GYMN-L Digest - 30 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 19 messages totalling 615 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Interesting Fact (spoiler) (3)
  2. Where was men's vault and hi-bar on NBC?
  3. Random notes. . . (2)
  4. Gym Princesses and sportsmanship
  5. Unfair judging, Tesh, etc.
  6. Where was men's vault and hi-bar on NBC? (fwd)
  7. Women's judging from someone who was there
  8. Romanian Men
  9. Belu and Marinescu - Question (2)
 10. Olympic Comp & Coverage
 12. Tonight's Olympic Gymn Exhibition//Post Olymp Tour
 13. Post-games gymn tour query
 14. Strug
 15. Arkaev


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:02:54 -0400
From:    ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: Interesting Fact (spoiler)

i never thought of this, but you are definately shows how
deep the field is - men and women's.

Does anyone know who is going to stick around now for the next few years?

> I just noticed that not only did no individual win more than one event
> final, but no TEAM won more than one event final (if you consider the men
> and women of each country to be on separate teams).
> Women:
> Vault: Romania
> Bars:  Russia
> Beam:  USA
> Floor:  Ukraine
> Men:
> Floor:  Greece
> Pommel Horse:  Switzerland
> Rings:  Italy
> Vault:  Russia
> Parallel Bars:  Ukraine
> High Bar:  Germany
> Isn't this interesting? I think it's nice that so many countries can bring
> home olympic gymnastics gold medals, instead of one country taking half or
> most of them.
> One surprise was that China and Belarus claimed no event finals. I was sad
> to see Scherbo not win any golds, especially since I can't remember a
> competition where he didn't win at least one. But he did get four bronze
> Does anyone else think the scoring throughout the games was the most
> upredictable since the code was introduced? I was shocked by a lot of
> scores, like Amanar's vaults just to name two. She's a great vaulter and
> usually deserve huge scores, but she got a 9.875 for her yurchenko 2/1 with
> a hop back of about three feet. Her second vault had a similar problem and
> got a big score. Oh well, I'm not a judge.
> Orion


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:05:59 -0400
From:    ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: Where was men's vault and hi-bar on NBC?

see below

> What the heck happened on NBC tonight? Where was the men's vault and hi-bar
> competition?
> Did I miss something or did NBC just totally *dis* men's gymnastics? And what
> about Jair Lynch? He wins silver on p-bars and they just ignore that
> accomplishment!!!

        Well, i stayed up, thinking ok, i want to see high bar and
vault...well, nbc didn't show vault until 2:30 am and high bar was just
highlights - luckally i predicted that and taped CBC instead at
midnight.  the only reason why i waited till 2:30 was because nbc kept
saying that shannon was going to stop in and talk to hannah storm....but
it was a short interview :(  now i am verrrrry tired.

> If NBC is really skipping men's vault and hi-bar, this was the worst thing NBC
> has ever done in this Olympics!
> If I am wrong, and NBC aired these events, let me know. But right now I am
> upset.

        they did downplay jair's their ending music, they
showed him after winning, with the silver around his neck.  but that was
about it.


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:10:41 -0400
From:    ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: Random notes. . .

NBC didn't show any medal ceremony except beam...and with beam they
showed the entire thing...

with fx, it was nice to see dina and pods go around and kiss and
congratulate everyone-including dawes.

NBC said that at the exhibition, the entire team was going to perform
together....must be on fx??

> YES! I was *so* psyched to see Shannon and Dominique
> do so well last night!
> Did NBC show the medal ceremony from the FX? I fell
> asleep right after they switched over to diving.
> It was great to see Dominique Dawes run over from FX
> and give Shannon a hug after she won. Who was the
> other gymnast who hugged her? At first I thought it
> was Khorkina, but she wasn't in either EF.
> What's the deal with, "And these are the results of
> the men's vault"????? Are these like the technical
> awards from the Academy Awards or something?
> Back to Shannon -- a couple of times the look on her
> face seemed more like relief than joy. But it was a
> great way to finish her competitive career. I was starting
> to think it was Kim Z all over again -- blew her chance
> in the AA on the FX, ended up on her butt on her 2nd
> vault. . . . Whew!
> Well, so much for Dom M. See ya in four years, hon!
> Can't wait for the exhibition tonight. One thing I remembered
> from (maybe it was the tour?) four years ago was having two
> gymnasts mirror each other by doing their compulsory FX
> from opposite ends of the floor. Now that would be cool!
> Cynically, I wonder which really deserving gymnasts are not
> going to be in the exhib because, however they select 'em,
> they're going to pad it with the Americans.
> Still taping, BTW. Have gotten several requests, and once
> this is all over I'll send out an e-mail to everyone who has
> written to me.
> Liz


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:32:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Gym Princesses and sportsmanship

Lisa wrote:
>the uneven bars event final Milo and Anamar congratualted each other, and
>Pods and Dina K and Khorkina did, and Amy and Dawes did. What do these
>grouping have in common? Besides being from the same countries...The same

But what about Milo congratulation Pods or Khorkina congratulation Pods or
Piskun congratulation Pods.  I don't know much about the Russian languages
but I imagine there are differenct dialects from different regions.

Also, Milo stayed around and cheered her male team mates!

Although after watching last nights final round of event finals, I must
admit, I wasa little more pleased after seeing Dawes congratulate Pods after
floor.  Still, we could learn something!


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:28:06 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Unfair judging, Tesh, etc.

> The huge hop was at least two tenths.  So does that mean that if she stuck
> the landing that she would have gotten a 10!  I don't think so, she had
> several balance checks.
The balance checks in Mo's routine were so slight and I think that in
their score the judges were trying to show how superior her routine was in
terms of form, amplitude etc.

> Everyone has been talking about John Tesh so I have to add my two cents.  I
> sware if that guy pronounces Vitaly Scherbo... like Vitaly ScherbA one more
Actually, it is pronounced "ScherbA", so you should really be criticizing
Tim Daggett etc for saying it wrong.

On another note (one which Evan Gates wasn't talking about in this post,
but in order to limit the number of posts on the list I'm saying it now),
many have speculated should Kerri Strug have done her last vault.  Well,
while she was vaulting, the second last Russian was on floor, and had they
had to count Moceanu's score, it would have been mathematically possible
for Russia to overtake the USA.  There was no way that the US coaches or
Kerri could have known this, and I'm sure that Kerri wanted to make sure
the team one, as well as securing her AA berth, in case she could come
back in time (or at least to prove to herself that she could qualify to
the all-around finals).  That brings me to another note; I said in a
post that Moceanu didn't earn her spot in AA finals, and someone (sorry, I
don't recall your names) quipped that she did deserve to be there (one of
the reasons cited being that the three per country rule was stupid etc).
Well, rules are rules, and whether you like it or not, the rules say that
you have to not only be in the top 36 to advance, but also one of the top
three on your team to advance.  Moceanu did not meet both of these
criteria during the team competition, and that is all I was referring to
(And I really don't know how you can argue with that).  Miller, Dawes, and
Strug proved during the team event that they truly are the top 3 all
arounders for the USA, and I couldn't be more happy for them.  Just
because Gutsu won gold in 1992 and Amanar a bronze in 1996, does that mean
that they also "deserved" to be in the AA finals instead of Roza Galieva
and Alexandra Marinescu respectively?  I don't think so. (please don't
flame me for this comparison, I know Strug really was  injured unlike the
other two cases; my point is just that the ends didn't justify the means
in those two cases, and that Moceanu's finish in this AA final doesn't
make her any more deserving of her spot there than anyone else).


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:34:58 CDT
Subject: Where was men's vault and hi-bar on NBC? (fwd)

> If I am wrong, and NBC aired these events, let me know. But right now I am
> upset.
> Dana
NBC showed the top three vaults last night during their late night coverage.
This was immediately preceeded by an interview with Shannon and Nunno.



Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:14:56 CST
From:    ***@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Subject: Re: Women's judging from someone who was there

Ooh, I have to jump in here.  I was right there for event finals on
vaulting, and sitting watching the event finals on bars.  I spent a little
time with the women's judges and here's my observations.

Vaulting WAS NOT a good event in my opinion.  Amanar's first vault (the
double twisting Yurchenko) was truly the only strong vault thrown.  Yes,
her second vault was weaker, but the strong first vault was what made the
difference there.  I'm not really sure why all the hops & stumbles on
vaulting.  However, the kids were competing VERY LATE.  We didn't start
vault until 10:30 or 11 pm, bars and men's rings were competing at about
midnight.  We were all tired, I can't imagine that the kids were very
alert.  As Avril was the STC on vaulting, she may have some more comments
about this when she gets home and "on-line."

I've told you about the scoring entry mistake on women's bars.  When it
was corrected, Chow tied for silver.

Dawe's routine was stuck, but very conservative.  She did not completely
land in handstands.  I felt she was probably placed correctly.

The Chinese woman's bar routine could have won, but for the over=arch and
the dismount.

Chorkina vs. Chow is probably the discussion that could go on.  I believe
if Chow had hit her dismount, she could have won.  She had one "weaker"
connection with the sole circle on low bar.  Chorkina also had some
"weaker" connections with her straddle cast handstands (those are "A's"
rather than "B's"), however she had a smooth routine with a stuck dismount.

The pressure on the judges is pretty intense.  They are constantly
worried about how "JOE," the computer statistics program, will rank
them.  We looked over their scores, and it seemed it was hard for them to
make a placement judgement and they often gave the same score on bars.
Vault went really well, and I know the judges had been complimented on
their performance on vaulting in the earlier competitions.

As to the beam and floor finals (which I watched on TV last night), Shannon
performed beautifully and with flow.  Yes, her splits could have been
stronger, but the routine as a whole was really nice.  The other
competitors had some wobbles.  I don't think there was a question as to
Shannon's placement (I was whooping and saying "yes--a gold" after seeing
her routine even prior to the rest of the competition).  Shannon's
compulsory beam and optional beam routines in the previous competitions
(Ia, Ib and II) had received the highest scores.  It was simply a matter of
her hitting.

Floor--Pod is absolutely breath-taking and every athelete, coach and judge
in the areana appreciates what she brings to the event.  Amanar's tumbling
could not be denied, and I felt the placement on floor was good.  By the
way, some of the comments about choreography look different in person than
on TV.  Some of the "bouncy" routines actually look much better in person
than on TV.

One comment a bunch of us had was on the Chinese's choreography in
general.  They did not seem to "feel" the music.  We speculated--perhaps
by choosing Western and American music they are way out of their comfort
zone.  Choosing music more true to their roots may improve their
performances.  (my opinion along with some others!)  The Romanian's folk
music (used by Gogean for example) was really nice.  And Pod was true to
her roots I believe with the ballet.  I think the world of gymnastics is
ready for some unique musical choices, and traditional Chinese music may be
an avenue for future exploration.

I'll be quiet for now.  Just PLEASE be careful about comments about the
judging!  I'm not saying it was perfect, but it is much improved from the
past.  Let us recognize and respect that!



Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:05:22 +0000
From:    ***@SUN1.GL.RHBNC.AC.UK
Subject: Romanian Men

Don't you think it's strange that Russian men and women are top class,
Ukranian men and women are top class, Belorussian men and women are top
class and thus...well on BBC anyway are shown alot on TV, but Romanian men
are not, although their women are top class....does this mean the men are
not, or are they just not shown?

Sarah :)


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:16:46 -0400
From:    ***@GNN.COM
Subject: Belu and Marinescu - Question

Are they any rules against what Belu did in AA and beam finals: pulling out
an athlete and substituting in someone else?  Obviously, it was permitted on
some level, since no one stopped him, but I can't believe he didn't even
pretend there was an injury.

Question #2:  And if there is no rule against this, why did they fake
Galiyeva's injury in '92?

On an unrelated note, I have to say that I have never really been a Moceanu
fan, but she really impressed in these Olympics, not only her routines, but
also the fact that she hasn't seemed devastated that she hasn't lived up to
all the hype.  She seemed to take whatever happened to her very well, and
I'm so glad John Tesh didn't make a whole Kim Zmeskal/beam thing out of
Moceanu falling on vault or not getting an AA medal.   I hope she sticks


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 10:13:08 CST
From:    ***@WKU.EDU
Subject: Olympic Comp & Coverage

     I am new subscriber as of yesterday.  I am 22 years old from Bowling
     Green, Ky.  I have been following the gymnastics competition very
     intently.  I am sorry I have to say I disagree with the bashing of
     coverage and the bashing of the broadcasters.  I think that NBC is
     doing a very nice job considering all that they have to show.  I
     agree, they should show all of the competitions and it would be better
     live, but that is not always feasible.  They do have a lot of people
     to please.

     I have absolutely loved the gymnastics competitions!  Everyone has
     done such a good job.  There are so many wonderful gymnasts out there!
     Especially USA!  Go MAG7!  I also have to disagree when people have
     been saying that our girls have no comaraderie or sportsmanship!  From
     the pieces that I have seen on them and the way they are during
     competition, they all seem to very good friends as a team.  And if you
     would look close and listen they have been congratulating other teams
     also!  I would love to hear your comments!



Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:23:21 -0400
From:    ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Comments

I did not hear cheers. I hear d a bzz in the crowd grow, and then
some applause and yells as Galieva got back up. Anyone consider that
they might have been cheering for her to get back up and finish?



Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:26:50 -0400
From:    ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Interesting Fact (spoiler)

Also worthy of note. The all-around winner won an event final
for the first time since the 1976 Olympics. Davidova,
Retton, Shushunova and Gutsu finished no higher than silver
on any of the apparatus finals. Pods won floor (deservedly).


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:31:32 -0400
From:    ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Random notes. . .

This is about Shannon and beam finals.

I don't know why, but I got so nervous last night
watching, my stomach knotted up. When Shannon all
but stuck the dismount (one foot shuffled), I started
crying. Then, as my dad pointed out, "How would
you like to wait through four more competitors?" It
was hard.

But Shannon did it...finally. she did it with class,
and as a mature adult. So much was made of Dom. M's
stress fracture and then Kerri, that we all sort of forgot Shannon's
tendinitis in her wrist. She conquered that last night,
like she has been conquering everything lately.

Living in Wisconsin, the hero we gauge things by here, when
talking about the Olympics, is Dan Jansen. Shannon pulled a
mini-Dan Jansen last night, winning her first individual
gold on her last try.

Way to go, Shannon. You did well.


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:36:07 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Interesting Fact (spoiler)

        Another interesting fact is that this is the first time since,
actually the first time ever I believe, that no one from the gold medal
winning women's team  won a medal in the all around. This is not
meant to be a slam against the US women (no flames please) I just thought
this was an interesting fact.


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:37:05 -0400
From:    ***@HICOM.NET
Subject: Re: Tonight's Olympic Gymn Exhibition//Post Olymp Tour


>>Cynically, I wonder which really deserving gymnasts are not
>>going to be in the exhib because, however they select 'em,
>>they're going to pad it with the Americans.

If they do it like the Olympic figure skating exhibitions, the 3 medalists in
each discipline will have earned the right to, well, exhibit...

BTW, has anyone else purchased tix to the Post Olympic Gymnastics Tour at the
Meadowlands (sorry, 'Continental Airlines Arena;) ) for October 11?  I just went
there for tix, but the only seats left weren't that great...I'm in a corner,
first level, 10th row.  Better than nothing, though, but on the tix it says 'No
camaras/videa.'  I wonder if that will be more strictly enforced than at the
Georgia Dome...

So if you got tix, and you guys want to maybe arrange a meeting, please e-mail
me ***OFF LIST*** and perhaps we can put something together!

Again, congrats to Shannon (I knew she could--flawless!!!!), Dom D (she was
actually 'selling' that routine!)., Amy (I can't spell it, but can you say,
'Stalder?'), and Jair (despite yucky rip, great set, planted his dismount



Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:40:07 -0400
From:    ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Belu and Marinescu - Question

Speaking on "faking" injuries...what happened with
Grosheva last night? Was there an actual injury,
or did Arkayev decide Kochetkova could do a better
job (with a change in music, too)?


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 11:16:00 -0700
From:    ***@MARLIN.UTMB.EDU
Subject: Post-games gymn tour query

Any information on the post-olympic gymnastics tour would be most appreciated
 (like "are they coming to



Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 12:28:37 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Strug

In a message dated 96-07-22 13:36:14 EDT, you write:

<<  14. WAG--Strug! >>
whoever wrote this can you please forward it to me because I don't know how
to download and I don't know how to get off of digest
Thanks SAra


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 18:43:12 +0200
From:    ***@XS4ALL.NL
Subject: Arkaev

What I also like about Arkeav is the way he helps the gymnasts descend the
flight of stair leading to the podium.

Holding out his hand to the girls so that they descend in a most elegant
manner, like the way ballet dancers do.

Very nice touch.

If you find this message long-winded or beside the point please inform me so
by private email. Don't flame me, I am only human.


End of GYMN-L Digest - 30 Jul 1996 - Special issue