GYMN-L Digest - 3 Dec 1995 to 4 Dec 1995

There are 25 messages totalling 631 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. The BAGA on the Information Super Highway
2. Swiss-Cup
3. Atlanta invite comments
4. Vault Deductions (3)
5. BB/UB moves (2)
6. Atlanta Invite (2)
7. TRIVIA: 1984 Olympics
8. Full Twisting Pak Salto
9. Bogi&Mohini's address
10. December IG
11. Alexis Brion
12. Atlanta Invitational
13. BB: QUESTIONS (3)
14. Galieva and Monica M music
15. vault question
16. Kasamatsu or Tsukahara?
17. Level 10 Bar Champ
18. Atlanta coverage....
19. Beam stuff

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 06:56:20 -0500
From: ***@ARGONET.CO.UK
Subject: The BAGA on the Information Super Highway

To all GYMNers,

I have been requested by the BAGA to circulate the following statement :


The British Amateur Gymnastic Association has proposed plans to join the
internet. A project is in hand to upgrade the computer equipment at their
headquarters at the Lilleshall National Sports Centre in the near future.
Discussions are under way as to what facilities will be available as the
intention is to provide not only access to information, such as results,
events and technical issues but to also form the basis of e-mail communication
between the National , Regional and Club organisations. The possibilty of
setting up a BAGA home page has been proposed.



(Rachele : May I request that this is statement is posted on the GYMN home
page. )


Many thanks,

John

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:43:59 EST
From: ***@COMPUSERVE.COM
Subject: Swiss-Cup

Here are the resultate of part two from the Swiss-Cup

Beam:
1. Podkopajeva 9,812
2. Chsuovitina 9.225
---------------------------
3. Koshnevnikova (KZK) 9.387
4. Grossenbacher (SUI) 9.237
5. Schnell (SUI) 9.200
6. Kreibich (GER) 8.875
7. Nyeste 8.850
8. Crisci (ITA) 8.625

Oksana Chusovitina was falling from the beam in the winners final.

Floor:
1. Chusovitina
2. Podkopajeva 9,275
--------------------------------
3. Piskoun 9.612
4. Koshnevnikova (KAS) 9.500
5. Kouril (AUT) 9.262
6. Grossenbacher (SUI) 9.250
7. Klemrath (GER) 9.137
8. Dsunsjak (UZB) 8.752

Podkopajeva was very great and wons two gold and two silver medals

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:29:58 -0400
From: ***@CAPITALNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Atlanta invite comments

>Anyone remember who else uses the smae music as Roza Galiyeva...
>oh yeah...doesn't Monica Martin of Spain use a variation of the
>same music...

Part of Elvis Stojko's "1492" program last year had that piece of music.
They called it "Frogs in Space".

>Speaking of music...anyone have any idea how long elena grosheva had
>to work with with and improvise with the floor ex music she used
>after leaving her tape at home...wonder if she got the tape from
>gutsu who has used that music in the past...

She got it in Ontario a few days prior to the Subway Challenge. It possibly
came from one of the Russian-now-Canadian coaches & their clubs, like Elvira
Saadi (Cambridge Kips), Sveta Degteva (Gymnastics Mississauga), or
Yelena Davydova (Oshawa Gemini). I thought they did a good job with it.

>Anyone have any insights on the rules for vault deductions...i think
>its a bit harsh to deduct so much of a score if the wrong vault number
>is flash...these are judges and should be skilled enought to judge
>any given vault at any given time...sure i agree that they will
>be able to pick the vault appart if they know what is coming but
>i think the rule is to harsh. AFter all correct me if i am wrong but
>with any of the other apparatus the athlete can change the routine
>in mid course to upgrade or water down with out getting a deduction.

The deduction for flashing an incorrect or no vault number is 0.3.
The number is flashed to establish the start value. Because vault
goes so quickly and there are three phases & the landing to evaluate,
judges don't have time to figure out the start value after the vault.
It's practically impossible to evaluate technique if you don't know
what they're supposed to do. You have to ask yourself things like
"was there sufficient twist?" "sufficient tuck"? "layout"?, "rotation"...?
The 0.3 deduction is in line with the deductions for insufficiencies
in technique (like when you tuck instead of stretch, like Marinescu's
vaults).

I have to go and watch the rest of my tapes now.

Regards,

Grace

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:15:23 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Vault Deductions

I have to agree that gymnasts should have to flash the vault number that
they will perform. I remember back to '84 vault finals where Szabo did
what looked like a tucked and piked cuervo's. BUt she turned her hands
slightly on the tucked one so that it was a Tsuk (or Kasamatsu depending
on the direction of the twist). I had a hard time figuring out what she
did with the real time vault viewing, but on multiple viewings, it
became more clear. Had I not known what vault she called, I could have
called it either way. Then, you have to ask, should there be a deduction for
two vaults for the same family, was there enought twist in the preflight
etc.

Funny, though. Seems were few deductions for throwing two vaults from the
same family during from '84 to '88.

Jeff

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 13:28:54 -0500
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Vault Deductions

On Dec 3, 1:15pm, Jeffrey Ruell wrote:
> Funny, though. Seems were few deductions for throwing two vaults from the
> same family during from '84 to '88.
-You weren't required to do vaults from different families in EF until 1989.
Chris

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Date: Sun, 12 Mar 1995 21:02:13 PST
From: ***@LSS.CO.ZA
Subject: BB/UB moves

Is a back hip circle on beam in the code? I was working it a while ago out
of a Shushunova mount. (arabspring on to board, straddle jump travelling
backwards over the beam to front support) But now I'm doing a Yurchenko
mount.
Helen.

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:19:08 -0500
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: BB/UB moves

> Subject: BB/UB moves
> Is a back hip circle on beam in the code? I was working it a while ago out
> of a Shushunova mount. (arabspring on to board, straddle jump travelling
> backwards over the beam to front support) But now I'm doing a Yurchenko
> mount.
> Helen.
-What do you mean by a Yurchenko mount? A Yurchenko loop from the side? A
layout-on from the board?
Chris

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:26:22 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Atlanta Invite

Just a few more comments/questions about the Atlanta Invite:

First of all, I totally agree with George about it being strange that they
tried to make it look like the whole meet took place on the same day....I
really don't understand the point - what's wrong with explaining it was a two
day competition?

Secondly, I am *really* confused about what happened with Marinescu's vaults!
When I attended the meet, I saw the 0.00 flashed for the 2nd vault, I was
not too sure what had happened. Then, I read the reports on GYMN and I
assumed (perhaps mistakenly) that there was a technical glitch with the
scoreboard since they were having some difficulties with the electronic
equipment, causing them to correct her scores. However, the TV coverage
implied that it was Alexandra's mistake because she flashed the wrong vault
number and then went before the green light. But, it seems to me that it
must not have been her mistake because her first vault score was changed from
a 9.312 to a 9.687 so, obviously, they didn't just add the .3 back for
flashing the wrong number. I find it especially weird that the judges would
just decide not to take the necessary deductions if it was truly Marinescu's
mistake. I'm thinking about this year's Visa Challenge when Dom Moceanu
*did* receive a deduction for calling the wrong vault. Can anyone clear up my
confusion??

I really thought the coverage was better than usual, though. As someone
already mentioned, even the "fluff" was good! :) I was especially amazed at
the admission by Roza Galieva (and Coach Alexandrov) that she was not truly
injured at the '92 Olympics and that Gutsu was substituted into the AA
because of the intense pressure on the Soviet coaches to bring home medals.
I know many people assumed this was the case, but wasn't this the first time
that anyone talked about it in the open?!

Amy

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 14:35:16 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: TRIVIA: 1984 Olympics

OK, gang, it's obvious that the topic "non Eastern-Bloc medalists" was a dud
<g>, so let's try the above topic, "1984 Olympics."

Send all questions to me on "1984 Olympics" via private e-mail to this
address.
:-)
Mara

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:15:56 -0800
From: ***@EFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Full Twisting Pak Salto

>
> Level 10 Danae Phillips (National Academy of Artistic, Washington) does a
> great full twisting pak salto on bars. She was the 17+ National Bars Champ at
> JO Nationals and was 7th AA.

Actually Danae trains at the NAAG here in Eugene, Oregon. Probably
better known as the gym where Tracee Talavera and Julianne MacNamara
trained. Danae is a very sweet person and has decided to stay close to
home and compete for Oregon State University. The full twisting pak is a
beautiful move, what I wouldn't give to see Khorkina do it!

Katie

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:40:54 -0800
From: ***@EFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Atlanta Invite

Hello Gymners,

> I was especially amazed at
> the admission by Roza Galieva (and Coach Alexandrov) that she was not truly
> injured at the '92 Olympics and that Gutsu was substituted into the AA
> because of the intense pressure on the Soviet coaches to bring home medals.

Well, if you ask me, Roza and Kerri Strug should go out for tea because
they have a lot in common. It was frustrating to me back in 92 and even
now when the US Commentators go out of their way to paint the other
countries' competitors as underhanded, then look the other way at some of
Karolyi's antics! The suspicion that Rosa wasn't really injured made the
front page of my papers sports section, "They Sent Their Best for a
Reason." However, the paper failed to detail how Karolyi shredded
Kerri's routines to ensure Kim's spot in the all-around.

I can't disagree that Kim had a better chance than Kerri, I can't
disagree that Gutsu had a better chance than Rosa, but when will they air
the Kerri Strug interview where she gets to talk about her Olympic dream
being denied for the same reason? Then will the US commentators say the US
coaches are "up to their old dirty tricks again?"

Being from the US, I have never heard other commentators, so feel free to
correct me if this happens all over the world. I just think we are
kidding ourselves if we think that competitions this close, with this
much riding on them, involve no politicking on anyone's team except the
Soviets. (Personally, I suspect those sneaky Antartican's, they always
have something up their sleeve....)

Katie

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 16:13:06 -0500
From: ***@EOS.NCSU.EDU
Subject: Bogi&Mohini's address

Does anyone have the address for their gym?

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 20:50:15 -0500
From: ***@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: December IG

I went back through my December issue of Internationbal Gymnast.
Previously I stated that the main stories seem repetitive.....They were
less repetitive than I thought. One was about the all-around and one was
about the event finals. I thought the stories were very thorough, I
really like them. The pictures in the IG were great. The ones of
Svetlana Khorkina and Lilia Podkapayeva hugging and the one with Yelena
Grosheva in tears, 2 of my favorites. There was a paragraph talking
about how emotionless the US team was/is.....I agree. These pictures
said a lot. It isn't very frequently that we see such emotion from
gymnasts, especially toward others from another team. I can't wait until
the next World's....I hope to see Dominique Dawes, Amanda Borden, Amy
Chow, and even Kim Zmeskal, do well, if they are there.
Gymnly Yours,
Aaron

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 20:52:36 -0500
From: ***@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Alexis Brion

Thanks a lot for the bio on Alexis!
I was wondering, since the bio. was from 1993 and talked about some huge
tricks Alexis was training, what kind of tricks is she performing. I've
seen a couple of pictures of her, she is a tiny little thing, but I
haven't seen her compete at all. Thanks.
Aaron

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 20:56:25 -0500
From: ***@EXPERT.CC.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Atlanta Invitational

I sadly missed the coverage of the Atlanta Invitational. I had to work.
I had the t.v. at my workplace on TBS, but it was in the "dining room".
I know it wasn't on at 1:00, and I believe it still wasn't on at 1:30.
Did it start at 2:00? The last chance(s) I had to check the t.v.,
Legends of the Sport was on. From what I have read on here, I would
like to see the invitational. If anyone can make copies, and would be
willing to sell me a "nice" one, I would be happy to, shipping included.
Thanks in advance!
Aaron

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 22:28:06 -0500
From: ***@PHARM.MED.UPENN.EDU
Subject: Re: BB: QUESTIONS


> 1) Anyone ever seen a double layout dismount?

NO

> 2) Anyone ever seen more than a full twist performed on the
> beam?
yes, kristy phillips and a chinese girl, and lorna morrison (Great Britian a
number of years ago) RO full twist onto the beam
>
> 3) Is a glide kip a rated move on beam? (Some gymnasts could do
> it!)
No, have only seen back hip circles(B or C) - planche (D) or back flip to
back hip circle

The above answers curtousey of Sunja Knapp (National team "85-88)

I don't remember where it will be held, but I do know it won't be in the dome.


>P.S. I noticed a that the America's Cup will be held in Atlanta this coming
>year. Anyone know if its will be in the Dome or in the Omni? They've held
>the Mixed Pairs in the Omni before in '93. Thats when I saw it. They also
>held mixed pairs in '91 on teh Georgia Tech campus ('96 Olympic Village and
>I saw it there, too), but the stadium is being renovated as the Boxing
>site.
>
>

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 20:44:55 -0700
From: ***DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU
Subject: Re: BB: QUESTIONS


> Jeff asked: ------
>
> > 2) Anyone ever seen more than a full twist performed on the
> > beam?
> yes, kristy phillips and a chinese girl, and lorna morrison (Great Britian a
> number of years ago) RO full twist onto the beam

Did Kristy Phillips do one? I don't remember her ever performing
that skill... I have to mention tho that a RO full twist mount is known
as a Garrison-Steves. Kelly debuted her mount in 1985 Worlds (or was it
'87? One of the two...).
As for Jeff's original quesiton, I believe that he meant more
than a full twist during a flip onto the beam. I have never heard of such
a move. Anyone want to tackle that one? :)


Cara

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:30:00 MST
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Re: BB: QUESTIONS

>
> 1) Anyone ever seen a double layout dismount?
>

Look back in an old IG, I believe in '89 or thereabouts -- there is a report
on a visit to a Romanian gym, I believe Truimf Bucharest? One of the young
girls in that article, if I remember correctly, was successfully training a
double layout dismount off of beam. But I've not heard of someone competing it.

Jeff/Mayland said:
>> 2) Anyone ever seen more than a full twist performed on the
>> beam?
>yes, kristy phillips and a chinese girl, and lorna morrison (Great Britian a
>number of years ago) RO full twist onto the beam

Well, the RO full-twist onto the beam was done by several more than these --
eg., Kelly Garrison, who has it named after her (I believe for performing it
in the '88 Olympics, but I could be wrong). I didn't know that Kristy
Phillips did this -- I thought it was just a straight layout.

But Jeff's question, I think, was more: has there ever been more than a full
twist in terms of number of revolutions, not as in the connections.

Speaking of number of rotations, as opposed to revolutions, there was one
girl, a long time ago, who was training a *double back* to swingdown (double
Chen, I guess) in the *middle* of the beam (ie not even a mount from a
springboard, but just right in the middle of the beam). I think it was
Kristy Powell, but can't guarantee it.

Full-twisting Pak salto -- I know I've heard this mentioned in a recent (ie
last year) issue of IG, but can't remember the particulars. (I'm obviously
not near my IG's, else I'll look it up myself.)

The American Cup will be held at Georgia Tech (ie not the Omni, not the Dome).

Rachele

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 22:55:03 CDT
From: ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: Galieva and Monica M music

Galieva's and Monica's music is by Jam and Spoon, yes Jam and Spoon.
I don't think it is called Frogs in Space though(Stoyko's). I've got
the CD but I'm not at home so I can't give the name.

Shawn

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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 00:35:09 -0500
From: ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: vault question

What exactly makes a double twist vault (a yurchenko full) harder than
a double full on floor. On floor it seems that anyone can do a double full
but on vault it is rare.

My guess would be that unlike floor you have no round off to generate
the required speed and momentum. Also I suspect the block off the horse
adds to the complexity
(i.e. not being able to use the right technique to transfer the energy
built up in the run, block, and complete two twists)

thanks...

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Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 21:58:44 -0800
From: ***@MCN.ORG
Subject: Kasamatsu or Tsukahara?

I know there is a difference between a Kasamatsu and a layed-out Tsukahara
with a full twist, but I'm more confused all the time what that difference
is. Some people say it's the direction of the twist and others say it's when
the twist occurs. A Kasamatsu looks like a 1/4 turn onto the horse as
opposed to 1/2. Is this the difference?

Could someone please clarify?

Thanks,

Orion

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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:14:17 -0500
From: ***@DELPHI.COM
Subject: Level 10 Bar Champ

>Subj: Full Twisting Pak Salto
>Date: 95-12-02 18:04:17 EST

>Level 10 Danae Phillips (National Academy of Artistic, Washington) does a
>great full twisting pak salto on bars. She was the 17+ National Bars Champ
>at
>JO Nationals and was 7th AA.

>Jessica
Hmmmm... Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the '95 17+ JO Bar Champ
Denise Jones from Gymagic Gymnastics in Sacramento?
bjcorr@delphi.com

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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 02:32:58 -0500
From: ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Vault Deductions


> On Dec 3, 1:15pm, Jeffrey wrote:
> > Funny, though. Seems were few deductions for throwing two vaults from the
> > same family during from '84 to '88.
> -You weren't required to do vaults from different families in EF until 1989.
> Chris
>

To be exact, from '85-'89. I believe the rule existed prior to that cycle.

:)
Adriana

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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:42:59 -0600
From: ***@LULU.ACNS.NWU.EDU
Subject: Atlanta coverage....

Hi everyone!

I know that others have made requests as well, but I too missed the coverage
this past weekend-- I'm hip-deep in finals right now! I would be so grateful
if someone would let me send them a tape and dub it for me; I was on hiatus
from gymnastics coverage for about three years, and now that I'm involved in
it again I hate to miss an event...Please let me know!

THANKS!! :)

--Meighan

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Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 02:30:30 -0600
From: ***@EDEN.COM
Subject: Beam stuff

I remember seeing in an old IG stop action photos of Kelly Garrison
performing her full on mount LONG before the '88 Olypmics. Did she ever
qualify to a World Championships? She was hurt in '86 (Goodwill, Cup year),
and I didn't see the '87 Worlds. Wasn't Sabrina Marr the only American
gymnast to qualify for an event final in that Worlds? If so, Kelly is
unlikely to have debuted her full on. Why risk your country's Olympic
ranking with that mount? If she had qualified to AA finals.... But I don't
remember '87 World's (except for the big guns, of course).

Kristie Phillips never twisted on (or onto) beam that I remember. Her mount
was the press to front limber (named), so why mount with a full on? I never
really remember her as being very strong, just very limber. [Then again she
looked buff at the '88 Olympic trials.]

Lats,

Rich


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End of GYMN-L Digest - 3 Dec 1995 to 4 Dec 1995
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