gymn Digest Thu, 14 Apr 94 Volume 2 : Issue 104

Today's Topics:
Beginer (2 msgs)
Brian Ottenhoff
Dizzy bars
Foreign competitors (4 msgs)
Fwd: Re: Gym Movies...Bad to Worse to Awful
Gym Movies...Bad to Worse to Awful (3 msgs)
Gymn on the silver screen (4 msgs)
help defend gymnastics!
Louisiana gyms
preliminary USA Nat'ls info
Rhythmic (2 msgs)
Vertigo

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 12:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: Beginer

>
>> Also...Courtney doesn't seem to be able to walk through the house
>> anymore....she has to cartwheel or back flip or walk on her hands!! It
>> is obvious that she loves the sport...but its driving me nuts!
>
> Be careful. You and your daughter both will be very unhappy if she
> gets her most serious injury after doing a trick perfectly, and lands
> on the corner of the living room coffee table or whatever. (heh. A
> young Chops went around on crutches for a week or two after smacking a
> similar table. He hadn't done the trick perfectly, though!)

Second that motion!
Flipflops in the house not on a mat can result in serious wrist injuries
especially for children!
I remember doing a cartwheel in the hall of the gym wing.
When coach Hetrick got done with me, I almost wish he'd killed me...
Get a copy of the USGF safety manual and make your kids read it cover to cover.
Quiz them to make sure they know the material.
It will make them less likely to do stupid things showing off.

Tennis courts ? Wow ! Do the whole thing in rebound floor.
What a tumbling run ! (drool...)

-texx

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 19:11:45 -0500 (EST)
From: <***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu>
Subject: Beginer

On the subject of gymnasts flipping and cartwheeling through the house...

For my birthday one year, I got a low beam to use at home. One night I
was really mad at myself for not going for a back handspring on low beam
at the gym. So I went over to my low beam and did some back handsprings.
After I had done a few, I landed on my hand wrong. It really hurt, but I
was too embarrassed to tell my parents what had happened, because I was
worried they'd take away the beam. Plus, I had a meet that weekend.
After dinner, it was hurting so much that I told them I had landed wrong on
a back handspring at the gym. I iced it and went through practice as best
I could for the next few days, staying far away from bars. At the meet, I
tried to do bars, but it hurt so much that I had to scratch from the whole
meet. I went to the doctor and I had sprained the ligaments in my hand.
I had to scratch from bars at the next meet too. Now my beam is only for
stuff I know I can do safely.

Please don't let your daughter make the same mistake I did!

Lisa

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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:02 EDT
From: ***@sph.harvard.edu
Subject: Brian Ottenhoff

Mara or anyone -

While catching up on digests from last week, I saw Brian Ottenhoff's name
mentioned as a NCAA qualifier from Minnesota. Does anyone know more
about him? I *think* we were at the same gym in Colorado about eight
years ago (how time flies!). Just curious ...

Please reply directly to me -

Elizabeth

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 13:01:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: ****@netcom.com
Subject: Dizzy bars

Yesterday, I replied to George about dizzyness on the bars.
Like a total yutz, I replied to him and not the group.
Hey George !
If ya still got it in your recieved folder, would you forward it to the group ?

"... boot to the head...."
-texx

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 10:55:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: Foreign competitors

This is a real hot topic. Almost too hot for me to handle.... (grins)
Before I make up my mind, I ask :

How much fin aid goes to non citizens ?
How many US citizens go without ?
How much fin aid is needed to take care of all the US citizens who have to go
without ?
Does any one have actual numerical data on this ?

I would like to suggest that this topic is ludicrous to even discus withoiut
this numerical data.

(Texx runs and hides before anyone can shoot at him)

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 20:25:31 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Foreign competitors

Texx said
>Before I make up my mind, I ask :

How much fin aid goes to non citizens ?
How many US citizens go without ?
How much fin aid is needed to take care of all the US citizens who have to go

without ?
>Does any one have actual numerical data on this ?

No, I don't (and doubt anyone else has) accurate cumulative data. What I
have heard are individual stories

Ex:

-Some college men's teams have 13 athletes sharing 5 scholarships.

-In 1989, I had the opportunity to watch a walk-on to Minnesota's team turn
in to a top all-arounder. The coaches first announced that she would get a
scholarship the next year, then recanted and said they didn't have the funds
becuase they were using that scholarship to bring a girl over to compete from
Hungary. Ironically enough, the Hungarian girl they brought was not a better
gymnast than the walk-on. Although I had by then graduated, I had heard that
the local girl still had not received a scholarship in 1991, while these same
coaches brought over yet another Hungarian girl on full scholarship.

Mara

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 18:12:11 PDT
From: <***@cisco.com>
Subject: Foreign competitors
How much fin aid goes to non citizens ? How many US citizens go without
? How much fin aid is needed to take care of all the US citizens who
have to go without ? Does any one have actual numerical data on this ?

You mean financial aid in general, or just athletic scholarships?

It should be pointed out that US universities are a major method of
"recruiting" talent of various types from foreign countries. The number
of foreign student who choose to stay in the united states after
graduating is pretty phenomenal, and while there are those in the US who
might object to "stolen jobs", this "brain drain" is a major concern for
many foreign countries.

Chops

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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 09:11:50 BST
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: Foreign competitors

>It should be pointed out that US universities are a major method of
>"recruiting" talent of various types from foreign countries.
The number
>of foreign student who choose to stay in the united states after
>graduating is pretty phenomenal, and while there are those in
the US who
>might object to "stolen jobs", this "brain drain" is a major
concern for
>many foreign countries.

Too right, remember the door swings both ways, what the US gains
the rest of the world loses out on. And dont forget that there isnt
anything to stop US citizens coming over and staying in England and
going to English Universities.


Clive.

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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 10:24:41 PDT
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Gym Movies...Bad to Worse to Awful


---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Re: Gym Movies...Bad to Worse to Awful
Date: 94-04-14 10:24:03 PDT
From: ***

Li Ning is actually doing quite well in films now. He had a bit part in a
Chinese period piece in 1989. Then last summer, he had a starring role in the
Hong Kong mini-series "Heroes of Shaolin." He was a Kung-Fu master who became
embroiled in an effort to save a small town from a corrupt local mandarin.

He just finished his first major feature in Hong Kong, "The Wonder Seven." Li
Ning plays the leader of a super-secret team of seven young cops from
Mainland China who are trying to shut down a money laundering operation run
by the Yakuza from Hong Kong. Some great shots of him doing giants on an
overhead sprinkler pipe to avoid being hit by gunfire, then a dismount into a
crouching postion return fire. Lost of acrobatic fight and gunfight scenes.
Premeired in Hong Kong on March 20, in Cantonese with English Subtitles. In
Chinese video stores in the States this summer.

David

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 22:45:25 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gym Movies...Bad to Worse to Awful

All this talk of gym movies led me to make a list of the gym films I am
aware of with a short description and "review"...

"American Anthem" - circa 1985 with Mitch Gaylord. The story is about a
former high school football (many gymnasts get their start on the grid iron)
star turned gymnast who's family is disturbed & for some reason doesn't want
him to be a gymnast. He practices, as most top flight gymnasts do, in the
woods by the light of his jeep headlights in the pouring rain throwing
imaginary dismounts that Mitch Gaylord is completely incapable of while never
once even approaching his own skill - which quite frankly he never did all
that well - "The Gaylord". Janet Jones, best known for marrying Wayne Gretzky
and removing him from Edmonton to LA so that her "career" could continue
(this is the only thing I've ever seen her in), plays the required love
interest. She's just under thirty and about 5 inches taller than Mitch but
they're always either laying down or he's standing on a step or something in
a very subtle attempt to cover that. All of the "fabulous" gymnasts at this
club were featured on the cover of "Sports Illustrated" (local club gymnasts
usually are) and are fast approaching their 30th birthday. The "plot" (I
hesitate to use such a term) required Mitch Gaylord to take off his shirt a
lot lean against walls, and smoke...all I'm assuming to make him look cool
(didn't help). The only point of the movie that held even a grain of truth
was when they said the '87 World Championships were in Holland. Peggy Liddick
and Kathy Johnson served as consultants.

"Gymkata" - circa 1983 starring Kurt Thomas. Kurt fights of bad guys in SE
Asia which is the only place they could feasibly make a 5'2" hero believable.
He knocks them out with Thomas flairs and Giant swings with conviently placed
apparatus. All in all it's in the same genre as you're average Japanese made
Godzilla film. So very bad and unrealistic it's funny...especially if you've
had a couple.

"Dream To Believe" - circa 1986 starring Keanu Reeves (he's the only one
who's name I remember). It's about a young girl who wants to be on her high
school gym team and works out a lot in an old factory. She rides around on a
moped has sex with Keanu in a shower...etc. etc. The highlight of the film is
the "big meet" where she competes a FX with roughly 37 tumbling passes that
lasts about 5 minutes. Score? Well, 10.0 of course. This one makes "American
Anthem" look like an academy award winner

"Nadia" - circa 1984 starring Marcia Fredricks ('78 World UB Champ) who plays
Nadia and does her bar set instead of the compo '76 one for the first perfect
10.0 but otherwise, as gym movies go, it's okay if a little "Disneyesque" on
the circumstances and people in Nadia's life. The infamous shampoo/bleach
suicide scene is a scream!

"Rad" - circa 1985 starring Bart Conner. Not a gym movie but a BMX biking
filck so obviously they choose Big Bad Bart for the role of the villian (he's
sooo scarey). He wears a lot of black (so you'll know he's the bad guy) and
says things like "bitchin'" and "gnarly" a lot. He's very talented...

"La Championne" - circa 1990 dual French Canadian/Romanian Production which
features a little Romanian girl's rise to the national team after her
favorite coach defects to Canada. Lots of cameos from the genuine Deva bunch
and the world championships takes place in Romania with compeitors who look
suspiciosly like the people from the '89 Romanian Int'l. Anyways for a gym
film it's pretty interesting...or maybe I was just concentrating really hard
because my French sucks. The kids are actually talented and despite the fact
that it was made for about $3 it was cool to see REAL gymnastics in a
gymnastics film (waht a novel concept).

"The Gymnast" - circa 1985 starring Kurt Thomas & Julianne McNamera. Not
really a movie but more a bad after school special about a gymnst who falls
off UB and then thinks she's paralyzed she comes out of it when Kurt asks her
to the school dance (what school are these guys in they're like 30 at this
point?).

Anyone know of any others? I know that Tong Fei was in some movies back in
China and Mitch has appeared in some other stuff that I've seen on "Cinemax
After Dark"...I wonder if there is such a thing as a GOOD gymnastics film.
Perhaps if someone who knew anything about gymnastics and had half an ounce
of good taste would undertake the job of putting the drama of this sport on
film then we'd be more likely to get a watchable product. Yeah right, and
maybe all the judging will be fair and all the coaches honest...

Susan (remember I can't spell or type so go easy on me...)

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 22:20:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Gym Movies...Bad to Worse to Awful

Wasn't Kurt Thomas also in "Footloose"? I know there was a scene in the
barn with some giants and a way too big dismount onto hay.

But the finest gymnastics moment on film has to be when Peter
Sellers,Inspector Cluseau (sp), dismounted from "ze parallel bars" and
fell down that flight of stairs. It was one of the Pink Panter movies,
but I can't remember which.

david

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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 09:39:38 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gym Movies...Bad to Worse to Awful

Susan's post was an absolute *gem*. I have one movie to add -- "The Gymnast"
(c. 1982) starring ?. No one famous. 17-year-old moves away from home to
attend the power gym club, where everyone's really tough (they address each
other by their last names, just like in the Army). They're preparing for
Regionals or something like that to qualify for Nationals (someone had the
insight to realize they couldn't explicitly pass these girls off as
Olympians, though one is led to believe that they will be eventually) and
things are going along more or less well, aside from evil looks and snide age
comments from her rival, and also a weight issue. She's working on her big
trick -- a standing back tuck on beam -- and (I think) overhearing someone's
(the rival, I think) opinion that she couldn't win Regionals without it, she
goes to the gym at night by herself to work on it, against the rules, of
course (though the keys are just hanging there for anyone to take,
naturally). The coach catches her and they have a big blowup and she quits
gymnastics and goes home. She does some soul-searching and talks to her
boyfriend, and, in a magical moment of inspiration, she does the back tuck on
some driftwood which washed up onto the beach. So she goes back to the gym
with Regionals just a couple of weeks away. Then the big meet scenes, event
by event, and, of course, she does her back tuck (slo-mo) and wins. One good
thing is that her rival actually does some halfway decent gymnastics for the
time (nice Stalders), but it's thoroughly annoying that the star is supposed
to be better, because she's not even remotely as good. The funniest thing is
her attempts at a straddle cut catch from low to high; she's so obviously not
even trying and then just throwing herself to the mat to look like it's so
difficult. Someone's floor routine at the meet has a tumbling pass spliced
right in the middle to look longer. They vault from a tramp and never once
use a regular springboard before the meet. But at least the meet looks real
-- no spotlights or colored lights, just a basketball court.

So maybe Gymn should collaborate on a good story.

: )
Gimnasta

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 12:03:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: Gymn on the silver screen


{...}

> Speaking of gymnastics on the silver screen, why do gymnasts
> mostly end up in such awful movies (like the
> often-funny-for-all-the-wrong-reasons "Gymkata")?

This is because the movie makers are cashing in on the celebrity status
of the person. They are not taking into account the true talents of the person.
In the case of Gymkata, (I loved his moves even tho the movie sucked) people
who knew nothing of mens gymnastics were trying to wrap a movie around a male
gymnast. In reality they should have either done a movie about male gymnasts
prepping for the olympics, or if he could really act, they could have cast him
in a role as a lifeguard in a decent drama and forget the gymnastics.


These latter 2 scenarios, if he was a decent actor might have actually brought
him a decent acting career.

The short answer to the question is "Greed & Stupidity"

-texx

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 15:40:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: <***@db.erau.edu>
Subject: Gymn on the silver screen
Well their is to be another film about gymnastics comming out within the
next year or two. The working title is "spitfire." The movie is about
college gymnastics from what I learned fomr the director.

I know about it so far in advance is that the croud sceens were filmed at
the World Trials, so I might be in it

Jaye

P.S. I also filmed about two minuets of raw film for it.

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 20:25:38 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gymn on the silver screen

Jaye said
>Well their is to be another film about gymnastics comming out within the
next year or two. The working title is "spitfire." The movie is about
>college gymnastics from what I learned fomr the director.

One of the gymnasts from Classic who is also on Prodigy says the movie will
star (or at least co-star) Kristie Phillips, as the daughter of a diplomat.
Supposedly, there is some sort of international intrigue involved. Don't
know for sure, though.

Mara

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 20:25:49 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gymn on the silver screen

texx said
>This is because the movie makers are cashing in on the celebrity status
of the person.

Speaking of actors in gymnastics movies, can anyone recall a gymnast trying
for Worlds who had the build and looked the age that Janet Jones did in
American Anthem (don't tell me Bogie, becuase she didn't look 25 and a 36C)?

Mara

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 10:47:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: help defend gymnastics!

I took offense at the line about women bei9ng over the hill at puberty.
Watch the news group for my reply!

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 19:39:52 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject: Louisiana gyms

Are there any programs for young gymnasts (age 9) in or near Lafayette,
Louisiana?
Patricia

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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 09:52:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject: preliminary USA Nat'ls info

from the USAG BBS:

The 1994 Coca-Cola National Championships will be held August 24-27,
in Nashville, TN coinciding with the USA Gymnastics Congress!

TICKET INFORMATION:

NOTE: Congress participants have priority seating and availability of
special discounted tickets* on a first-come, first-served basis by
using the advanced registration form provided in Technique magazine.
After August 1st, unsold seats will be released for sale to the
general public. (USAG will announce the release date and purchase
procedure on DELPHI and in Technique magazine).

COMPETITION TIME FLOOR MEZZ BALCONY
Wed, 8/24

Jr Wom. comp. 10:00am $5 $5 $5
Jr/Sr Men comp. 2:00pm $5 $5 $5
Sr Wom. comp. 7:00pm $15 $8 $5

Thurs, 8/25
Jr. Wom. opt. 2:00pm $5 $5 $5
Jr/Sr Men opt. 7:00pm $15 $8 $5

Fri, 8/26
Sr Wom. opt. 7:00pm $20 $15 $10 (*$7)

Sat, 8/27
Sr Men Finals 1:00pm $20 $15 $10 (*$7)
Sr Wom. Finals 6:00pm $20 $15 $10 (*$7)

* Special Congress Participant Discount price, first come, first served.
See Congress Article in each Technique Magazine.

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 18:41:55 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Rhythmic

Speaking of rhythmic, I've been meaning to ask whether anyone else here is a
fan. I *love* rhythmic and am in complete and utter awe at the things they
can do. Plus, it is to me conclusive proof that what it takes to extract
some artistry, or at least some amount of expressiveness, out of gymnasts is
to give it *real* importance in evaluating routines (I'm not up on the
rhythmic Code, so I'm not sure how explicitly artistry/presentation is
required, but in any case it's expected, where it's just *not* in
"artistic"). I don't believe rhythmic gymnasts are just born that way and
"artistic" gymnasts not. It's just part of their "culture" (cult? grin).
While some people obviously are born more disposed to it, I think it can be
worked, just like the physical abilities.

-- Gimnasta

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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 16:20:06 +0800
From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: Rhythmic

I used to ignore rhythmic gymnastics as being some "weird European thing",
until two years ago. I spent a lot of time watching the Barcelona
rhythmic events. I was totally enthralled by it. So beautiful. A good
rhythmic routine really makes you forget about technique and just enjoy
the sheer artistry. My cousin summed it up: "That sport is all about
doing impossible things and making it look beautiful..."

-George

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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 13:10:12 BST
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: Vertigo

>Great movie. But seriously, anybody out there get dizzy (or
used to get
>dizzy) while practicing high bar or uneven bars? If so, do you
get used
>to it? Is there something that can be done to help get the
body used to
>swinging like that? My impulse is just to swing more, but,
since I'm
>sitting on such a valuable gymnastics resource (gymn) I thought
I'd ask.
>Might make for a good thread ;^)
Well the way I understood vertigo and dizzyness to be caused was
by the
brain not knowing which way is up or down.

There is a little ball inside your ear which rolls around
like a gyroscope and relays info back to the brain, combined
with what
you see this allows the brain to determine whereabouts it is and
which
way is up.

When the little ball is rolling around so much because you are
swinging
around on high bars it causes too much input for the brain too
handle and it
gets confused which leads to dizzyness. The vertigo part comes
because your
brain then tries to focus your eyes on to something which if you
are zipping
around like a whirling dervish is not going to be possible and so you
start focussing all over the show and thats what causes the room to
seemingly start to move all over the shop.

The overall outcome of getting vertigo or dizzyness should be
that you
stop doing whatever it is that caused it in the first place.

Now obviously if you increase the rate at which you are moving so the
little ball in your ear moves faster is not going to help get rid of
dizzyness, basically you need to slow down to make it go back to
normal.

I don't think there is a way to get the body used to dizzyness,
there
are a number of ways to handle as it were the condition but they are
impracticle when applied to sport in general.(Well one of them is
close your eyes, which could be a bit tricky when your flinging
yourself
around on an uneven bar :)

Clive.

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End of gymn Digest
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