gymn Digest Fri, 23 Dec 94 Volume 3 : Issue 53

Today's Topics:
"The Gymnastics Insider"
... (2 msgs)
admin requests
American Airlines
Chinichi Cup AA
coach needed
Danskin
Do you want to join me in thanking Temple?
GER Men's Team Champs.
Gym on TV (was Re: Danskin)
Jennie, Dom M., Dom D., and Shannon in SI for Kids
leotards etc.
my 2 cents on worlds
NCAA Amendment
New subscriber
Shannon (4 msgs)
shannon and martina
Shannon Speculation
Subscriber Profile
Temple gymnastics continued
Temple letter: last chance!
underrated gymnasts (2 msgs)
Various Intl Meet Results (2 msgs)
World's: Questions and comments (2 msgs)
Worlds (7 msgs)
Worlds-my thoughts [Long ... (2 msgs)
Worlds-my thoughts [Long note] (3 msgs)
Worlds-my thoughts [Long note] (fwd)

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 19 Dec 94 14:57:13 EDT
From: ***@notes.bsginc.com
Subject: "The Gymnastics Insider"

To all who are interested in women's collegiate gymnastics:

"The Gymnastics Insider" will again be produced this year. It is a newsletter
with reports from all over the nation on the various meets (the information per
square inch in this publication is unrivaled!). One of our Gymners, Ron
Dupont, Jr., is one of their writers. This is a good newsletter for following
up on those post-elite gymnasts (such as Chelle Stack, etc) and those foreign
gymnasts who came to the NCAA (Larissa Lowing, etc), if you're interested in
that.

Subscription information:

$18 for 9 issues. Make checks payable to "Gymnastics Insider".

Name______________________________________

Address___________________________________

City____________________ State___ Zip_____

Mail info above and payment to: Gymnastics Insider
PO Box 753
Jordan, UT 84084

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 94 13:17 PST
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: ...

Forgotten underrated gymnast of the week: (t) Yulia Kut
(t) Olga Chudina


I couldn't decide.

Honorable mention: Khrabrina Krabrova

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 20:48:16 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: ...

>Forgotten underrated gymnast of the week: (t) Yulia Kut
(t) Olga Chudina

Forgotten gymnast of the week, even though he's still competing...Andrei Kan

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 17:28:46 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@rmii.com
Subject: admin requests

Please address all administrative requests to owner-gymn@mit.edu (not
gymn-owner)...

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 94 15:29:28 EST
From: ***@eos.ncsu.edu
Subject: American Airlines

Anybody notice that Steve and Shannon flew back via American? I'm
amazed they got back. American isn't run too well if you ask me, folks.
My roommate was Mike H, the captain (pilot) of American Eagle
flight #3379, the one that crashed last Tuesday, 13 December, near RDU
International. I called a 1-800-number to American Airlines to find out
if Mike was on the plane. The folks at American told me that they would
find out and call me back. Meanwhile, I'm going nuts and all of Mike's
friends and relatives are calling our apartment asking if he was on the
flight. I couldn't tell them anything. American calls back about
12:30 am and tells me that Michael Hillis was not on the flight. I call
Mike's aunt in Canada (the only phone number I had of his relatives),
and she had already been informed that Mike was okay. So, we all go to
bed happy that Mike is okay. The next morning, I'm watching the local
news and they say they have indentified two of the people that died on
flight: a passenger (I don't recall the name) and the captain, Michael
P. Hillis of Raleigh. My roommate. . .

I've been telling this to as many of my friends as I can. I've asked
them not to fly American Airlines, because if they can't get something
simple right, like the names of pilots, how in the world can they
fly me to my destination safe and sound? It doesn't make since to me.

--Brent
------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 00:50:00 UTC
From: ***@genie.geis.com
Subject: Chinichi Cup AA

First, thanks to Amanda for the *excellent* post with all those results!
And, now, the (partial) AA results from the '94 Chunichi Cup:

WOMEN
V UB B FX Total
1. G. Gogean 9.837 9.800 9.850 9.850 39.337
2. L. Milosovici 9.837 9.825 9.775 9.875 39.312
3. S. Khorkina 9.762 9.825 9.800 9.825 39.212
4. D. Kochetkova 9.612 9.850 9.350 9.800 38.612
5. R. Sugawara (JPN) 9.637 9.225 9.700 9.775 38.337
6. D. Dawes 9.350 9.425 9.625 9.850 38.312
(*)M. Hashiguchi 9.287 9.525 9.700 9.500 38.012
7. M. Okawa (JPN) 9.537 9.425 9.300 8.750 37.012

MEN
FX PH R V PB HB Total
1. R. Sharipov 9.40 9.40 9.45 9.05 9.675 9.50 56.475
2. I. Korobchinsky 9.60 8.50 9.45 9.55 9.60 9.35 56.050
3. Hong Chul Yeo (KOR) 9.40 9.05 9.25 9.70 9.30 9.25 55.950
4. T. Sato 9.25 9.40 9.40 9.30 9.10 9.45 55.900
5. M. Matsunaga 9.15 9.30 9.35 9.15 9.50 9.35 55.800
6. Lee Jang-Hyung (KOR) 9.00 9.45 8.75 9.00 8.95 7.75 52.900
(*)I. Sato 8.60 8.40 8.50 9.20 8.30 9.00 52.000

Note: "*" means that these JPN gymnasts were unofficial entries, i.e., they
did not figure in the AA standings.

Debbie

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 23:10:58 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: coach needed

Hello again! One of our main coaches just got that USA gymnastics video job,
great for her, trouble for us. If you or anyone you know is remotely
interested in coaching girls levels 5 - 8 and preteam (other hours available)
by San Francisco in Emeryville, please e-mail me, Leesmo@aol.com or else call
510 655-1265. We have a growing, successful program and a real pleasant
working environment. Thanks in advance!
Texx- do you have a phone # for Peter Davis?

-Leesa

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 22:13:38 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@emerald.tufts.edu
Subject: Danskin

I read that there is some Danskin competition on this Saturday night at
9PM on ESPN. Does anyone know what this is exactly?
Melissa

------------------------------

Date: 19 Dec 94 17:03:49 EDT
From: ***@notes.bsginc.com
Subject: Do you want to join me in thanking Temple?

I am going to snailmail the following letter on Thursday. If you would like to
add your name to this letter (it would be great to get tons!), please email me
either here or at rachele@rmii.com. If I get the latest proposal numbers
before the 22nd, then I will change all instances of "the proposal" to
"Proposal 3-???".

Rachele
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr. Howard Gittis
Chairman of the Board
Temple University
(address)

Dear Mr. Gittis,

We are writing this letter to express our deep gratitude for the Board's
actions on the 13th to save Temple's gymnastics and baseball programs. Thank
you for recognizing not only the excellence of these athletes and coaches, but
also the value that they bring to Temple University.

As you are no doubt aware, the NCAA will vote in just a couple of weeks on a
proposal to extend the moratorium on Bylaw 18.2.10.1, which requires a minimum
of forty teams for an NCAA sponsored championships. If this proposal does not
pass then men's collegiate gymnastics will undoubtably suffer, as there are
less than forty Division I men's gymnastics programs in the country. For this
reason, we were following the Temple situation very closely. We hope that you
will join us in our support of collegiate men's gymnastics by speaking with the
Temple delegates (and any other delegates) to ensure a YES vote to the
proposal.

Again, we thank you sincerely for supporting some of the best student-athletes
at Temple University. We have never been prouder to be fans of Temple.

Sincerely,
Rachele Harless

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 94 00:12:00 UTC
From: ***@genie.geis.com
Subject: GER Men's Team Champs.

The German men's team champs. were held Saturday, Dec. 17. Results are:

1. WKTV Stuttgart (112.775)
2. TK Hannover (111.575)
3. SV Halle
4. SC Cottbus
5. SC Berlin
6. Chemnitzer SC

Sorry, no other scores are known. Belenky (Stuttgart) received 9.70 on PH,
the meet's highest score.

Debbie


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 21:03:09 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gym on TV (was Re: Danskin)

>>I read that there is some Danskin competition on this Saturday night at 9PM
on ESPN. Does anyone know what this is exactly<<

The "Danskin Gold Gymnastics Spectacular" From Mexico City is the exhibition
featuring Svetlana Boginskaya, Lavinina Milosovici, Nadia Comaneci, Bart
Conner, and others that has been mentioned before on "Gymn." It's on 9 PM EST
Christmas Eve.

I also recently found a tenative schedule of ABC's 1995 planned gymnastics
programming ...

The Reese's World Gymnastics Cup - airing on 3/11
in Wide World of Sports

The Visa Gymnastics Challenge - pt. 1 on 4/29 and pt. 2 on 5/13
in Wide World of Sports

The European Cup Men 6/24 (ooh look a men's meet how did slip by them?!) and
Women's 7/1 in Wide World of Sports

The World Gymnastics Championships on Sunday 10/8 and
Sunday 10/15 as ABC Sports Specials

-Susan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 15:59:29 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Jennie, Dom M., Dom D., and Shannon in SI for Kids

Just got my Sports Illustrated for Kids and a little gymnastics section.
Jennie and Dom M. on cover for Olympic Hopefuls, two more pictures of them
together onside. Jennie has her braces off and shes similing! Does anyone
know if they are friends at Bela's gym? Picture of Shannon w/ a quote. Also
it said that getting to the Olympics in gymnastics for 96 is average. The
scale is go for it, average, hard, superhard. IMHO, I think it should be
superhard because if you were to train now, it would take years to get up to
the level. Also a gymnastics section where it shows how to do a squat vault,
forward roll on beam, and a bach hip pullover on bars. A picture of Dom D.
on beam, and some young gymnasts on bars and floor. It's kind of basic, but
check it out. Theres some nice pictures.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 11:57:36 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: leotards etc.

I hope this is an acceptable posting, but here goes...
I'm in the clothing business, specializing in closeout merchandise, and
recentle purchased a large quantity of gymnastics clothes. I'm presenting
some to the girls on the ucla team, and am happy to ship some to teams across
america. I don't have every color, but for basics My price is right.
leotards $6.00
leggings$6.00
stirrups $6.00
bike shorts$5.00
Junior sizes only s.m.l.
no kids sizes
call me or email 310-8377511 I'm in L.A..fax 310-8378308
email Danielk557 @aol.

my appologies if business isn't acceptable on this mail list


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 94 17:26 PST
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: my 2 cents on worlds

You could open an umbrella between Dominique's legs and not touch
either one...

Amy Chow has all the fluidity of a bad Level 5.

Piskun's form just keeps improving and improving... Her
hair looked good too..

There is more to China than Mo... Wish we could have seen some of her
more elegant teammates

Milo has Yulia Kut hair.

Gogean's beam would have generously scored 9.75 six years ago.

The whole world is in Khorkina's shadow.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 11:45:13 +1000
From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject: NCAA Amendment

This is the amendment that we are asking you to email in support of being
voted on at the NCAA convention in January.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Amendment Submission form: 1995 Annual NCAA Convention

Intent: To continue the moratorium on the discontinuation of all NCAA
championships through 1997.


Constitution:
Bylaws: Operating Bylaw Article 18

Amend: 18.2.10.1. Page 330 as follows:

During the 1995-96 and 1996-97 academic years, an existing National
Collegiate Championship shall not be canceled, nor shall transportation and
per diem expenses be discontinued, due to that championship's failure to
meet the minimum numerical sponsorship requirements for maintaining he
championship. Upon the expiration of this legislative exception, if during
the 1996-97 period a championship fell below the applicable minimum
numerical sponsorship requirement set forth in 18.2.3 or 18.2.4, it shall
be discontinued automatically.

Source: Membership Institution (minimum of 8)

Effective Date: Immediately

Primary Contact Person:

Bill Byrne, Director of Athletics
University of Nebraska
103 S. Stadium
Lincoln, NE 68588-0120
402-472-3011

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 16:41:18 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: New subscriber

Hi:

I'm Mike and I'm a new subscriber to Gymn. My family lives in Ocean
Township, NJ and my daughter is a Level 6 gymnast at Devlin Gymnastics in
Wall Township, NJ. We are all really into the sport, especially my daughter
so I thought it would be a good idea to hear from other people connected to
Gymnastics from all over the country.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 22:09 EDT
From: ***@ROO.FIT.EDU
Subject: Shannon

Mara has a good point. Shannon is technically an adult. When will she stop
being the pawn of Steve (and everyone else)? She's not a little girl. She
must have some decisions.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I think Shannon needs to grow up and
take charge of her own life rather than being led around.

-Laura

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 12:19:40 GMT
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Shannon


> I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I think Shannon needs to grow up and
> take charge of her own life rather than being led around.

I hope Shannon hadn't signed a contract when she was young before fame,
saying that "I have to follow Steve's decision for the rest of my gymnastics
career" or something.

Sherwin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 94 09:04:55 -0500
From: ***@perfit.ZKO.DEC.Com
Subject: Shannon

Laura writes:

>Mara has a good point. Shannon is technically an adult. When will she stop
>being the pawn of Steve (and everyone else)? She's not a little girl. She
>must have some decisions.
>
> I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I think Shannon needs to grow up and
> take charge of her own life rather than being led around.


Just because *you* don't agree with what she is doing in her life, doesn't mean
she's being pulled around by a leash.

Steve

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 22:32:54 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Shannon

>Just because *you* don't agree with what she is doing in her life, doesn't
mean she's being pulled around by a leash.

The problem is that she, according to several reports, was *not* happy to be
leaving...

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 Dec 1994 17:59:33 -0800 (PST)
From: ***@shell.portal.com
Subject: shannon and martina

I think the Steve commentary on Shannon and Martina was meant strictly to refer to her longevity and possible her popularity. It was also a very ironic commentary, intended or not, on the short life of a gymnast (Steve may not have intended the irony, but I think the Times writer did).

--Abby

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 07:32:33 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@rmii.com
Subject: Shannon Speculation

| >Just because *you* don't agree with what she is doing in her life, doesn't
| mean she's being pulled around by a leash.
|
| The problem is that she, according to several reports, was *not* happy to be
| leaving...

I think we owe Shannon a lot more respect than we're giving her. All
these questions about when will she stand up to Steve, why is she
being pulled around on a leash, etc... these criticisms are all made
on assumptions. Sure, there is a good chance that they are true
assumptions, but that's why they are assumptions, because we don't
know. "According to several reports?" I.e.: "I heard it from someone
else (who probably heard it from someone else who probably heard it
from someone else)." In my mind, the only way in which one would be
qualified to make the judgements of Shannon that have been made would
be to actually speak to her on a direct and personal level (ie press
conferences and that three minute chat in the hotel lobby don't
count).

What's more, I would hope that if you were able to speak to Shannon on
a direct level, where one could truly claim to know what she's all
about, that you certainly wouldn't come running to Gymn to blab your
"inside secret."

Assumptions at this point are that (1) she was unhappy to leave
[fairly good assumption -- but did she ever say this?] and (2) Steve
was the one who made her leave [she definitely hasn't said this].
Assuming that #1 is true, there are so many many other possibilities
as to why she did leave that we certainly can't start criticizing her
(assumed) lack of independence.

Here are just some sample possibilities (ranging from absurd to possible):
1- Maybe she was injured and didn't want to tell anyone.
2- Maybe she really is tired.
3- Maybe her parents wanted her to come home -- maybe they made that
decision with Steve.
4- Maybe she had a hot date.
5- Maybe she wants time to train new tricks so that she wins worlds again.
6- Maybe she trusts Steve's judgement as he has gotten her where she
is today, and she's investing her future by trusting he can
also get her where she wants to be tomorrow.

Now, I made all of these up, obviously. I'm just trying to make the
point that we don't KNOW about the situation, and so we shouldn't be
making posts to hundreds of people about her perceived lack of
independence. It just looks foolish to the people who do know Shannon
and unfairly builds up an image of her with the people who don't.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 11:45:56 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Subscriber Profile

Hi:

I'm Mike, a new subscriber to gym. My daughter is a Level 6 gymnast at
Devlin Gymnastics in Wall Township, NJ. I thought it would be a good idea to
be able to hear from other people who are into the sport.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 94 09:06:07 -0500
From: ***@perfit.ZKO.DEC.Com
Subject: Temple gymnastics continued

Yesterday in the mail, I received a note from the President of Temple
University that reads:

Dear Mr. Craig:

Thank you for sharing your feelings and thoughts with me on the
recommendation to close the gymnastics and baseball programs. The outcome is
a refreshing lesson in democracy and the Trustees' good judgement. My only
regret is that students' and others' lives were disrupted for two weeks. They
can, however, look back on this crisis as a victory for hope and hard work.

Sincerely,

Peter J. Liacouras

------------------------------

Date: 22 Dec 94 12:26:38 EDT
From: ***@notes.bsginc.com
Subject: Temple letter: last chance!

I am very happy to report that 28 people so far (!) have asked to be added to
the signatures for the letter I am sending to Temple. I am printing and
mailing this letter at 9am CST tomorrow (Friday morning). If you want your
name added, please send a note to both addresses (rharless@notes.bsginc.com,
rachele@rmii.com) before that time.

I have sent a "Your name has been added" confirmation msg to everyone that has
asked to be added so far. If you've asked to be added and haven't gotten a
confirmation from me, please let me know!

Thanks so much to everyone who has replied! It surpassed my expectations!
Because I think this long list of names will make an impact, I will also be
cc'ing this letter to Cedric Dempsey (The Big Guy of the NCAA) and all the
following at Temple: Chairman of the Board, President, Athletic Director, and
Gymnastics and Baseball coach.

Btw, the number is at well over 200 for the NCAA email campaign. There's still
plenty of time to send them in.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 19:59:11 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject: underrated gymnasts

Forwarded message:
> Forgotten underrated gymnast of the week: (t) Yulia Kut
> (t) Olga Chudina
>
>
> I couldn't decide.
>
> Honorable mention: Khrabrina Krabrova
>
I always thought Natalia Frolova was underrated too. Her floor routine at
the '86 US-USSR meets was one of the most beautiful I've ever seen. I could
never figure out why she was entered in all the US-USSR meets and some of the
minor European competitions, but never a Worlds. Am I the only one who thinks
she was a great gymnast?

Beth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 22:00:55 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: underrated gymnasts

>Am I the only one who thinks
she (Frolova) was a great gymnast?

Not at all. I loved her floor!

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 09:02:25 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Various Intl Meet Results

Arthur Gander Memorial
(I have results by events only- I don't know if a seperate all-around was
held)

Women
VAULT
1. Angela Ghimpu (ROM)- 9.712
2. Oksana Chusovitina (UZB)- 9.587
3. Natascha Schnell (SUI)- 9.400
4. Larissa Fontaine (USA)-9.237
5. Nyeste Adrian (HUN)- 9.200
6. Oksana Nikolaeva (RUS)- 9.062

BARS
1. Oksana Chusovitina- 9.800
2. Larissa Fontaine- 9.700
3. Angela Ghimpu- 9.500
4. Tanja Pechstein (SUI)- 9.050
5. Mary Beth Arnold (USA)- 8.900
6. Marianna Crisci (ITA)- 8.450

BEAM
1. Oksana Chusovitina- 9.650
2. Tanja Pechstein- 9.275
3. Larissa Fontaine- 8.975
4. Angela Ghimpu- 8.9
5. Oksana Nikolaeva- 8.825
6. Nyeste Adrien- 8.45

FLOOR
1. Oksana Chusovitina- 9.75
2. Oksana Nikolaeva- 9.725
3. Angela Ghimpu- 9.700
4. Larissa Fontaine- 9.675
5. Natascha Schnell- 8.625
6. Marianna Crisci- 8.275

MEN-
FLOOR
1. Igor Korby (UKR)- 9.6
2. Ivan Ivanov (BUL)- 9.5
3. Dmitri Vasilenko (RUS) 9.3
4. Wanner Herich (SUI) 9.2
5. Bucci Paolo (ITA) 9.15
6. Rosaro Ruggero (ITA) 8.45

POMMEL HORSE
1. Li Dong Hua (SUI ?!?!?!) 9.7
2. Yuri Chechi (ITA) 9.45
= Igor Koribchinksy (UKR) 9.45
4. Nistor Sandro (ROM) 9.35
5. Andrei Fyodorov (BLR) 8.55
6. Rossato Rogaro (ITA) 8.4

VAULT
1. Igor Koribchinski- 9.45
2. Dmitri Vasilenko- 9.25
3. Peter Zsolt (HUN)- 9.225
4. Nistro Sandro- 9.2
5. Ivan Ivanov- 9.05
6. Wanner Erich (SUI) -8.975

RINGS
1. Yuri Chechi (big shock) 9.825
2. Ivanov- 9.35
3. Russato Ruggero -9.3
= Vasilenko -9.3
5. Bucci Paolo- 9.15
6. Li Dong Hua- 9.1

PARALLEL BARS
1. Ivanov- 9.55
2. Koribchinski- 9.45
3. Chechi- 9.30
4. Zsolt- 9.1
5. Wanner- 9.00
6. Vasilenko- 8.9

HIGH BAR
1. Pegan Aljaz (SLO) 9.8
2. Nistro Sandro- 9.6
3. Chechi- 9.5
= Korby- 9.5
5. Li Dong Hua- 8.6
6. Vasilenko- 7.7

(I have only 1/2 of the results for the Swiss Cup- which doesn't give the
results of who won the Mixed Pair event if it still is that, but the 1st
three for each event are listed as gold, silver, and bronze so I'm not sure
what kind of competition was held. I think it may be an event thing like DTB
now.)

Swiss Cup
Sonntag, Switzerland
27 November 1994
MEN
VAULT
1. Xiaoshuang Li (CHN)- 9.55
2. Vitaly Scherba (BLR)- 9.531
3. Igor Koribchinsky (UKR)- 9.481
= Yeo Hong-Chul (KOR)- 9.481
5. Valeri Belenki (GER)- 9.419
6. Ivan Ivankov (BLR)- 9.356
7. Welbel Daniel (SUI)- 9.35
8. Grigori Misutin (UKR)- 9.313

PARALLEL BARS
1. Huang Liping (CHN)- 9.737
2. Koribchinsky- 9.725
3. Dmitri Karbanenko (RUS)- 9.687
4. Rustam Sharipov (UKR)- 9.65
5. Ivankov - 9.587
6. Scherba- 9.55
7. Boris Preti (ITA)- 9.5
8. Andres Felipe (SUI)- 9.175

HIGH BAR
1. Pegan Aljaz (SLO) 9.775
2. Scherba- 9.65
3. Karbanenko- 9.6
4. Ivankov- 9.575
5. Banzer Martin (SUI)- 9.562
6. Fajkusz Csaba (HUN)- 9.55
7. Boris Preti- 9.487
8. Zoltan Suppola (HUN) - 9.475

WOMEN
BEAM
1. Ghimpu- 9.287
=Chusovitina- 9.287
3. Liu Xuan (CHN)- 9.25
4. Julia Strattman (GER) 9.187
5. Podkopayeva- 9.087
6. Pascale Grossenbacher (SUI) 8.512
7. Yevgeniya Roschina (RUS) 8.262
8. He Xuemei (CHN)- 8.05

FLOOR
1. Strattman - 9.737
2. Roschina- 9.7
3. Nyeste Adrienn (HUN) - 9.675
4. Yelena Lebedeva (RUS) - 9.662
5. Chusovitina- 9.6
6. Liu Xuan- 9.125
7. Yelena Piskun- 9.112
8. Grossenbacher- 8.512

CHUNICHI CUP
(I have event finals only- sorry)

Men's Floor
1. Yeo Hong Chul (KOR) - 9.75
2. Koribchinski- 9.7
3. Sharipov- 9.35
4. Sato, Toshiharu (JPN)- 9.4
5. Matsunaga (JPN) 9.15
6. Lee, Jang Hyung (KOR) - 8.7
7. Sato, Isamu (JPN) - 8.4

POMMEL HORSE
1. Koribchinski - 9.5
2. Sato, T. - 9.45
3. Lee, Jang - 9.35
4. Matsunaga - 9.2
5. Sato, I 9.1
6. Yeo 9.05
7. Sharipov v8.65

RINGS
1. Sharipov - 9.5
= Matsunaga - 9.5
3. Sato, T - 9.45
= Koribchinski - 9.45
5. Yeo - 9.3
6. Lee - 8.7
7. Sato, Isamu ???

VAULT
1. Yeo - 9.567
2. Koribchinski - 9.487
3. Matsunaga - 9.3
4. Sato, T 9.175
5. Lee - 8.825
6. Sharipov ???
7. Sato, I ???

PARALLEL BARS
1. Matsunaga - 9.575
2. Sharipov - 9.55
3. Yeo - 9.35
4. Sato - 9.1
5. Koribchinski - 8.75
6. Lee - 8.45
7. Sato, I ???

HIGH BAR
1. Sato, T - 9.55
2. Sharipov - 9.525
3. Korby - 9.4
= Matsunaga - 9.4
5. Lee - 9.2
6. Yeo - 8.75
7. Sato, I ???

WOMEN
VAULT
1. Khorkina - 9.775
= Gogean - 9.775
= Milosovici - 9.775
4. Dawes - 9.6
5. Kochetkova - 9.575
6. Sugawara - 9.537
7. Hashiguchi - 9.425
8. Okawa - 9.2

BARS
1. Dawes - 9.85
2. Gogean - 9.825
3. Kochetkova - 9.8
= Khorkina - 9.8
5. Milosovici - 9.775
= Sugawara - 9.775
7. Hashuguchi - 9.575
8. Okawa - 9.25

BEAM
1. Dawes - 9.85
2. Gogean - 9.8
= Milosovici - 9.8
4. Kochetkova - 9.725
5. Khorkina - 9.7
6. Okawa - 9.6
7. Sugawara - 9.55
8. Hashiguchi - 9.175

FLOOR
1. Milosovici - 9.875
2. Dawes - 9.85
= Gogean - 9.85
4. Sugawara - 9.8
5. Kochetkova - 9.725
6. Khorkina - 9.7
= Hashiguchi - 9.7
8. Okawa - 9.625


- Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 94 14:17:37 GMT
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Various Intl Meet Results


> Arthur Gander Memorial
>
> BARS
> 1. Oksana Chusovitina- 9.800
>
> BEAM
> 1. Oksana Chusovitina- 9.650
>
> FLOOR
> 1. Oksana Chusovitina- 9.75

It seems Oky "and-on-and-on-and-on" Chusovitina is still
going very strong. Who would have thought out of the 92
Olympics team she is the one from the CIS team who would
last longest!

Sherwin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 94 12:11:11 PST
From: ***@ccm.fm.intel.com
Subject: World's: Questions and comments

To all of you who actually went and saw the competition in person,
maybe you can answer the following for the rest of us (those of use
who only saw the competition on TV).

* Is there a general trend among the Russians and Romanians to "hone"
down their beam tumbling down to flip flop-layouts and front tucks?
Or were the examples shown on TV just isolated examples? Has the new
code caused three/four skill series to be trimmed out? * How was the
depth on the Romanian team? Was there a drop-off in difficulty and
execution in the lower ranked members? * During the men's
competition, did the US hit "72 for 72" (comp/opt) or were there major
errors? * What is holding Kerri's bars score down? Is she missing
bonus or are we missing execution errors due to the camera angle shown
on TV? (i.e, short handstands, swing rhythm, or a too close Jaeger?)

And, (I can't resist, after reading so many other comments), but a few
comments of my own:

-Dawes form on her infamous "straddled" flip flops on beam has
improved -Khorkina's floor does not remind me of Boginskaya, but more
of Okino (in particular, some of the poses in the corners, her long
lines and her long neck) -Judges seem to be (once again) partially
compensating for high difficulty that is not being adequately rewarded
by the code. By this, I mean execution errors in very difficult
routines are being judged less severely (on floor and beam). (An
example would be Amy's beam routine)

Sorry for the long message,

Greg

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 03:00:55 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: World's: Questions and comments

>* Is there a general trend among the Russians and Romanians to "hone" down
their beam tumbling down to flip flop-layouts and front tucks? Or were the
examples shown on TV just isolated examples? Has the new code caused
three/four
skill series to be trimmed out?

There is a great deal of 'working to the code.'

>* How was the depth on the Romanian team? Was there a drop-off in
difficulty
and execution in the lower ranked members?

Great. They blew everyone away in podium training, even though Presecan
didn't train with them (btw, if she is the 'worst' from Bucharest, as
rumored, Triumf must be awesome). They were only ok in compos, but solid
depth in optionals.

>* During the men's competition, did the US hit "72 for 72" (comp/opt) or
were
there major errors?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.............<choking sounds>

>* What is holding Kerri's bars score down? Is she missing bonus or are we
missing execution errors due to the camera angle shown on TV? (i.e, short
handstands, swing rhythm, or a too close Jaeger?)

Anything over 9.6 was a very respectable score. Kerri also was up very early
in the lineup (*first* in compos, third if I recall correctly, in finals).

>-Khorkina's floor does not remind me of Boginskaya, but more of Okino (in
particular, some of the poses in the corners, her long lines and her long
neck)

Khorkina is no one but herself. If anyone, she reminds me a little of
Turischeva

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 08:50:27 +1000
From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject: Worlds

>>Scott Keswick's remark was puzzling, to say the least.
>
>Not to mention vindictive. What's really unfortunate is that it was directed
>at some of the people who deserved it least, the US women - who showed up
>throughout the meet to support and cheer on the men.
>
>Mara

The women were only at one session - of men's anything.

The men came to cheer on every session for the US women's.

I didn't see the coverage this weekend of the championships, and I am
disappointed to hear that Scott behaved so poorly according to what I
am hearing from all of you. The women did a great job at world's, but
I was disappointed that the coaches choose a time slot, after knowing
when the men would be competing, that wouldn't allow them to be at the
competition.

Plus, if TV didn't show any men's then I think that you might find
that is what is hurting Scott and the rest of the men's team the most
- not the women (individuals) themselves, but the lack of
acknowledgement by the women's community that there is excellent
gymnastics being done by the men's community (China was unreal in
finals, and they should have been covered). I hope that Scott regrets
making unkind comments that were broadcast for the whole country,
because he was right there congratulating the women and being very
proud of their success.

Mayland

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 08:53:36 +1000
From: ***@pharm.med.upenn.edu
Subject: Worlds

>> >Scott Keswick's remark was puzzling, to say the least.
>>
>> Not to mention vindictive. What's really unfortunate is that it was directed
>> at some of the people who deserved it least, the US women - who showed up
>> throughout the meet to support and cheer on the men.
>>
>> Mara
>>
> That is a VERY good point. Not only did the girls cheer on the men, but
>before the men's optionals (qualifying), the US girls came into the men's
>training gym where the men were finishing their warmups, and gave them all
>balloons on which they had written messages of good luck, etc. I don't even
>remember what Susan, Joe and I were doing in the training gym at that point,
>but it was a nice thing to witness, and I think Japanese TV got it on tape.
>The men brought the balloons onto the competition floor with them. I thought it
>was really nice that the US girls went to this effort to encourage and cheer on
>their male counterparts. Too bad Scott couldn't have shown a little more
>gratitude and respect for them. I can understand his being frustrated, etc.,
>but there was no reason to take it out on the girls and begrudge them their
>high finish.
>
>Beth


The girls did the balloons because their coaches had scheduled their
training time during the competition itself, and none of them were
able to actually be there. The girls did take this effort upon
themselves, and the guys appreciated it, but I know they weren't
thrilled with the coaches and the decision made, since the previous
and following time slots were open and the girls could have been at
the competition.

Mayland

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 10:32:25 EST
From: ***@MIT.EDU
Subject: Worlds

Mayland said:

>The girls did the balloons because their coaches had scheduled their
>training time during the competition itself, and none of them were able to
>actually be there. The girls did take this effort upon themselves, and the
>guys appreciated it, but I know they weren't thrilled with the coaches and
>the decision made, since the previous and following time slots were open
>and the girls could have been at the competition.

I going to give the coaches the benefit of the doubt here and assume
that they chose the training timeslot that they felt would be most
optimal for the girls wrt the timing between training and competition.
I don't really know the situation here, and perhaps any timeslot would
have been equally good, but you have to figure that they didn't just
vindictively choose to make the girls miss the men's meet. And if it
is the case that the timeslot chosen was the best one for the girls
from the point of view of their own competition, then I think they did
the right thing. It would have been nice for the girls to be able to
cheer the guys on, but their "job" there was to compete at the highest
level possible, and if training during the guys' competition
contributed to their ability to do that then that was when they needed
to train. All IMO (in my opinion), of course.

--Robyn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 13:32:58 EST5EDT
From: ***@merc.rx.uga.edu
Subject: Worlds

Hello!!

I forgot to set the VCR Saturday and I did not see the
Championship. Did anyone tape it? Can I get a copy? I will pay for
the cost of making the tape and shipment. I leave to Puerto Rico
tonight. I will be back January 3rd. I will not be able to read my
messages until then. Thank you.

Raul

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 94 15:11:51 EST
From: ***@eos.ncsu.edu
Subject: Worlds

Just my two cents on Team Worlds:

--What's with the new Russian 'dos? Khorkina looked good with it, but
not Grosheva. And why do cameramen ZOOM in on crying athletes (like
they did on Lebedeva)?

--Scott Keswick. . . I used up a whole box of Kleenex after your
speech. I said it once, I'll say it again: it's going to take an
superstar American male for the US men to get any more press. Maybe
someone can genetically engineer a male Shannon Miller or we can talk
Vitaly Scherbo into defecting.

--I do wish that I could have seen SOMETHING from Larissa Fontaine
and/or Jaycie Phelps. I was beginning to wonder if Larissa was ever
going to take off her warm up jacket. The only thing they showed of
her was her hugging her teammates.

--My hat is off to Kerri Strug. I don't think her performance should
be called a "comeback", but that is the only word I can think of to
type right now. I especially liked her interview, and her comment
that the team didn't revolve around Shannon.

--Dominique: nice bars; enjoyed that. Gina Gogean: clonked her noggin
on the beam; didn't enjoy that. She must have an extremely hard head
to jump back up like she did.

See y'all later. Merry Christmas!

--Brent
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 94 13:22:51 CST
From: ***@admin.stedwards.edu
Subject: Worlds

OK, OK...

Many have shared their feelings re: NBC's coverage of the Dortmund
World's, so I thought I'd add my two cents. The Nunno/Miller
departure and Keswick sour grapes comment have both been discussed ad
nauseum, so I won't address those two subjects, but my thoughts
include :

1. Re: Romania. Belu and the girls have learned that the key to
winning a major championship involves two things : 1. CONSISTENCY 2.
"Working the code". Depth and talent don't hurt either. Romania has
it all. I only wish we had seen more of the team perform (that goes
for every team, of course).

*Milo looks the best she's ever looked. What a shame that the ONE
time she came out on top individually, no all around prize was given.
Of course if there had been an all around contest, the ABSURD new life
rule would have been in effect and who knows who would have won.

*I think I read in gymn that two of the seven girls were from
Bucharest and the rest from Deva. I know Presacan hails from
Bucharest but who is the second athlete? Maranduca? (This would help
to explain why Ana Maria Bican was not on the team.)

2. Kelli Hill is one heck of a coach. If I had a daughter at the
elite level, I'd ship her to Maryland to work with Kelli. Her
positive, enthusiastic support of the team was refreshing and it
seemed to be a real motivating factor.

3. Dom's Hindorff was exceptional. I thought it was high time she
added a release move to her bar set, and she made a great choice.
WOW!!!

4. In trying to show at least one performance from each of the top
six teams, why in the world did NBC choose to show Piskun falling from
beam? Wouldn't it make more sense to highlight an event in which she
was successful?

5. I kinda felt like Saturday's coverage was the "Amy Chow Show."
With all due respect to Amy, I would have liked to see more
performances from other gymnasts (ie, Fabrichnova, Fontaine, Laoies,
etc.) Before anyone flames me , Yes, I realize that their angle was
"Look at how this young, inexperienced girl battled back from a bad
prelim round to help the team", but I grew tired of it.

FINALLY, it looks like I'll be ordering tapes from Billy Mispel or
John Whitmore. I guess that's what you have to do to see more than
just a few select athletes.

Later.

Cole

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 14:51:12 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Worlds

>>I think I read in gymn that two of the seven girls were from Bucharest and
the rest from Deva. I know Presacan hails from Bucharest but who is the
second athlete? Maranduca? (This would help to explain why Ana Maria Bican
was not on the team.)

Actually only Presacan was not a Deva girl. Bican was just not good enough to
make the team according to Belu.

-Susan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 01:05:00 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Worlds-my thoughts [Long ...

>I would also assume it is Steve's decision. My question is...at what point
does Shannon (who is now 18) take charge of her own career/life?

Good point Mara. I doubt we'll ever see it although it would be quite
refreshing to see a gymnast call the shots.---Brian

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 08:57:29 -0500
From: ***@wam.umd.edu
Subject: Worlds-my thoughts [Long ...

>I would also assume it is Steve's decision. My question is...at what point
does Shannon (who is now 18) take charge of her own career/life?

Good point Mara. I doubt we'll ever see it although it would be quite
refreshing to see a gymnast call the shots.---Brian


keep in mind it seems as
though the gymnast feels that their
sucess has been atributed
to their coach...so therefore the coach calls the shots.....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 23:02:27 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Worlds-my thoughts [Long note]

Here are my thoughts on worlds

-Overall very good coverage by NBC although I was hoping to catch a
glimpse of Fab, Phelps, Fontaine etc. but, overall I was pleased

-I'm also very happy that they showed it was Steve's decision for the
entire Shannon deal and not hers. I do agree it was wrong to leave
although I can understand the reasons behind it.

-Kerri is looking fantastic. She must be applauded for how well she
has handled everything in the past year and made her two comebacks
look effortless. She seems a lot more fit than fron trials and seems
a lot stronger. Her form on her layout-step outs is finally back to
where it should be. I like her floor and couldn't believe how high
she landed her full-in. I also liked her leap combination after the
second pass. Her vaults were much improved. She's on of the few who
actually maintains the layout in the vault. I didn't understand the
9.675 on bars. It seemed low to me. Any explanations? Did I miss
something?

-Amy Chow will be a force in the coming years. She needs to clean up
her form and then she's set. I was very happy to see her hit
everything in finals. I couldn't get over her six moves in a row on
bars?! Stalder, 1 1/2, healy, Stalder, piked front, pak salto
down.(!) It's these routines that really don't get reflected in the
code. I can't get over that that is seen as a 9.90 routine.

-Khorkina was looking great. Her floor seemed a bit awkward for some
reason, though. Nothing like GG's. Her second vault was a 9.95 in my
book. How come only a 0.012 higher with a more secure landing? I can
understand why she was upset about scoring.

-Milo looked about the same. I'm glad she finally did the barani-out
off bars although her form throughout on her whips and tumbling tends
to bother me. I like her new music although she seemed to dance in
spite of it.

-Gogean get's the award for most courage. How she could get back up
on the beam is beyond me. I'm sure the reason she got a 9.85 is
because the judges knew what happened the night before and wanted to
applaud her courage.

-Dom looked great as usual. Nothing much to say, just the usual
consitancy.

-This, IMHO, is the best team we have ever assembled. We were
unified, we were fighting for everything and supporting each other. I
loved Amanda's little thing during Amy and Dom's vaults. She's so
cute. Speaking of Amanda, that was the best beam routine I have ever
seen her do. Even with the break overall very steady and she took her
time on everything. It's great to see.

-Mo will most likely be the winner of worlds next year. The Champs
will be in Japan and she's getting 9.900's on European soil. If she
stays on the same track, I can guarantee a win for her next year.

-I realized something while I was watching our team. Even though it
is hard for me to say this, Zmeskal has really no chance of making the
team in 96. We are just progressing too fast and growing too strong
for her to be able to catch up. I'd love to see it happen but,
realistically I don't think it will. We have yet to have out juniors
veying for spots on these teams. Next years USA's and trials will be
great competitions.

There, I'm finally finished.:-) Comments and flaming welcome.<G>
---Brian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 20:48:11 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Worlds-my thoughts [Long note]

>-I'm also very happy that they showed it was Steve's decision for the
entire Shannon deal and not hers. I do agree it was wrong to leave
although I can understand the reasons behind it.

I would also assume it is Steve's decision. My question is...at what
point does Shannon (who is now 18) take charge of her own career/life?

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 23:39:15 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Subject: Worlds-my thoughts [Long note]

> I would also assume it is Steve's decision. My question is...at what point
> does Shannon (who is now 18) take charge of her own career/life?

I think Shannon won't be 18 until February. Which is not to say she
isn't old enough to start taking charge; I just mention it for the
sake of trivia.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Dec 1994 21:45:20 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@rmii.com
Subject: Worlds-my thoughts [Long note] (fwd)

Mara said:
| I would also assume it is Steve's decision. My question is...at what point
| does Shannon (who is now 18) take charge of her own career/life?

Is this true? I thought Miller was 15 in the Olympics, and that she
would turn 18 next year.

Rachele

------------------------------

End of gymn Digest
******************************