GYMN-L Digest - 30 Jul 1996 - Special issue
There are 14 messages totalling 605 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Random notes. . .
2. Interesting Fact (spoiler)
3. Unfair judging, Tesh, etc.
4. Vitaly Scherbo
5. Various topics
6. My thoughts --- Event Finals (part 2)
8. O: WAG Beam EF Results
9. Where was men's vault and hi-bar on NBC?
10. My thoughts -- Event Finals (part 1)
11. Romanian/Female Coaching
12. Kerri bandwagon - not me!
13. O: MAG High Bar EF Results
14. O: WAG Floor EF Results
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:42:19 -0400
Subject: Random notes. . .
YES! I was *so* psyched to see Shannon and Dominique
do so well last night!
Did NBC show the medal ceremony from the FX? I fell
asleep right after they switched over to diving.
It was great to see Dominique Dawes run over from FX
and give Shannon a hug after she won. Who was the
other gymnast who hugged her? At first I thought it
was Khorkina, but she wasn't in either EF.
What's the deal with, "And these are the results of
the men's vault"????? Are these like the technical
awards from the Academy Awards or something?
Back to Shannon -- a couple of times the look on her
face seemed more like relief than joy. But it was a
great way to finish her competitive career. I was starting
to think it was Kim Z all over again -- blew her chance
in the AA on the FX, ended up on her butt on her 2nd
vault. . . . Whew!
Well, so much for Dom M. See ya in four years, hon!
Can't wait for the exhibition tonight. One thing I remembered
from (maybe it was the tour?) four years ago was having two
gymnasts mirror each other by doing their compulsory FX
from opposite ends of the floor. Now that would be cool!
Cynically, I wonder which really deserving gymnasts are not
going to be in the exhib because, however they select 'em,
they're going to pad it with the Americans.
Still taping, BTW. Have gotten several requests, and once
this is all over I'll send out an e-mail to everyone who has
written to me.
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 02:59:12 -0700
Subject: Interesting Fact (spoiler)
I just noticed that not only did no individual win more than one event
final, but no TEAM won more than one event final (if you consider the men
and women of each country to be on separate teams).
Pommel Horse: Switzerland
Parallel Bars: Ukraine
High Bar: Germany
Isn't this interesting? I think it's nice that so many countries can bring
home olympic gymnastics gold medals, instead of one country taking half or
most of them.
One surprise was that China and Belarus claimed no event finals. I was sad
to see Scherbo not win any golds, especially since I can't remember a
competition where he didn't win at least one. But he did get four bronze medals.
Does anyone else think the scoring throughout the games was the most
upredictable since the code was introduced? I was shocked by a lot of
scores, like Amanar's vaults just to name two. She's a great vaulter and
usually deserve huge scores, but she got a 9.875 for her yurchenko 2/1 with
a hop back of about three feet. Her second vault had a similar problem and
got a big score. Oh well, I'm not a judge.
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 23:42:16 -0700
Subject: Unfair judging, Tesh, etc.
Well I have to say that I was very disappointed in Li X. floor score. He
was obviously better than what's his name from Greece. I am glad to see
that someone from Greece actually won something, but not at Li X expense.
Unfair judging can also be seen with Dom. D bars, and definetely Mo H.
beam. She took a huge akward bounce and still scored like a 9.8 I think.
The huge hop was at least two tenths. So does that mean that if she stuck
the landing that she would have gotten a 10! I don't think so, she had
several balance checks.
Everyone has been talking about John Tesh so I have to add my two cents. I
sware if that guy pronounces Vitaly Scherbo... like Vitaly ScherbA one more
time I am gonna go crazy. It bugs me almost as much as the "no go zone" at
the trials. He knows close to nothing about gymnastics. He should just
watch it on t.v. and let Tim do all the talking.
I think that it is good to have someone not speaking a foreign gymnastics
language, but they need to get rid of the turkey. He makes the same
comments all the time.
And again I would like to remind everyone out there that the United States
Men placed higher than the United States Women in the all around. i am not
repeating that to put the women down, I am saying it to bring the men up.
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 23:40:52 -0700
Subject: Vitaly Scherbo
Does anyone know what he said to his wife in Russian after the AA Final
awards? If so I would appreciate a translation. Thanks
"Kison'ka, ya tebya pozdravlyayu"
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 01:37:09 -0400
Subject: Various topics
"Kyle C." writes:
<< did you people see last night's men's final?
<< Can';t believe that those guys fall down from the horse. I mean haven't
<< they practicsed hundreds and thousands of times before they came to here?
Give me a break. Its not like they planned to have problems. We saw 2 missed
dismounts(one of which was no more than a 0.2 deduction), both due to a
missed hand placement, along with one outright fall. On the other hand, when
you consider the complexity of the routines and the incredible difficulty
level, along with the pressure of competing in the Olympic Finals, its pretty
amazing that these were the only errors on this event.
CROWD MANNERS AND DECORUM
Since I did not go to Atlanta, I really can't speak to this with any sense of
authority, but I would like to submit this for your consideration.
I tend to believe that the conduct of the crowd was probably no better or
worse than at any other Olympics or World Championships. I think what made
it seem so "bad" is that we had 30,000+ people in the Georgia Dome, where
these competitions in the past have run at about 15,000 (sometimes even
less). I would think that doubling the crowd size made the noise seem
unbearable when USA competitors were up; by the same token, I bet that a
facility as cavernous as the Georgia Dome made polite, enthusiastic applause
for other competitors sound like 3 people in the bottom of a well. It might
be worthwhile to consider facility size and its impact on the competition in
As a virulent critic of NBC's coverage of these games and their coverage of
gymnastics over the past few years, I want to say that SUNDAY NIGHT WAS THE
FINEST JOB THEY HAVE EVER DONE.
They provided more information in that one show than in all of the coverage
they have done in total over the past 4 years. Tim spoke less and what he
had to say was far more valuable; he found his way to the other side of the
negativity line and his criticisms seemed cogent and timely instead of mean.
He also displayed a good deal of self-deprecating humor; keep it up Tim, it
suits you and makes you more down to earth. Elfie was as good as ever, but
this time she didn't seem to be fighting to squeeze in a few words between
Tim and John Tesh. John Tesh left out a lot of the repetitive stuff that he
has been recycling; instead, he supplied continuity in the presentation. The
coverage and the gymnastics were awesome, and I enjoyed it even more because
the broadcasters sounded like they were having a GREAT TIME! In all, it
sounded a lot more like 3 people watching the competition and discussing it
in their living room and a lot less like 2 experts and a male Barbara
Cartland talking down to the lowly. ITS A BIG STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
KEEP IT UP!!!!!!!
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 01:12:05 -0400
Subject: My thoughts --- Event Finals (part 2)
Vault --- No complaints here. Nemov went soooo far!!
Beam --- I thought Dina's score could have been a little higher.
Both Dina and Lilya had just one small bobble, and I think the
difficulty was roughly equal, but Dina scored a 9.737 while
Lilya got a 9.825. It was nice to see Shannon finish the Olympics
off well. Dominique M. handled her problem pretty well -- I thought
she showed a lot of poise, and an ability to "think OFF her feet" when
she struck a little pose after her near fall. I'm glad to see she isn't
taking all the pressure too seriously.
P-bars --- I thought Nemov could have been scored higher, but
I was happy that Rustam Sharipov won. I didn't see why
Jair's routine was any greater than Sherbo or Nemov, but
it was nice to see a different dismount for a change.
Floor Ex. --- Dina (surprise entry!) was a little underscored,
IMO. Her tumbling was more difficult than, say, Moceanu. However
Dina scored 9.80 while Moceanu got 9.825...although Moceanu was
very charismatic and wiggled her bum more. It was nice to see
Dawes hit and win a medal. Lilya's routine was awesome, although
she was still a little off on her fouette turns (I think she was carrying
her working leg a little too high, but I've only done them in pointe shoes,
not on a mat, so....). The crowd booed Lilia's score -- I'm guessing
they didn't think 9.887 was too low. Booing Lilia just because she
beat Moceanu out for a medal??? Flashback to poor Bi Wengjing last
High bar --- Well, well, well. First off, Wecker hit a good routine, with
exciting releases (two Kovacs', one in combination) and a stuck landing.
9.850. Then Nemov hit another solid routine, with a *piked* Kovacs in
*combination* with a geinger, plus a straight body tkatchev, plus a
stuck landing, and only scored 9.800??? I thought those routines
were pretty much equal, if Nemov's wasn't better. Dounev's routine
was excellent, with six releases in a row, but I don't think he should
have beat Nemov. Scherbo did five in a row, but caught the last
one with bent elbows, and still scored the same as Nemov, as did
Fan Bin. I didn't quite agree with that....
Other stuff --- There was a lot of sportsmanship shown again tonight.
The highlight for me was when both Lilya and Dina kissed Mo after
her floor routine!! It was nice to see Mo smiling even if she was a little
off on floor. It doesn't seem like the crowd really realizes how great
Lilya is! I myself marvel at her awesome feet, particularly, every time
I see her perform. I really wish Dina could have medalled on
*something*; I felt she very well could have on nearly all of the
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 23:52:27 -0500
Okay this is the last straw! Now he can no longer identify the gymnasts
he covers. When Shannon got her beam score he called her Moceanu, he
started to say Shannon was competing on the beam becaused Kerri was
injured. Luckily before he finished speaking he caught himself and said
she was the most decorated gymnast instead. Then he showed Kerri,
Jaycie, and Amanda in the stands and said it looked like Amanda was
signing an autograph for a fan. Now don't get me wrong, Amanda is a
great person, but somehow I don't think JENNY THOMPSON is that impressed
with meeting Amanda consdiering they've been competing together. Poor Jenny.
And what was up with the men's competion not being shown except for the
Was Jair excited about coming second or sad. He seemed thrilled after
his routine, but hit the floor when his score was posted. I couldn't
figure out if it was joy or sadness. I've read his goal was the gold,
but he did so well and beat some of the best in the world of gymnastics.
I am very happy about the women's results. I hoped Shannon would get her
gold, because I knew she wouldn't be happy with anything less. For Dawes
I was hoping she would medal, but I was going to be happy with any color
for her. I think Moceanu has learned she has a lot more to learn, I hope
she sticks around as well as Jaycie. I think the veterans were what the
As for the kissing I agree that the american girls seem stiff possibly
because it's not the norm. I was raised in various countries and have
had to deal with all sorts of social differences. Living in Switzerland
and Montreal, Canada I was very used to the cheek kiss. After being back
in the US for awhile I was back in Canda and it felt very akward to do
the cheek kiss again.
I liked how at the end of the floor finals all the girls were kissing
each other including Dawes.
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:51:15 -0400
Subject: Re: O: WAG Beam EF Results
> 8. Alexandra Marinescu (ROM) 8.462
I missed all the bean routines before Teslenko... I thought Milo was
going to be on beam--what happened? (I did hear a bit about the falls--was
(Milo or Marinescu) okay afterwards?)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:35:38 EDT
Subject: Where was men's vault and hi-bar on NBC?
What the heck happened on NBC tonight? Where was the men's vault and hi-bar
Did I miss something or did NBC just totally *dis* men's gymnastics? And what
about Jair Lynch? He wins silver on p-bars and they just ignore that
If NBC is really skipping men's vault and hi-bar, this was the worst thing NBC
has ever done in this Olympics!
If I am wrong, and NBC aired these events, let me know. But right now I am very
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:32:18 -0400
Subject: My thoughts -- Event Finals (part 1)
First, off, I did not think the floor scores for men were out of wack.
Li X. performed a solid routine, and I really thought they were
going to give him the gold. I was happy that they chose not to
because Ioannis M. was fantastic. His routine was much more
exciting with the two double layout punch fronts, the quickness
of the tumbling, and the elegance of his line. Congrats to
I thought Amanar was overscored on her second vault, the Phelps.
I know its a difficult vault, but she took a huge step and still
got a 9.775. It was unfortunate that Shannon fell...
Congrats to Li Donghua! He really has the greatest difficulty
combined with great form. Urzica did have a difficult routine,
but I thought he looked kinda jerky doing it. I loved Nemov's routine
and thought he should have done better. He showed excellent form
and great amplitude, even if the difficulty was not as great as Urzica.
I think he should have won silver.
Bars....Well, I someone said they thought Chow should have
tied Khorkina for gold. I don't think so! Khorkina seems much
smoother than Chow, stuck her landing, and has better form.
I thought Bi's routine was much more exciting than Chow's, although
she did have a tiny error. I don't understand why Dina was scored
so low! She performed a complex routine with interesting transitions,
and even changed it since the AA, and only had a small hop on the
landing. IMO, her routine was just as good as Chow's.
Rings.....Way to go Yuri. Every time I watch a rings competition, I
think that the competition is getting tougher for Chechi. The men
in the rings last night were great, and I remember thinking they
were very steady. Then I saw Yuri, and I was once again blown
away by the stillness of the rings! Awesome.
Ok, I thinks thats it.
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 00:22:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Romanian/Female Coaching
Way to go US Women--these women are fighters--and let's have a hearty 'woo hoo'
for Jair Lynch!! :)
Ok, regarding Jeff's post:
>>My apologies, for a writer I often find myself misspeaking.
>>When I said that I heard Romanian was an "odd" language, what I meant
>>was that the other two, Finnish and Basque, do not seem to come from the
>>Indo-European root that all other European languages do, and do not
>>resemble the languages of the other countries around them. I was under
>>the impression Romanian was one, but found out it that Hungarian is the
>>other (and I don't think Hungarians are odd - I'm 25% Hungarian). I
>>don't think Romanians are odd at all (in fact Marinescu is quite cute)-
>>at least no more odd than any of us ;)
>>[the other] Jeff
Except for that 'the other' stuff:), I certainly wasn't offended by your post,
and it never entered my mind that you could be saying Romanians are weird. I
hope no one seriously interpreted it that way.
FYI, Romanian isn't as far away from the more common languages as you might
think. It is one of the five main Romance languages coming from Latin (Italian,
Portuguese, French, Spanish--Catalan is also one, and I believe there are even
On a different vein, what a great Olympics it has been for US Gymnastics! It is
interesting that, although our US Women's Team certainly wasn't as close (team
unity-wise) as, say, the Romanians or the Russians, their chemistry has
certainly improved dramatically with a couple of *woman* head coaches. No
sexism, here, just a thought-provoking observation...hmmm...;)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:05:57 +1000
Subject: Kerri bandwagon - not me!
>2) I also have a comment that I noticed about Kerri I myself have been
>following Kerri, even before the 92 olympics,along with Kim Z, and I know
>that this comment will get a lot of response but I have to say it. Can the
>people who just jumped on the Strug banwagon get off it's really making me
>sick for years Kerri has been trainning for the olympics and not getting much
>press or attention now she's done something great and is noticed, which I'm
>very happy for, and everyone is all of a sudden a fan please...... Can
>someone respond tell me If this is just in my head or do other's see this?
Well, not everyone is jumping on the Kerri Strug bandwagon. I've never been
a Strug fan - I would rather watch someone with form and elegance rather
than Strug's power. What she did in the team comp was courageous, but I'm
still not convinced it was necessary. Yes, Moceanu made a mistake before
her. But the US girls were so far ahead that they probably still would have
won gold without Strug's second vault. And I think there have been many
more moving/courageous, etc, acts in other sports these Olympics rather than
I too noticed that one of the judges gave Chow a 8.85 on bars. Obviously
this was meant to be 9.85, but even then I realised that she still wouldn't
have touched Khorkina scorewise. I was surprised that Chow didn't tie
Khorkina, even though I felt Khorkina was underscored, but I was even more
surprised that Bi Wenjing got a 9.837! The girl almost overbalanced on one
of her handstands!
I was disappointed for Mo on vault as well. I feel that her double twisting
Yurchenko was on a par with Amanar. Another victim of the line up, perhaps?
PS Channel 7 has only shown _one routine_ of WAG today! Lilia on FX! Worst
coverage ever! Do the other Aussies concur on this one?
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:56:27 -0400
Subject: O: MAG High Bar EF Results
Olympic Games 1996
Atlanta, USA 19 July - 4 August, 1996
Mens High Bar
1. Andreas Wecker (GER) 9.850
2. Krasimir Dounev (BUL) 9.825
=3. Alexei Nemov (RUS) 9.800
=3. Vitaly Scherbo (BLR) 9.800
=3. Fan Bin (CHN) 9.800
6. Alexei Voropaev (RUS) 9.712
7. Jesus Carballo (ESP) 9.350
8. Lee Joo-Hyung (KOR) 8.525
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:56:29 -0400
Subject: O: WAG Floor EF Results
Olympic Games 1996
Atlanta, USA 19 July - 4 August, 1996
Women Floor Exercise
1. Liliya Podkopayeva (UKR) 9.887
2. Simona Amanar (ROM) 9.850
3. Dominique Dawes (USA) 9.837
4. Dominique Moceanu (USA) 9.825
5. Dina Kochetkova (RUS) 9.800
6. Mo Huilan (CHN) 9.700
7. Gina Gogean (ROM) 9.662
8. Ji Liya (CHN) 9.637
End of GYMN-L Digest - 30 Jul 1996 - Special issue