gymn Digest Fri, 9 Sep 94 Volume 3 : Issue 14

Today's Topics:
1983-92 VIDEOS FOR SALE
Bogi's floor roundup
Bogy's medal count (3 msgs)
Borden At UF
Dynamo (2 msgs)
Gymnastics GIFs
Jennie T @ Dynamo
Jennie Thompson (2 msgs)
Miller/Nunno/Mom
NBC Coverage
Podkopayeva
Pre-Olympic Atlanta Meets
Seeking Your Trivia Questions: Floor Exercise
SV of hand-front tuck (2 msgs)
Tchusovitina (2 msgs)
ticket prices - '96 Olympic games
underrated gymnasts
USA Champs: EF (2 msgs)
USA Team Prediction Results (2 msgs)
Zmeskal's dance (2 msgs)
Zmeskal's dance? (3 msgs)

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

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Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 0:42:23 18000
From: ***@freenet.scri.fsu.edu
Subject: 1983-92 VIDEOS FOR SALE

I've gotten a few messages from members of gymn asking where they can
buy some QUALITY gymn vids,so I thought I'd just post this message for
everyone.The best videos that I seen are from Temple's head coach Fred
Turroff.You can write him for info at:

Fred Turoff
5538 Morris Street
Philadelphia, PA 19144

He's attended every World and Olympics from 1983-1992.In the videos
that I've seen the coverage and quality are excellent.--

Hope that I was of some help,

Billy

PS>Does anyone have a exhibition or Pro meet that was on television
around 1981-82.My former coach Ron Galimore,Kurt Thomas,and Paul Hunt
were in it(I think.)I'll pay for a copy or trade for it.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 12:47:40 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Bogi's floor roundup

There seems to be quite a lot of banter over which of Boginskaya's floor
routines is everyone's favorite and which was best etc. So it would be
intersting to take a poll...
E-mail me (by 9 Sept please) the list of your favorite routines-
Example:
1st: '89 Stuttgart
2nd: '92
3rd: Seoul
etc

and I'll post the results...

Later
amanda
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 00:51:11 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Bogy's medal count

Could someone tell me whether I am correct in Bogy's World and Olympic medal
count at 15? Here's the list I compiled and I'd appreciate any corrections.
Thanks---Brian
1987 Worlds-
Team Silver
Beam Bronze
1988 Olympics-
Team Gold
AA bronze
Vault Gold
Bars bronze (this is one I'm a bit hazy about)
Floor silver
1989 Worlds-
Team Gold
AA Gold
Floor Gold
1991 Worlds
Team Gold
AA silver
Beam Gold
1992 Worlds-
Vault bronze (Another I am hazy about)
1992 Olympics
Team Gold

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 09:13:20 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Bogy's medal count

>[1988] Bars bronze (this is one I'm a bit hazy about)

No -- it was Silivas, Shushunova, and Kersten (I forget the order except for
Silivas).

>1992 Worlds-
Vault bronze (Another I am hazy about)

I think it was a silver? -- 1. Onodi 2. Boginskaya 3. Chusovitina

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 19:32:48 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Bogy's medal count

>No -- it was Silivas, Shushunova, and Kersten (I forget the order except for
Silivas).

G-Silivas
S-Kersten
B-Shushunova

all got 10 in the finals (even though Kersten and Shus had visible errors).
Bogie thru a virtually perfect (but compositionally uninspired) routine and
received 9.987.

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 20:54:08 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Borden At UF

To All:
Just a quick note. Amanda Borden took one of her recruiting visits to the
University of Florida this past Saturday.
---- Ron

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 16:36:14 PDT
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: Dynamo

>Steve is rather fanatical about weight, and Claudia (Shannon's >mom) told me
that Shannon came home in tears one day
>because Steve had yelled at her for gaining a pound.

In a just world, someone would realize that this is EXACTLY the kind of
behavior that constitutes a serious violation of the Code of Ethics of USA
Gymnastics, and would thus put Mr. Nunno's glutius in a very deep crack with
the powers that be.

Shouldn't we, as responsible members (for those of us who are) of the USAG be
turning to the leaders of that organization and requesting, nay, DEMANDING an
investigation into this kind of behavior? OR should we simply avert our eyes
and tell ourselves that because Mr. Nunno produced a champion we should all
ignore it?

Anyone? Anyone?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 20:23:17 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Dynamo

> >Steve is rather fanatical about weight, and Claudia (Shannon's >mom) told me
> that Shannon came home in tears one day
> >because Steve had yelled at her for gaining a pound.
>
> In a just world, someone would realize that this is EXACTLY the kind of
> behavior that constitutes a serious violation of the Code of Ethics of USA
> Gymnastics, and would thus put Mr. Nunno's glutius in a very deep crack with
> the powers that be.
>
> Shouldn't we, as responsible members (for those of us who are) of the USAG be
> turning to the leaders of that organization and requesting, nay, DEMANDING an
> investigation into this kind of behavior? OR should we simply avert our eyes
> and tell ourselves that because Mr. Nunno produced a champion we should all
> ignore it?
>
> Anyone? Anyone?

Obviously, Mr. Nunno's (and Peggy Liddick's- I've heard similar
stories about her too) behavior is inexcusable and completely unneccessary.
I mean, this is the stuff for bad TV movies! Wouldn't the anti-gym press
love to get a hold of this! The problem though, is that because we're
dealing with little girls under 18, it would be difficult to expose this
behavior and publicly "punish" their nutso coaches without hurting the
gymnasts too.
What could be done I wonder? Could Nunno be suspended from
coaching for a period of time? But if that happens, where do these girls,
most of whom have sacrificed and moved away from home to train there, go?
Nunno could be suspended from USA Gymnastics Professional Membership as a
coach, for violating the Code of Ethics (assuming there some sort of
clause about inappropriate and cruel guidance for eating). But
realistically folks, do you think that USA Gymnastics has the guts to
suspend the coach of *Shannon Miller*? Be serious! Not in my lifetime!
No matter how much USAG may pretend that the emotional stability of the
gymnasts comes first, we know otherwise. The winning performances come
first, and inapropriate behavior is ignored because of the glory brought
to USA Gymnastics by Nunno's gymnasts (or gymnast shall I say)...
Do you all remember a couple of NBA seasons ago, when a player was
blatantly fouled by the KING Himself, Michael Jordan, and nothing was done
about it? The referees did not call a foul. The player complained about
how Jordan "ran the league". It's true, Jordan pumped so much money into
pro-basketball that he was held in higher regard than other players, at
the expense of other players, because nobody wanted to take a chance and
have Jordan criticize the league or leave. His behavior was not the
point, his winning abilities and money making status was.
If the coaches from Dynamo were revealed as the sadistic weight
police that they are, it would also expose the gymnasts, who currently
suffer from the effects of the f*'ed up guidance of Nunno and Liddick,
and the girls would be constantly asked questions about their eating
disorders (and I don't want to hear that they don't have them). All of
this would cast a negative light on USA Gymnastics. We don't want that
to happen do we? ;-)

Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 13:06:59 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gymnastics GIFs

All I could find was Olympic Hopeful-Kim Zmeskal, and I heard that there were
4 Gymnastics GIFs. Anyone know how or have instructions on how to get the
other three?

Thanks,

Jessica :)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 12:31:50 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Jennie T @ Dynamo

Who else thinks Jennie Thompson will return to Karolyi's to be coached by
Aleksandrov? My guess is before the American Cup...or sooner than you
can say "Steve Koresh"!


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 19:11:48 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Jennie Thompson

>Who else thinks Jennie Thompson will reture to Karolyi's to
>be coached by Aleksandrov?

Jennie used to train at Bela's?



Anne

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 20:33:02 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Jennie Thompson

> >Who else thinks Jennie Thompson will reture to Karolyi's to
> >be coached by Aleksandrov?
>
> Jennie used to train at Bela's?
>
>
>
> Anne

Yes, Jennie had trained with Bela most of her gym "career". She
started gymnastics with Nunno when she was about 5 or 6, but his program
was rather weak and she soon switched to Karolyi's, where she trained
until Bela retired, and in '93 she returned to Dynamo.

(If you receive IG, there was a story about Thompson and Moceanu
at Karolyi's in the March 93 issue).

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 12:33:32 EST
From: ***@email.cfr.org
Subject: Miller/Nunno/Mom

Steve wrote:
>Can someone tell me what Nunno v. Shannon's mother exactly refer to?

Beth wrote a post on 9/1 which mentioned an altercation between Claudia,
Shannon's mom and Steve Nunno (Nunno yelling at Miller about gaining an
extra pound & Claudia confronting him back in 1992). Also, Beth mentioned a
derogatory remark made by Nunno concerning Shannon's mother while Miller was
sitting nearby. All might be "peachy" between all parties at present, though
one never knows.

"...the sands of the hourglass...As the World Turns...." :-)

Connie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 16:27:00 PDT
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: NBC Coverage

Regarding Gurova's note about NBC coverage, may I amplify:

>Ditch Maryanne Grabavoy.

Maryanne doesn't want to do color--she obviously wants to be a "serious"
journalist. Fine. But don't hand her laurels for making a child break down on
national television. This sort of journalistic style reeks of bullying, and
doesn't belong on a network like NBC--or anywhere, for that matter.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 19:45:18 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Podkopayeva


Is it just me, or does everyone else agree that if Liliya Podkopayeva
were to do a double layout on floor, it would be the best double layout
that there ever could be?
Just something to think about if there's nothing else to think about...



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 13:33:04 EDT
From: ***@eos.ncsu.edu
Subject: Pre-Olympic Atlanta Meets

I recently read in USA TODAY that the schedule for the 1996 Olympics is
set (except for some track & field stuff). The article also mentioned
that Atlanta wanted to host some preliminary events in about 18 of the
Olympic sports during the summer of 1995 as a warm-up for the Olympics.
Anybody know if any gymnastics is going to held down there?

--Brent

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 21:15:50 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Seeking Your Trivia Questions: Floor Exercise

Please send me any and all trivia questions ASAP.

Topic: The Floor Exercise (Men and Women)

Remember, send both the question and answer to me via private e-mail at
MaraEL@aol.com.

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 17:00:54 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: SV of hand-front tuck

>| >1. Dawes 9.75 (SV= 10, 9.7)
|
| If the Handspring pike-front has a start value of 9.7, what is the start
>| value of the handspring front-tuck?


>Sorry, that was a typo. It should say SV= 10, 9.8.

OK, assuming the front-pike at SV=9.8, would the front-tuck come out of a
9.6?

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 09:13:12 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: SV of hand-front tuck

>OK, assuming the front-pike at SV=9.8, would the front-tuck come out of a
9.6?

A tucked front is worth a 9.7. They go up 0.1 at a time: tucked front 9.7,
tucked front 1/2 and piked front 9.8, piked front 1/2 9.9.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 12:15:26 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Tchusovitina

Here's a trivia question:

What three moves does Oksana Tchusovitina have named after her in
the Code of Points?


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 17:47:03 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Tchusovitina

Hop-full on UB (and can I tell you how much it annoys me that Kathy J. is
incapable of giving her the credit for it w/o including Shannon? "She and
Shannon Miller were the first to do it" blah blah blah...)

Layout full-out on FX (even though Tugikova's supposed full-in looked an
awful lot like a full-out to me...)

Tucked full-out on UB (tucked full-out on FX and eagle giants also come to
mind, but I think it's the UB dismount).

Here's a question for the linguists/French speakers out there: Isn't "tch"
actually the French spelling of what is a "ch" sound in English? And "ch" in
French sounds like "sh" in English (hence the pronunciation of "Michelle")?
So where we have "Tchusovitina", "Timochenko", and "Chtcherbo" in French, we
have "Chusovitina", "Timoshenko", and "Shcherbo" (shortened to Scherbo for
convenience) in English? And "gui" as in "Boguinskaia" -- that's French,
too, isn't it? (that's how it is in Spanish, since in Spanish "gi" is
pronounced like "hi" in English, and the "u" is necessary to make the "g"
hard.) Anyone?

-- Adriana

PS
George: Couldn't find your address to email directly, so I thought I'd take
this opportunity to say that Jerry Rice is God. :-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 12:07:49 +0800
From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: ticket prices - '96 Olympic games

Hey, gang,

Just got back from Atlanta. Did my usual visit to the Olympic Experience,
a store run by the ACOG. They sell T-shirts and pins and stuff like that.
The store also has a big map of downtown Atlanta showing all of the venues
for the various sports, and a bunch of little TV monitors on a wall showing
highlights from previous Olympics. It's pretty exciting, and Atlanta is
buzzing with activity gearing up for the Olympic Games.

I bought Rachele an Olympic pin since she works so hard (but don't tell her:
It's a secret ;^) I was going to buy one of the gymnastics pins, but I
think the generic Atlanta '96 pin looked nicer.

On my way out I picked up a handout with the price structure for tickets for
the '96 games. Some of the prices seem pretty reasonable:

Artistic Gymnastics

session prices # of sessions

Preliminaries $75 $35 $25 8
Finals $200 $100 $75 6
Gala $250 $125 $100 1

Total 15

Not too sure what the "gala" is. It was listed in the finals column. None
of the other sports seemed to have it. The touch screen mention that tickets
go on sale the Spring of '95, which is actually pretty soon.

Yours in gymnastics,

-George

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 11:44 PDT
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: underrated gymnasts

Onodi and Strug are not ones Id pick out as underrated, but actually they
are more on the overrated side. I can outleap Onodi in tight levis and that
is a scary thought. If Kerri was any more stiff she'd be in the morgue, but
anyway, if we really want to talk underrated how about Vanda Hadarean, Yulia
Kut and Sylvia Mitova.

The odds of Zmeskal coming back are about the same as Yulia Yurkina tumbling
double layout.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 05:49:21 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: USA Champs: EF

>Martha Grubbs then won the respect of every gymnastically
knowledgeable person there by throwing a Yurchenko double full. Her
entourage of coaches whooped it up and everyone who knew anything about
gymnastics threw in their applause. Only a 9.6? It was then a bit
anticlimatic when she threw a hand front tuck, with a step.

Sounds like for vault she's better off in elite than in college <g>

>(name deleted) had two consecutive hop-fulls (full hops?)

The Bunny Hop perhaps? ;-)

>(called a Hristakieva --sp

Yup

>1. Dawes 9.75 (SV= 10, 9.7)

If the Handspring pike-front has a start value of 9.7, what is the start
value of the handspring front-tuck?

Mara

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 08:18:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: USA Champs: EF

| >1. Dawes 9.75 (SV= 10, 9.7)
|
| If the Handspring pike-front has a start value of 9.7, what is the start
| value of the handspring front-tuck?


Sorry, that was a typo. It should say SV= 10, 9.8.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 17:01:00 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: USA Team Prediction Results

Well guys, here is the official US Team roster prediction:

1. Dawes (34 votes)
2. Borden (26)
3. Fontaine (18)
4. Chow (16)
5. Strug (14)
6. Miller (8)
7. Webster (7)

also receiving votes: Phelps (5), McDermott (4), Reid (3), Cain (1)

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 21:15:46 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: USA Team Prediction Results

>Shannon really wanted to go but Steve said that if they did that then they
wouldn't have any break before American Cup in January.

American Cup is late Feb/early March. This is getting more and more
ridiculous. Who posted that message?

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 19:21:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Zmeskal's dance

My guess would be that Kim's dance had a lot to do with the choreographer.
I mean, ALL the Karolyi girls had that "cutesy" style, which I personally don't
care for at all. But what I can't figure out is how Geza could come up with
such a BEAUTIFUL floor routine for Michelle Campi. THAT was artistic
gymnastics, in my opinion. But Bela evidently went for the cutesy style too.
Remember the horrible floor routine he had Nadia performing in 1978? She even
said in her autobiography that she was embarrassed to perform it, but Bela
insisted. I doubt Kim had much of a choice if Bela insisted she be cutesy. By
the way, Shannon's mom told me that Shannon has always outright refused to be
cutesy. If the choreographer puts in silly wiggles or hand waving, etc.,
Shannon just won't do it. Way to go, Shannon! So even though we've seen the
same routine from her for a long time, thank goodness it's at least artistic
and stylish!

Beth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 20:02:12 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Zmeskal's dance

>ALL the Karolyi girls had that "cutesy" style

Except for Rhonda Faehn and Betty Okino

I once asked Hilary Grivich why she never did a set to classical music. She
told me essentially that she didn't feel she was a good dancer, so doing
classical would make her look worse than doing cutesy...

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 12:36:20 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Zmeskal's dance?

Brian Judd:
>Zmeskal's dance wasn't...exactly horrible.

Yes it was. Let's quit using the word "dance" when it doesn't apply too...


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 16:58:24 EST
From: ***@email.cfr.org
Subject: Zmeskal's dance?

>Brian Judd:
>Zmeskal's dance wasn't...exactly horrible.

Gurova:
>Yes it was. Let's quit using the word "dance" when it doesn't apply too...

Was it because Zmeskal was a bad dancer (something disputable I'm sure by
others) or that the choreographer went for a certain look that tended to
be "power/cutsey" because of body type. Mind you since the choreographer
was Geza Pozsar, some "dance" movements can be inherently repetitive (imho);
I've seen some used going back to the Comaneci days (!).

BTW- Since we sometimes go in for personality analysis here ;-), does anyone
know what type of person Geza is? Seems nice but a bit immutable.

Connie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 08:51:05 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@indiana.edu
Subject: Zmeskal's dance?

>
> BTW- Since we sometimes go in for personality analysis here ;-), does anyone
> know what type of person Geza is? Seems nice but a bit immutable.
>
> Connie
>
My daughter, Jessamyn, had him for floor at the first TOPs training camp.
She said he was a real character. He did tons of funny stuff to make the
kids laugh. He seemed to really like kids. The coaches who went with
Jessamyn said the same thing. He was really goofy around the kids.

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End of gymn Digest
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