GYMN-L Digest - 22 Jun 1995 to 23 Jun 1995

There are 20 messages totalling 471 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. O U C H !
2. AS God is my witness...... (4)
3. USA vs. UKR
4. European cup coverage
5. Chinese Leos & Olomouc (2)
6. TV Alert (3)
7. Is there someone in Britain? (2)
8. Old???!!!
9. Combining Men's and Women's meets
10. I'm trying.
11. Budget meet
12. US-UKR women (2)

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 01:40:28 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: O U C H !

Hi :o)

>How about the lowest score for a completed routine in international
>competition?<

How about lowest scores for "A Major Competition"

NBI, National Boys Invitational, the longest running optional Boys meet in
the USA Hosted by Gymnastrum My home gym in Allentown PA. My first year
moving up into what was then Class 3 C & O. My first shot at optionals all
the parents and spectators were watching since I was the last competitor to
finish the rotation. Good old Fred Turrof, the coach of Temple, was judging.
A horrible routine was preformed however one never expected what was about
to happen.

The score was flashed "1.2" Talk about embarsing.

My coach didn't even know what to say.

Top This One "Please"

:o) Carl

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 01:44:16 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: AS God is my witness......

Whats the Olumouc Games is it like the Olympics?
Emily

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 06:16:26 -0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: USA vs. UKR

|
| Date sent: 22-JUN-1995 17:09:15
| Could someone please post the scores from USA VS UKR?
| Thanks

Jennifer, the scores have already been posted twice (thnx Mara,
George) (along with other very complete reports from George -- thanks
George!). Check out the Gymn digests to find that post, which was
probably on the Sunday after the meet.

Q: If I were a Gymn digest, then where would I be?
A: gopher/ftp: ftp.cac.psu.edu,
WWW: http://rainbow.rmii.com/~rachele/digests.html

Rachele

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 09:06:04 CDT
From: ***@ADMIN.STEDWARDS.EDU
Subject: European cup coverage

Last night I was watching Turning Point (or one of those news capsule shows)
and ABC ran an ad for this weekend's WWOS. The ad announced that the women's
competition of the European Cup was to be broadcast this Saturday?!
Did they change their schedule? I guess so, since
TV Guide lists the men's coverage for this weekend. Anyone know what's up?

Cole

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 10:57:55 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Chinese Leos & Olomouc

>>1) Does anyone know what the uniform violation that the Chinese female
gymnasts had forced upon them by the judges at Barcelona?<<

>Believe it or not, they took the deduction becuase the leos were cut (or
pulled up) too high in the hips/bottom area!<

Just for the sake of trivia, it's a 0.2 deduction when too much flesh is
showing.

>>2) Anyone know how to located video coverage of Olumouc, '84, the
alternaet Olympics where Mostepanova was awesome?<<

>If anyone does, *please* cc me on the info!<

Me too! It seems that's the single most sought-after meet of all, and I've
yet to run into anyone who has it.

:)
Adriana

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 10:00:45 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Re: AS God is my witness......

Olumouc was the "alternate Olympics" for 1984, where the Soviet led boycott
nations completed. The city is in the former Czechovolkia (sp?) and
at these games, Olga MOstepanova recieved a perfect 40 pts in the
all around.

Jeff

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 11:48:51 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: AS God is my witness......

<sigh> I feel old...

I'll post to the list just in case anyone else is wondering:

"Olomouc", also known as the "Alternate Games", was the games held in
Olomouc, Czechoslovakia, by the countries that boycotted the '84 LA Games.
Olga Mostepanova scored a 40.0 in all-around finals (in fact, she scored 12
10.0's over 15 routines [she wasn't in UB finals]). The women's meet as a
whole had something in the neighborhood of 25-30 10.0's awarded, if I
remember correctly (talk about suspect scoring...). The men had somewhat
fewer (at least as compared to the number of events). Anyway...

:)
Adriana

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 11:49:15 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: TV Alert

>The field is thin, the stands are empty, but put your party hats on anyway.<

They would not have been quite so empty had the men's and women's meet been
run concurrently... Is there a reason why they couldn't have been? It
doesn't take a crystal ball to know that, at least in this country, few
people will stick around from 2:00 to 9:30, and that most people will choose
to show up for the women's meet. Especially considering that most of the
audience consists of parents dragged out there by their young (read: short
attention span) children. And even of the people who *did* stay, most were
parents (and/or coaches) with little girls. There are not hordes of little
boy gymnasts out there who can fill those stands (there aren't even hordes of
girls). Often little boys get dragged to these things because of their
sisters anyway. This is not to say that there's any problem with females
being the audience for men's gymnastics (heck, no! ;-), but if we're going to
try to boost the participation in and popularity of men's, we have to get it
out there when the audience, especially the male audience, is most likely to
be around.

Just my $0.02
Adriana

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 11:27:43 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Is there someone in Britain?

According to the big Lycos Server, there is a land address for
EuroSport, but not a direct email address. If there is someone in
Britain or Europe who has access to a directory of britain, could you
see if there is and eamil address?



Help appreciated!!!!



Jeff

P.S. Andriana, don't feel old. I was 16 when Olga was perfect!

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 11:54:47 CDT
From: ***@ADMIN.STEDWARDS.EDU
Subject: Old???!!!

>
> Jeff
>
> P.S. Andriana, don't feel old. I was 16 when Olga was perfect!
>
Hush, you two! I was 24!! :)


Cole

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 18:02:35 BST
From: ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Re: Chinese Leos & Olomouc

> > Believe it or not, they took the deduction becuase the leos were cut
> > (or pulled up) too high in the hips/bottom area!
>
> Just for the sake of trivia, it's a 0.2 deduction when too much flesh is
> showing.

Yes, another case of that is recently Magdalena Brzeska, the German rhythmic
gymnast, was deducted 0.02 for the same thing. However, they put in a
protest afterwards and the deduction was reduced to 0.01. There's a picture
of her leotard in the latest issue of _Gym Stars_, judge for yourselves for
those of you who get the mag.

Sherwin

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 18:03:39 BST
From: ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Re: TV Alert

Adriana says,

> but if we're going to
> try to boost the participation in and popularity of men's, we have to get it
> out there when the audience, especially the male audience, is most likely to
> be around.

I agree totally. I started out as a womens fan but I went to the last
couple of Birmingham Classics where they fit 10 men and 10 women together all
doing their routines within a 2 & 1/2 hour period. It draws my attention to the
mens more. There are many aspects of the mens game which is more appealing
than the womens, e.g. strength elements on rings, height of releases on high
bar, longer landing distance on vaulting, etc. just to name a few specific
topics...

Anyway if it's a major meet with loads of competitors then of course they'll
need to split them up, but for smaller meets then I don't see why don't they
put them together. I know that'll mean routines being performed simultaneously
but I think that is at least better than for the mens to perform at a near
empty stadium separately. It's more exciting for the crowd to see many things
at the same time (though more confusing of course) and surely the mens
gymnasts will appreciate having a bigger crowd cheering on.

Much of the general public (e.g. parents) I feel will more be inclined to go
a meet knowing that it'll finish within a few hours, rather than going to one
when it'll last the good part of a whole day. They'll probably just go to part
of it and it's likely as Adriana says that it'll be the womens part.

Also won't it cost less for the federation to organise the meet taking place
at one short time rather than over a longer period.

Sherwin
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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 18:05:37 BST
From: ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Re: Is there someone in Britain?

> According to the big Lycos Server, there is a land address for
> EuroSport, but not a direct email address. If there is someone in
> Britain or Europe who has access to a directory of britain, could you
> see if there is and eamil address?

I didn't know there is an E-mail address for EuroSport but I'll have a
look...

Sherwin

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 13:42:01 -0400
From: ***@A1.CSOC.UMC.DUPONT.COM
Subject: Re: TV Alert

I'd like to publicly thank David and NBC for giving mens gymn a
chance in a prime sport's time slot. I know that he has pointed
out to us in the past that men's gymnastics do not draw the same
size audience as women's gymn and therefore are not given the
same amount of coverage. It is purely a business decision. With
that in mind, it seems as if David has listened to our pleas, put
on his big pants, and told NBC that they should give the men a
shot. Thank you, David!


Jim

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 11:56:39 -0700
From: ***@LELAND.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Combining Men's and Women's meets

I just thought I'd put in my thoughts about the possibility that the
Budget meet could have been combined. Personally, I am opposed to that,
but then that's from a photographer's standpoint. As Sherwin pointed out,
combining the meet probably would have meant simultaneous performances,
and that means fewer photo ops. I had enough trouble trying to get as
many routines as possible with alternating routines. Of course, maybe I
wouldn't have gone through 23 rolls of film if the routines had been
simultaneous. :}

Photos aside, I think that I would still have a preference for at least
non-simultaneous routines (although that could make for one marathon
session), if not separate sessions. Even if I weren't photographing, I'd
still want to see all of the routines.

Now, removing my personal preferences, I have to admit that a combined
meet format would be better (in a dual-meet situation) for the men, and
possibly better for everyone concerned (except maybe the press), at least
until the point where the events are selling out on a regular basis.
Then the organizers would probably insist on splitting the meet to sell
more tickets.

This may have been the thinking for this meet (more sessions=more ticket
sales), but I don't know if there were separate tickets for the men's
and women's. I seem to remember that one ticket got you into both sessions,
but then, I forgot a camera bag in Alix's car. :)

The logistics of 8 apparatuses (that's what Webster says) set up at once might
also have caused some
concern, especially since this was a podium meet. OTOH, the Arena floor
should have been big enough for that many podia (love that Latin!).

Am I missing an obvious reason (tradition?) why the meet was split?
As I said, I preferred it, but it does seem that it would have made more
sense to do it all in one session. Was this NBC's doing for broadcast
purposes so that they could broadcast only the men's competition in
its entirety?

-Patrick

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 14:26:58 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: I'm trying.

I've contacted the local ABC station and told them of my plight and I
have contacted accouple of BBC people and asked about Eurosport.

My guess is that they would have covered it. They were in Moscow, I
believe, in 1980, so why not Olumouc?


Others: UNIT and contact you local affliates and ask about how to contact
Eurosport. Perhaps if we make enough noise, they may do something!!!!



United we march, divided we fall off H-bar.



Jeff

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 16:39:03 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Budget meet

<<I'd like to publicly thank David and NBC for giving men's gym a chance in a
prime sport's time slot.>>

While I support NBC's airing of the men's portion of the competition, is
there anyone else out there who is dissappointed we'll only get limited
women's coverage? Since the women are ranked so far ahead of the men AND are
more popular, don't they deserve prime coverage? Wouldn't a better solution
have been to air two separate broadcasts, similar to how ABC usually handles
things? Don't flame me, because I'm not saying dump the men! It's just that
I'd been looking forward to this meet since last year's when NBC did such a
wonderful job.

Didn't mean to offend any men gymnasts!!!

Ann Marie

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 19:11:46 -0400
From: ***@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject: US-UKR women

I, too, am glad we'll be seeing the men, but would like to see the women
too. But I was thinking... The USGF used to tape the US-USSR dual meets and
sell the videos. Does anyone know if USAG taped the women's competition of the
US-UKR meet? If not, there's GOT to be someone out there who did; there were
definitely people in the stands with video cameras. Hopefully some of them are
on gymn! OR - this is for you David - could NBC put together a video of the
women's competition and sell it like the "America's Best" videos? I have no
doubt there'd be a market! :)

Beth

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 18:59:57 -0700
From: ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: AS God is my witness......

> Olumouc was the "alternate Olympics" for 1984, where the Soviet led boycott
> nations completed. The city is in the former Czechovolkia (sp?) and
> at these games, Olga MOstepanova recieved a perfect 40 pts in the
> all around.
A perfect 40!?!?!? That I've got to see!! E-mail me if you get
any videos on it.

Laura :)

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Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 19:06:26 -0700
From: ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: US-UKR women

Does anyone know if John Whitmore from _Sports-Image_ was there?

Laura :)


> I, too, am glad we'll be seeing the men, but would like to see the women
> too. But I was thinking... The USGF used to tape the US-USSR dual meets and
> sell the videos. Does anyone know if USAG taped the women's competition of the
> US-UKR meet? If not, there's GOT to be someone out there who did; there were
> definitely people in the stands with video cameras. Hopefully some of them are
> on gymn! OR - this is for you David - could NBC put together a video of the
> women's competition and sell it like the "America's Best" videos? I have no
> doubt there'd be a market! :)
>
> Beth
>

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 22 Jun 1995 to 23 Jun 1995
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