GYMN-L Digest - 31 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 19 messages totalling 614 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Dom not an idiot for having a goal
  2. Gymnast comparisons. (2)
  3. Khorkina's Bars victory.
  4. The way to win gold medals!
  5. Last night's final!
  6. Begging letter...
  7. New Elements at Olympics?
  8. International tape trades
  9. Web Address
 10. Flashes- Apology?
 11. GYMN-L Digest - 31 Jul 1996 - Special issue
 12. Flashes, the crowd, other comments
 13. College Eligibility and making money...
 14. The MAG-7's routine music
 15. Kerri bandwagon - not me!
 16. Tour of World Gymn Champions//Info & Questions
 17. U.S. Olympic Coverage
 18. Odd One Out


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:20:52 -0400
From:    ***@IAC.NET
Subject: Dom not an idiot for having a goal

Sorry for not including the text (difficult for me because of the
digest), but I'm responding to the person who wants to ask Dom M if she
feels like an idiot for having a goal.

Geez, she was (and is) a little kid.  I mean, when she signed those
autographs, how old was she *11*?? *12*?!

I agree that the media was ridiculous for focusing so much on her - and
that she really didn't have a great chance of winning, but let's not
blame it on her for being a favorite.  She had a goal - and made a
premature prediction at the age of (gasp) 12 (?).



Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:20:48 -0600
Subject: Gymnast comparisons.

I was thinking about Shannon Miller's performance at Atlanta and the end of
her career. I kind of came across an interesting comparison. She and
another gymnast had similar careers.

Both Shannon and GYMNAST X came tho their first olympics and won silver medals
in the AA.

Both Shannon and gymnast X both were overshadowed in the media by another
member of their team in their first Olympics.

Both came out of the shadows as the new force on their team.

Both won AA medals in two consecutive worlds (two years in a row).

Both won the AA in the last of the two consecutive worlds.

Both have won FX at worlds.

Both went into their second worlds overshadowed by a younger teammate.

Both won team golds in their second Olympics infront of home crowds.

Both made errors in the AA finals in their last Olympics and didn't win
a medal.

Both won their last event final in their last Olympics.

Who's Gymnast X? Well, it's Nelli Kim!

Nelli entered Montreal overshadowed by Olga Korbut. She won AA silver, Vault
and FX and came out as the new leader on Soviet Gymnastics. She enetered
her first worlds in Strasbourg and won AA silver (plus FX with Mukhina, and
team). She entered her second worlds in 1979 In Fort Worth and won
the AA, but she was overshadowed in the press by Mukhina, the reigning
world champ who was injured at the time. She won her second team gold
in Moscow, her home country (USR then) and had an error in FX in AA
finals and missed an AA medal. She then won FX gold (a tie with Nadia)
in her last Olympics event final.

Kind of weird how they were similar in those retrospects, but they were
vastly different in others. Nelli was older, married, (twice) and there
were other differences. But these were interesting!


Dina, Dina, Dina.


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:25:28 -0600
Subject: Khorkina's Bars victory.

I don't know if NBC told people this, but Svetlana's UB gold was the first
UB gold for a gymnast from the Soviet Union or former Soviet Union since
1964! Wow!

And Pods's FX gold was the first from the former soviet union since 1980.
This is amazing, since for along time soviet gymnast were considered
to the best in terms of choreography and artistry on FX. You wouldn't know
that by just looking at the Olympic medals.


Dina, Dina, Dina.


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:39:28 EDT
From:    ***@JUNO.COM
Subject: The way to win gold medals!

      well, thanks for the info. but it is patroism to give your children
out for the glorious of the Country! For your own country, personal
sacrifice really is worth it.


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:39:28 EDT
From:    ***@JUNO.COM
Subject: Last night's final!

   Hey, did you see last night's final gym show on nbc?

   It was GREAT! Gymnastics from all over the world gathering togehter,
dancing, jumping, laughing, showing off their own muscles, etc. That is
what Olympic should like! Everyone is smiling, applausing! And those
gymnastics got together showing off!

    That russian guy is really good-looking, and of course, my fellow
country man -- Li Xiao Shuang is also very good! Those russians are so
energntic, especially that Alexei someone who took off his top and showed
off. :*P Probably Hollywood producers are already contacting him for
future movies. Oh, the american girls dancing with the music of YMCA,

    What about last time's Olympic? I don't remember seeing anything like
that? Who can tell me? That is what Olympic should be!


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 21:10:03 +0000
From:    ***@ATLAS.CO.UK
Subject: Begging letter...

Are there any British Gymners out there who videoed the Gala last night and
would be able to do me a copy ??  My video went on the blink (or maybe it
was human error !?!) and I'm desperate !  I would be eternally grateful.



Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:15:07 -0300
From:    ***@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: Re: New Elements at Olympics?

One that I know of is a move on the P Bars done by Alan Nolet of Canada.
He did it during Optionals in the Compulsory round and it got named the
Nolet :)



Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:26:00 EST
From:    ***@MCIMAIL.COM
Subject: International tape trades

There's already been lots of discussion about trading tapes amongst US and
Canadian Olympics coverage.  I'm actually looking to trade Olympics
tapes with someone in the UK or elsewhere.  I'm particularly
interested in getting the BBC's women's team optionals, AA, and gala
coverage, given the positive comments I've read on GYMN about the
BBC's coverage in general.  Other specifics I'm interested in seeing is
the French team, Boginskaya, and Chusovitina's FX which I've heard about.  Of
course, being in the US, I have the NBC coverage of the women's
events, for what it's worth.  I also have numerous gymnastics
competitions on tape from the past 15+ years.

To further simplify things, I have the ability to read PAL and Seacam
tapes, and to translate my NTSC tapes into PAL recordings.  So, compatibility
is not a problem.

If you're willing to participate in such a trade, please e-mail me
directly at

Looking forward to hearing from GYMN's international subscribers,



Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:37:12 +0600
From:    ***@COGNOS.COM
Subject: Re: Web Address

>I have found this Web Site useful
>Don't panic, you can find out the participants without having to look at
the results.

This is the same "official website" that has Ghana as winning Men's
compulsories -- still, 12 days after the competition.

Also, Canada's "The Globe and Mail" newspaper reports last Friday,

 "Results were flowing faster yesterday, but the Info '96 database,
  which is supposed to provide biographical information to journalists
  and others, was still shaky. Biographies of many famous athletes,
  including U.S. long jumper Carl Lewis, were unavailable, and
  information on others was so poor as to call the whole system into
  question. Lisa Neuberger, a sailor who carried the flag for the
  Virgin Islands at the opening ceremonies, is listed as being 95
  years old. Sule Olaleye of Nigeria is the 125th-ranked table-tennis
  player in the world. It is no wonder he is so unaccomplished--the
  computer insists he is only 17 centimetres tall."

And we thought gymnasts were the smallest competitors at the Olympics...

And perhaps we should introduce Lisa to that 97 year-old gymnast from
Slovenia, Leon Stukel?

The site that I have gone to for immediate results is under Toronto Sun
Publishing's Olympics pages.




Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 14:13:12 -0700
From:    ***@GOODNET.COM
Subject: Flashes- Apology?

        Sorry if I got everyone soooo worked up over this "keeping the eyes
closed" thing.  It was a joke intended to make people laugh.  Obviously,
some people haven't figured out how to take a joke.  I guess the world is a
serious place all the time.  (I feel sorry for these people).
        Also, I'm an elite male gymnast, and although never attempted a
layout on beam, can tell you that gymnastics IS possible keeping the eyes
closed.  It's a wonderful thing called "AIR SENSE" (maybe some of you more
experienced gymnasts have heard of this)!  I do everything with my eyes
closed, from full-ins on floor, to kovacs (cool name) on high bar!  I
depend solely on my air sense, and know when to open for the landing.  I've
never been hurt (as of yet) by this, and I simply open my eyes when it's
time to open for the landing.  Yes, it's a bit more difficult, but if
gymnastics wasn't a challenge, then everyone would be doing it!
        Anyone else on this list close their eyes?


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 15:45:52 -0600
From:    ***@COLORADO.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 31 Jul 1996 - Special issue

Does anyone have a web site or information that explains the changes to JO
levels 8, 9, and 10 for next year.




Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:54:05 -0600
Subject: Re: Gymnast comparisons.

I meant second Olympics. Sorry. Shaposhnikova was suppose to be th e
big USSR star in 1980. She was leading most of the way until her UB
optionals where she went to do a cast to handstand giant down layout
flyway full (she was one the first to do this dismount). She did the cast
but was over alittle, and did a giant down to beat the low bar, kipped
up and did a stradle cut back off dismount. She got a 9.75. She had other
errors after that and finished 4 AA I believe, just after the Nadia/
Gnuack tie for the silver.

I gathered she was the 'STAR' who they were counting on more from the
Eurosport video of the meet that I saw than what I read. She was really
good but she wasn't as clean as today's gymnasts. Shaposhnikova had
alot of great skills, but she wasn't Pod-like back then. She did win V,
and I think silver on BB and bronze on FX.


Dina, Dina, Dina.

P.S. This post was about the error I made when I said:

Both Nelli Kim and Shannon Miller were both overshadowed going into their
second worlds. I meant second Olympics. Opps.


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 19:56:53 -0400
Subject: Flashes, the crowd, other comments

     I just got back from Atlanta today and am sorting through my 800-plus
messages! Anyway, here's what I thought and heard about two topics mentioned on
gymn - the flash photography and the overly pro-American crowd.
     I think it was VERY likely Moceanu's fall on beam could have been caused
by the camera flashes. *I* was blinded by them during her tumbling pass, and I
was fairly high up in the press seats near bars. It was irresponsible for the
meet organizers to allow flash cameras to be used, IMO. Only AFTER Dom fell did
they make an announcement and post a message about no flash photography. But it
was too late for Moceanu then, and the crowd didn't listen anyway. When Miller
went up, there were flashes again - though, granted, not as many. At other
international meets I've attended, meet organizers announced at the very
beginning that flash photography was not allowed and actually confiscated
cameras from overzealous fans who persisted in using flashes. Why this wasn't
done in Atlanta I don't know.
     Yesterday, before the Gala, I was talking to some people and Dominique
herself was standing a few feet away talking to Bart and Nadia. They were
discussing her fall on beam. I heard her say to Bart, "All I could see was
light." Now, I'm not sure if she was referring to the flashes or if she meant
something like she hit her head so hard that she saw stars. But the word she
used was "light." She did not sound bitter at all and was not complaining; she
sounded sort of bewildered. I am personally not a big fan of Dominique's
gymnastics, but felt very bad for her when all those flashes went off. It
seemed to me that they affected her performance, and part of me felt that she
should be allowed to do her routine over again. I remembered that back in 1991
(I think), Trent Dimas was allowed to repeat his vault at USAs because he said
camera flashes distracted him. In any case, in Atlanta it seemed that
Dominique's fans with their flash cameras hurt her far more than they helped
her. And as Joy said, a flash camera is USELESS at a gymnastics meet anyway.
     The crowd was, IMO, very unfair and rude to the foreign athletes. A large
part of this seems to be due to the fact that the vast majority didn't seem to
know anything about gymnastics. Even a lot of the media were surprisingly
ignorant. Some did not even know what a double layout on floor was! But
fortunately for the gymnasts, the media are not allowed to cheer or make noise
during the meet. The crowd, on the other hand, was extremely loud, but only for
one team. I understand that people want to be patriotic, but there is a point
where it crosses over into disrespect for non-Americans, and that is what I
witnessed. At the team press conference, the Russian and Romanian girls
stated that the crowd was so loud that they couldn't hear their floor music and
it was VERY difficult to perform under those circumstances. The girls did not
seem bitter, just sad and confused. Podkopayeva also said that she could not
hear her music and was near tears after her routine. She, the Russians and
Romanians all expressed sadness and a bit of frustration over what seemed to
them to be a complete lack of appreciation for their efforts. All these girls
are used to competing in Europe in front of crowds who know gymnastics and
support good routines, regardless of where the athlete is from. They didn't
know what to make of the American crowd, and most ended up with their feelings
badly hurt. Again, I did not detect any anger or bitterness from Lilia, the
Romanians or the Russians. They basically seemed sad. They had wanted to
perform for the crowd, to entertain them, and the crowd pretty much ignored
them - often in favor of an American who was just standing on the podium
waiting to perform. The foreign athletes I spoke to said they felt "unaccepted"
and could not understand what they had done "wrong." I think things would have
been a lot different had more people in the crowd been TRUE gymnastics fans and
known what they were seeing. Unfortunately, the majority seemed rather
clueless... That this should happen at the Olympics is heartbreaking, at least
to me, because I know that a lot of the foreigners will be going home with bad
memories of what should have been the highlight of their careers. It seemed to
me that the only foreign athletes the crowd REALLY warmed up to were Aleksei
Nemov and Lilia Podkopayeva, but only AFTER she won AA. Nemov won over the
crowd with his demeanor and good nature, by smiling and waving. But I'm not
sure the spectators *truly* appreciated his gymnastics. Li Xiaoshuang got very
little crowd support (actually, the entire Chinese team got very little
support, men and women. Mo Huilan, usually a crowd favorite, was pretty much
overlooked... The same fate befell the Russian girls).
     I don't know if this was mentioned already on Gymn but there was an
overzealous patriot in the Georgia Dome who was NOT an American. It was none
other than Lyudmila Turishcheva, who was supposed to be judging floor. But more
often than not she wasn't even watching the floor routines, she was watching
the Ukrainian girls on whatever event they were on. I had never seen anything
like it before! When Mirgorodskaya was on bars, Turishcheva's head was turned
toward that apparatus and was actually bobbing up and down in sync with Anna's
giant swings. I think Turishcheva's behavior was captured on film. In any case,
she was given a warning...



Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:32:30 -0700
Subject: College Eligibility and making money...

Some people seem to think it is sad that Kerri has decided to give up her
NCAA eligibility.

I think it is a good idea and I think all Olympic gymnasts who win should
do this.

I know this sounds bad so please hear me out before flaming me.

Just competiting in the Olympics is a great thing and it is worth all of
those years of practice.  But there is something to be said for making
money off of it too.

It sounds so shallow and I hate to sound that way.  I am not suggesting
that money is everything.  But if you can make some off of your sport
(and your many years of hard training and giving up a normal teenage life)
why not do it?

Competing at the college level is never going to bring you the success
that competing in (and winning at) the Olympics brings.  Plus you can't make
on a college team.  So what does it really give you?  After being on an
Olympic team you have already reached the ceiling of gymnastics so to
speak.  There is nothing else to really reach for so I say make money off
of all your years of hard work.

This is the same theme that brings people to college.  You go for four
years (work hard usually)  to get a degree and make money.  So why not make
money off of your many years of gymnastics training?  You can literally
make 100's of thousands off of gymnatsics if you win (maybe even millions).


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:47:01 -0500
Subject: The MAG-7's routine music

Hello, fellow Gymn'ers...

   I just wanted to open by saying that last night's Gala was really
great. I just loved the final routine done by the MAG-7.
   Enough of is my question: I know that the music they used
was "Georgia on my Mind", "Y.M.C.A.", and "God Bless the USA", in that
order. What I don't know is the name of the third song they used. I know
it is in Spanish, but the most that I got of a title was Margarena(?).
Can anyone please tell me what the title of that third song was?
   If anyone can help me on this, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

--Michael :)


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:20:20 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Kerri bandwagon - not me!

>I was surprised that Chow didn't tie
Khorkina, even though I felt Khorkina was underscored, but I was even more
surprised that Bi Wenjing got a 9.837!  The girl almost overbalanced on one
of her handstands!

Khorkina was *definitely* underscored, as was Kotchetkova.  Amanar was a bit
overscored.  Of the 3-way tie for 5th:  Amanar, Pod and Dina) Dina was
clearly the best that night, then Pod, then Amanar just ahead of Milo.

As for Bi Wenjing, both she and Dawes nearly overcooked a handstand, but my
concern is that she, along with the other Chinese who perform the Gaylord
(Mo, Meng, etc.) always seem to land with their shins hitting the high bar,
yet no deduction is ever taken.  I love Chinese UB (and wanted to strangle
Liu Xuan for fluffing her compulsory), but execution is important, and
shouldn't be overlooked.


***Molodyets, Sveta!!!********


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:05:43 -0400
From:    ***@HICOM.NET
Subject: Re: Tour of World Gymn Champions//Info & Questions


There have been a few posts asking about the 'Post Olympic Tour,' whose official
name is the 'John Hancock 1996 Tour of World Gymnastics Champions.'  Here is all
the info that was in a large ad (1/4 page) in our Sunday paper here in the New
Jersey/New York Metropolitan Area.  This is for the performance taking place at
the Meadowlands (oh yeah, Continental Airlines Arena;) ) :

Gymnasts pictured individually:
Shannon Miller
Dominique Moceanu
Dominique Dawes
John Rothlisberger
Jaycie Phelps
Kurt Thomas
Blaine Wilson
Kim Zmeskal

Then it says "Also featuring: Kerri Strug, Amanda Borden, Amy Chow and more!"

Here's a quote from the ad: "A two-hour exhibition featuring the 1996 US Olympic
women's, men's and rhythmic gymnastics teams!  Appearances by over 15 of the
world's best international Olympic gymnasts."

Great seats at the Meadowlands show on Oct. 11 are already gone (I know, I tried
for 'em).  Again, if anyone is going to that show, it would be neat to hear from

Now, a few questions/comments:

1.  Observation:  Every US Artistic Gymn woman is named as appearing, Olympic
Silver Medalist Jair Lynch is not listed (ad came out before his victory)--any
bets that this Tour operation will try to snag him, and the whole
Fifth-in-the-World (!) men's team, for that matter??;

2.  This ad came out *before* Strug renounced her NCAA eligibility--i.e., she
was already slated to appear in the exhibition.  Any comments about this?
This exhibition takes place during the school session--how could she agree to it
after having committed to the UCLA Gymn team (same question for Amy Chow/
Stanford Gymn team)--when do they start practices, and will the tour be over by

3.  How will jr./high school students like Jaycie and Dominique M., and college
students like the other 5 women maintain classwork while on tour--or are the
jr./HS students doing the 'tutor' thing, while the college women defer *another*

I think it was Kris B. who posted the schedule of all the cities this tour will
be visiting--are Mihai or any other notable men going?  And could you possibly
repost the cities/dates the tour will visit (I know you've been busy the past
week or so;)

Thanks all,
in Joisey

PS--Let's hope Pauletta Huntzkova shows up, too;)


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 20:17:42 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: U.S. Olympic Coverage

I am looking for ANY U.S. Gymnastics Olympic Coverage on tape, except for the
Individual AA.  Will pay postage and any other causes.  Please resond with
private E-mail.
Thanx for your time,


Date:    Wed, 31 Jul 1996 20:01:54 -0500
From:    ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: Odd One Out

There seems to be questions about which of the mag 7 is not going on
tour.  My guess would be Amy CHow for the following reasons:

1. Since it's been anounced she will be going to Stanford to compete it
probably would have announced had her mind been chanced whereas Jaycie's
future has never been mentioned.

2. Since Amy is the only one from her gymn on the tem and Jaycie has
Amanda there as well Amy might feel less preasure or motivation to do
what others are doing.

3. Amy went to a college prep private school.  I was in a similar school
in high school and EVERYONE goes to college.  Not going was basically not
an option.  When your entire high school class is going off to college
you might be more likely to follow because it's what you've thought you
were going to do since the first day you set foot in the school.

Also they keep on mentioning Dawes will go to Stanford in the fall, but
she seems to have been planning to go one tour since before the Olympics
ever happened.  Is she planning on starting a quarter late or putting it
off for another year or what?


End of GYMN-L Digest - 31 Jul 1996 - Special issue