GYMN-L Digest - 28 Sep 1995 to 29 Sep 1995 - Special issue

There are 14 messages totalling 513 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Worlds predictions (3)
  2. Olympic Tickets (long)
  3. Club Operations
  4. Old age?
  5. 1994 NCAA Gymnastics Competition
  6. Re[2]: Club Operations
  7. ESPN TIMES!!!!!
  8. 1994 NCAA's Women
  9. List
 10. New to da system!!!
 11. Spitfire - Kristie Phillips' movie
 12. Alberta Gymn Scene


Date:    Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:30:21 -0600
Subject: Re: Worlds predictions

You know, you have a point about Miller. Added to her physical abilities is
her incredible mental strength. She can come back from adversity and even if
she does make an error in Team, she need only qualify for AA and could
shine bright. And if her trials performance means anything, she's packing
in the difficulty and she can save landings better than Shushunova could
at Seoul!

I can't see Strug that close to the top. Particularly with only a 9.9 start
value vault. She gives away 0.1 right there and others don't. She could
be in contention for 4 if Dina and Gina (oh my!) struggle somewhere (likely
for Gina given here recent outings, maybe for Dina too- Goodwill Games
winners don't stay around for long) but I doubt she could pass those
two gymnasts if they hit.

Also, placing Moceanu ahead of the new Romanian wonder kids would not happen.
They have interantional names and the big skills, too. Look for Moceanu to
make the 10 ten, probably just sqeak into it.

I have to give a strong nod to Lillya. She's just phenonmenal and the new
down rating of front tumbling does not really hurt her. She only needs
Shannon's mental toughness to be one of the greatest gymnasts of all time.

I can't call it. Its too hard. But I'd have to say that what ever happens,
the mathematical difference between 1st and 5th could be the smallest
ever. This is what is so exciting. So many different gymnasts could hit
on the one night that matters.


P.S. For what its worth, I hope that Miller *DOESN'T win in Sabae. She should
win in Atlanta. After all, the last time a World Champion went on to win the
next Olympic Games was in 1972 with Ludmilla. Thats 5 world champs shut out.
Lets not make it 6.


Date:    Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:19:39 -0600
Subject: Olympic Tickets (long)

My Usenet filter service brought this up which will interest (and
infuriate) some of you.  Boy am I glad I'm not going to Atlanta
(though it doesn't look like I would've even had a chance!)

> Article: misc.consumers.66990
> Message-ID: <44calc$>
> From: *** (James Cartmill)
> Subject: Olympics tickets: Expensive vaporware
> Score: 100
> First 60 lines:
>  Well, after four or five months, people are finding out this week what
>  tickets they'll get for the 1996 Olympics.  According to the Atlanta
>  papers, some 30,000 or so, I believe, ended up with nothing.  Many more
>  ended up with second or third choices (especially if they had baseball,
>  field hockey or soccer on their forms.  Synchonrized swimming, OTOH,
>  was oversubscribed!)
>  People knew their chances on some events weren't good. Still, the whole
>  thing is causing a new round of outcries over the ticket process.
>  Reason: ACOG cashed the checks and ran through the credit card charges
>  through upon payment for all tickets four months ago, rather than AFTER
>  the lottery just completed.
>  So they've been earning interest on that money for all this time, for
>  money paid for tickets that never existed in many cases.  I know
>  someone who went in for $2,200 and ended up with nothing -- she
>  basically gave ACOG an interest-free loan for that amount for four
>  months, plus a $15 handling fee (and for people who run credit card
>  balances, the credit card company also gets interest from that).
>  If all that weren't bad enough, ACOG has made getting refunds a
>  customer-initiated option, rather than an automatic one. In other
>  words, if you didn't get tickets & they owe you money, you have to send
>  something in requesting it.  Otherwise, it's assumed that you want to
>  *donate* that money to the Olympics (!!)
>  (BTW, ACOG also made a big deal of having at least *some* tickets set
>  aside for the public for all events, even though they could have given
>  out all the opening-ceremony, women's gymnastics final, etc., tickets
>  to the IOC, "Olympic family," local politicians, etc.  So they set
>  aside, say, 200 to the gymnastics final, and have 30,000 people trying
>  to get them.  By extracting the money ahead of time, they've earned
>  interest on 30,000 times the ticket value, rather than 200 times.  They
>  made more off the interest than from selling the tickets...)
>  IMO, ACOG deserves every bit of public-relations damage it's gotten out
>  of this so far...the whole thing is a classic case of why we need
>  consumer laws. The Olympics don't exactly have competition, and they do
>  rely on indirect (and still possibly direct) public support. At the
>  least, ACOG shouldn't have been allowed to collect money for tickets
>  that weren't there (i.e. no charges 'til AFTER the lottery, and then
>  they wouldn't have to bother with refunds, either).  The $15 handling
>  fee was more than sufficient to deter people from speculating on trying
>  to get choicest tickets to re-sell.
>  ACOG likely had its lawyers probe for weaknesses in Georgia consumer
>  laws (among the nation's weakest) to see how they could take maximum
>  advantage of the ticket process as a fund-raising tool.  Hopefully
>  folks in Salt Lake City and future Olympic sites will take note before
>  a similar thing catches them!
>  I know the laissez-faire crowd will say that as long as they lay out
>  all the terms and people can choose between taking it or leaving it, it
>  should be allowed.  But I disagree. We have what consumer laws we do
>  today because outfits like ACOG at one time or another took pointed
>  advantage of NOT having them. I think most people are disappointed not
>  only with how things came out, but also with the fact that ACOG went
>  out of its way to wring as much money as it could out of the ticket
>  process within the letter of the law, when so many much fairer options
>  were available.  They may well have badly underestimated the public
>  relations damage (something that doesn't show up on a balance sheet.)
>  That's their own fault.


Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:58:05 EST-11
Subject: Re: Worlds predictions

I hope Shannon wins.  Then maybe the media will stop harping on about
her age.

Oh, to be 18 again!

I agree with Jeff though, it's too hard to pick a winner.  Women's
gymnastics is an incredibly fickle sport.  Whoever hits best on the
night will win.

I can tell you one thing that will probably come true - the
Australian women will be lucky to make the top 12.



Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 08:35:50 BST
Subject: Re: Club Operations

>  The Ontario Gymnastics Federation (The OGF) is currently looking for
>  microcomputer software suitable for registration and tracking of its
>  membership, both for The OGF and for use within its 150 member clubs.

Could replies be copied also to the GYMN forum as software like this could
be of interest to other organisations.

Many thanks,



Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 09:23:24 CDT
Subject: Re: Worlds predictions

> I have to give a strong nod to Lillya. She's just phenonmenal and the new
> down rating of front tumbling does not really hurt her. She only needs
> Shannon's mental toughness to be one of the greatest gymnasts of all time.
But that's the problem...she DOESN'T have Miller's mental toughness.  Though
she's a fine athlete, she has never been able to pull it all together in a
major international competition.  Her performance in the past two Worlds was
less than stellar.

But you're right...the point spread between 1st and 5th will be fractional (is
that a word?) so the all-around competition should be very exciting.  It's
difficult to predict a winner, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that
the top five will likely be :  Miller, Milosovic, Khorkina, Marinescu, and
possibly, Moceanu.  Having seen Dominique and Shannon compete this month in
Austin, I think it's quite possible that either one could be among the leaders
in Sabae, though it would be, reportedly, much to Bela's chagrin.
Dominique will be sensational in Atlanta, if she stays on track and makes the



Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 12:35:15 CDT
From:    ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: Old age?

All this talk about Shannon and Dominique getting old and them having
to keep up with skill levels and whatnot, reminded me of
something.  A lot of collegiate gymnasts still have a lot of
difficulty.  Well, this subject really made me think of Hope
Spivey-Sheeley.  I went to the 1992 SEC Championships at LSU and I
remember she performed one of the most difficult exercises I had ever
seen.  Well, collegiate anyway.  She won floor exercise with a 10.0.
Her tumbling passes were:
1.  Russian front step-out into a full-twisting double back(Joyce
Wilborn's famous pass)
2.  Russian front step-out into a double tuck
3.  Folks, she ended with a FULL-TWISTING DOUBLE BACK.
I'll never forget when the side judge handed in her score sheet to
the head judge.  She was looking at the head judge to see if she was
going to give her a 10.0 also, she did.  But the side judge, I've
never seen this before, like, was so excited that she threw her arms
around like she was in the stands cheering or something.
Anyway, she just proves you ain't got to be 15 to throw all them
tough skills.



Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 13:31:54 -0400
From:    ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: 1994 NCAA Gymnastics Competition

I saw the 1995 NCAA, and, I must say, that it was a very big letdown from
1994.  The music was not so great, and you kept hearing Shannon Miller's
floor excercise music ( I don't know WHAT team was using that music, but
it was extremely annoying.)  Every few minutes you would hear the opening
line "Dahdahdah-deh-de...dahdah" (I obviously can't send music through,
but for those of you who know and have heard that opening violin line,
you get the idea).  The only exceptions to the horrible (and/or cheasy)
music was Aimee Trepanier's music.  It was exciting, and you could tell
she was having alot of fun.  The only criticism I have about her floor
excercise is that she only had two major tumbling runs.  Another
gymnast who had great music was Stella Umeh, Georgia's team leader of
whose name  I can't remember right now.  However, I think that the most
annoying music I've heard was from another gymnast whose name escapes
me.  For those of you who watched it started with bouncy music, then it
went to some Michael Jackson song, then it suddenly changed to a slow,
kind of elevator music where you heard birds (I'm serious!) singing, and
the whistling of trees and then it changed back to the first part of the
excercise, and THEN it ended with the "charge song" they do for baseball
games.  I could not believe it!  It was poorly choreographed, and I feel
extremely sorry for the judges who had that inflicted on them.   Especially
that ending line which sounded like a cross between Woody Woodpecker and
that "charge song" they do for baseball games was expecially grating.
        The whole competition overall was good (I didn't get to see that
individual all-around, because CBS conviently edited that part).  Anyway,
I'm really glad that UCLA won, because Alabama and Georgia have attitude
problems.  They had a story on the rivalry that goes between these two
teams.  I could not believe it! What every single one of the fans and the
coaches from either opposing tem said about the opposition was EXACTLY
the SAME.  One Georgia fan would say "Alabama's team seem so proud, and
they think they've got the best team", and the Alabama fan would say the
same thing about the Georgia team.
        Anyway, I have to go now, I want some feedback on this subject.
                                Valerie <


Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 09:42:50 -0400
Subject: Re[2]: Club Operations

  Sorry, I should have added the line -- A Summary would be posted to the Forum.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Club Operations
Author:  ***@lincoln.gpsemi.COM at INTERNET
Date:    9/29/95 3:43 AM

>  The Ontario Gymnastics Federation (The OGF) is currently looking for
>  microcomputer software suitable for registration and tracking of its
>  membership, both for The OGF and for use within its 150 member clubs.

Could replies be copied also to the GYMN forum as software like this could
be of interest to other organisations.

Many thanks,



Date:    Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:06:13 -0400
Subject: Re: ESPN TIMES!!!!!

Oct 3 & 4   --  9:30 pm on the 3rd and 9 pm (i believe) on the 4th.  (or
they are switched in times, but those are the definite dates -- they were
announced at the trials.


>Date sent:  26-SEP-1995 20:02:02
>So when is ESPN supposedly broadcasting this tongiht?????
>I've been wathcing for three hours and have goten tnoghing but volleyball
>and other shit. I need a time so I can tape! Thanks


Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:57:35 -0500
Subject: Re: 1994 NCAA's Women

Date sent:  29-SEP-1995 15:51:15

This is a response to Valerie's post...
1) It wasn't just last year's music was better, it was the choreopgrahy
too. Last year, even those who had great tumbling had strong dance, with
the exception of Kareema marrow, whose routine I felt focused only
around setting up her tumbling. This year's routine was much better. On
the same note, I think the queen of choerography would have been Chari
Knight, whose work on both beam and floor was simply beautiful. Great
lines, wonderful moves. All of the utah gymnasts I really liked too.

2) The only gymnast I know for a fact that is using Shannon Miller's
music is Megan Caudle of Utah, who routine I will defend. I saw  it
in 1994 floor finals (she kept the ZRoutine) and I think it worked quite
nicely. I actually preferred her version to Miller's.

3) And, finally, it was Utah who won, not UCLA. :) As for rivalries, I
am willing to back off of Alabama and Georgia because I live in Wisconsin
and I am a Green Bay Packer fan. Our rivalry with the Chicago Bears is
along the same lines. Personally, I think they should mature their
attitudes toward each other, but the attitude is understandable. And,
their gymnastics is superb.


Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 16:18:22 -0500
From:    ***@INDIANA.EDU
Subject: List

Please desubscribe me  


Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:33:02 +0200
From:    ***@UVAIX.UVIC.CA
Subject: New to da system!!!

        My name is Paul, I'm 19 and I live in Victoria (same city as
the Commonwealth Games) Canada.  I have just started to use the WWW because
I can acsess it for free at the university that I attend (University of
Victoria).  I found Gym Forum and am totally hooked!  This is such a great
idea!  Anyway, a bit about myself.  I'm not and have never been a gymnast
because of my height and lack of flexability (ever try to bend a steel
pipe?), but gymnastics is by far the best sport to watch!  I got interested
in the sport during the 1992 Olympics so it is obvious that I am a fairly
new fan of the sport.  Since watching the Games in '92 I have collected
magazines, newspaper articles and videos of the sport.  I have been to a
few competitions including the '94 Commonwealth Games (front row seats!),
'95 American Cup/International Mixed Pairs (BOOORING!), '93 USA
Campionships and '95 Canadian Championships.  As I said before, I attend
The University of Victoria and am majoring in Earth and Ocean Sciences.
I'm interested in talking about all aspects of the sport, so if any of you
want to chat about any subject of this fantastic sport please e-mail me!

Some topics or questions that I would like feed back answers to:
1. I am trying to get some info as to how I can subscribe to The Mogilny
Newsletter out of California.
2. Where in the world is Angela Ghimpu (ROM)?
3. Any Sonia Lawrence (GBR) fans out there?
4. Does anybody know if the Canadian Gymnastics Federation publishes a
5. World's predictions World's predictions!!!
6. I have a top 30 list of things that I would like to see or see changed
in gymnastics.  If anybody wants a copy let me know and I will send it
directly to you.  I don't feel inclined to post it because some people will
stick me on a BBQ and flame broil me!!
7. I am definatley open for discussion on topics like judging (let's hope
that we don't have another Shannongate in Sabae), how gymnasts should look
(ie weight, hieght ect.).
8. My favorite gymnasts are Ghipu, Bican, Hatagan(ROM), Reeder and
Lawrence(GBR), Kochetkova and Khorkina (RUS), Cousineau and Hill (CAN),
Huilan (CHN), Miller, Dawes, D.Thompson, Powell, Strug, and Phelps (USA).
Your favorites are..... and why?
9. The Canadain women will finish in the top 10 and the men will finish
better than 13th (I hope!).
10. Any results would be greatly accepted as the sport is never in the
local papers.

                                         YOUR NEW GYMN MEMBER

P.S. GALIEVA'S BACK!!!!!!!!!!


Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:58:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Spitfire - Kristie Phillips' movie

Ken wrote:
>Just as  a side note, the two "Evil Russian Coaches" (including the one
>who gets punched are in real life.. ta da Russian coaches (not evil
>though sometimes my daughter thinks otherwise ;)) at Browns Gym.

So there wasn't ANY acting in this film effort ;^) .




Date:    Fri, 29 Sep 1995 19:11:31 EDT
From:    ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: Alberta Gymn Scene

Subject: Alberta Gymnastics Scene


This a general message directed at anyone who is involved with the
Alberta gymnastics scene.  My name is
Allan and I'm currently in my second year of the coaching
techniques program at Seneca College here
in Toronto.  A few of my classmates and I are interested in
investigating the possibility of opening a
gymnastics club in Alberta, preferably in Edmonton or Calgary.  Our
goal is to produce a high performance
club opening in the summer or fall of next year.  Between the four of
us we will have three fully certified
level 3 women's coaches, two level three men's coaches and one level
2 men's coach, one level 3 tramp
coach and three level 2 tramp coaches, two level 2 men's judges and
one level 2 women's judge, and a
sport management degree from Cambrian College.  Aside from this we
will all have completed the Seneca
College program including sport psychology and physiology, business
management courses, biomechanics,
etc. and have spent the past two years working very closely in the
Seneca's Sports School with Elite level
athletes.  Sport Seneca is the home club of athletes like Monica
Covacci, Leah Homma, Koyuki Oka, and
Luisa Portocarrero.  Anyways some of the intitial questions we have
are following and if you can answer any
of them we'd greatly appreciate it.

1) How many clubs are there in each of the major Alberta cities?
2) What are the average enrollment fees for rec and for competitive
athletes in Alberta?
3) How good is the certification process for coaches in Alberta?
(levels 1 & 2 NCCP)
4) What is the cost of living like in Alberta? e.g. rent, car
5) What are the good and bad points about the Alberta Gymnastics
Federation (Association?)?
6) How is the situation with government grants and corporate
sponsorship for non-profit clubs?
7) Does anyone know any parents in the areas mentioned who would be
interested in helping to organize a
        parents' association and thus a non-profit organization since
I believe we cannot legally do that

  We are still in the beginning stages of organizing this venture but
we are quite serious about it and look
forward to hearing any feedback from you.  You can reply to me via
private e-mail at

Thanks in advance,


End of GYMN-L Digest - 28 Sep 1995 to 29 Sep 1995 - Special issue