the preflight. (one continuous twisting motion)

When doing the layout kasamatsu, they perform the same 1/4 twist on,
reverse the twist and do 1/4 twist off the opposite direction
(leaving them facing away from the horse), and then do front layout
with 1/2 twist.

The tsuk 1/1 has a total of 1 1/2 twist including preflight and post
flight.

The kasamatsu has 1/4 twist one direction and 3/4 twist the other
direction total.

Since women (girls) are allowed to perform any where from 1/4 - 1/2
twist on in preflight for tsuks - it is sometimes very difficult to
distinguish between the two different vaults at normal speed.

Many gymnasts perform the kasamatsu and don't even realize it.

When watching these vaults from the side, you can tell which they are
doing by using the following technique:
during the preflight - watch to see if you see the back or belly 1st.
If you then see the same 1st during the post flight - it was a
kasamatsu because they reverse twisted. If the twist continues in
the same direction you would see belly / back or back / belly making
it a tsuk 1/1.

I hope that this clears up some of the confusion.

STEEL
"SPORTS SERVE SOCIETY BY PROVIDING VIVID EXAMPLES OF
EXCELLENCE.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 02:04:50 -0500
From: ***@DELPHI.COM
Subject: Level 10 Bar Champ

>
>
> Level 10 Danae Phillips (National Academy of Artistic, Washington) does a
> great full twisting pak salto on bars. She was the 17+ National Bars Champ
>at JO Nationals and was 7th AA.

When in doubt, I ask my gymnasts, they always remember these things better
than I and they confirmed that Denise Jones and Danae tied for first.
Besides the full twisting Pak salto Danae also tried a handspring front
with a full twist on vault! it was under rotated, but a nice try....
bjcorr@delphi.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 02:26:11 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: South Africa

Hello Everyone!

Just thought I'd ask a quick question. Are there any subscribers here from
South Africa? Does anyone know of any South African contacts? Web pages? I
have a friend who is interested. Thanks! See ya!

Doug

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 02:51:22 -0600
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject: 1995 NCAA's

Well, this IS old news, but I finally begged the 1995 NCAA tape out of
our women's gymnastics coach, and boy...AM I IMPRESSED! There are som,e
absolutely fabulous routines.

Just two things to point out. I've raved about Aimee Trepanier many a time
because of her personality. Well, I thinik someonme has arrived to take
her place. Julie Ballard of Georgia just sparkles there, not to mention I
love her choice of music (Duke, Duke, used by Kristie Yamaguchi last year).
It is my honest belief, if she hit that routine in prelims like she did in
finals ( I don't know, didn't see prelims) that with a lineup change she
would made floor event finals. That routine certainly deserved to be there.

Second, Nicole Garrett of Arizona pitched a Hindorff on bars, I think.
The form was lousy, so it was kind hard to tell, but the effort was
great.

Anyhow, I loved this tape. Sooooooo much more to see than CBS's coverage.
And, in all due deference to Utah, I think Alabama got ripped on some
scores and quite possibly could have won even with Merritt Booth's floor
fall. *shrug* Then again, who knows? This year outta be fun...:)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 03:18:59 -0600
From: ***@EDEN.COM
Subject: Re: UB QUESTIONS

At 06:22 PM 12/4/95 -0600, you wrote:
>!) When did they stop allowing gymnasts to move the bars/chaneg the settinsg?
>
They haven't stopped. Most gymnasts don't change the settings (at the elite
level) simply because the bars are as high and far away from each other as
the equipment physically permits. Most of the gymnasts want the extra space
to perform their giants and related skills.
>
>2) Are release moves allowed on the low bar other than transitions to the
>high bar like Shaposhnikova, etc?
>
>
Low bar releases are allowed, but they do not have the same value. (Someone
with a current USGF supplement please correct me.) If I remember correctly,
most of the elements have been downgraded by a value.

>3) How many moves must a gymnast do on the low bar per exercise? Must she
>have more than one contact with the low bar per exercise?
>
At least two. The rules specify 3 bar changes. If the gymnast starts on
the LB, she would have to go LB-HB (1), HB-LB (2), LB-HB (3), touching the
low bar a total (theoretical minimum) of two times. The gymnast must
contact the bar for the move to be considered. [A free straddle mount over
the low bar does NOT count as a low bar element or a bar change.]
>
>4) What is the value of the RO - back tuck mount OVER the low bar (Jentsch/GDR)
>in the code? E?
>
I don't have my Code handy, but at last look this was a D. Kim Kelly used
to perform this skill. [She fell at World Trials and so missed the '91 Worlds.]

>5) Was there a reason why the FIG wanted to stop moves which take off
>from the feet on the bars (Korbut, standing double full dismount) by
>removing all value from these moves?
>

Presumably to bring the swing back to bars. One of the most elegant
routines I have ever seen was that performed by Olga Strasheva (sp?) [I
can't remember how to spell most of my favorite gymnasts' names!] at the '89
Worlds. Not only did she have beautiful lines and wonderful difficulty and
release moves, she had difficult transitions between the bars. I still love
her shapasnikova immediate uprise free hip 1/2 Ginger over shoot! C + C + C
+ D ! And not a kip in sight! :)

>6) Anyone ever see a double flyaway (tucked/piked/laid-out) that was
>done OVER the low bar (facing inwards)?
>
No, though the double from the low bar does not seem that far fetched.
Consider that the best double tucks off the HB should rotate at least at bar
height. If so, then a gymnasts with good technique and rotational speed
should be able to perform a double off LB. Now a 2/1 full off of low would
be AMAZING! (Anyone ever seen a 3/1 dismount?)
>
>Thanks....I'll have FX and vault questions soon, then I'll get to the men'
>s events.
>
>
>
>Jeff
>

Rich


------------------------------

End of GYMN-L Digest - 4 Dec 1995 to 5 Dec 1995
***********************************************