gymn Digest Wed, 30 Mar 94 Volume 2 : Issue 96

Today's Topics:
Coach behavior
College Coach, Judge Fight (3 msgs)
M. Campi's injury (was PLEASE READ IMPORTANT)
Marsden on probation (3 msgs)
PAC-10 Championships
PLEASE READ IMPORTANT
PRK PH "guy"
Protests (2 msgs)
RE:Protests (3 msgs)
Region VII Championships in Allentown (2 msgs)
REPOST: Campi interview
SEC Women's Championships
Tkatchev front (3 msgs)
URGENT-- EVERYONE READ NOW!!!! (2 msgs)

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

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Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 14:07:11 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Coach behavior

On the question of the 0.50 deduction -- I can answer only what the FIG Code
says, since I don't have the US rules that govern NCAA competition. Listed
under the prohibited actions by a coach is making inquires about scores
during the competition. But looking under the deductions, there isn't
anything listed specific to that. The closest thing I can find is unexcused
interruption or delay of the competition, and the penalty for that is
diqualification. So I guess this isn't very helpful,but I thought I'd
mention it anyway.

-- Gimnasta

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 19:23:05 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: College Coach, Judge Fight

To All:
Utah Coach Greg Marsden and the meet referee at the BYU-Utah meet at BYU
got into a visible, angry argument, with the referee apparently taking a
half-point off Utah's score going into the third rotation.
Upset, Marsden forfeited the meet by simply having his gymnasts touch the
beam and floor mat and then saluting the judges. Fans both booed and cheered
each time his gymnasts did it.
The tension between the two actually started earlier in the year at the
UF-Utah meet at Utah. At that meet, UF was getting very low 9s for bars
routines that had no falls. These were the same routines that were getting
9.7s and 9.8s at all the other meets.
Greg Marsden later complained about the judging, saying the judges
couldn't even get in range on the starting values. Later, UF's coach, Judi
Avener, complained, too. Well, this all came back to haunt Marsden when the
meet referee re-appeared at the BYU meet.
Apparently, the thin ice was cracked when Marsden went to a score-flasher
just before the third rotation and asked her to turn the starting-value
scores so he could see them. That started the argument again between him and
the meet referee.
Okay, Gimnasta and all other judges, two questions:
Is it a violation for a coach to talk to a score flasher?
And can't a judge only take a .3 deduction? (This one apparently took a .5
deduction).
-- Ron

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 21:10:47 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: College Coach, Judge Fight

Ron said

>To All:
Utah Coach Greg Marsden and the meet referee at the BYU-Utah meet at BYU
got into a visible, angry argument, with the referee apparently taking a
half-point off Utah's score going into the third rotation.
Upset, Marsden forfeited the meet by simply having his gymnasts touch the
beam and floor mat and then saluting the judges. Fans both booed and cheered
each time his gymnasts did it.


How will this effect Utah's team standing, as well as the standing of the
individuals competing in AA and event rankings? Can this be a score that
will be dropped?

Anyone?

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 12:09:26 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: College Coach, Judge Fight

To All:
This meet won't affect Utah's standing, because it can be dropped when
figuring the regional average.
-- Ron

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 12:03:55 CST
From: ***@scoter.cdev.com
Subject: M. Campi's injury (was PLEASE READ IMPORTANT)

> on tuesday nite michele campi was practicing and slipped off bars doing a
> slip grip which is part of the compulsory bar routine.....she broke 3
> vertibrae and was in surgury on saturday.

*sigh* Seems to be a semi-rash of elite neck injuries - Sylvia Mitova,
Kerry Huston, now Michele (Michelle?). At least U.C. Davis Medical Center
is near by (in Sacramento, actually), for whatever that may be worth.
--John

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:40:15 -0600 (CST)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: Marsden on probation

Reported by the AP...

Univ. of Utah women's head coach Greg Marsden was reprimanded and
placed on one year of probation yesterday by Chris Hill, University
Athletic Director, for pulling his squad off the floor during the meet
with BYU. Marsden is required to write letters of apology to Brad
Cattermole (BYU Coach), the BYU team, and his own team.

The AP reports that Marsden had a dispute with meet referee Wendy
Atkinson. Marsden went to judge Marlene Barth and tried to get a
better look at the start value of the floor, and in so doing turned
the scorecard towards him. Atkinson said Marsden should have
approached her instead. After an exchange of words, Atkinson deducted
.50 from the team score. Marsden responded by removing his team from
the floor.

For those who remember, Marsden was reprimanded by the NCAA last year
after a meeting at Nationals for similarly poor behavior.

>From a news release:

Marsden:
"I sincerely regret my lapse in judgment. Obviously, it's an example
of a coach, who in the heat of the moment, lost perspective.
The athletes should always be the primary focus and the coach
should provide a positive example. As is expected of the athletes, the
coach should remain in control of his emotions. I did not."


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 10:17:55 -0600 (CST)
From: ***@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu
Subject: Marsden on probation

Maybe he should have just thrown a chair out onto the floor. I'm glad
the school's athletic director took a strong stand. But what does
probation involve? Is the team going to be punnished or will he alone
not be allowed to be on the floor for the upcoming year? And has CBS
bought the rights to the tv-movie yet...

david

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 12:21:41 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Marsden on probation

To All:
I feel that a 1-year probation placed on Marsden is way too harsh, if not
downright wrong.
The NCAA too often tries to protect referees and judges, attempting to
coddle them. That's a policy with which I disagree. When gymnastics judges
take the job, they agree to a certain amount of tension.
As you know, the tension between Marsden and this meet referee started a
few months prior at the UF-Utah meet. I have this meet on tape, and the
scoring, in my opinion, was questionable to the max. For example, Florida was
a awarded a 9.1 or 9.2 for a bars routine with no falls -- a bars routine
that had no discernable major faults and scored 9.6-9.8 the weeks prior. Both
Marsden AND Avener said they had problems with the scores.
In fact, Avener later said she was so disgusted with the scores that she
told her team to just forget about the scores and just do their routines.
When the meet was over, Florida had scored its lowest score of the year and
one of the lowest in the past few years.
When the meet was over, Marsden complained, and I feel he has the right to
do that. At the Utah-BYU meet, turning a starting-value scorecard is no big
deal. All the time, coaches approach the judges' table, whether it's to
chit-chat or to tell the little kids to raise the scores, etc.
Yes, maybe pulling his team off the floor wasn't exactly a sportsman-like
thing to do, but sometimes you have to make a point, a point that you
disagree with the handling of a situation.
Placing Marsden on probation for an entire year for what boils down to a
minor infraction and a coaching decision seems very, very wrong.
What's next? Penalizing a team because the crowd boos?
---Ron in Fla.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 22:06:40 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: PAC-10 Championships

Just to let everyone know, ESPN will be airing the PAC-10 Championships one
week from Thursday (April 7) at 1pm EST. Set your VCRs!

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 94 11:51:50 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: PLEASE READ IMPORTANT

on tuesday nite michele campi was practicing and slipped off bars doing a
slip grip which is part of the compulsory bar routine.....she broke 3
vertibrae and was in surgury on saturday.....this is why she did not
compete........i don't know the outcome of the surgery.........the gymnastic
community is very sad and will suffer a great loss.....she is in mercy
hospital in carmicheal california.......they were trying to reconstruct the
broken vert. by using some bone from her hip ....also a wire was going to be
inserted to try and prevent and further damage to the spinal cord........Lynn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 18:39:29 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: PRK PH "guy"

His name is Pae Gil Saue and believe it or not even his PH doesn't come out
of a 10.0 with the new code. At Brum he was flashed a start value of 9.9. I
was sitting next to the British men's team and one guy almost passed out in
disbelief. I though we were gonna' have to restrain him. I also had the
pleasure (?) of sitting next to Pae's uncle (or cousin or something I never
quite made that out) in Birmingham and if he's any indication this guy is
HUGE in North Korean sport. He almost wet his pant with delight when I said
I'd send him some pictures and he gave me 6 or 7 addresses, fax numbers,
etc. so that we wouldn't miss connections. Geez and I thought I was nutso
for Bilozerchev (okay so I took 4 rolls of him C
OACHING in Birmningham - I just can't help myself)

You also mentioned Scherbo's medal stand performance in '92 at the Olympics
where he let Pae get on first. It was nice but it might have had more to do
with the fact that in Paris where he (Scherbo), Li Jing, & Pae made up a
three way tie for gold Jing & Vitali blocked Pae so completely he had to
shove them aside to get his medal and since he's shorter then both of them
you couldn't even see him standing there (the presenter had to remind Vitali
& Li to step aside and let Pae claim his medal). It's a bit unlike Vitali to
admit that he wasn't the best. He's fantastic but his ego is just as big as
his gymnastics (don't get me wrong he is gracious to those
he ties with - I just never heard of him suggesting that he should have been
anywhere lower in the ranks then he's been). Of course, the way Scherbo brags
in his broken English ("I'm a god, a liv
e god" or my personal fav "Childern love me x they're like little pieces of
beefx or porkx
you know") it's almost an endearing quality (and you don't know the meaning
of "cute" until you've seen him with a baseball hat on backwards or threaten
death on members of the mediax but I'm rambling.)

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 18:39:52 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Protests

x Is training in how to take the podium part of training in
general for how to behave at a competition? And is this part
of standard training for high-level gymnasts?

Well, if it isn't for some it really should be. The Soviets were taught not
to be too smug when winning as it was unsortsmanlike to the other
non-winning athletes. This was often mistaken as "coldness" or "uncaring" in
the West but was just good manners (maybe we just can't even recognize them
anymore). The antics of the Soviet men's team in Barcelona "letting their
hair down" so to speak would have drawn them harsh criticism from their
coaches in the past and in turn won them a lot of favor here in the US (I
too thought it was nice to see). We are one of few cultures who encourage
the public display of emotion; most others preach "reserve" to one extent or
another. But even then there are always exceptions to the rule. Olga won our
hearts in '76 by crying (a very "un-Soviet" like thing to do) and no-one
(god, man, or country) could ever keep the emotions of someone like Scherbo
in check (someone mentioned that it was unusual for him to speak ou
t - trust me you just haven't been listening) & he's by far the most popular
ever Soviet male in the US.

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 16:50:49 PST
From: ***@cisco.com
Subject: Protests
Is training in how to take the podium part of training in
general for how to behave at a competition? And is this part
of standard training for high-level gymnasts?

Well, normally "be a good sport" is sufficient. Through most of early
competition, 1st,2nd,3rd are pretty clear, and there is some space in there.

Nothing will quite prepare you to keep your cool when you miss 1st place by
a margin smaller than the smallest deduction. On TV. At the world
Championships. With $$$ of endorsement contracts and professional contracts
on the line...

Chops

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 10:03:15 PST
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: Re: Protests

>Is training in how to take the podium part of training in
>general for how to behave at a competition? And is this part
>of standard training for high-level gymnasts?

There are rules for correct behavior at meets, but not a formal program to
train gymnasts how to behave on the medal stand or in front of the mike.

The watchword has to be sportsmanship, and it is incumbent on every club and
coach to insure that children get a healthy dose of it on their way up the
ladder, starting NOT at USGF Level 5 (earliest competitive level) but at
Level 1 (beginning gymnast.)

As far as our competitors are concerned, we do not abide unsportsmanlike
behavior. Any temper tantrums or refusal to shake hands with a winning
gymnast, and they're out. I am sure I will get a lot of mail from people who
find that unfair, but unless you teach sportsmanship as firmly as you teach
form, you wind up with prima-donnas. Trust me, the sport could do without it!

David

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 13:13:09 CST
From: ***@amoco.com
Subject: Re: Protests

>
>As far as our competitors are concerned, we do not abide unsportsmanlike
>behavior. Any temper tantrums or refusal to shake hands with a winning
>gymnast, and they're out. I am sure I will get a lot of mail from people who
>find that unfair, but unless you teach sportsmanship as firmly as you teach
>form, you wind up with prima-donnas. Trust me, the sport could do without it!
>
>David

I can't be quiet any longer .... we've experienced a situation where the young
gymnasts are exhibiting good sportsmanship, but their coaching staff is not.
And as time goes, the gymnasts will begin to emulate what they see, not what
they hear. In September we moved our daughter to another gym in our area where
she could receive more intense training. We based the move on a couple of
reasons: (1) our old gym was not interested in traching her advanced skills
and (2) our daughter wanted to be in a more intense serious environment.
We immediately became the enemy, especially our daughter. She has been the
target of snide remarks and shunning looks from her old gym's coaching staff.
Fortunately, her peers from the old gym & their parents are still friendly to
her, but who knows how long this will last. For what it is worth, our daughter
is finishing out her level 5 season as undefeated in Oklahoma and Arkansas.
Not bad for an 8 year old deaf gymnast.

Kim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 15:58:54 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: RE:Protests

I agree witb what Clive said:

>Well Bonaly must have thought she should have won but
>she is alone in her opinion.

but I think he misconstrued some of my other comments:

Me:
>>What about not competing as a form of protest,
>>like T&D and Usova & Zhulin? Certainly anyone has
>>the prerogative not to compete, but what about doing so
>>for this particular reason and being public about the reason?

Clive:
>Your right not competing is a form of protest and everyone
knows why they aren't competing but if your going to protest
>then its a darn sight more respectable and certainly
less offensive to make a protest this way than
>it is to do it Bonalys way.

>Putting it bluntly Bonaly uneccesarily offended
alot of people by making a stand which really hasn't achieved
>anything she has not endeared herself to the
public opinion. I doubt whether anyone felt offended
>when T&D announced they weren't competing.

I didn't mean to be comparing Bonaly and T&D, who I think are irreproachable.
In asking "what about protesting by not competing" I didn't mean
"what-about-*this*-isn't-it-just-as-bad" but very simply and innocently,
Bonaly and other ways of protesting aside, "what do you think of protesting
in this particular way?"

As to how much T&D have criticized the judging, all I've seen is them do is
say that they believe the moves that were supposedly illegal were not, and I
saw a quote that they weren't going to Worlds because "the judging has
already been done."

[Clive:
>I
haven't seem them, in any interview since the
>olympics actually complain about the decision
they have implied and suggested that they felt
>that 'the audience were our judges' implying they didn't
think much of the judges marks but they havent come out
>and bluntly and unnecessarily made a point about
what they felt about the judges.]

-- Gimnasta



Clive

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 14:55:32 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Subject: Region VII Championships in Allentown

Hi!

In April, I planned on going to the Region VII competition
in Allentown. Does anyone happen to know exactly where in
Allentown that is? The name of the Gym, contact people or
even how to get in to watch the competion, etc....?

Also, does anyone know what areas/people are in "Region VII"?

Thanks,

Regina

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 15:46:25 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@dorsai.dorsai.org
Subject: Region VII Championships in Allentown

> In April, I planned on going to the Region VII competition
> in Allentown. Does anyone happen to know exactly where in
> Allentown that is? The name of the Gym, contact people or
> even how to get in to watch the competion, etc....?
>
> Also, does anyone know what areas/people are in "Region VII"?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Regina

The Region 7 Boys Championships will be held at the Parkette National
Training Center: 401 Martin Luther King Jr. Drive, Allentown, PA 18102,
telephone 215-433-0011
contact : Janice Cooper
host hotel: Allentown Hilton (610?) 433-2221 (610 in the info sheet)
$48.00 per night - ask for the Parkette Rate for the Region 7 champs

Just pay the gate and enjoy!



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 12:02:10 -0600 (CST)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: REPOST: Campi interview

Hey friends,

In light of the sad news concerning Michelle Campi, I dug up the
interview that we had with her in August of 1993, thinking people
might be interested in reading it again (or for the first time, if you
just joined Gymn). This interview was done at the US Classic in
Austin, TX, where she eventually took 2nd AA to Dominique Dawes.

Get well wishes for Campi may be sent to:

USA Gymnastics
Attn: Michelle Campi
Pan American Plaza
201 S. Capitol Ave, #300
Indianapolis, IN 46225

---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 12:11:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject: Michelle Campi interview

After workout on Saturday morning, I got a chance to interview
Michelle Campi at the end of her stretching out. The normal "Hi, nice
to meet you" pleasantries took place and then we got to the interview.

GYMN: Tell me a little about being the alternate to the Olympic team.

Michelle Campi: She did "everything except the actual competition,
vault, and optional floor," so she wasn't really too left out. A lot
of people think the alternate is only along for the ride, but that's
not true. It was definitely "disappointing not to compete, because it
*is* the Olympics" but it was not too bad and was nevertheless a
"great experience." She kept in mind that the reason she wasn't in
the top six was because she had a hip injury, and she tried to keep
that in mind during the whole trip so that she wouldn't be too
disappointed.

GYMN: You recently went to Puerto Rico, and did very well...?

MC: She took first in the all-around, floor, and balance beam, and
third in the vault. She said that this competition was very "special"
because she has lots of relatives in Puerto Rico. Her mother is from
there and is the only one in the family who lives out of the
Caribbean.

GYMN: Did you get to spend much time with your family?

MC: They had lunch a few times, but not anything more than that
because she was always working out or sleeping or eating. However her
grandmother bought about 60 tickets <she shakes her head and puts one
hand to forehead> and gave them away to friends and family.

GYMN: Well, that seems pretty nice, but it's a little embarassing
maybe ... <laughing>

MC: "Yeah <laughing too>"

GYMN: What are your skills on the different events?

MC: VT - front hand pike with a half twist out
UB - Tkatchev, full-in ("I dunno, I do the same stuff all the
other girls do...")
BB - standing tucked full; ff, layout with 1/2 turn; ff, layout,
layout; double back off
FX - whip through to full-in; layout/pike with legs split on
layout (she had a little difficulty explaining this, so her mother
explained this to me); and a triple full.

GYMN: Seems like a lot of girls are turning to triple fulls now...

MC: Agrees that it's becoming more popular

GYMN: What kind of stuff are you training?

MC: <eyes widen, indicating she's working on many things> a lot of
different things, really, too much to get into right now. We'll see
how it works.

GYMN: So why are you here? Is this a tune-up for Nationals?

MC: Yes, but she said it was really more than just a tune-up meet for
her. She needed to test things out, etc.

GYMN: What are your goals for Nationals?

MC: "I'd like to hit eight for eight... the rest will take care of
itself."

GYMN: What about the new compulsories? Worries? What do you think are
the key moves in each routine?

MC: <seemed uncertain> "There are lots of important moves in each
one..." There's no real one thing to look for. Said that the Garrison
roll is not really a usual move and so it was a little hard for her on
the beam. The cartwheel would probably get some people. She doesn't
like the construction of the bars routine too much; her coach "had a
really good idea to just mount with the hecht... the glide kip hurts
the rhythm of the routine..."

GYMN: Seems like that hecht catches a lot of the girls...

MC: Agrees that the hecht is pretty hard for the small girls, but
shrugged as if it wasn't really a big deal for her. Continuing, she
thinks that the bars routine is pretty hard for a compulsory. Floor,
she really didn't like it too much at first and wanted the dance back
from the old one, but now that she had been practicing the new one a
lot, she's beginning to like it more. It definitely favors the gymnast
who can dance well.

Campi also mentioned that she was a little uncertain about the key
parts of the routines because she hadn't ever seen anyone else do
them.

GYMN: So is that part of why you're here?

MC: Agreed that she wanted to see how others are doing the
compulsories, and learn a bit from that.

------------

I should mention that Campi has a lot of interview poise. She's a
really nice girl to talk to.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 19:11:48 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: SEC Women's Championships

Just one day before the Southeastern Conference championships, coaches were
calling the SEC the "dynasty" league because it sends 4-5 teams to the
national championships each year. But when the SEC's had finished, after
Georgia won by nearly two points, the Bulldogs proclaimed themselves the
dynasty team of the nation's dynasty conference.
"We're the team to beat, and we're unbeatable," Georgia Head Coach Suzanne
Yoculan said.
Georgia scored a 49.025 on beam, the team's first event, and never looked
back as the Bulldogs went on to score a 196.70 (counting a fall on bars),
beating second-place Alabama. The Tid
e had three falls on beam - their last event - to score a 195.175. The battle
between LSU and Florida for third place was so close that incorrect scores
were released three times, with the Tigers and the Gators flip-flopping as
the third-place team while scorekeepers recounted. When the dust settled, LSU
took third with a 194.35, followed closely by UF's 194.125. Auburn, the
meet's host, took fifth with a 192.70 and Kentucky finished sixth with a
189.75.
The SEC sported a Polynesian theme, with a 1 1/2-story-high cutout of a
volcano that spewed smoke, and perhaps it was fitting, because like the
exploding volcano, there was an explosion of talent. At one point in the
meet, Georgia's Hope Spivey-Sheely (the nation's most-prolific scorer of 10s)
was on beam the same time that Alabama's Kim Kelly (an Olympic team
alternate) was on floor and Kentucky's Jenny Hansen (last year's national
all-around champion) was on bars.
The SEC all-around title went to 5-foot-8 Leah Brown of Georgia, who scored
a 39.50. Following her was Hansen, who scored a 10 on vault and floor en
route to a 39.40. A 9.5 on bars cost her the all-around title. In third place
was Georgia's Agina Simpkins, who scored a 39.375 and carried her Teddy bear,
named "T-T," with her throughout the tournament.
In the individual categories, there were fresh faces. LSU's Jennifer Wood,
whose bar mount is a jump over the low bar to an immediate Gienger, won that
event with a 9.925. Four people tied for second at 9.9. On beam, Auburn's
Becky Erwin threw a rock-solid performance to score a 9.925. She nailed a
mount that was a punch-front on to an immediate stag leap, then followed that
up with a stuck side-aerial. Hansen took second on beam with a 9.9, and third
went to Brown and Spivey-Sheely (each at 9.875).
Hansen won vault with a 10, followed by Kelly's 9.975 and Spivey-Sheely's
9.95. On floor, Hansen and Spivey-Sheely each scored 10s, followed by Kelly
and Georgia's Leslie Angeles, who each scored a 9.95.
Spivey-Sheely, who was named Freshman of the Year four years ago, was in
near tears when coaches voted her Gymnast of the Year. "It has been a
magnificent four years," she said. Alabama's Meredith Willard was named
Freshman of the Year, and the SEC Coach of the Year was a tie, going to both
LSU's D-D Pollock and UF's Judi Avener.

--- Ron in Fla.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 11:45:59 PST
From: ***@geoworks.com
Subject: Tkatchev front

> It's officially called a "Xiao Ruizhi", and what the gymnast does is start
> just like a Tkatchev, but let go really early, so the momentum doesn't carry
> him/her over the bar, and then double over forward, reaching between his/her
> legs to catch the bar again (continuing into a front giant). So it's kind of
> like starting out to do a Tk. and then "changing your mind." Sorry, I can't
> do diagrams.

...but, as George was so nice to volunteer, I can:

| / o o ____
| / ______ o | | o \ \ \
| | 0 \ 0 0 / \--0--o 0 \__\0
0 0 / 0 | | 0 \
| | o o--0--- \__ | / ___/ o o
o o \ | /
o
0 __ /| ____ |
/\ 0 / 0 | \ o 0
/ / o 0--o / |
/ o o _____0 |


Well, this is as close as I can come with ascii for now. It does
get a bit confusing with all of the piking and arching of the body, but
that is what a tap is all about.

(Andy, you may want to put this in the FAQ for "tap")

A tap is how you get your energy and direction for giants and
release moves and dismounts. On a giant the tap is so subtle that most
people don't notice it. The tap before a Hecht, Tkatchev (reverse hecht),
Kovacs and most dismounts are quite noticeable.

Coming over the top on the giant before the move you will see a
hollow body position even perhaps a large pike. This will become an arch
as the gymnast nears the bottom of the swing. This pike letting out to an
arch bends the bar in the direction of the gymnast. Once through the
bottom the gymnast kicks into a pike again, gaining momentum from the
arch->pike movement and because the bar is now rebounding from the flex it
got when the initial pike was let out (at the beginning of the tap). On a
dismount this kick and the spring of the bar send the gymnast up away from
the bar.

When and how a gymnast taps depends on where they want to go. A
gymnast's body will be sent in a direction 180 degrees from where they
initially start their tap (let their hollow become an arch). If a gymnast
is swinging giants clockwise, they will start their tap at around 5 o'clock
for a dismount (so they are sent in a direction of 11 o'clock). For a
Tkatchev they will tap late (7 o'clock) so their tap will send them over
the bar (in a direction about 1 o'clock). A Kovacs has the same tap
because it needs to go over the bar, but the gymnast continues the backward
rotation gained from the kick of the tap, instead of reversing it by
arching and throwing the bar like they would for a Tkatchev.

For the "Xiao Ruizhi" I would guess you would want to tap earlier
than a Tkatchev (maybe just before 6:00) and let go early (like gymnasta
said :) so as to stay on one side of the bar.

Dave Litwin

P.S. Hey Rachele, no tabs in my ascii this time, all spaces... :)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 94 18:23:17 PST
From: ***@cisco.com
Subject: Tkatchev front

For the "Xiao Ruizhi" I would guess you would want to tap earlier than
a Tkatchev (maybe just before 6:00) and let go early (like gymnasta
said :) so as to stay on one side of the bar.

Isn't this more or less an old unevens trick? I could swear I've seen
girls and even women do "beat, front summi, catch the high bar", or
perhaps "cast, front summi, catch the bar" a long time ago. The summi
was generally done (very) straddled, and in general, this did end them
in pretty much a dead hang, the next trick being something like a drop
to the low bar to get things moving again.

Chops

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 08:55:18 -0600 (CST)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: Tkatchev front

| For the "Xiao Ruizhi" I would guess you would want to tap earlier than
| a Tkatchev (maybe just before 6:00) and let go early (like gymnasta
| said :) so as to stay on one side of the bar.
|
| Isn't this more or less an old unevens trick? I could swear I've seen
| girls and even women do "beat, front summi, catch the high bar", or
| perhaps "cast, front summi, catch the bar" a long time ago. The summi

Chops,

You're definitely talking about a different trick. The type you're
thinking of, the direction of the swing is the same as the direction
of the flip (swing in forward motion, flip forward). The Xiao Ruizhi
involves a backward type of swing, and upon release the gymnast
counters into a forward flip. Also, the two you mentioned are usually
caught in overgrip, whereas the Xiao Ruizhi is caught in undergrip...

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Mar 1994 22:26:03 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@db.erau.edu
Subject: URGENT-- EVERYONE READ NOW!!!!

Everybody,
Does any body know what *P might refer to I recived a post from
Mara and she was talking about posts to *P this is important, so if you
know can you please respond NOW.

P.S. if you have gymnasta's adress could you please send it now.


Jimmy
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Mar 1994 09:46:20 -0500
From: ***@world.std.com
Subject: URGENT-- EVERYONE READ NOW!!!!

< Does any body know what *P might refer to I recived a post from
<Mara and she was talking about posts to *P this is important, so if you
<know can you please respond NOW.

The abbreviation P* (sometimes *P) is used to indicate the Prodigy
service.

...eliz

------------------------------

End of gymn Digest
******************************