GYMN-L Digest - 28 Jun 1996 to 29 Jun 1996 - Special issue

There are 22 messages totalling 617 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Olympic Trial tickets
  2. USA:MEN:Trials Comps. scores
  3. The Trials
  4. Chinese Olympic Team
  5. Olympic "FanMail"
  6. Men's standings at trials after compos
  7. Master's Meet in Camarillo??
  8. Mushrooms and flip-flops
  9. Intro, Nadia, Olympics
 10. Trials article (2)
 11. Stress fractures
 12. Shin-splints vs. stress fractures (2)
 13. a job well done...
 14. Oprah show
 15. Trials results (2)
 16. Trials questions - Strug - Spoiler
 17. math and moceanu's chances of making the team (long)
 18. WAG: US Trials.
 19. Nadia


Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:08:38 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Olympic Trial tickets

I have tickets for Men's Optionals at the Trials for sale.  If you are
interested please contact me at ***


Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:51:54 -0400
Subject: USA:MEN:Trials Comps. scores

Ann & the rest of Gymn-l members

Here are results of the men's compulsories at the US Olympic Trials:

1. Roethlisberger 160.683
2. Wilson 159.460
3. Macready 156.999
4. Lynch 156.044
5. Simons 155.710
6. Umphrey 155.544
7. Bagiu 155.314
8. Stein 154.984
9. McCain 154.760
10. Keswick 154.540
11. Thornton 153.570
12. Waller 153.540
13. Denk 152.970
14. Booth 152.960

These scores are combined with USA Nationals and weighted.



Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:35:08 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: The Trials

Hey Everybody!

I just got back from the trials a few hours ago from Mens Compulsaries. It
was so incredible just being there and seeing the gymnastics heros that we
see and read about on TV. I cant wait for optionals on Saturday! Anyone thats
in Boston and has access to a computer, Email me!



Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:29:45 -0400
From:    ***@N3703.PC.JARING.MY
Subject: Chinese Olympic Team

  I don't know if this result has ever been posted before since Malaysia
doesn't usually get first hand results on gymnastics but I'll post it anyway.
A local paper released the names of the Chinese gymnasts who will compete in the
Atlanta olympics today.

Chinese Men's Team : Li Xiaoshuang, Huang Liping, Shen Jian, Zhang Jinjing,
                     Fan Hongbin, Fan Bin, Li Jing and Huang Huadong.

Chinese Women's Team : Mo Huilan, Liu Xuan, Ji Liya, Qiao Ya, Mao Yanling,
                       Kui Yuanyuan, Bi Wenjing and Ye Linlin.



Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:15:27 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Olympic "FanMail"

According to the Business Wire, IBM has set up a web page (called
FanMail) which allows anyone with web access to send e-mail to Olympic
athletes.  The athletes can receive mail beginning July 6, when IBM opens
its Surf Shack in the Olympic Village.  They will also be able to create
their own web pages and reply to "selected messages and questions."  The
URL is:



Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:47:01 EDT
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Men's standings at trials after compos

I'm on the digest, so I apologize in advance is this is repeat info:

1. Roethlisberger       160.833
2. Wilson               159.460
3. Macready             156.999  [wonderful what weighting will do to scores
4. Lynch                156.044
5. Simons               155.710
6. Umphrey              155.544  [had third best total in compos]
7. Bagiu                155.314
8. Stein                154.984
9. McCain               154.760
10. Keswick             154.540  [had 8.150 disaster on pommel horse]
11. Thornton            153.570
12. Waller              153.540
13. Denk                152.970
14. Booth               152.960

Highest compo score: Roethlisberger, 9.787 on high bar



Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:31:34 -0700
Subject: Master's Meet in Camarillo??

There was a post in here of a Master's or Classic meet in Camarillo, CA.
The phone number given was a cellular phone number, and I can never get
through.  I was wondering if the original person who posted the
information had any more information on the subject...thanks


Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:45:39 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Mushrooms and flip-flops

> Recently, I've noticed you talking about flip-flops and mushrooms.  What is
>a mushroom (in gymnastics, of course)?  When you talk about a flip flop are
>you talking about a back-handspring?  If so, I thought that a
>was called a flick-flack;  not flip-flop.  I'm probably wrong.  If a
>flick-flack isn't a back-handspring, then what is it?

A mushroom is a training device for pommel horse. It looks precisely like a
mushroom and makes learning basic circle vastly easier.  In the beginnner
levels, the jr. boys even compete on it. And yes, a "flip-flop" does refer to
a back handspring.



Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:50:45 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Intro, Nadia, Olympics


I have been subscribing to the gymn list for many months now.  I introduced
myself when I first signed up, but after receiving quite a bit of email and
not being able to answer it all due to time (school, job, outside activities,
etc.) I stopped posting b/c I hate when people don't answer my email.  But
now I have more time and thought I would re-introduce myself.

I am 21 years old and was a competitive gymnast for 15 years.  I love the
sport and have tons of photos, videos, magazines, etc.  I have letters from
many, many gymnasts including Aurelia Dobre, Daniela Silivas, Shannon Miller,
Silvia Mitova, Henrietta Onodi, most of the American team, etc, etc.  I have
met Shannon a few times, spent a couple of days with Henrietta Onodi, met
Bouginskaia, Gutsu, Dominique Dawes, Wendy Bruce, Nadia, Kerri Strug, Theresa
Kulikowski, Doni Thompson, Tanya Meyers, Kristy Powell, and others.

Last year I did an internship from Jan-June at the U.S. Olympic Training
Center for public relations.  My internship was for USA Boxing, but I lived
at the Olympic Training Center and met many different athletes.  I did a
story for USA Gymnastics on the men's team while I was there and I spent
almost 3 months going to Aerials Gymnastics interviewing and observing the
girl's team.  Henrietta Onodi came to visit her boyfriend at the training
center for a week while I was there and I spent a couple days with her.  I
took her to meet the girls at Aerials and interviewed her.  It was an
incredible experience and the Olympic Complex is really cool.  The interns
(there were about 23 of us from across the country) got to use all of the
facilities and eat at the athlete dining hall.

While I was there I interviewed (over the phone) the entire '92 team for an
article I was writing (it didn't get published).  I also interviewed Nadia.
 Contrary to what was posted on this forum, I found Nadia very pleasant (I've
also met her 2 times).  I called her at her house and asked if she would do
the interview.  She said yes, but that she would call  met back in a couple
of days.  I didn't think she would, but she called and not only did the
interview, but chatted for awhile- asking me about school, my career in
gymnastics and future plans.  She has bad days, just like everyone else and
gets tired.  She meets people every day and has to always be pleasant and the
perfect Nadia that everyone thinks she is.  I'm sure that it gets tiresome at
times and maybe she just had a bad day.  It's hard to be cheerful when you're
exhausted and it's not like meeting hundreds of fans is new to her.  She gets
that attention wherever she goes.

With the Olympic Trials this weekend, I just wanted to say watch out for
Theresa Kulikowski.  She is by far the most talented at Aerials Gymnastics.
 During workouts she was incredible.  But she has a lot of troubles at meets,
but if she hits I think she will make the team.  I hope she does.

Well, sorry this was a little long.  I look forward to being part of the
discussions from now on.  Feel free to email me privately if you wish.




Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:10:26 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Trials article

Hi everyone,
There is an article about the women's trials in today's (Friday) Newsday,
which is the main paper for Long Island. It just says how Shannon and
Dominique get to petition, and talked to a couple of gymnasts and Kathy
Scanlon. She said how it will be hard to explain if one of the men get hurt
in the fifth rotation and can't finish the trials, therefore not making the
team and Shannon and Dominique can go without competing at all, but the men
and women have different rules, etc. Dominique Dawes and Amanda Borden said
that it really didn't bother them, they were just going to concentrate on
doing well, and the best was Bela, who said that the good old days in Romania
were still the best, when all he had to do was say, "You, you, you, you, you
and you."

There was nothing new and exciting in the article, but it was fun to read,
especially the bewilderment that the author seemed to have about the fact
that no one was in an uproar about this. They don't realize that compared to
'92, this is nothing. Anyway, if anyone wants to read it themselves, you can
get it online at



Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 16:25:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Trials article

Re:  The Newsday article on the Trials

In talking about the judges possibly rigging scores so that
Miller and Moceanu are guaranteed to make the team, a really
humorous quote appears:

"I have great respect for these women who are judging here,"
Kelly said, "and I believe they are all very bright women. But I
don't think they're mathematically that bright. I mean, for
anyone to be able to figure out the mathematical possibilities to
maneuver that . . . "

That is not exactly what I would want to read if I
were a judge.



Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:41:04 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: Stress fractures

>I found a good description of stress fractures.  Its from a ballet book,
>but I think the information is still valid.  Here's a synopsis of what
>I found:
>Stress fractures occur as a result of repeated local stress on one
>area of the bone and come on gradually.  If a bone is subjected
>to recurrent forces or stresses other than those experienced from
>daily activities, the area of bone being stressed will respond by
>gradually thickening up the hard cortex.  (This is noticeable on
>and X-ray).    When the stress ends,
>i.e. when the gymnast retires, the stress thickening will eventually
>disappear and the bone will return to a normal appearance. =20
>If the stress is more intensive and well localised, small cracks
>will develop in the bone, causing inflammation.  If the stress
>continues even more cracks can appear (multiple stress fractures).
>The amount of pain experienced by the gymnast will gradually
>increase.  (At first there will be pain only when practicing, and
>then it will become painful even when doing normal activities,=20
>until eventually the gymnast is in constant pain.  If ignored, this
>could lead to a complete fracture of the bone.  The longer the
>gymnast continues to practice with the stress fracture, the longer
>it will take to heal. =20
>Stress fractures should be diagnosed pretty easily.  Well localised,
>persistent pain suggests a fracture.  If the bone is close to the=20
>surface of the skin, than an examination would reveal localised
>warmth, tenderness, and thickening.  Stress fractures usually do
>not show up in X-rays until they have been present for a number
>of weeks.  It is important not to delay treatment until X-rays show
>a definate stress fracture!  A radio-isotope bone scan can confirm
>the presence of a stress fracture.
>The area of the fracture should be rested completely.  However,
>the gymnast should continue to do exercises to keep the rest
>of the body in shape.  Working with a physiotherapist would
>help the gymnast to create a programme without putting
>strain on the area of the fracture. =20
>(All of the information came from "DAnce Technique and Injury
>Prevention", by Jusin Howse and Shirley Hancock).  I changed
>most of the "dancer"s to "gymnast", etc.


Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 20:17:33 EST
From:    ***@MMC.MARYMT.EDU
Subject: Shin-splints vs. stress fractures

What is the difference (is there a difference) between shin-splints
and stress fractures?  Just curious =]

Nikki =]


Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:11:31 -0400
From:    ***@FOX.NSTN.CA
Subject: a job well done...

This is just a quick congratulations to Kerri Strug for putting together a
couple of great routines at Trials.

It could very well be that Jaycie Phelps will be the "Shannon Miller" of the
XXVIth Olympiad.

A rough day for Kristy's seems unlikely that she will make the
team now and it's a shame as she could have been a real asset for the U.S.
on vault and uneven bars.

Congrats also to Dominque Dawes for reconquering the bars.

                        Leslie and Jenny

P.S.  Sunday should be most dramatic.


Date:    Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:06:34 -0300
From:    ***@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: Oprah show

        Dunno if this has already been posted, my mail server hasn't
picked it up though. Anyway point is Oprah in the US and Canada is airing
a show this coming Tuesday July 2, and Bart and Nadia and mary Lou and
her baby are all gonna be featured. Happy veiwing. Lisa


Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:32:25 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Trials results

Here are the women's compulsory standings -


(These scores include Moceanu and Miller and are weighted 60% compulsories
and optionals will be 40%.)

1. Miller 47.22
2. Moceanu47.100
3. Phelps 39.073
4. Dawes 38.977
5. Strug 38.821
6. Chow 38.648
7. Borden 38.261
8. Arnold 37.974
9. Kulikowski 37.861
10. Thompson 37.762
11. Teft 37.725
12. Maloney 37.636
13. Powell 37.537
14. Bhardwaj 37.475
15. Pickens 37.112
16. Fontaine 37.087


Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:35:51 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Trials questions - Strug - Spoiler

I have a question about Kerri Strug at Trials and her bars routine, but it's
a bit of a spoiler...



Okay, here's the question. Kerri got a 9.475 on her uneven bars compulsory
score, but why was it so low. She her regrasp on her hecht was sloppy, but I
didn't think it was deserving of that much of a deduction. Jaycie Phelps had
a much more obvious problem on the same move a got a 9.662. Amanda completely
fell off the bars a got a score that was only two tenths lower than Kerri.
Maybe I had a bad view of another problem she had on bars?



Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:54:08 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Trials results


I see that I didn't give the waited scores of the other gymnasts besides
Miller and Moceanu after all. Sorry about that. I had them, but they aren't
handy anymore. Miller's unweighted score is 39.350 and Moceanu's is a 39.250,
so they are still in first and second. Sorry for the mistake.



Date:    Sat, 29 Jun 1996 00:20:36 -0400
From:    ***@EROLS.COM
Subject: math and moceanu's chances of making the team (long)

Warning, long:  I just checked out the post-compulsory standings and did a
little math, based on what it would take to have Moceanu finish out of the
running . . . (empty space to follow for those who don't want to know) (also
watch out for extended discussion of score ranges for the top 6 athletes):

First, recall Moceanu's carry over of 78.220 (and Miller's of 78.380).  In
order for Moceanu's score not to make the top 7, 6 gymnasts would have to
outdo this score.  But even if the 6th place gymnast, Mary Beth Arnold, were
to score 4 10's on Sunday to add to her post-compulsory total of 45.568, she
still couldn't catch Moceanu (45.568 + 32 (40 times .8) = 77.568).  Indeed,
even Borden can't catch her with 4 10s, so the lowest Moceanu could possibly
finish is 6th (the lowest Miller could finish is 4th).

This does not of course tell us who will make the team behind Moceanu (though
Mary Beth Arnold would have to outscore Amanda Borden by .435 (.345 * .8) on
Sunday to pass her, so it looks like it would take major trouble on more
than one event, or an injury, for the cast to change), but only that Moceanu
is on, so long as she passes the injury test.  Not that anyone will be
surprised, I suppose . . . .

Just to carry this a little bit too much further, here's how the scores would
play out for various athletes, both with the utterly unrealistic and more
realistic scenarios:
Top 6        comps    if avg 10.0     9.9      9.85      9.8      9.75
Phelps       46.387          78.887   78.567   78.557    78.247   78.087
Dawes        46.768          78.768   78.448   78.288    78.128   77.968
Strug        46.588          78.588   78.268   78.108    77.948   77.788
Chow         46.377          78.377   78.058   77.898    77.738   77.578
Borden       45.913          77.913   77.553   77.393    77.263   77.113
Arnold       45.568          77.568   77.248   77.088    76.928   76.768

And if each gymnast does exactly as she did in optionals at nationals, their
totals would be:  Dawes, 78.248; Phelps, 78.147; Strug, 77.368; Borden,
77.013; Arnold, 75.968; which gives an order of Miller, Dawes, Moceanu,
Phelps, Strug, Chow, & Borden.  I'm glad that this time, being 7th still gets
you a chance to compete.  I almost wish I hadn't done the math!  The 60-40
rule makes it awfully hard for a gymnast who had a compulsories problem to
catch up again.

It'll be interesting to see if any reporters picked up on the fact that
Miller and Moceanu are now mathematically assured of spots on the team,
assuming recovery; I wonder if NBC will clue their audience in on this, or
engage in phony suspense?  Oh, well, if it gets people interested . . . .



Date:    Fri, 28 Jun 1996 23:16:46 -0600
Subject: WAG: US Trials.

1) Are Dom and Shannon at the trials arena or are they going to be
shown via a camera crew at their home gyms?

2) I can't see how it won't be the top five at trials and then shannon
and Moceanu at Atlanta. But the 6th spot should be important, since it
may be necessary to substitute for Dom if she can't get back into training.

3) One more thing, if you are at trials, can you hear John Tesh in the arena
(is he commenting over the loudspeaker and announcing things) or is it someone

Jeff - who a year ago was looking forward to the Olympics and now isn't
as enthused due to the injuries alot of teams are facing.

P.S. Anyone else surprised that Mei Feng wasn't on the CHina Olympic
team? Wasn't she the one who was on the special on the discovery

Dina, Dina, Dina.


Date:    Sat, 29 Jun 1996 05:38:27 UT
From:    ***@MSN.COM
Subject: Re: Shin-splints vs. stress fractures

Sent:   Friday, June 28, 1996 6:17 PM
To:     Multiple recipients of list GYMN-L
Subject:        Shin-splints vs. stress fractures

What is the difference (is there a difference) between shin-splints
and stress fractures?  Just curious =]

Nikki =]

i am pretty sure that stress fractures is an actual fracture of the bone and
that shin-splints are where the muscle is imflamed and pulling off the bone or
something to that extent.


Date:    Sat, 29 Jun 1996 05:30:14 UT
From:    ***@MSN.COM
Subject: Re: Nadia

And now this woman blows off a crowd in another city? I am so SICK of these
professional athletes. And these big headed celebrities. SICK OF THEM. Who
in the hell are they? From all sports. The minute they achieve the SLIGHTEST
little goal, they get the big head. Hit a homerun, get the big head, score a
touchdown, get the big head, just get on a pro team, get the big head!!!!!
We ought to ignore all of these filthy pigs.

remember that not ALL professional athletes are like this.  Once, in fifth
grade, Eugene Robinson (Seahawk) came to our class and spent over an hour with
us during the season.  This was very big for us and he even made a video of
his time with us, gave us a shirt he had worn that was signed, signed as many
autographs as we wanted, and even came to recess with us.  This is just to say
that not every pro athlete is bad.


End of GYMN-L Digest - 28 Jun 1996 to 29 Jun 1996 - Special issue