GYMN-L Digest - 29 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 16 messages totalling 630 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. How are two different scores a tie!
  2. EF Part 1 Comments (2)
  3. Gym Princesses and sportsmanship (4)
  4. Romanian
  5. Gym princesses and sportsmanship
  6. GYMN-L Digest - 27 Jul 1996 to 28 Jul 1996
  7. GYMN-L Digest
  8. men's final
  9. Intro and Junior Olympics
 10. KErri Strug
 11. EF Part 1 Comments / Miss Congeniality Awards / Magazine covers
 12. From someone who was actually there...


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:25:01 -0400
From:    ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: How are two different scores a tie!

Apparently, there was a score miscalculation with Amy's routine, either
from a score entered wrong, or a score calculated wrong. Both
actually scored 9.837, though it would've been nice for NBC to explain this.


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:35:38 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: EF Part 1 Comments

Scoring and Placements:  I did think that some of the placements were a
little off.  Nemov really should have gotten the silver on pommels.  His
smooth execution and extension really made up for any lack of
difficulty.  Like most people here, I thought that the UB placements were
also a little off.  But I thought that Bi Wenjing should have won the silver
by herself, with Chow third.  Khorkina is really in a class by herself on
this event.  I'm so glad that she went for her new move!  Her score should
have been 9.9 or more.  Bi was over in her handstand but her overall
routines was better and more exiting than Chow's and she nailed her
dismount.  What was Chow doing with her dismount?  She took a small
step and then stepped right into her salute to the judges.  She looked
really wobbly.  Kotchetkova should have been ahead of Pods and Amanar
as well, maybe even with Chow.  The judges were really awarding the women for
 originality, and I guess that's how the medals were decided.
It also seemed like a lot of the gymnasts were getting rewarded for going
up later in the line-up.

I'm glad to see that the mens' scores are getting as high as the women's.
When was the last time the highest score of the night  was recorded by a

Did everybody see Dan Burinca going over to get a hug and kiss from
Lavinia Milosovici on the sidelines after his routine?  That kind of makes
you wonder.  And Dina sharing a drink with Liliya after their UB routines?

I loved overhearing the gymnast's profiles as announced at the Georgia
Dome.  My favourite was Gina Gogean's - you could never tell from her
FX routines that she likes to go disco dancing!!!  Does anyone who
was there remember other interesting ones?

I can't believe how nervous I was for Yuri, especially after the other guys
hit their routines.  He is so awesome!  I hope he won't retire.  I also hope
to see a new routine from him.  He's been doing this one for ages.

It's too bad that all the gymnasts didn't hit their routines, especially on
mens' FX and women's vault.  It really would have made the competition
a lot more exciting.  I still think that the gold medalists would have been
the same on each event though.  Ioannis is really great on FX.   I also
loved Nemov's new move on FX where he was doing flares and rolled
on his back in the middle.  Did he do that in the AA?  I don't remember

One word about Tesh et al.: I can't believe how they assumed that the
Chinese reporters thought that Mo and Li had won the gold before the
rest of the competitors had finished. They probably just wanted to talk to them.
Do they understand Chinese?  Can they read minds?  I didn't think so.

One word about the Georgia Dome crowd:  I really hope they weren't
booing Bi Wenjing's score because they thought it was to high, or
because she knocked Dawes out of the medals, but I wouldn't put it
past them.

- Megan


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:39:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Gym Princesses and sportsmanship

At 01:40 PM 7/29/96 -0600, you wrote:
>I agree. Milo was great out there. Their coaches do it, too. Belu was
>the first coach to shake Lu Li's hand after her bars and before her routine.
>Arkaev was also congradulating the other gymnasts (male and female) outside
>his group of Russians. I may be wrong, but I've never seen the US coaches
>do it.

Did anyone also notice Milo at the men's event finals near the barricade
cheering on the Romanian men?  This lady has great spirit.
The early bird catches the worm--no one throws it up in his nest



Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:17:56 -0400
Subject: Romanian

My apologies, for a writer I often find myself misspeaking.

When I said that I heard Romanian was an "odd" language, what I meant
was that the other two, Finnish and Basque, do not seem to come from the
Indo-European root that all other European languages do, and do not
resemble the languages of the other countries around them. I was under
the impression Romanian was one, but found out it that Hungarian is the
other (and I don't think Hungarians are odd - I'm 25% Hungarian). I
don't think Romanians are odd at all (in fact Marinescu is quite cute)-
at least no more odd than any of us ;)

[the other] Jeff


Date:    Tue, 30 Jul 1996 06:22:01 +1000
From:    ***@JCU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Gym Princesses and sportsmanship

Re Coaches (sorry Im working in DOS and cant keep part of messages, so as
not to clutter)

I've always been impressed with Leonid Arkaev.  He has a rep as a Russian
bear, real strict etc. But Ive seen him live in one worlds (Brisbane) and
aone other comp and I think he is one of the best coaches out there. In
Brisbane, everytime a romanian had a mistake their coach not only didnt
comfort them or help them focus for the next event, but on several
occasions threw looks of disgust and stormed out of the arena! Everytime
it was Arkaev who went up to an upset Romanian and patted them on the
shoulder or said a few words to them. When Joanna Hughes fell in floor
warm up in the AA it was Arkaev who got to her first, omforting her till
her coach got there (her coach ran too!) and waited with her till the
medics lifted her down. At all my comps on video where he is on the floor
I regularly see him commiserating, encouraging and congratulating gymnasts
from all countries, I think he sets a fine example to his gymnasts, no
wonder we see such sportmanship between Piskune, Brobrova, Pod,
Kothetkova, Boginskaya and others. It is also obvious that many of the
coaches from other countries have enduring friendships too, not only
between the former USSR. I don't find this suprising, the International
gym world at the elite level is a small one, these girls train and compete
with each other over a period of years. I find the attitude of the US
much harder to understand, from different gyms they may be, but they have
been competing on the international elite circuit too for many years
(Miller, Dawes and Strug especially).

Heres hoping the US girls learn the meaning of sport transcending politics
(idealistic I know) but I can't help but feel that although they have the
gold, they have completely missed the true Olympic experience , esp when I
hear they missed out on the opening ceremony, living in the olympic
village and seem until recently to have trouble building friendships
within their team let alone the rest of their international peers.

Replies welcome onthe US team, I realise I may have the wrong slant, our
tv seems to be following the NBC line on things:(


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 16:29:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Gym princesses and sportsmanship

One other theory - Europeans tend to kiss all the time - even the guys
do the double cheek thing (triple in some places). You might have
noticed the Russian and Romanian coaches did it last night. In some
places, it's not unusual for men to hold hands while walking and talking
(yes, yes I know, but I mean despite any sexual preference).

The point is, if you're not brought up in an environment where you hug
and kiss regularly as a form of encouragement and endearment, you're not
going to do it with strangers just because you're in the same event. How
many times did you see the Dream Team give each other a peck?  :)

[the other] Jeff


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 16:41:37 -0400
From:    ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: Gym Princesses and sportsmanship

i guess i agree...

i didn't see our girls congratulate any of the other gymnasts...but i
could not get over how genuinely happy milo was for pods and pods for
milo.  yesterday, milo was grinning from ear to seemed she
wasn't disappointed at all with her bronze medals.

for the men it seems different....they all congratulate each other -
especially nemov, he was congratulating everyone...despite his bronze medals

> And the Miss Congeniality award goes to.........
> Please, don't anyone take me the wrong way.  I am extremely pleased with the
> US finish in the team competition.  There are a few things, however, I
> noticed about the other teams.  They are genuinely happy for the successes
> of their competitors.  Not the US---No, we think we are to good to
> congratulate our own teammates let along someone from a guest country.  And,
> on the rare occassions the US girls offer congrats or condolences, the hugs
> are robotic and appear to be about as sincere as Tonya Harding's apology to
> Nancy Kerrigan.
> Here is my theory. (Although my theory does not hold true for ALL American
> gymnasts--Amanda Borden would probably be an exception)
> Amy Chow is the star princess at her gym in CA; Shannon is the star princess
> at her gym in Oklahoma; Dominique Dawes is the star princess at her gym in
> MD; Kerry and Moceanu are the star princesses at their gym in TX;  Amanda
> and Jaycie are the star princesses at their gym in OH.  You bring all these
> girls, who are clearly the toasts of their gyms and coaches, together and
> none of them can stand the fact that they are no longer the center of
> attention--too good to sincerely wish another gymnast (US or not) luck or
> congrats.
> Now, take a look at the other countries (Romania, Russia, Belarus, Ukraine,
> etc).  These girls are practically family.  They all have the same coach and
> train at the same gym (for the most part).  The are all very good and there
> probably is not ONE lone standout--no ONE prima donna.  I think this is one
> reason why the European girls not only congrat. and console their own team
> mates but those from other teams as well (Milo-Rom hugging Pods-Ukraine,
> Piskun-Belarus hugging Pods and kissing her on the nose?;Khorkina-Russia
> even offering congrats).  I noticed lst night after Amy Chows rountine, she
> was two seats away from Pods (no one between them) and Amy didn't even look
> at or acknowledge Pods after che finished her rountine.
> The downside of the europeans is that they are essentially "Drafted" by
> their governments and sent to live and train far away from home.  I am glad
> we do not do this.  I think probably as crucial to our lack of team
> comradery is the contempt the US gymnasts' coaches feel for one another.
> They seem to compete against each other--who has the better gymnast (ie.
> who is REALLY the best coach).  I think the US coaches set a horrible
> example for the US gymnasts on sportsmanship.  As good as the US team was
> during the team competition, I was more impressed by  the sensitivity and
> warmness among the other teams.  We could learn alot from their behavior.
> And the Miss Congeniality Award goes to----Laviana Milosvich!
> What do you guys think?
> The early bird cathces the worm--no one throws it up in his nest
> Connie


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 16:49:36 -0400
From:    ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: EF Part 1 Comments


>Did everybody see Dan Burinca going over to get a hug and kiss from
>Lavinia Milosovici on the sidelines after his routine?  That kind of makes
>you wonder.  And Dina sharing a drink with Liliya after their UB routines?

after our discussion about moceanu and the number of cokes she
drank....looking at that sideline after bars and seeing pods, kotchekova,
khorkina, milo drinking coke - i couldn't stop smiling, especially with
dina and liliya.


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:13:28 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 27 Jul 1996 to 28 Jul 1996

KERRI STRUG - Courage Under Fire




Whatever you want to call them, they are CHAMPIONS!!!!!

I don't think I've felt this way since I was an eight year-old watching the
1980 Winter Games in Lake Placid. I can still remember USA vs. USSR in Ice
Hockey and Al Michael's call "Do you believe in miracles? . . .YES!!!!!". I
can still remember jumping up and down and screaming. Well, the same thing
happened on the night of July 23 and in equally dramatic fashion.

I tell you, those girls must've had their address books out, because they
were kicking ass and taking names as they went. Hitting routine after routine
as the corpses of the Russians and the Romanians lay strewn over the Georgia
Dome. Granted, the Russians choked hard, but you can't take away anything
from how poised and confident the Mag7 looked. First, they could do no wrong
on bars and then they conquered their nemesis in the compulsories, the beam.
After a stellar round of floor exercises, I expected them to cruise through
the vault. Well, leave it to them to have to make things interesting. I think
we could also call Dominique and Kerri the "Kardiac Kids", because I about
had a coronary after Dom fell on her behind twice and then so did Kerri on
her first try. I winced as I saw Kerri pick herself up limping, but I knew
she'd continue, because she's got guts. That woman has such incredible poise
and it's no wonder she was the
anchor for the team. She's dependable, and she gets the job done.

Being an avid sports fan, I've seen and heard many tales of courage on the
field, but Kerri Strug's performance under pressure ranks with the all time
greats, and will go down in Olympic history along with Dan Jansen, Mary Lou
Retton, Nadia's 10's, Britain's Derek Redmond finishing his race with his dad
helping him across the finish line in Barcelona, and of course the 1980 US
Olympic Ice Hockey Team. This is a moment that will last for all time and I
am glad I got to see it. The rest of the American athletes will be hard
pressed to come up with anything that will even remotely equal the actions of
that courageous young lady.

So, Kerri. . . how does it feel to be a legend?

It's almost a shame that Kerri is suddenly recieving all this attention after
having been in the shadows of others for so long. We fans who have watched
her persevere through countless tribulations, near misses and disappointments
know that her time was due. Last night, she emerged as one of the great ones,
a clutch performance under extreme pressure; I can't wait to see how Bud
Greenspan has filmed this, stay tuned for "Atlanta 1996 - Sixteen Days of

I thought last nights fifteen minute segment on Kerri really drove home what
a long, hard road she has traveled to achieve her moment of glory. It was
nice to get a little break from the Moceanu-Miller show (not trying to knock
either of them) and all the attention focused on them; and even this act of
courageous sportsmanship had to make the DREAM TEAM feel about two feet tall.
This is REAL sports, the REAL spirit of the Olympics. I'm sick of hearing how
how a bunch of quasi-millionaires get to beat up upon other countries by 30+

THIS, is what ITS all about.

Comparing to the 1980 US Hockey Team: If Shannon Miller and Dominique Moceanu
were the "Buzz Schneider" and "Mike Eruzione" of the women's gymnastics team,
then Kerri Strug was DEFINITELY the team's "Jim Craig", always coming through
in the clutch, time and again with a great save.

When it comes to "playing with pain", Emmitt Smith and Kirk Gibson have got
NOTHING when it comes to Kerri Strug. I was moved practically to tears (and
this guy don't cry); Though Kerri sacrificed her chance to compete for the
Indivdual All-Around title, I can at least take comfort in the fact that it
was because of her that Team USA won. She is a TRUE heroine and she'll always
be GOLDEN in my book.



Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:15:32 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest

I'll have to admit, last night's piece on Kerri Strug really pulled at the
heart strings. With all the attention that had been focused on just about
every other gymnast in the world in NBC's Olympic coverage, the Strug piece
was incredibly refreshing.

I know I haven't been with this group long (having only found out about it a
few days ago) I want to speak for all of us who were there before America
jumped on the Kerri Strug bandwagon. We remember her from Barcelona and even
before, many of us were aware of the hardships that she encountered since
1992. I can't imagine what an ordeal it must have been to go through all
those injuries and coaching changes (BTW, didn't Tom Forester come off
sounding like a jerk?).

Having served in the Marines during the Gulf War, I have always felt my
threshold for carnage was pretty high, but I could barely watch the replay of
her almost career ending back injury from 8/3/94 in Palm Springs. I won't
accuse NBC of being exploitative by showing Kerri writhing in pain, but to
hear someone so helpless like that just tore at my heart. This made her ankle
injury look like a paper cut by comparison.

The story then moved to her comeback, which she undertook with a vengeance.
She has now walked into the immortality of Olympic history. I just heard on
CNN that she will be competing in the floor exercise tonight; I'm looking
forward to it.


P.S. If Kerri Strug is NOT on the cover of Sports Illustrated this week,
somebody's gonna get hurt!!!


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 17:27:05 EDT
From:    ***@JUNO.COM
Subject: men's final

did you people see last night's men's final?

Can';t believe that those guys fall down from the horse. I mean haven't
they practicsed hundreds and thousands of times before they came to here?

what a pity. And for some of them, they probably won't come to olympic

Watching olympic is a sad thing, because after another four year, I would
be older than most of the olympians when this is probably the last time
when I am still as young as most of them. :)


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:08:40 -0400
From:    ***@NOBLESNET.ORG
Subject: Intro and Junior Olympics

I've been subscribed to Gymn-L for about a year now, but I've never introduced
myself.  So just quickly, my name is April and I'm a level 9 gymnast at GTC
(used to be Woodland Gymnastics).  I compete USAG for most of the year, but we
compete in a few AAU meets after states just for fun.  Next week I'm going to
the AAU "Junior Olympics"  in New Orleans.  I was wondering what the
difference is between that meet and the other Junior Olympics I've been
hearing about that took place in Georgia, hosted by Gwinnett Gymnastics.  If
somebody could tell me, I'd really appreciate it!  Thanks!
-April :)


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 18:40:00 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: KErri Strug

In a message dated 96-07-29 15:22:51 EDT, you write:

<<  Kerri Strug Alert >>
WHo ever sent the Kerri Strug alert, would you please forward it to me along
with how to switch off digest,
Thanks so much


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 19:46:06 -0300
From:    ***@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: Re: Gym Princesses and sportsmanship

This isn't a flame...more like a question that arose out of a post I
don't know to agree with or not (though I lean heavily towards not
agreeing!) but I watched the brodcasts just like others, and say during
the uneven bars event final Milo and Anamar congratualted each other, and
Pods and Dina K and Khorkina did, and Amy and Dawes did. What do these
grouping have in common? Besides being from the same countries...The same
language! Perahps that has something to do with it? i don't know, guess
you'd have to ask someone who has competed internationally and been in
that laguage barrier spot...


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 19:10:52 -0400
From:    ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: EF Part 1 Comments / Miss Congeniality Awards / Magazine covers

>Did everybody see Dan Burinca going over to get a hug and kiss from
>Lavinia Milosovici on the sidelines after his routine?  That kind of makes
>you wonder.  And Dina sharing a drink with Liliya after their UB routines?

        Milo seems to be infectiously happy... though the congrats in
general between many of the women were nice to see.  The US team still looks
a bit forced in this regard, but they're a lot better than they have been.
        However... does the apparent politicking between Deva and Bucharest
spill over to the team very much?  Marinescu got the shaft for AA, but was
the Romanian team a solid unit during team competition?


>From Jeff:
One other theory - Europeans tend to kiss all the time - even the guys
do the double cheek thing (triple in some places). You might have
noticed the Russian and Romanian coaches did it last night. In some
places, it's not unusual for men to hold hands while walking and talking
(yes, yes I know, but I mean despite any sexual preference).

The point is, if you're not brought up in an environment where you hug
and kiss regularly as a form of encouragement and endearment, you're not
going to do it with strangers just because you're in the same event. How
many times did you see the Dream Team give each other a peck?  :)

        [Ponders sight of Barkley kissing anyone... no, not too often.]

        That's well and good for the Europeans, but they give better hugs
than we do, also. (IMHO) :)


>I loved overhearing the gymnast's profiles as announced at the Georgia
>Dome.  My favourite was Gina Gogean's - you could never tell from her
>FX routines that she likes to go disco dancing!!!  Does anyone who
>was there remember other interesting ones?

        Gee, never knew that about her.  (Does that increase her odds in the
congeniality poll? :) )  Didn't pick too many other things up from the
background noise buried under the commentating, but why can't somebody give
THAT info to John Tesh?


Thomas says:
P.S. If Kerri Strug is NOT on the cover of Sports Illustrated this week,
somebody's gonna get hurt!!!

        I read in USA Today this morning that the US team was likely to make
the Newsweek and/or Time covers this week... but they might be bumped off
because of the bomb.  (Hmm... is it better to show the bomb cover, which
acknowledges the act and might give it some more legitimacy, or go on with
the coverage of the US team and thumb their noses at the bombers...but
potentially slighting the dead, injured, and their families?)


Date:    Mon, 29 Jul 1996 19:23:44 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: From someone who was actually there...

        I just got back from Atlanta late last night, and I had the
fortune of attending both men's and women's AA finals.  It was very
exciting to say the least!
        I don't know if the TV broadcast was really able to convey how
dramatic the finish to that meet was.  Nemov had a very slight lead over
Li going into the last event, and Nemov was on floor at basically the same
time Li on HB, and they finished at virtually the same time!  Nemov missed
the front full (Just did a layout) in his "compulsory" front pass, and I
don't think Tim noticed that he added an unplanned front full as a side
pass to make up the lost bonus there.  Both scores were flashed at the
same time ,and since after each score is flashed the results were updated,
we knew right away who the winner was.  I was on the edge of my seat,
believe me!  I was cheering for Nemov, but Li deserved it on that day.
Nemov's landing weren't very sharp in his last two events.  Scherbo wasn't
sharp on his first two events, and was overscored on PB where he walked on
the bars a couple of times and had one more break as I recall (sorry I
don't have the tape yet, so can't check).  Also his strength moves on
rings were'n't held properly and he had way too much swing.  When the top
three marched out for awards, Li and Nemov waved to the crowd while
Scherbo had his head down in apparent disgust.  I think he was just upset
that he let himself down, as this was not the performance he was capable
of.   As for those who thought Scherbo's vault was too low, he landed in
the no deduction aka no bonus zone, which meant a start value of 9.8, so a
9.687 for that vault is excellent.  The crowd seemed to boo for any score
under 9.65 for the Americans, which was a bit annoying, but I think that
close to 90% of the audience no very little about the sport.
        As for the women's meet, it was very exciting as well, with the
lead changing hands often (Pod never led during the meet).  I was so
excited with Dina leading after 3 events, but looking at who was finishing
where, I knew she'd drop.  But I applaud her for going for broke; as Jeff
said, she could have thrown a safer 9.9 vault and had a medal, but she
wanted the gold (shades of Dawes in 1993).  The Americans made costly
mistakes, and I felt bad for them because Dawes and Miller were looking
great and either could have won with more secure performances.  As for
Moceanu, well, at least we know deep down that she didn't even qualify for
AA finals.  I know that many were hoping Strug would rehab in time -
partly because she has been closely denied an AA berth before - but also
because we didn't want to see Dom M there.  Nothing against Dom
personally, but please don't say "oh she deserved to be there" because she
didn't.  Yvonne Tousek looked good, and thank god Moceanu wasn't vaulting
while she was on floor (looking at the start list, it appeared they might
have overlapped) as I don't think anyone in the Dome would have been
watching Yvonne in that case.  I felt bad for anyone who had to compete
(esp on floor) while an American was elsewhere.  It was very hard to hear
Furnon's music during the routine, and only people in the know (ie
probably less than 10% of the audience) knew enough to be watching her
compete.  Back to Tousek for a second...she missed the connection between
her hindorff and pak *again*, but thankfully she pulled herself together
and did well on her remaining events.  She may have actually smiled by
meets end (she smiles about as much as she makes her Hindorff/Pak on
        Just one question:  what was up with Amanar's FX score?  Did she
only start from 9.9?  Someone at the meet said she did, and I'm assuming
that she was missing some lower value parts and lost bonus from some of
her D's and E's which would have been used to replace her missing B's or
C's (I think she did only a single turn instead of a double which may have
led to this...Judges??????)
        Well those are my observations.  The crowd didn't bother me too
much, mostly because I knew that the people booing etc aren't the true gym
fans.  It was kind of upsetting that the people sitting next to me left
after the third rotation (right after Dawes and Miller were no longer in
contention).  I'm hoping it was a coincidnece, but it didn't seem like it.
I just feel bad for the many die hard gymnastics fans who ordered tickets
and didn't get them, when some people who could care less about the sport
in the four years between Olympic games did.  I hope this doesn't sound to
elitist or whatever....
        All for now...


End of GYMN-L Digest - 29 Jul 1996 - Special issue