gymn Digest Wed, 30 Mar 94 Volume 2 : Issue 94

Today's Topics:
Age vs. difficulty (4 msgs)
American Classic
Gymnastics Videos
Passover seder
Peachtree Classic (5 msgs)
radio
Results (hot off the press) (3 msgs)
Soni M(?)
Soni M?
Soni Meduna
The popularity of gymnastics (3 msgs)
Tkatchev front (2 msgs)
World Champs. Trials (Am Cup)

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 18:12:36 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Age vs. difficulty

During the Peachtree Classic on ESPN, they showed a 10-year old girl doing a
triple twist on floor. Also, in 1990, (then) 9 year-old Bridget Knaeble did
an exhibition including a full-in on floor and double back off bars.

Is this too much difficulty for such young girls? Should they concentrate
more on basics and dance at that young an age? Or should they go for the big
tricks as soon as possible?

What's your opinion?

Mara

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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 16:10:30 PST
From: ***@geoworks.com
Subject: Age vs. difficulty

***@aol.com writes:
> Is this too much difficulty for such young girls? Should they concentrate
> more on basics and dance at that young an age?

If these girls can do triple twists and full-in's, their basics
would have to be good. Maybe their dance isn't polished, but if they have
had enough gymnastics experience to get these hard moves, I'm sure they've
had time to learn dance.

> Or should they go for the big tricks as soon as possible?

The only reason to hold off teaching someone a move that I can
think of is if they aren't ready techically. If their lack of basics
interferes with their ability to safely and correctly do the harder move.
I don't think the age of the athelete should really matter, unless it
requires above average strength (like advanced strength moves like a cross
or maltese), as a young athelete's body is still growing and I've heard
this kind of bodily stress can alter development.

I come from a gym where our coach was conservative in how we
progressed. You do need a good foundation before trying harder moves, but
some very young gymnasts are able to achieve this foundation quite quickly.

Dave

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 09:57:47 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Age vs. difficulty

Dave writes:
>if they have
had enough gymnastics experience to get these hard moves, I'm sure >they've
had time to learn dance

You *must* be joking. Only a handful of gymnasts ever learn to dance
technically properly in their entire careers. Not even 9-year-old ballet
dancers can do it yet, and they don't spend time on other events.

But on the subject whether they should be allowed to do high difficulty:
There's a difference between learning it and being permitted to compete it.
I see no problem with a very young girl who is ready working hard tricks.
But, I think the organization has to place a limit on the difficulty such
young girls may compete in order that less conscientious/knowledgeable
coaches won't let pressure to produce a high-difficulty set make them push or
permit their gymnasts to throw difficulty they're not ready to do. Also, if
a girl doesn't have to compete a trick, even if she's ready to do it, she
doesn't have to work it on a competition surface, she can just keep doing it
in the pit, and so not subject her growing bones to hard landings and risk of
injury.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that the lower levels have limits on difficulty
which, if exceeded, result in a penalty. Level doesn't necessarily
correspond to age (that's the premise of this discussion, I guess), but going
through the levels at least serves as an outside check that a girl is in fact
ready before being allowed to move up and do more difficulty.

-- Gimnasta

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 16:21:15 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Age vs. difficulty

Another thought on this question. Coach's often teach young kids tricks
faster because the younger you are the less your fearx

Susan

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 15:12:06 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: American Classic

I just read the results for the American Classic (compulsory exercises).

Does anyone know why Michelle Campi is not competing? She has upgraded
her difficulty and looks great. Since she is setting her goal to be in
the Olympics in '96, I am curious as to why she wouldn't be at this
competition. I really wanted to she her routines at Worlds.

Thanks for any info. Tasha

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Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 23:54:44 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gymnastics Videos

I am desperately looking for gymnastics videos of ANY men's Europeans (esp.
'90 & '92), the '93 Tour (Miller, Scherbo, Boguinskyaia, Bruce - it was
called "The Montgomery Wards" something or other) which I heard was on TNT
with no previous advertising, home video of the World Open in '93 and/or the
Reeses World Pro Cup in '94. If anyone can help me with these things or any
other interesting stuff, I'd be more than happy to trade (I have over 300
meets on tape from '76 on) or pay you for them, please e-mail me at
stobchatay@aol.com. Thanks alot in advance!

Susan

PS-I also need the Hilton Invite that was ESPN
tonight (Thursday March 24th) because even though I knew about it ahead of
time - I even posted about it I forgot to set up the VCR. Oops.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Mar 94 18:23:20 EST
From: ***@ai.mit.ed
Subject: Passover seder

Oops, by tonight I meant thursday night. Which is tonight but you
moight only read this message tomorrow.

Gideon

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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 18:12:30 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Peachtree Classic

A few assorted thoughts on the Peachtree Classic (Hilton Inv.) aired on ESPN
last night:

-It's great to see Jennie Thompson putting so much effort into upgrading her
difficulty. At 93 Oly Fest, she was doing a piked Yurchecko, now she's
doing the 1/2-front layout Yurchenko. Although I didn't see her 9
3 routines on the other events, I believe she's also upgraded her difficulty
quite a bit there.

-Shannon Miller still has the same floor set as in 92 and 93. I liked it
(but didn't love it) o
riginally, but its way past time for a new set. This one is tired.

-Lookalike alert! Jenni Beatherd looks and works just like Wendy Bruce (and
is also from Brown's), same for Tanya Maiers to Hilary
Grivich. The Canadian girl, Marilou Cousineau, is actress Ally Sheedy's
younger twin!


-re Kathy Johnson's piece on the Georgia Dome (the 96 Gym venue). I don't
know whether they plan to reconfigure the setup for the gymn in 96, but it
seems way too big. Not that it isn't great to see that they think they can
fill it, but I don't think anyone above the front of the first deck will be
able to see anything.


-Soni Meduna will emerge as a top US contender for Atlanta in 96. Excellent
bars dismoun
t!

-If the Russian girls are taking the trouble to compete at the Peachtree
Classic, ESPN could at least show more than one of them. Does anyone know if
Maria Frolova is any relation to Tatiana or Na
talia?

-What did everyone think of the Shannon fashion show? Would a competitor be
allowed to c
hange leos for each event at a Nationals, etc.?

-If the majority of competitors were elites (accord
ing to commentary) why were they using level 10 rules?

-I was nice to see the judges being relatively impartial i.e. the Dynamo
girls didn't pull scores just because the were from Dynamo. If you take out
Shannon's scores, Dynamo and Brown's would have been in close competition.

-Why does ESPN always bundle a gymnastics program with a cheerleading
program? Also, one would think that Todd Zeile makes enough money that
Julianne McNamara doesn't have to be reduced to commentating on high school
cheerleading...

I'll shut up now

Mara

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 00:26:36 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@db.erau.edu
Subject: Peachtree Classic

See coments at end

Jimmy
Jaye

On Fri, 25 Mar 1994 ***@aol.com wrote:

> A few assorted thoughts on the Peachtree Classic (Hilton Inv.) aired on ESPN
> last night:
>
> -It's great to see Jennie Thompson putting so much effort into upgrading her
> difficulty. At 93 Oly Fest, she was doing a piked Yurchecko, now she's
> doing the 1/2-front layout Yurchenko. Although I didn't see her 9
> 3 routines on the other events, I believe she's also upgraded her difficulty
> quite a bit there.
>
She is the one to watch for the 96 games

> -Shannon Miller still has the same floor set as in 92 and 93. I liked it
> (but didn't love it) o
> riginally, but its way past time for a new set. This one is tired.

Practice makes perfect
>
> -Soni Meduna will emerge as a top US contender for Atlanta in 96. Excellent
> bars dismoun
> t!
She has problems staying focused in practice and is very inconcent(sp)
>
>
> -What did everyone think of the Shannon fashion show? Would a competitor be
> allowed to change leos for each event at a Nationals, etc.?
Did not see it, but probaly for contract deals?
>
>
> -Why does ESPN always bundle a gymnastics program with a cheerleading
> program? Also, one would think that Todd Zeile makes enough money that
> Julianne McNamara doesn't have to be reduced to commentating on high school
> cheerleading...
Because the audiences are mostly the same people. I for one like both
sports. Cheerleading got me intersted in gymnastics. (I'm a cheerleader
not a gymnast)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 09:50:34 PST
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: Peachtree Classic

>> -What did everyone think of the Shannon fashion show? Would a competitor
be
>> allowed to change leos for each event at a Nationals, etc.?
>Did not see it, but probaly for contract deals?

Actually, those were leos from Shannon's very own line of leotards, gymwear,
and related gifts. Email me your address and I will send you a catalog. :)

David

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 12:48:57 -0600 (CST)
From: *@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: Peachtree Classic

Mara said:
| -If the majority of competitors were elites (accord
| ing to commentary) why were they using level 10 rules?

This would open up the competition to more athletes. They probably
didn't have enough competitors for a L10 division *and* an elite
division, and they can't very well make the 10 girls do elite rules.

Rachele

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 16:56:48 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Peachtree Classic

> -Why does ESPN always bundle a gymnastics program with a cheerleading
> program? Also, one would think that Todd Zeile makes enough money that
> Julianne McNamara doesn't have to be reduced to commentating on high school
> cheerleading...
Because the audiences are mostly the same people. I for one like both
sports. Cheerleading got me intersted in gymnastics. (I'm a cheerleader
not a gymnast)


Re my comment on Julianne. It's not that I dislike cheerleading (I don't),
but could you imagine Carl Lewis doing commentary for a high school wresting
competition?

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 19:52:01 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: radio

Does anyone know which nations are more likely to broadcast meet results from
their country on shortwave? I saw a listing last week for the Russian
Championships. What frequency did that come from?

Mara

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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 22:41:26 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@db.erau.edu
Subject: Results (hot off the press)

Here are the results form the 1994 world championship trials/ Ammerican
Classic (Senior International Compulsories)

Rank Name Total Weighted Score
1 Dominique Dawes 46.260
2 Kellee Davis 44.940
3 Amanda Borden 44.460
4 Marianna Webester 44.370
5 Soni Meduna 44.310
6 Larissa Fontaine 44.010
7 Kristin McDermott 43.590
8 Jennie Thompson 43.500
9 Samanatha Muhleman 43.440
10 Sarah Cain 43.410
11 Amy Chow 43.170
12 Martha Grubbs 43.110
13 Tanya Maiers 43.080
14 Ashley Kever 43.020
15 Summer Reid 42.900
16 Mohini Bhardwaj 42.810
17 Jaycie Phelps 42.780
18 Maryann Esposito 42.660
19 Katie Fitzpatrick 42.600
19 Karin Lichey
19 Heidi Hornbeek
22 Rachell Rochelli 42.450
23 Lanna Apisukh 41.970
24 Cara Lepper 41.820
25 Elizabeth Reid 41.790
26 Sarah Balogach 41.730
27 Denise Jones 41.700
28 Jenni Beathard 41.640
29 Kara Fry 41.520
30 Kristi Lichey 41.430
31 Jamie Martini 41.400
32 Eileen Diaz 41.370
33 Lisa Gianni 40.770
34 Meagan Wright 40.560
35 Missy Leopoldus 40.320
36 Kim Arnold 39.240
37 Tracey Kohl 38.970
38 Abby Burns 38.550


Jimmy
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 16:56:35 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Results (hot off the press)

from Jimmy's results:

> (Senior International Compulsories)

Rank Name Total Weighted Score
1 Dominique Dawes 46.260
2 Kellee Davis 44.940
3 Amanda Borden 44.460
4 Marianna Webester 44.370
5 Soni Meduna 44.310
6 Larissa Fontaine 44.010

Looking at the qualification rules, the top 2 in optionals will go to Worlds
as #2 and #3 for the US, but only if they are in the top 6 in compulsories.
That seems to narrow the field (at least for those two spots) to these six...

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 16:34:20 -0600 (CST)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: Results (hot off the press)

Mara:

| Looking at the qualification rules, the top 2 in optionals will go to Worlds
| as #2 and #3 for the US, but only if they are in the top 6 in compulsories.
| That seems to narrow the field (at least for those two spots) to these six...

That was a good point that I had overlooked.

I wonder who will get the event specialist spot...

The subject of my last msg should have parenthetically stated "Am
Classic", not "Am Cup", for those who care...

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 01:19:25 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@db.erau.edu
Subject: Soni M(?)

Sarah,
Here is the info on your gymnast. This was taken form her USAG bio
Name: Soni Meduna
Hometown: Colon, Nebraska
Residence: Oklahoma City, OK
Coached by Steve and Peggy at Dymno
Age: 14
DOB/Place: 19 June 79 / Omaha, Neb
Height: 4'11"
Weight: 84lbs.
Grad: 98
School: Summit Middle
one year on junior team (93-94)
11 years in gymnastics
Favorite event: Bars
Hobbies: Word Finds, Shopping, crafts

Internation Comp
1993 Jr. Pacific Alliance, Canberra, Australia, 2nd in team, 3rd-UB

National Comp
1993 National Championships, Salt Lake City, 3rd-AA
1993 U.S. Classic, Austin, TX, 2nd-AA (junior)

Any other questions, I work with Dymno's publicist so I will answer most
questions on their team

Hope this helps
Jimmy
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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 1994 14:43:23 -0800 (PST)
From: ***@calvin.linfield.edu
Subject: Soni M?

I am wondering if anybody can tell me how old a certain gymnast is and
perhaps a little bit about her background (i.e. where she's from,
etc..). Her first name is Soni, but I don't know her last name. I think
it starts with an "M." I saw her last night on T.V. at the Hilton
Invitational; she placed second. She trains with Steve Nuno. Can
anybody respond to this?
Thanks in advance--

Sarah

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Date: Fri, 25 Mar 94 21:51:58 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Soni Meduna

Soni has trained with Steve Nunno her entire gym life (ie. she's"homgrown")
and she recently placed 3rd in the '93 Jr. Nationals. I do belive that she is
now 13 years old. She has little international expirience and has been in
few national level meets so I'm sorry but I can't tell you much. I'm sure
someone else can be of much more help to you.

Susans

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 01:39:08 +0800
From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: The popularity of gymnastics

Hey, Gymn fans,

I was sitting around tonight watching a tape of the '92 Olympics (Yang Bo
had some weird floor music - okay, maybe I need a life.) It's amazing how
just 2 short years ago so many of the female gymnasts looked so different.
Shannon Miller and Taitana Lisenko in particular. Okay, I *do* need a
life!

At any rate, I've been reading with interest the comments regarding how
gymnastics is covered by the press and perceived by the public. I agree
with the sentiment that it would be nice to have more coverage. But this
isn't a surprising sentiment seeing what electronic alias we are all on!

On the other hand, while watching my Olympics tape I got the impression
that gymnastics has come a long way in the last 10 years or so. Considering
that so few people really do gymnastics its popularity is pretty
extrordinary. I know that there are a lot of kids out there that engage in
the sport, but on the international level, there are really only a handful
of people that are very good at it. So few players in a sport so difficult
to comprehend. It's amazing they have as many competitions as they do
each year!

I think that the sport has a good blend of casual observers and hard core
fans. Going to a gymnastics event has a nice comfortable atmosphere. Could
you imagine being able to jump down on the field after a 49ers game and
chatting with Joe Montana? (Okay, maybe my analogies are a little out of
date.) But that kind of thing regularly happens at gymnastics meets. We
have college guys that were on the U.S. Olympic team still competing in the
NCAA. You can walk right up and talk to them before and after a meet. You
can even get a press pass for an international meet by just regularly
contributing to a newgroup that has a sincere interest in the sport! ;^)

Yours in gymnastics,

-George

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 2:04:42 PST
From: ***@cisco.com
Subject: The popularity of gymnastics

Considering that so few people really do gymnastics its popularity
is pretty extrordinary. I know that there are a lot of kids out there
that engage in the sport, but on the international level, there are
really only a handful of people that are very good at it.

How do you know? Since the worlds, olympics, etc are strictly limited as
to number attendees from each country, and "sponsored" events like the
McDonalds cup (or whatever) try to attract the well-known names, it's very
hard to tell just how many people there are out there who are "almost" that
good, or who are "very good but flakey", and so on. Without the equivilent
of "league" meets, we may never know.

The closest you can get a piece of the truth it to attend all sorts of
little meets, or men's collegiate meets...

Chops

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 16:56:24 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: The popularity of gymnastics

>just 2 short years ago so many of the female gymnasts looked so different.
Shannon Miller and Taitana Lisenko in particular.

Doesn't it seem that some mature (like Miller and Lisenko), while some look
the same even as they get older (Okino, Zmeskal-baby face)
----
>Going to a gymnastics event has a nice comfortable atmosphere.

My point of view is that I'd like more complete coverage, but I'm glad
gymnastics isn't considered like football in the US. Does anyone remember
what is was like for serious gym fans in 1984? Everyone in the US jumped on
the Mary Lou Retton bandwagon, most of whom (just like ABC announcer Jack
Whittaker) didn't know a vaulting horse from Black Beauty! Meanwhile, real
gymn fans were, for the most part, pushed out.

There's something similar going on right now re figure skating. After the
whole debacle (I don't think I need to get into it), almost all the World
Champions tour tickets were bought up in advance by scalpers and brokers (is
there any difference), charging outrageous prices - in NY $200 a ticket! I
tried to get tickets on the FIRST DAY (tried several sources) and was only
able to get the upper-upper deck, third-to-last row (at $45 each)!

I like gymnastics the way it is, somewhat like an extended family...like I
said, I'd just like a little more actual event coverage.

Mara

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 01:47:47 +0800
From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: Tkatchev front

Watched the final Cal men's home meet the other weekend. Lots of nice
high bar. One move in particular that intrigued me was something one
of the guys described as a Tkatchev front. Looked to me like a Yaeger,
only *beneath* the bar. I kind of see how a reverse hecht might be
thrown under the bar, but I'm really having trouble visualizing this
technique. Can any kind soul out there describe this skill? Maybe
that "Mr. Ascii" guy that used to draw those cool diagrams. Dave? is
that his name? ;^)

-George

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 94 09:58:38 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Tkatchev front

It's officially called a "Xiao Ruizhi", and what the gymnast does is start
just like a Tkatchev, but let go really early, so the momentum doesn't carry
him/her over the bar, and then double over forward, reaching between his/her
legs to catch the bar again (continuing into a front giant). So it's kind of
like starting out to do a Tk. and then "changing your mind." Sorry, I can't
do diagrams. Did this make any sense at all?

-- Gimnasta

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 1994 14:46:41 -0600 (CST)
From: ***@owlnet.rice.edu
Subject: World Champs. Trials (Am Cup)

Just a note to remind everyone on Gymn: don't get too excited about
the results posted thus far. They represent only the first round of
scores, from the compulsory session. These scores don't mean a thing
when it comes to qualifying for the Worlds team. The girls who make
the Worlds team will be chosen based on their optional scores only...
which will happen today.

Also, the reason that the scores look funny (all between 40 and 50) is
because the compulsories are weighted 60% in the AA total.

Rachele

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End of gymn Digest
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