gymn Digest                 Thu, 23 Feb 95       Volume 3 : Issue  73

Today's Topics:
                          2 vaults (2 msgs)
                        A Couple of Questions
                      American Classic (4 msgs)
                  American Classic Comments (2 msgs)
                American Classic Postscript  (3 msgs)
                   American Classic senior comments
                    American Cup prelims question
                        Autobiography (2 msgs)
                     beam flight series (2 msgs)
                      CAL/STANFORD/UCSB (4 msgs)
                         cal beating stanford
                             competition
                               conrad
                                  Hi
    New England Championships, Mens's NCAA, March 4 @ MIT (2 msgs)
                                Photos
                           Reposting Bogi ?
                          Shannon's routines
        the slip-grip historical note to what Adriana wrote...
                          UGA-UF-UM Tri-meet

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:46:01 EST
From: ***@prodigy.com
Subject: 2 vaults

I think this is something new for this year, where they give you bonus
if you do two different vaults and one is an E .....something like
that.....it just started this year. LYnn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 12:51:47 EST
From: ***@prodigy.com
Subject: 2 vaults

I think they started something new this year where if the gymnast does
two different vaults  and one of them is an E they get bonus ,or
something like that ...If the vault or dismount is an E and they stick
the landing....then they also can get bonus for the stick! Lynn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 9:52:11 EST
From: ***@expert.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: A Couple of Questions

Someone mentioned a while back or I heard somewhere that Dominique
had injured her foot.  My grandmother just sent me an article in
from the Feb. 15 (I think) USA Today that said it was a stress
fracture but that she would probably be competing in Paris next
month.  I don't recall seeing a meet scheduled for over there,
but I could be wrong.  Does this mean that she is not competing
in the American Cup as well?

Also, has anyone heard from / about Michelle Campi lately?
Or, better yet, Michelle, are you out there and how is
your recovery going?

Lori

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 18:11:46 -0800 (PST)
From: ***@calvin.linfield.edu
Subject: American Classic

My apologies if the answer to this has already been posted but does
anyone know if/when the American Classic will be televised?

Sarah

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 11:46:09 +0600
From: ***@scoter.cdev.com
Subject: American Classic

>
> My apologies if the answer to this has already been posted but does
> anyone know if/when the American Classic will be televised?
>
> Sarah

It is not listed in the calendar that I distributed last month.
I picked up USAG's latest event schedule from Delphi last week
but I haven't looked at it yet. Maybe something is listed in
there. I'll check it tonight.

--John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 15:23 PST
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: American Classic

You are not going to believe this, but Shannon Miller had the best
chaine turns in the FX compulsory.. they were beautiful.. way better
than Bogys... when she performed them, a friend of mine (former ballet
dancer) and I both exclaimed simultaneously "Those were so good!!!"

Strange things were afoot at Oakland, CA...

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 21:30:36 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Subject: American Classic

> You are not going to believe this, but Shannon Miller had the best
> chaine turns in the FX compulsory.. they were beautiful.. way better
> than Bogys... when she performed them, a friend of mine (former ballet
> dancer) and I both exclaimed simultaneously "Those were so good!!!"
>
> Strange things were afoot at Oakland, CA...

I don't have a bit of trouble believing this.  Bogi's style may be
artistic and beautiful and her presence may be impressive, but she's never
been balletish.  Shannon's dance technique is really very good and she's
always had a much more conventional style, so I think chaines would suit
her much better.

I find the compulsory pretty hideous though.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 95 9:47:25 EST
From: ***@expert.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: American Classic Comments

First of all, thanks to everyone for all the American Classic updates.
Those of us who are stuck in front of our computers really appreciate it!

I have a bunch of comments and questions on all the American Classic
stuff that has been going around.  I will try to attribute everything
to the right person but I won't promise everything.

>From ***@aol.com Sun Feb 19 23:29:55 1995
>>I'm sorry I didn't see Gail Kachura or Kinsey Rowe on beam.  Maybe
>> someone else can comment on their routines?
>
>Gail (from the Virigina and not the Austin "Capital") had a *huge* double
>layout to 2 feet out of FF, LO step-out combo and a generally clean and
>difficult set. Kinsey (tallest ever Cypress kid) had the same combo I think
>(LO legs together seems popular and these two did it best) and a running
>front among other things for the highest beam score of the day (Jr. that is).
>Someone tried a  double front off BB but missed.

A *double* layout off or on beam?  The description sounds like it was a
skill done on beam but I can't imagine that is correct.  A double layout
off beam is still pretty impressive.


From: ***@rmii.com
>The girls who made the Pan Am team are Miller, Borden, Chow, Powell
>(four seniors) and Moceanu, Teft, and Thompson (three juniors).  They

Quite a few of these gymnast are invited to compete in the American Cup
and, I would assume, the Mixed Pairs Competition.  Are they all waiting
until after those competitions do head to Argentina for the Pan Am Games?
I saw that Miller may not attend but I would think there would be
conflicts with some of the others as well.


Also, it's good to hear that Shannon has finally changed her routines
around a bit and even better to hear that she has added more difficulty
into her floor routine (and others as well).  Hopefully, she and the
other older Seniors can hang on until the Olympics.


Lori

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 14:30:06 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: American Classic Comments

>A *double* layout off or on beam?  The description sounds like it was a
>skill done on beam but I can't imagine that is correct.  A double layout
>off beam is still pretty impressive.

Of course I meant a *layout* and my fingers just typed along ahead of me ...
Oops!

-Susan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 10:34:17 -0500
From: ***@orl.mmc.com
Subject: American Classic Postscript

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

FYI I found out last night that Mohini Bhardwaj is an alternate to the Pan Am
Team. They did not want to publicise it too much, but the general consensus is that Shannon will NOT be attending. Since 8th & 9th place are both juniors, Mo
becomes the alternate.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:50:34 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@rmii.com
Subject: American Classic Postscript

|
|FYI I found out last night that Mohini Bhardwaj is an alternate to the Pan Am
|Team. They did not want to publicise it too much, but the general consensus is that Shannon will NOT be attending. Since 8th & 9th place are both juniors, Mo
| becomes the alternate.

Well, two things, just for the record (fwiw), in the post-competition
interview, Shannon Miller said she didn't know if she'd be competing
at Pan Am Games or not.  (Quotes to the press are certainly not
absolute truths, naturally.  ;)

But more importantly, if Miller didn't go to Pan Ams, the next gymnast
in line is Jaycie Phelps, who is 8th and is a senior.  She'll be 16 in
September.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 10:29:50 -0500
From: ***@orl.mmc.com
Subject: American Classic Postscript

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>>But more importantly, if Miller didn't go to Pan Ams, the next gymnast
>>in line is Jaycie Phelps, who is 8th and is a senior.  She'll be 16 in
>>September.

No. Mo has been named as the Pan Am alternate according to Rita Brown.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 10:43:01 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu
Subject: American Classic senior comments

I was just wondering - what is the point value of the Hristakieva now?
I'm glad it was devalued, because although it has a blind landing, I
didn't think it was fair that vaults with 1 or 1 1/2 more twists should
have the same starting value. That's why the Yurchenko full was devalued,
right?! I also want to know - what other skills were devalued?
                                              Beth =]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:37:36 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: American Cup prelims question

This question is for anyone who has attended an American Cup prelims.  How
long does the preliminary competition usually last?  I'm trying to figure out
how late I'll be out that night.  Any input is appreciated, thanks.---Brian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 15:33:04 -0800 (PST)
From: ***@vpl.vancouver.bc.ca
Subject: Autobiography

Hello to all Gymn readers:

Just thought I'd introduce myself.  My name's Lorraine and I've just
joined this group.  I'm so happy I found it.  I'm not a former gymnast
(unless you want to count some lessons in high school - longer ago than I
care to remember), but I've been a die-hard fan for more than twenty years.
I follow the international scene very closely, and I like to collect
videos of major meets.  I first became interested when I saw Olga Korbut
at the 1972 Olympics, and I've been hooked ever since :-).

Currently, my favourite gymnasts are Elena Piskun, Lilia Podkopayeva and
particularly Svetlana Khorkina - I think she's the best thing to happen
to women's gymnastics in years.  I find most of the Romanians to be
clones of one another, although the youngster Alexandra Marinescu looks
very promising - a lovely, elegant style. 

I'm a skating fan too (and a very enthusiastic newbie skater :-) ), but
gymnastics will always be No. 1 with me.  I'm going down to Seattle next
week to see the American Cup and Mixed Pairs.  Can't wait!

I'm really looking forward to reading this group.

Take care,
Lorraine

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 20:59:42 -0600 (CST)
From: ***@ttacs1.ttu.edu
Subject: autobiography

Hello!  My name is Misti and I have recently joined the gymn group.  I am 21
years old and presently attend Texas Tech University in Lubbock, Texas.  I am a
junior business major origianlly from the Dallas area.  I have competed what
use to be USGF, and also AGA for 5 years.  I coached and judged gymnastics for
2 years before attending college.

Since going away to college I have coached at Karolyi's summer camps.  In the
Fall of 1994 we started a gymnastics club at Texas Tech University.  I am
presently the sec/treas and we are doing fairly well.  We compete against TCU,
ACU, A&M, UT and SWTS.  I have also been able to travel to Russia with my
ballet professor, which was an awesom experience.

I love to sit around and whatch gymnastics tapes over and over again, as well
as helping out with routines and such.  I plan to get my level 5&6 judging
certification within the next year.  After graduation I plan to continue
judging, and would like to coach at a gym either part or full time.

I love the sport of gymnastics very much, and enjoy learning everything
possible about it.  I have already appreciated the news I have been hearing the
past week about competitions and such.  I look forward to hearing more!

Misti

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 13:36:03 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: beam flight series

Hi, my name is Courtney and I'm a level 8 in MD. I have a sort of odd
question about a flight series. Would a backhandspring splashdown (a
backhandspring where you sort of arch and land straddled on the beam)
connected to a backward roll be a valid series, or does the connection have
to be from your feet.  I've asked my coaches and two judges, and nobody seems
to know the answer.  I'd really like to know since I think this would be a
really original flight series.  Thanks,
Courtney

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 17:15:06 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Subject: beam flight series

> Hi, my name is Courtney and I'm a level 8 in MD. I have a sort of odd
> question about a flight series. Would a backhandspring splashdown (a
> backhandspring where you sort of arch and land straddled on the beam)
> connected to a backward roll be a valid series, or does the connection have
> to be from your feet.  I've asked my coaches and two judges, and nobody seems
> to know the answer.  I'd really like to know since I think this would be a
> really original flight series.  Thanks,
> Courtney

Courtney--

The series you're describing may not count.  In the Code, what matters is
not whether it's from your feet, but whether *both* of the elements of the
series are *flight* elements.  In your series, only one element is a flight
element.

However, this is the rule in the FIG Code (in other words, the elite
Code).  **There might be a different rule for Level 8's.**  There is a
handbook that says what changes from the FIG Code are made for the
different levels, but I don't have a copy handy.  Also, just because it
wouldn't count for the flight series requirement doesn't mean you can't
put it in your routine.  You would just have to have another series in
there that did fulfill the requirement.  You could do that by adding a
flight element before your backhandspring splashdown.  For example, you
might do backhandspring-backhandspring splashdown-backward roll (or back
extension, if you can do one, also looks very pretty.  I've seen this
done before, but it's more unusual now that it isn't a valid series [it
used to be under an old Code]).

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:10:44 -0800
From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: CAL/STANFORD/UCSB

Here's an update on that release skill I was telling you about, but
described rather poorly.

>From a Stalder, on the upswing, you essentially do a front salto, regrasping
(or at least attempting to regrasp!) the bar behind you.  not sure what you
could do out of it.  Maybe a front giant.  Seems like a high risk move.  The
regrasp is totally blind.

Someone in the gym called it a "Voor"-something or other.

The fellow attempting it was from Stanford.  I had said he was from CAL.

-George

p.s. Re: Cal beating Stanford: Rachele is correct.  Cal beat Stanford at
least once last year.  I believe it was twice.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 16:27:36 PST
From: ***@geoworks.com
Subject: CAL/STANFORD/UCSB

> >From a Stalder, on the upswing, you essentially do a front salto, regrasping
> (or at least attempting to regrasp!) the bar behind you.  not sure what you
> could do out of it.  Maybe a front giant.  Seems like a high risk move.  The
> regrasp is totally blind.
>
> Someone in the gym called it a "Voor"-something or other.
>
> The fellow attempting it was from Stanford.  I had said he was from CAL.


      I believe this is probably from a toe-on, toe-off instead of a
stalder, but it could have been I suppose.

      Conrad Voorsanger (sp?) was a Stanford gymnast a number of years
back that did this move.

      Dave Litwin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 21:44:56 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Subject: CAL/STANFORD/UCSB

> From a Stalder, on the upswing, you essentially do a front salto, regrasping
> (or at least attempting to regrasp!) the bar behind you.  not sure what you
> could do out of it.  Maybe a front giant.  Seems like a high risk move.  The
> regrasp is totally blind.
>
> Someone in the gym called it a "Voor"-something or other.

Ahhh, here we go -- you're referring to a "Voorhanger", the somewhat
cutesy name for the skill done by Conrad Voorsanger of Stanford.  I know
he definitely went to Stanford, not Iowa as someone suggested, because
he and I were teammates "a number of years back", as David Litwin put it,
making me feel old. ;)  Conrad did do it out of a toe-on, as David
said, but it could just as well be done from a Stalder.  In fact, we had
a discussion last fall or spring about this skill done out of a giant --
the Xiao Ruizhi (aka Marinich).

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 15:58:29 -0500
From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject: CAL/STANFORD/UCSB
 

>
>> From a Stalder, on the upswing, you essentially do a front salto, regrasping
>> (or at least attempting to regrasp!) the bar behind you.  not sure what you
>> could do out of it.  Maybe a front giant.  Seems like a high risk move.  The
>> regrasp is totally blind.
>>
>> Someone in the gym called it a "Voor"-something or other.
>
>Ahhh, here we go -- you're referring to a "Voorhanger", the somewhat
>cutesy name for the skill done by Conrad Voorsanger of Stanford.  I know
>he definitely went to Stanford, not Iowa as someone suggested, because
>he and I were teammates "a number of years back", as David Litwin put it,
>making me feel old. ;)  Conrad did do it out of a toe-on, as David
>said, but it could just as well be done from a Stalder.  In fact, we had
>a discussion last fall or spring about this skill done out of a giant --
>the Xiao Ruizhi (aka Marinich).
>
>:)
>Adriana


Sorry, about the incorrect call on Conrad's school --(Rachele also noted
that I had the wrong school)  so -- I put the question out there  a person
from Iowa about 5 years ago -- really big guy, I remember him as having
white hair (like Lief Carlson from Minn.) used to wear black arm bands
(looks NOTHING like Conrad Voorsanger from Stan.) was good on strength on
rings, couldn't swing for anything -- anyone know his name.  I am thinking
that it must either have a V in it or be something like Conrad for me to
make these connections  --- because there is not another similarity
anywhere

I actually lost sleep over this burning question so I would appreciate any
help that can be offered.

Thanks
Mayland

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 16:40:28 -0800 (PST)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: cal beating stanford

>
> p.s. Re: Cal beating Stanford: Rachele is correct.  Cal beat Stanford at
> least once last year.  I believe it was twice.
 
I missed most of the season last year.
Prior to last year, when was the last time CAL won ?

Will George & Dave be at Stanford this Saturday ?
How bout "Chops" ?

-texx

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:15:57 +0100
From: ***@lthmalmo.malmo.lth.se
Subject: competition

I just want the inform that Sweden are going to meet Skotland in a
competition in Skotland next Saturday (4 march) . I can assure you
that Sweden are going to win that battle very easily .  If you are in
another opinion or you what more information about this -- just write
to me !!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 20:33:33 -0500
From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject: conrad

I was thinking that conrad f4was from Iowa not stanford I al.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 22:58:31 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@clark.net
Subject: Hi

Hi there!  This is just a quick introduction, requested in
the "Welcome to Gymn" message I received. I've been reading
messages for about a week now and have seen other
introductions, so I guess they meant it!

I'm a former gymnast (sort of adv. beginner, but
many many years ago!), love the sport, may not post here often but will
really truly enjoy being able to read the posts here and keep
up with what's happening while I wait for IG magazine... thanks!

Judy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 14:34:24 -0500
From: ***@perfit.ZKO.DEC.Com
Subject: New England Championships, Mens's NCAA, March 4 @ MIT

The New England Championships are going to be March 4 at 1:00 pm at MIT in
Cambridge, MA.  I'm not sure of the teams competing, but UMass will be there,
probably Vermont, MIT, Southern Conn, maybe Springfield and others.

Look for UMass to win, with exceptional ring work from Kevin Schwartz and
vaulting (also all-around) from Russ Shupak.

I'll be there, anyone else?

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 95 17:30:54 EST
From: ***@MIT.EDU
Subject: New England Championships, Mens's NCAA, March 4 @ MIT

I'm competing in the New England Championships

The teams that will be there are:
MIT, U.Mass, Vermont, Southern Conn,
Springfield, Dartmouth, and an individual from BU

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 12:16:30 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Photos

Hi everyone....

Its seems that I may have spoken out a little early about the photos on AOL.
   They seem to be having problems excepting work from professional
photographers!  They are very antsy about copyrights and such.............

If anyone would like some photos, find out how I can send them directly
across the net to an individual and we will get some out.....

Sorry about all the earlier confussion.

Jim and Lori

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 18:47:22 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Subject: Reposting Bogi ?


> Seems my original posting only reached a few, so I'll try again:
> I was just wondering why Boginskia was competing at the American Classic--is
> she now a member of the U.S team?  I was also wondering if anyone knew when
> Kim Zmeskal would make her first comeback apperence?  Some people have told
> me she has put on some weight, but the last time I saw her on T.V. in
> January, she looked normal--besides, at '4"9, five pounds would show up on
> her.  I have confidence she'll make it to Atlanta!
>

I'm sure there are others on Gymn who know more, but since I haven't
seen a response, I'll just say that Boginskaya is not a member of the US
team, but she's working on a comeback and I suppose she was at Classic
for the competition experience.  Or maybe she got an appearance fee :), I
dunno...

Don't know when Kim will finally compete; I think she's pulled out of a
couple of meets (supposedly due to injuries, but that's been disputed,
hasn't it?  I'm thinking of the jammed-or-maybe-it-wasn't thumb).

On a non-gym topic but related and has me *very* sad, Greg Louganis
announced he has AIDS (yes, AIDS, not just HIV+).

Finally, sorry for the personal content, but Dave Pearlstein, I don't have
your address -- how can I switch sabb-l to this account?

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 10:56:47 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu
Subject: Shannon's routines

I've read many people's messages about Shannon's new and improved
routines. I'd appreciate it if someone could describe the new skills she
put in. Also what's her new floor routine music like and what are her
tumbling passes? Thanks!!
                                            Beth =]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Feb 1995 23:46:54 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Subject: the slip-grip historical note to what Adriana wrote...

> >
> > >       The gymnast was long-time Italian national team member Giula
> > > Volpi. She performed a full-pirouette on HB, slip-grip to straddle-back
> > > to handstand on LB. The judges did not know whether to give her credit
> > > for immediate sequence of full pir. to straddle-back hs.
> >
> > Hmm... I guess this means she didn't do it in compulsories then?  Or that
> > the judges didn't have a problem with it in compulsories?
>
>     From what I read she did it in optionals, because the judges had
> a debate as to whether or not to reward the two tricks as consecutive.
> I'll review my magazine next time I'm home in Tucson (a couple of weeks,
> probably....)
>     Besides, I don't think there was a slip-grip in compulsories
> then, was there? Not officially, tho there was the "extended
> combination".

There wasn't a slip-grip officially then, but everyone did it anyway. 
That's why I'm wondering whether there's one officially now.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 1995 13:22:51 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@suvax1.stetson.edu
Subject: UGA-UF-UM Tri-meet

Hi!

Is anyone going to the Georgia - Florida - Michigan tri-meet in Athens, GA
on Friday?  I am going to Mardi Gras this weekend and won't be able to
attend the meet.  Can someone provide me with a run-down of how the meet
goes?  Ron?  Raul? Deanna?  Thanks a lot.  Let the good times roll!

Mike

------------------------------

End of gymn Digest
******************************