Subject:  GYMN-L Digest - 4 Oct 1995

There are 15 messages totalling 472 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WORLDS: day 3, women, AA (2)
  2. ESPN Coverage-my 2 cents worth
  3. Schedule for rest of Worlds
  4. Gymnastics Meets and how they work
  5. Gymnastics (long)
  6. T.V. ALERT
  7. Help--7-6-5 Rule?? (3)
  8. Teft okay?
  9. Worlds (3)
 10. Rotations Set?

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:18:50 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: WORLDS: day 3, women, AA

what happened to Svetlana Khorkina and Strug?

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:47:52 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: ESPN Coverage-my 2 cents worth

>As for the gymnastics, Miller was robbed.  She was the champion.  (As we
>now see by her performance at Worlds).  Moceanu was overscored at
>nationals ( I was there and I am a judge) and she was overscored at
>trials.  Miller's class and elegance should be rewarded in the general
>impression category over Karolyi and his latest political manuevers.

I agree that Dominique Moceanu was a bit overscored at the Nationals and
Trials (specifically on floor and bars), but she still should have come out
on top at Nationals, IMO, because of Shannon's balance beam break.  In
addition, I think Shannon (and many others) were overscored at Nationals also
- - what about Shannon's major knee bend during her optional bar routine, yet
she still scored a 9.75 - - so you can't really just single out Moceanu.

I think Shannon is a *great* gymnast, but I just think Dominique should get
more credit! She definitely can improve in some areas, but I think for her
age, she is amazing.  Yes, Shannon is ahead of her at Worlds, but, Dominique
had a major .3 deduction during her comp. bar routine.  Unlike Sabae, at
Nationals and Trials, Dominique hit all of her routines.  So, if (I know you
can "what if" everything...), you add that .3 back for a hit routine, she
could conceivably be ahead of Shannon...and the rest of the world! :) So, I
really don't think Nationals or Trials was a fluke!

Amy  :)

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:05:17 -0400
From:    ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: Schedule for rest of Worlds

The answer to that would be -- yes.

They are grouped according to their placement during compulsories only the
compulsory meet was done on a random draw.

The schedule is ...
Remember these are Japan's days not ours and they are 14 hours (EDT) ahead
of the USA.
Oct. 5
Team Optionals
9 - 12:30
Women's competition (rounds 1-2)
1:10 - 10:20 pm
Men's competition (rounds 1-4)

Oct. 6
Team Optionals
9 - 2:45
Women's competition (rounds 3-5)
3:10 - 9:50 pm
Men's competition (rounds 5-7)
9:50 - 10:20 pm
Awards Ceremony - men's

Oct. 7 (sat)
AA Optionals
9a - 7p
men's training
9a - 9p
women's scheduled training (2+2)
9a - 9p
Women's competition (rounds 6-11)
9p -9:30p
Awards Ceremony - Women's

Oct. 8
AA Optionals
1p - 4:20
Men's competition
4:20 - 4:50
Awards Ceremony - men's
6:30p - 8:50
Women's compeition
8:50 - 9:10
Awards Ceremony - women's

Oct. 9
Event Finals
3p - 6p
Men's FX, PH, R
Women's V, UB

Oct. 10
Event Finals
2:30 - 5:30
Men's V, PB, HB
Women's B, FX
5:30 - 6:10
Closing Ceremony
8pm



>Will the groupings for the team optionals be based on compulsory
>standings?  For the women, will there be four teams (ROM, US, RUS, CHN)
>in the finals like in Barcelona or six like in Dortmund?  When are they?
>
>-Emily

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:24:10 -0400
From:    ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: Re: Gymnastics Meets and how they work

>Could someone please explain to me how the championships work.
>1. What is the difference between compulsories and optionals?

Compulsory routine is the one decided by "a committee" appointed by the
FIG.  The routines are done right after each olympic to allow the gymnast
to prepare and perfect the routine by the following olympic games.  1996
are the last olympic games that will have compulsories, so they will not be
putting together another routine after this one.

Optional routine is the one that the gymnast and coach create based on the
code of points - trying to make the routine worth a 10.0 at an
international meet.


>2. Is the judging any different between the two?

The judges know how much the compulsory routine is worth (it is set out
when the routine is created) and they judge it based on that information.

An optional routine is far more difficult to judge, as they need to
determine which move was done, the execution of that move how it worked
with the previous and following move - then they begin to look at form, and
all the things that novice watcher looks for -- this is often the reason
that a casual view does not understand the score being shown, because they
don't know about bonus, connections, c, d & e moves.


>3. Since a country can only have three people in the all-around, who
>   tries for the all-around and do the scores start from zero?

As Rachele stated, for the AA and event finals they only count the score
that they recieve during that session, so yes the scores start from zero

>4. How is the team final determined?

Team score is the combined total of the compulsory score and the optional
scores - I posted the schedule earlier for reference as to what will be
coming up.

>5. Does everybody use the same movement and do the same routine in men's
>   and women's compulsories.

Yes, like I said before, this is a predetermined routine, if they deviate
from that routine they are supposed to be deducted.  ie:  women's vault is
supposed to be piked - it is harder to do a layout, but if a gymnast does a
layout they are supposed to receive a deduction because they have not done
the compulsory vault.


>6. If people are competing out of order, does that mean that this has to
>   with determining the team winner.

When you compete out of order, have an extra person on the podium, etc.
these are team deductions.  They take the team score and deduct anywhere
from 0.1 - 0.5 from the team total.

>7. So people are bumped down when others preform.  Is it good to preform
>   early or late?

Most of the time it is preferred to compete later and not earlier, although
in this case it seems to be working against people.  Now that the
compulsories have been completed they will compete the highest scoring
teams last and the highest scoring AA people last.

The event finals will be a random draw amongst the top 8 -- it is done in
such a way that the top four will be put in a pool and a random draw will
occur and they will go up last, while the lower scoring 4 will be randomly
drawn from within their group and they will be the first 4 up


>8.  Does anyone know of a television station anywhere in the world who
>   is going to have coverage of every gymanstics session at the Olympics.

As of now there is no planned thing like the triple cast .

>9.  Who will be covering the session for Gymn

From what I have heard the sessions for Gymn will be covered as they are
being covered at this World's as information becomes available it will be
posted.  A few people will be working the olympics who are members of Gymn,
and I am sure they will make a true effort to post impressions and results
as time allows.


I hope this helps clear up any questions --

Mayland

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 15:37:49 -0400
From:    ***@STYX.IOS.COM
Subject: Re: Gymnastics (long)

> Could someone please explain to me how the championships work.
> 1. What is the difference between compulsories and optionals?

In compulsories every gymnast must perform the same routines, in the
optionals they pick which moves they want to do and for the women their
own floor music. (Optional skills are usually harder and more fun to watch)


> 2. Is the judging any different between the two?

Yes, because the compulsory routines are automatically scored from a ten
in optionals men start from 9.0 and women from a 9.4. Usually compulsory
routines are scored tougher because the judges are looking for the
smallest errors, but other then that a fall is always a .5 deduction and
a step .1.

> 3. Since a country can only have three people in the all-around, who
>    tries for the all-around and do the scores start from zero?

The top three on the team are qualified into the all around, for the U.S.
I would assume that Dominque, Shannon, Jaycie and Kerri are looking for
the finals. It differs from team to team depending on who competes on all
apparatus because of the new 7-6-5 rule.  In the all around finals all
gymnasts start with zero to relieve the bias of team scores.

> 4. How is the team final determined? From the compulsories that are gymn
>    right know?

The team compulsories and optionals are added together to determine the
team champion.

> 5. Does everybody use the same movement and do the same routine in  men's
>    and women's compulsories.

The men's compulsories are different from the women's, but every male
gymnast does the same routines, and all female gymnasts do the same routines.

> 6. If people are competing out of order, does that mean that this has to
>    with determining the team winner.

If you are referring to the deductions recieved by Ukraine and Greece, it
could effect the teams standings especially when competitions are close.

> 7. So people are bumped down when others preform.  Is it good to preform
>    early or late?

It is best to perform in the last rather then first session because
scores tend to get higher as the competition goes along.

> 8.  Does anyone know of a television station anywhere in the world who
>    is going to have coverage of every gymanstics session at the Olympics.

I doubt if any will be covering all of the gymnastics, but it would be nice.

> Thanks

Lori

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 15:44:04 -0400
From:    ***@STYX.IOS.COM
Subject: Re: WORLDS: day 3, women, AA


> what happened to Svetlana Khorkina and Strug?
>

Khorkina is in 11th place and Strug is tied with Bogie for 14th


Lor

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:02:40 -0400
From:    ***@STYX.IOS.COM
Subject: T.V. ALERT


        The world Championships will be on, on Sunday @ 4 pm for two
hours on ABC.  It says team and individual all around competition, and
mentions China (mens defending champion) Romania (womens defending
champion) the U.S. and Belarus.  I hope that they do not attempt to show
mens team, mens all around, women's team and women's all around in just 2
hours!  It also says the commentators will be John Naber, Kathy Johnson
and Bart Conner.

Lori

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 16:53:17 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Help--7-6-5 Rule??

Can someone please tell me what the 7-6-5 rule is?  I've tried to guess by
reading your messages for the past couple weeks, but all I get is that it has
something to do with who competes.  Thanks!

--Meg

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:29:25 -0400
From:    ***@PHOENIX.PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: Help--7-6-5 Rule??

> Can someone please tell me what the 7-6-5 rule is?  I've tried to guess by
> reading your messages for the past couple weeks, but all I get is that it has
> something to do with who competes.  Thanks!
>
> --Meg
>
The 7-6-5 rule means that a team can have 7 competitors.  6 compete on
each event, and the top 5 scores for each event are counted towards the
team total.  This is new since the Barcelona Olympics.
-Emily

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:05:31 -0500
From:    ***@LULU.ACNS.NWU.EDU
Subject: Teft okay?

Hi everyone!

I was watching last night's coverage on ESPN as well, and wondered if anyone
knows if Katie Teft was okay? I'm sure this is old news by now, but I hadn't
heard anything about it and hope she's alright!

Thanks!

--Meighan

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:44:30 -0400
From:    ***@STYX.IOS.COM
Subject: Re: Help--7-6-5 Rule??

> Can someone please tell me what the 7-6-5 rule is?  I've tried to guess by
> reading your messages for the past couple weeks, but all I get is that it has
> something to do with who competes.  Thanks!
>
> --Meg
>
        The rule is that seven gymnasts can compete, six on each
apparatus, and the top five scores count in the team total.  Now the
weakest gymnast on each event can does not compete that particular event,
but can still compete on other apparatus.

Lori

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 18:34:30 -0400
From:    ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Worlds

> Sabae is the qualifier for the team -- all of the countries that have a
> team make it in the top 12 will be able to send a team to represent them at
> the olympics -- After that you have to be in the top 35 individuals and not
> have your team (country) make it, then you (the individual) may represent
> your country in the olympics.

Unless something has changed, it's the top 24, not the top 35
individuals -- 3 from the countries placing 13, 14, and 15; 2 from the
countries placing 16, 17, and 18; plus 9 more by score with a max of 1
per country.  And I *think*, but I'm *not* sure, that teams 13-18 can
decide later on who the 2 or 3 will be just as the top 12 can decide
later who will be on their team.

:)
Adriana

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:11:43 -0400
From:    ***@PHOENIX.PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Rotations Set?

When do the US coaches decide which althletes compete which event and in
what order?  Does anyone know the US women's order?  Will they again have
Miller, Moceanu, Phelps, and Strug do 4 events, Thompson and Kulikowski
do 3, and Arnold do 2?
-Emily

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Date:    Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:14:20 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Re: Worlds

Just a note to say that I know Adriana is correct for the team
placements earning individual bertsh to the Olympics.  I don't know
about the "9 more" part but hey, it sounds good.  ;)

Also, countries who do not qualify as teams but do have individual
berths DO get to pick their representatives.

Welcome back Adriana!

Rachele

|
| > Sabae is the qualifier for the team -- all of the countries that have a
| > team make it in the top 12 will be able to send a team to represent them at
| > the olympics -- After that you have to be in the top 35 individuals and not
| > have your team (country) make it, then you (the individual) may represent
| > your country in the olympics.
|
| Unless something has changed, it's the top 24, not the top 35
| individuals -- 3 from the countries placing 13, 14, and 15; 2 from the
| countries placing 16, 17, and 18; plus 9 more by score with a max of 1
| per country.  And I *think*, but I'm *not* sure, that teams 13-18 can
| decide later on who the 2 or 3 will be just as the top 12 can decide
| later who will be on their team.
|
| :)
| Adriana

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Date:    Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:59:22 +1000
From:    ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Worlds

> And I *think*, but I'm *not* sure, that teams 13-18 can
> decide later on who the 2 or 3 will be just as the top 12 can decide
> later who will be on their team.

Yep they can.  Australia usually falls into this category, and has a
Worlds trials to decide who gets to go.

Michelle

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 4 Oct 1995
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