gymn Digest Sat, 10 Sep 94 Volume 3 : Issue 15

Today's Topics:
Bogi's floor roundup
Browns' Business Sense
Dynamo (3 msgs)
fulls (5 msgs)
Gymnastics Mags
Heidi Hornbeek update
Injuries (3 msgs)
Libelous Gymn Talk
Magazines Currently Available (long)
maiers (2 msgs)
Michelle Campi
Michelle Campi's Injury
Neat-O Rumor
Pre-Olympic Atlanta Meets
Re Bogy's floor roundup
Technique
ticket prices - '96 Olympic games
upcoming international events

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 11:41:30 -0500
From: ***@expert.cc.purdue.edu
Subject: Bogi's floor roundup

1st - 88 Seoul
2nd - 89 Stuggart

Lori

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 11:14:42 -0400
From: ***@orl.mmc.com
Subject: Browns' Business Sense

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
I finally got around to getting the "Official" word on all of the
Browns gym info.

Susan stated:
>>Rita does own and run all three Brown's gyms in FL though her main interest
>>is the Altamonte Springs club.

This is incorrect. Rita only owns the Altamonte and Winter Park gyms in FL.
Browns Metro is owned by two former Browns Central coaches, who pay a royalty
fee to use the name. Rita DOES NOT own or operate that gym.

>> She will be basing her business out of the Houston club once it opens

Not really. The Altamonte gym will continue to function as it does now.
I saw a rendering of the new gym in Rita's office last night. Looks pretty
good to me (all 52,000 sq ft!). It should be opening around January 10 ...
HOWEVER, I also found out that Rita has leased a 44,000 sq ft facility about
5 minutes away from the new gym site that she will be opening on a temporary
basis sometime in early October!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 21:13:34 PDT
From: ***@geoworks.com
Subject: Dynamo

> If the coaches from Dynamo were revealed as the sadistic weight
> police that they are,

I don't profess to know anything about how Mr. Nunno trains his
gymnasts (and certainly wouldn't defend anyone who promotes young girls to
obsess about their weight), but this seems to be quite a strong statement
based on knowledge that is at best not even second hand.

Dave Litwin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 09:35:09 +0800
From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: Dynamo

ChinaHand writes:

Shouldn't we, as responsible members (for those of us who are) of the USAG be
turning to the leaders of that organization and requesting, nay, DEMANDING an
investigation into this kind of behavior?

Hope some of you guys never end up on *my* jury! ;^) But, seriously, the
only thing we're discussing here is a whole lot of hearsay and little, if
any, fact. Some of the members of Dynamo look a little tense at meets.
That doesn't make the coaches overbearing sadists. Nunno is reported to
having said something sarcastic about Shannon's mom at some meet sometime.
Jennie Thompson doesn't smile much. I think it's very inappropriate to
broadcast across the internet (i.e. the World) the kind of accusations I've
been hearing based on silly stuff like that.

I think this whole Nunno thread has gotten out of hand. Very few of us
have even met the man. Even if we have we're not there training under
him day in day out. He's got a large school with some very accomplished
gymnasts, so he must be doing something right. He's got some personality
quirks, but who doesn't?

We could selectively embellish little "facts" about *anybody* and paint a
very wicked picture of them. If you're especially adept at this you could
make a lot of money in politics. It's surely okay to criticise a coach's
style, or the quality he or she might instill in gymnasts, but let's
refrain from spreading unsubstantiated gossip publicly.

Yours in gymnastics,

-George

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 21:39:22 PDT
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: Dynamo

>But, seriously, the
>only thing we're discussing here is a whole lot of hearsay and little, if
>any, fact. Some of the members of Dynamo look a little tense at meets.
>That doesn't make the coaches overbearing sadists. Nunno is reported to
>having said something sarcastic about Shannon's mom at some meet sometime.

Ahh, too true. Nobody on this forum has turned up anything remotely
resembling evidence.

Nonetheless, such "heresay" would be all that would be necessary to turn our
humble little sport into a media circus. Further, I would suggest that such
heresay is more than enough for an _Impartial and Professional_ USAG to begin
an investigation into the verity of such heresay. If Mr. Nunno is innocent of
abusing his gymnasts, then fine...such an investigation, if properly pursued,
would clear his name.

But if in fact they investigate and find that it is TRUE, as Amanda pointed
out, the entire sport would be suspect. Because of his lofty position,
bringing down Nunno would do serious if not mortal damage to gymnastics. So
we are left with a tidy little moral quandry, it would seem. Save the
sportsman...or save the sport?

David

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 00:46:55 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: fulls

We just hired a new Russian coach who is insisting on teaching fulls leaving
the arms overhead the whole time. He says in Russia they only do 2/1 and 3/1
twists with bringing the arms in. On fulls they leave them out. I have never
seen this. Does anybody have any input?

Leesmo

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Sep 94 22:50:44 PDT
From: ***@geoworks.com
Subject: fulls

> We just hired a new Russian coach who is insisting on teaching fulls leaving
> the arms overhead the whole time. He says in Russia they only do 2/1 and 3/1
> twists with bringing the arms in. On fulls they leave them out. I have never
> seen this. Does anybody have any input?
>
> Leesmo

There are lots of ways to do fulls. I once heard of a coach who
would do double fulls on trampoline with his hands in his pockects just to
prove that your body motion alone is sufficient for quite a bit of
rotation, and it doesn't matter so much where your arms are.
Obviously a good shortening of your radius will speed up your
rotation, but how you do it is extremely varried. One of the more common
ways is to bring the arms in to your chest (elbows bent, hands in front of
the shoulder rotating backward) (shown below as #1). Some bring one hand
behind their head (arm of the shoulder rotating backward) (#2). I've also
heard of bringing the arm of the shoulder going forward straight down
accross the body (no bend in the elbow) toward the opposite hip, in which
case the arm of the shoulder rotating backward stays up (#3).

Although I've never heard of leaving both your hands up when doing
a full (because you usually use pulling your hands down (or body up) as a
means of rotation), I would guess that it isn't really necessary to pull
them into the body for a single twist. Perhaps they teach this way so that
once you do bring your arms in you will have quite a bit more rotation, and
it will make the double full that much easier.

#1 #2 #3 |
___ |
(_) (_) / (_)|
\ // \ /| \ |
|\//| |\/ | |\ |
----- ----- --\--
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |


I'm not sure this really helps any,

Dave

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 08:33:39 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@indiana.edu
Subject: fulls

The coach here has the kids "buckle your seatbelt fast".
So the kids bring both arms down to their hip pocket. Depending how
many times they go around, they really bring the elbow back hard.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 11:36:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@tiger.hsc.edu
Subject: fulls

I was taught fulls in a similar manner. You will see (hopefully) many elite
gymnasts performing a single full with out (essentially) using their arms.

Julius

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 12:13:51 -0400
From: ***@riscee.bxb.dec.com
Subject: fulls

If your arms are straight over your head while you are twisting, then when your
are upside down, your arms would be pointing to the ground. Wouldn't this
"appearance-wise" look like you don't have the same kind of height as if your
arms were across your chest?

Steve (arms across the chest twister)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 94 19:03:57 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gymnastics Mags

Does anyone have any old gymnastics magazines or where I can get some? Also
if anyone has where to get subscriptions, please pass it on to me. There are
none in the bookstores, so im looking for info on some.
Thanks a bunch,
Anne

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 14:33:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@OCVAXA.CC.OBERLIN.EDU
Subject: Heidi Hornbeek update

This information comes via the 9/7/94 edition of the Arizona Republic
(Phoenix) newspaper, in an article by Gary Horowitz. the following information
is excerpted from the article. All direct quotes are in quotations.
Hornbeek missed nationals due to a stress fracture in her back.
She is a senior in high school and a member of the National Honor
Society. About her college plans, she says:
""Most people think that (17 is) old for a gymnast... I feel like I'm
not old, just more mature. Now I have the knowledge of the sport. I feel like I
haven't stopped learning or reached my potential."
"There's all different options.... some (college) coaches have said I
can go to college and still train for the '96 Olympics. I could be redshirted
for the first year. Or I could stay and train here (Arizona Sunrays club in
Phoenix under Dan Witenstein) and take some basic (college) courses at a
community college or ASU. Or I could just go to college and have fun.... A lot
of it will depend on my body.... Can it hold up through the intense training?
If it's going to be rough and it will prevent me from picking up my children
later in life then we'll just back off. But if it's OK, I really want to train
for the Olympics. I love competing internationally."
Among the colleges recruiting her are Arizona, ASU, Alabama and
Stanford, the article states. I imagine that Florida is in that list too, Ron.
The article also gives info and quotes about her up-and-coming teammate, Lea
Carver, who is in the Olympic Training camp this week in Colo. Springs.

It was nice to read an article about a top U.S. gymnast who is older
and seems to have a lot of maturity and perspective about her future in life
and in gymnastics. I can send along info about Lea if anyone wants it.
Cara


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 15:44:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@tiger.hsc.edu
Subject: Injuries

Hello!

I was wondering if anyone has heard any further developments on Campi's,
Strug's, or Mitova's various medical conditions?

Julius Esclamdo I was wondering if anyone has hear

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 1:21:45 BST
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Injuries


> I was wondering if anyone has heard any further developments on Campi's,
> Strug's, or Mitova's various medical conditions?

Michelle Campi has just moved to Oklahoma City last week and had started
in her new school. Gymnastics-wise last time I heard she was beginning to
do some basic skills on the various pieces of apparatus. She said she's
going to take it slow to get back into the swing of things.

Sherwin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 13:54:18 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Injuries

>
> > I was wondering if anyone has heard any further developments on Campi's,
> > Strug's, or Mitova's various medical conditions?
>
> Michelle Campi has just moved to Oklahoma City last week and had started
> in her new school. Gymnastics-wise last time I heard she was beginning to
> do some basic skills on the various pieces of apparatus. She said she's
> going to take it slow to get back into the swing of things.
>
> Sherwin

Is Campi going to college? She isn't training at Dynamo, is
she?
If Michelle is indeed retiring, I'm definitely going to miss her
in the national team lineup. She is definitely one of our best and most
artistic gymnasts.

-Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 00:04:48 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Libelous Gymn Talk

To All:
Folks, as a newspaper editor, I've been cringing at all the talk
regarding Steve Nunno.
Let me put this bluntly: he could sue you guys for libel, and he would
win.
You've got to understand that the Gymn list is considered a publication,
and that means its writers -- you -- can be sued. If you want to talk about
some coach being accused of something, raise the issue behind the accusation.
For example, if you've heard of a coach being accused of picking on his
student's weight, then say: I've heard rumors of a high-powered coach yelling
at his students for losing a single pound. Hasn't the weight issue gone a bit
far?"
By talking this way, you are naming no one and are focusing on a concrete
issue. But when you raise an issue publicly and say, "I heard so-and-so did
this," you are libeling that person.
If Steve Nunno were to read this and take you into court, the court would
ask what evidence you have. With no evidence, you'd lose.
It is true that in some states you have to prove malice to get money from
a libel suit, but malice also is defined as a "reckless disregard." That
means if you simply hear a rumor and then pass it on publicly with no proof,
that's "reckless disregard."
Anyhow, I thought I'd pass this on.
You can pass on rumors that are harmless (such as, "I heard so-and-so is
going to this gym), but rumors that have accusations in them simply can't be
put on Gymn without risk of lawsuit.
---- Ronald Dupont, Jr in Gainesville, Fla.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 94 20:38:27 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Magazines Currently Available (long)

I've assembled this list for people who write to the Hall of Fame and ask
this question and am passing it on due to the recent questions about
magazines available. This has ***nothing what-so-ever to do with the Hall of
Fame*** and all descriptions are my own. None of this is meant in any way as
an "ad" of any kind. It's simply a FAQ at the IGHOF so I've made the effort
to be as complete as possible. If you have any additions or corrections
please e-mail me at stobchatay@aol.com ... This isn't quite the letter in
full as I send it since the complete letter also includes "Gymn" referances
as well as USAG Online but I assume that you all are well aquainted with
those services ;-)

"The Australian Gymnast"
official magazine of the Australian gymnastics federation
in English
4 issues per year; $30 Australian (about $22 US)
Lower Ground Floor
416 St Kilda Rd
Melbourne VIC 3004
Australia
Rapidly growing magazine...meet reports...mostly B&W photos

"The Gymnast"
official magazine of the British Gymnastics Federation (BAGA)
in English
12 issues per year; write for current price
Worldwide Subscriptions
Unit 4 Gibbs Reed Farm
Pashley Rd., Ticehurst, Wadhurst, East Sussex TN5 7HE
Great Britain
Phone Ticehurst (0580-200657)
very well written and complete (and funny) meet reports...some color but
mostly B&W pictures

"Le Gymnaste"
official magazine of the French Gymnastics Federation (FFG)
in French
10 issues per year for 150 francs
7 ter, cour des Petites Ecuries
75010 Paris
France
much like "IG" (color and B&W pics...some posters...meet
descriptions...results)


"Gym Stars"
in English
4 issues per year for $17.50 (accepts US checks)
44 Fitzjohn's Ave.
London NW3 5LX
Great Britain
lots of pictures and posters - all color...short on text...geared towards
younger readers

"International Gymnast"
in English
10 issues per year for $24 (Visa and MC accepted)
PO Box 2450
Oceanside, CA 92051
USA
Phone (619-722-0030)
Fax (619-722-6208)
B&W and color pictures as well as posters & centerfolds...detailed meet
reports...results

"Olympisches Turnen Aktuell"
official magazine of the DTB (German Gymnastics Federation)
in German
12 issues per year; write for current price
Amselweg 5
5908 Neunkirchen
Germany
Phone (02735/3263)
*Lots* of obscure results...mostly B&W with few pictures...meet
descriptions....concentrates heavily on German athletes

"Technique"
official technical magazine of the USAG
in English
10 issues per year for $25.00
Pan Am Plaza 201 S Capitol Ave. Suite 300
Indianapolis, IN 46225
USA
Phone (317-237-5050)
no pictures...B&W newsprint format...technical articles...geared to coaches
and such

"USA Gymnastics"
official magazine of the US Gymnastics Federation (USAG)
in English
6 issues per year for $15.00
Pan Am Plaza 201 S Capitol Ave. Suite 300
Indianapolis, IN 46225
USA
Phone (317-237-5050)
lots of pictures...all color...little text...few results...concentrates on
American athletes...geared for younger readers


"World Of Gymnastics "
official magazine of the FIG
In English, German, and French
6 issues per year for approx. $30
Box 359 - 2740 Moutier 1
Switzerland
Fax (41-32-936671)
Lots of pictures...all color...little text in 3 languages...official reports
on FIG happenings...results

Please keep in mind other magazines do exist - Sport Eye out of Japan for
one - as well as many club and private newsletters (for more information on
these try calling clubs in your area...look in the phone book under
"gymnastics") but the above are the only ones I currently have any
information on. For information on whether a particular country has a
magazine available write to it's federation. I do not represent the above
titles in any way and all information is current as far as I know but is
subject to change at any time and without prior notice. The descriptions are
solely my own and are not meant to encourage or discourage your
subscriptions. Most publications will issue you a sample issue upon request
before you commit to a full paid subscription. Many of the foreign
publications would require you getting a money order in the currency of that
country. If you think you know of a unique or notable magazine or other
gymnastics service not listed here (foreign or domestic) then please write me
(Susan Southall) at the Hall of Fame.

As always old ('56 to '76 mostly) back issues of "IG", "Gymnastics World",
"Mademoiselle Gymnast", & "Acrosport" are available from the Hall of Fame.
For more information write to the Hall of Fame or e-mail me here.

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 94 12:59:42 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: maiers

I heard Tania Maiers was training elsewhere. Does anybody know where?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 14:49:12 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: maiers

> I heard Tania Maiers was training elsewhere. Does anybody know where?

Maiers is training at Colorado Aerials under Tom Forester.


Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 17:16:00 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Michelle Campi

>Is Campi going to college? She isn't training at Dynamo, is <

I realize that this has been re-hashed many times already but here goes one
more time ...

Michelle's coach, Rick Newman, left his job at Poszar's to work with Steve
Nunno at Dynamo. Michelle has been Rick's student virtually forever and so
she decided to follow him. Her injury post-poned that "following" for some
time but now she is starting (just *starting* mind you) to get back into
gymnastics training again and is therefore making the move. No one can know
wether she will ever manage to be at an elite level again but she (and
everyone else I'm sure) is hopeful.

Michelle is a Sr. in High School this year (I'm pretty sure that's correct).

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 01:47:16 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Michelle Campi's Injury

At least 2 people out there still don't know what happened to Miss Campi
(they wrote me with questions after my last post) and since I'm assuming that
others may be suffering in quiet wonder <g> so I'll run down the Cliff Notes
version one more time for the interested and/or curious.

In Feburary or March (again that "too lazy to look it up" sickness strikes
me) Michelle Campi fell off the uneven bars in a practice session and
suffered a spinal injury ... essentially breaking her neck. Geza told me that
it was on an "uprise" from her optional routine and not the slip grip from
the compo set that we originally heard. (that *was* what Kerri Strug fell on
at Classic BTW). She has had surgery and thereapy and now sometimes still
wears a back brace but is in pretty good shape overall.

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 00:05:03 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Neat-O Rumor

To All:
Okay, this comes from a third-hand source who heard it from somebody, but
it's such a cool rumor that I thought I'd post it on here. (And, yes, it's a
non-libelous rumor.)
The rumor is that Henrietti Onodi has paid back all her prize money and
made herself eligible for the NCAA. Further, the rumor goes, she has become
friends with Kerri Strug and both of them are going to attend LSU next year.
Wow! Now *that* would be a recruiting class, indeed..
-- Ronald Dupont, Jr. in Gainesville, Fla.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 05:56:42 -0400
From: ***@cykick.jvnc.net
Subject: Pre-Olympic Atlanta Meets

Brent writes (in part):
>...The article also mentioned
>that Atlanta wanted to host some preliminary events in about 18 of the
>Olympic sports during the summer of 1995 as a warm-up for the Olympics.
>Anybody know if any gymnastics is going to held down there?

Well, part of the "rules" (for lack of a better term at this hour) for
hosting the Olympic Games is that "test events" must be sponsored, usually
in the year preceding the Games. This is done to ensure the facilities are
adequate to accommodate athletes, spectators, TV, etc.

Of course, participating in a test event also provides a psychological
advantage for athletes - they now have experience competing at the Olympic
venue. This explains why such figure skating events as Piruetten and
Trophie Lalique took on greater importance than usual in 1993 and 1991
respectively, as more elite skaters than usual competed.

So, look for National Championships and even some international meets in
various sports to be held in Atlanta over the next year.

Time for breakfast, then back to work...
Helena

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 22:10:44 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Re Bogy's floor roundup

>1st - 88 Seoul
2nd - 89 Stuggart

Other way around.

2nd Seoul (behind Silivas)
1st-tie Stuttgart (with Silivas)

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 15:46:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@tiger.hsc.edu
Subject: Technique

Just wondering if people are still interested in getting
descriptions/explinations of the various moves.

Is all of that information alredy in a FAQ somewhere?

Julius

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 94 11:12:32 BST
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: ticket prices - '96 Olympic games

>Not too sure what the "gala" is. It was listed in the finals column. None
>of the other sports seemed to have it. The touch screen mention that tickets
>go on sale the Spring of '95, which is actually pretty soon.

Its not the gala thing like what they do in skating is it where they
just sort of have an exhibition really, show off routines and stuff.

Clive

England 2, USA 0. :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 17:05:56 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: upcoming international events

I don't know if this is where this would go, but here are dates for
upcoming gymnastics events world wide if anyone's interested in what's
going on when and where in the upcoming season:

September
9-11 Black Sea Cup @ Odessa, Ukraine
10-11 Sables d'Or Tournament @ Varna, Bulgaria
15-20 Belarus Cup @ Minsk
23/24 Baltic Championships @ Talinn, Estonia
26-30 Rusuden Sikharulidze Prize International Tournament @ Batumi, Georgia
30/31 International Estonian Cup @ Talinn

October
11-15 Uzbek Nationals @ Tashkent, Uzbekistan
14-16 Friendship Cup @ Athens, Greece
18-23 Georgian Nationals @ TBA, Georgia

November
1 Brest Championships @ Brest, Belarus
24-27 Latvian Cup @ Riga

December
TBA Joaquin Blume Memorial @ Barcelona
TBA Int'l Junior Championships @ Canberra, Australia
2-4 DTB Cup @ Stuttgart
10/11 Chunichi Cup @ Nagoya, Japan
15 Int'l Tournament @ Fukuoka, Japan
15-19 Junior Nat'l Belarus Champs @ TBA
15-21 Pacific Alliance @ TBA, New Zealand

* All of the above are men's and women's, none are rhythmic unless there
are M & W's also (ie Pacific Alliance)

-Amanda


------------------------------

End of gymn Digest
******************************