GYMN-L Digest - 28 Apr 1996 - Special issue

There are 19 messages totalling 646 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Intro (2)
  2. Gymn Troubles Suggestion
  3. Attacks upon Athletes
  4. International Gymnast Notes
  5. DTB Rhythmic 1996
  6. Dom Moceanu-Mag Cover (3)
  7. USA champions and the Olympics
  8. Gym Owners
  9. Olympic Trials
 10. GYMN-L Digest - 27 Apr 1996 to 28 Apr 1996 - Special issue
 11. Road to US Olympic Gold on NBC
 12. New JO compulsories
 13. NCAAs/MAG/intro
 14. What happened to Svetlana Boginskaya?
 15. No Marinescu
 16. 1996 Worlds Report: Top Ten List


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 06:32:02 -0400
From:    ***@ARGONET.CO.UK
Subject: Intro

In keeping with the recent GYMN intro. bonanza I would also like to
re-introduce myself.

My name is John and I am a class 4 coach in both men's and women's
artistic gymnastics. I am 46 years old today ! ( *Today is my birthday ! 8-)*

I coach at Lincoln Gymnastics Club, England.

I have been on the GYMN list for just over a year and although there are not
many postings from the UK is good to see that  the same old issues and
problems still permeate through sport no matter where in the the world we are.
( Although I draw the line at time wasting flame wars )

By the way..... Are any GYMNers going to the European Championships at the
Birmingham NEC. I'll be there, with my family, for the final on Sat 18th,
seats: block 15 Q 84-86. Feel free to drop in for a chat, it would be good to
put faces to the e-mails !




Date:    Sat, 27 Apr 1996 12:35:30 PDT
From:    ***@AMDAHL.CO.ZA
Subject: Re: Gymn Troubles Suggestion

Hi. I post to the list every now and then, but here I am anyway!

My name is Helen, and I am a 13 year old gymnast from South Africa. I
love gymnastics with all my heart, and would not be able to live without it!
My faves include Mo, Khorkina, Dawes, Borden, Fabrichnova, Marinescu, all
French. (and lots more)
I can't wait till Atlanta and my picks there are Mo, Marinescu, Gogean and
I subscribe to IG and Gym Stars, and I get information from there, but this
list is really great because you get all the results, etc. as soon as it
Rachele and everyone else, keep up the good work!
Luv Helen.


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 11:11:46 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Attacks upon Athletes

In line with my previous post, I want to start discussion of an issue that I
think is very important, the attacking of the courage, motivations and even
the worth of athletes by people who have no perspective or right to initiate
those attacks.

Our gymnasts are among the very special young people in the world today,
regardless of their level.  They have a level of  commitment that is very
unique and very rare.  They have chosen a very difficult and challenging road
in life, and they are to be respected for their willingness to strive for
excellence against all of the odds.  Too often, their courage is defined by
the skills that they perform.  Every year, I tell the parents that the
greatest change that will take place in their son's life will occur the first
time he steps out on the floor exercise mat to perform that routine in
competition.  There he stands, a little boy, alone on 1600 square feet of
blue carpet, with no one there to help him, ready to show his team, his
family, and a bunch of strangers what HE, alone, can do.  That is certainly a
defining moment, and one requiring great courage.  I see great courage every
day in the gym; the boy who is terrified of high bar, but finds it within
himself to perform the skills that he needs, the boy who is exhausted but
finds it within himself to do that one last repetition that is necessary for
that event on that day, the boy who struggles with a skill but has the
courage to try again, and the boy who fails to fulfill his goals at a
particular meet but finds the courage to go on.  At the older levels of the
sport, consider the courage it takes for an older gymnast to put his life on
hold for several years so that he can pursue a dream (not to mention the
wives who are willing to support the pursuit of this dream).  I was
astonished at the ignorance and the stupidity of the media, in particular,
and the professional critics who missed THE great story in women's gymnastics
in the 1992 Olympics.  People attacked Kim Zmeskal (and Bela Karolyi) for her
misses in the compulsories.  How could one miss the incredible courage of a
young girl, standing there with her personal dreams shattered, who found it
iwithin herself to put on a BRILLIANT optional performance, the best in the
meet, for the benfit of her team and country?  I have no patience with or use
for the small minded people who attack these athletes, who question their
commitment, their ability, and their courage.  I would ask those "fans" (and
this could apply to fans of any sport), "What great challenge have you CHOSEN
to take onin your life?  What gives YOU the right to attack these athletes'
courage and worth? "


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 08:28:17 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: International Gymnast Notes

                            I got my IG yesterday and I found it very
interesting. Here are a couple of interesting notes:

                            1) The International Of France Competition
sounded like one that many of the gymnasts who competed there would
rather forget. Many mistakes were made from the usual stellar
performers like Podkopayeva. Athletes were forced to warm up in a
separate area than where the competition was held w/no one-touch warmup
which may have contributed to the mistakes.
                            2) When Bogi was warming up her floor
routine at the 3 on 3 McDonalds Championships, she shouted to Bela,
"Don't touch me, I'll do it myself."(refering to her full-in which she
was having problems with) I found this somewhat funny.
                            3) There was a very nice article on Shannon
Miller w/beatiful pictures. I was surprised to hear that she may not
end her carrer after the Olympics. "Boginskaya is 23 and she's
competing" Shannon said.
                            4) There were interviews w/ Yvonne Tousek
and Joanna Hughes this month. Both were very informative and makes me
wish even more that I could see more of these two young ladies in the

                            Overall, a very good issue. Well, gotta



Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 14:31:49 -0400
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: DTB Rhythmic 1996

DTB-Pokal 1996 (Rhythmic)

28th April, 1996

Individual Results:

 1. Tatiana Ogrizko             (BLR)   39.775
 2. Larissa Lukianenko          (BLR)   39.725
 3. Amina Zaripova              (RUS)   39.675
 4. Eva Serrano                 (FRA)   39.325
 5. Magdalena Brzeska           (GER)   39.300
 6. Almudena Cid Tostado        (ESP)   38.825
 7. Janina Batyrchina           (RUS)   38.800
 8. Boriana Guergieva           (BUL)   37.875

A shock as Larissa Lukianenko was upstaged by her fellow
countrywoman Tatiana Ogrizko. Larissa's good work was undone
when she only scored a 9.825 in her ribbon routine. She
later came back to score a 10 on her clubs but the damage
was done. Ogrizko meanwhile was performing steadily with
scores of above 9.900 in all four routines topped by her
clubs with 9.975. Not sure why Janina Batyrchina was down
in 7th place, the only routines that they showed on TV was
her rope where she scored 9.850.

Groups Results:

 1. Spain       (ESP)   19.675
 2. Ukraine     (UKR)   19.300
 3. Germany     (GER)   19.150
 4. Belarus     (BLR)   19.000
 5. Netherlands (NED)   18.575


PS I will be going to the womens Europeans in Birmingham,
England, too but only on the Saturday (18th May). My friend
and I will be sitting in Block 5 Seats F 119 & F 120. Feel
free to drop by to say hello for those who are going.



Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:29:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Dom Moceanu-Mag Cover

I'll add my 2 cents to this.  At the American Cup the commentator said that
Dom was the "odds-on favorite" for Atlanta.  As far as I'm concerned, this
is ridiculous.  I agree that she has phenomenal talent, but she has neither
the difficulty nor the form (especially the latter) to be the Olympic

What makes me sad is that she may come to feel that her tremendous
accomplishments are failures if she doesn't take gold.  She has every
reason to be proud of herself whether she makes the team or not.  It's a
shame that she's being told to expect to be the best.  Being 5th, or 10th,
or 45th in the world is still a terrific acomplishment.


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:35:25 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Dom Moceanu-Mag Cover

        I totally agree that this cover is premature.  How quickly we
forget that Dianne Durham and Kristie Phillips were both US champs the
year before the Olympics and neither of them made the Olympic team.  Part
of me hopes that Moceanu doesn't make the Olympic team so that people (ie
media) will wake up and realize what they are doing to these children by
touting them so highly like that.  Gymnastics has shown itself to be a
very unpredictable sport, and no one can pick who is even going to make
the olympic team, much less who is going to win when they get there.  I
found John Tesh's comments at ScAm cup particularly upsetting.  Remember,
he was working for CBS back in 1986 when he said in response to whether
Kristie would be the next Olympic champion "it my very well be", amoung
other comments.  Some people never learn.


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 15:08:06 -0500
Subject: USA champions and the Olympics

Just for the record, nationals champs the year before the Olympics
and their placing the year of the Olympics or in the Olympics...

1979-Leslie Pyfer
1980-Pyfer quit the sport in 1980, or late 1979

1983-Diane Durham
1984-Ninth at trials (and apparently got screwed?)

1987-Kristie Phillips
1988-Phoebe Mills won, Phillips eighth at trials

1991 and 1992 Kim Zmeskal, but Zmeskal finishes 10th at the Olympics


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 16:17:58 -0400
From:    ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: Dom Moceanu-Mag Cover

>        I totally agree that this cover is premature.  How quickly we
>forget that Dianne Durham and Kristie Phillips were both US champs the
>year before the Olympics and neither of them made the Olympic team.  Part
>of me hopes that Moceanu doesn't make the Olympic team so that people (ie
>media) will wake up and realize what they are doing to these children by
>touting them so highly like that.  Gymnastics has shown itself to be a
>very unpredictable sport, and no one can pick who is even going to make
>the olympic team, much less who is going to win when they get there.  I

        If Moceanu *doesn't* make the team, though, then the media sword
might swing the other way, though... even more bashing in the Joan
Ryan/Oprah/etc. style.  I don't doubt that Moceanu would try to defend her
position, but, as we've seen, it can be easy to twist someone's own words
around.  If she doesn't make it, hope she doesn't look at all tired,
retires, or does anything that could be misconstrued, because someone will
jump on her.
        I don't know how reality could be shown without giving someone,
somewhere, ammo for an anti-gymnastics stance.  It's taken a while, but the
sport's managed to develop a serious difference between its image to most
people and its reality.


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:05:58 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Gym Owners

Mike has raised some interesting questions about the costs of
gymnastics and the money being made by coaches, particularly through private

I know an awful lot of coaches, and I don't know any of them who are in
danger of moving into the realm of the wealthy.  Some are better off than
others (if they own their gym), but none are listed among even their city's
wealthiest citizens.  I have met many people who sit in a gym and look at all
of those kids, do a little math in their heads, and conclude that the owner
is richer than Croessus and is ripping them off.  I won't go into all of the
details, but the expenses of operating a gym, particularly one that offers
Teams, are outrageous.  I personally doubt if too many other small
businessmen reinvest as large a proportion of their gross into replacing and
updating equipment, as well as repairing it, as most gym owners do.  I really
RESENT the implication that gym owners are a bunch of money-sucking pigs
devoted to separating you from your wallet.  Most of them are in the business
because they love the sport and the kids, and they have the ability and
wherewithall to run the business.  As for those of us who do NOT own a gym, I
don't know any of us who is getting rich, and many of the young and/or part
time coaches in this country have a real struggle just to make ends meet.

Personally, I don't believe in giving private lessons.  If a boy on one of my
teams wants some extra help, he just needs to ask me and I will find the time
to spend with him.  This way, I don't solicit extra money from the parents,
AND, I know that I am helping a boy who WANTS help, not teaching a boy whose
parents have decided that he needs extra help.  However, if a coach is
willing to give up their time to work privately with a child, and the cost of
the private is set up front, where do you get off complaining about the coach
being paid for his/her time?

This always brings us back to the war cry of the NEA and AFT Teachers Unions
back in the late 60's and early 70's, when many of their members qualified
for food stamps; "You can't eat dedication!"  In the private sector of
gymnastics, we must always balance the price that people are able to pay with
the needs to provide a reasonable living for our coaches.  I never heard of a
group of parents going to a gym owner and insisting that he raise their
tuition so that their children's coach can be better paid.  I did hear a
group of parents complain, however, when a gym owner proposed that he might
arrange a corporate sponsorship to pay the costs of hiring an extra coach for
their group, that he should shell out the money himself and give the
sponsorship money to their travel fund.


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 18:16:44 -0400
From:    ***@CYBERNEX.NET
Subject: Olympic Trials

        With all this talk of Dominique Moceanu making the team or not, I
was wondering if what I read in IG was true or not.  It said that only the
trials results will be used to pick the team, in other words no scores from
nationals count, and there will be no "behind closed doors" meetings.  How
do you think this will effect the athletes, and how does this effect those
that are injured during the trials?



I'm a senior in high school, I graduate the day before trials:) I plan on
attending Georgia Tech next year with a major in Biology/ genetics.  I have
never been a gymnast, just a fan.  I'm a thrower (shot put, discus) and am
captain of the high school team.


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:29:26 CST
From:    ***@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 27 Apr 1996 to 28 Apr 1996 - Special issue

On Sun, 28 Apr 1996 04:30:36 -0400,
Automatic digest processor  <LISTSERV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU> wrote:

>ALABAMA'S STEPHANIE WOODS: stalder, handstand on low bar, stalder, nailed a
>double-pike landing, only release move is a bail to handstand on low bar but
>still has a 10.00 starting value -- 9.975
Last time I saw Stephanie Woods' bar routine she had a Stalder hop-change
in handstand.  This is a "D" move and is also considered a release move.
Any skill with a "hop-in" is considered a release move and counts toward
the Special Requirement of 2 "B" or better release moves.

Hope that clarifies your remark.



Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 17:11:29 -0800
From:    ***@EFN.ORG
Subject: Road to US Olympic Gold on NBC

Hello Gymners,

Just thought I'd share a summary of the TV program that featured Jaycie
Phelps last night.  Mary Lou Retton was the co-host and it actually
contained quite a bit of gymnastics information.

It started out as the usual Moceanu hype, a reporter asking, "Will she be
the next Nadia or Mary Lou?  Many expect that she will strike gold in
Atlanta.  What do you think Mary Lou?"

Mary Lou - "Well, let's remember that Dominique has to make the team first!
I think she has the ability to win one kind of medal in Atlanta, I really
do."  (Don't ask me what that meant, I'm just quoting her)  "However,
there's a lot of expectations for her and that's a lot of pressure on a 14
year old, so we'll see if Dominique can live up to that pressure."

They showed a lot of Phelps at the American Classic.  Her parents talked
about how satisfied they were with Mary Lee's coaching.  Apparently no one
thought she would really go that far until she met up with Mary Lee and
everyone was very surprised that she did so well.

A charming moment - Mary Lee Tracy commented on what a hard worker Jaycie is
and how she couldn't ask for a better athlete.  Jaycie looked up at her and
smiled and said, "And I couldn't ask for a better coach."  Probably not,
Mary Lee gave her a 1994 Ford Mustang to drive now that she has her driver's



Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 19:32:28 -0500
From:    ***@RHODES.EDU
Subject: Intro

Hi Everyone!
 Just wanted to introduce myself real fast.  I'm in the middle of finals and on
 a quick study break.
 My name is Seeley and I am a 19 year old soon-to-be sophomore at Rhodes
 College in Memphis.
I started gymnastics when I was real young and competed for a number of years.
 I had to quit when I
was in high school though, because of the ever popular back problems.  I am
 still a huge fan and
keep in touch with the gym world through this, IG, and a few friends.  I am
 going to Atlanta--2
sessions of podium training and the exhibition at the end of the competition.
 If anyone wants to
get together then, email me and let me know.  Let's see..what else...I am from
favorite gymnasts are Podkopayeva, Dawes, and Strug.  I, personally, do not
 think Moceanu will medal
in the Olympics and am having a hard time seeing why people think she is *so*
 good.  JMHO.  Need to
get back to the books...


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 20:50:26 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: New JO compulsories

>New USA junior olympic compulsories will not start until the summer of 1997.

I don't know about the girls' , but I know that the mens' routines will be
released at JO nationals in early may of this year and we will be competing
them in January of '97.



Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:38:00 -0400
Subject: NCAAs/MAG/intro

I want to thank everyone for the great reports from the Men's NCAAs in Palo
Alto.  It was almost like being there!  After Blaine Wilson's great showing,
I may have to move him higher on my list of predicted Olympians.

I tried to send a note to George to thank him, but it seems to have
bounced.  If he's reading this, please contact me.

In keeping with the new trend in introductions, I'll give a little one.
Even though I've been on the list around 6 months and made a few postings,
I've never done an intro.

I am a 41 year old state government attorney.  I am very happily wed and the
proud father of two wonderful daughters.  My interest in gymnastics goes
back to Kurt Thomas' years.  I've never been an athlete and I'm pretty small
too.  When Sports Illustrated did a spread on Kurt, I was very impressed
with what a great athlete a "little" guy could be.  I started watching as
much gym as possible and quickly became "hooked".  Although both my
daughters started as gymnasts, they now swim competitively year around in
USS, the YMCA/YWCA program, and our country club conference.  Their "Y" team
is this year's state champion.  My neice was quite a gymnast, winning her
age/skill level state AA championship in 1994 just two weeks prior to her
untimely and tragic death.  She was bound for elite level, no doubt about
it.  I am so enthralled with gymnastics, I volunteered to run the boys'
competition for our Bluegrass State Games two consecutive years.  I have two
friends who have sons competing and I try to keep up with their gymnastics
as well.  (Somewhat difficult since one is in California and two are in
Ohio.)  I also try to get to the University of Kentucky's meets when possible.

I guess that's about it!  If you saw my post yesterday on Jenny Hansen, you
may want to read the article in today's paper.  Just use the same URL, but
substitute sun for sat in the address for the Hansen html.



Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:58:15 EDT
From:    ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: What happened to Svetlana Boginskaya?

Hey, could somebody tell me what happened to Svetlana Boginskaya?
Wasn't she supposed to be competing at the world championships? I
heard that no one knew what happened to her. Was she injured? Was she
kidnapped? Just kidding.


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 21:56:21 EDT
From:    ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: Re: No Marinescu

I agree with the previous postings on the absence of Alexandre
Marinescu's balance beam routines at the '96 worlds. ABC has the
worst gymnastics coverage of any network. They only showed about 25
minutes of actually competition. The rest was commercials and fluff.
I hate it.

They had the opportunity to show some great coverage. But, as usual,
they blew it. I think Alexandre Marinescu is one of the best gymnasts
in the world. They should have shown her. I can only imagine it was a
great routine.


Date:    Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:18:31 EDT
Subject: 1996 Worlds Report: Top Ten List

Hello to all,

Here is my first report on the 96 Worlds hosted in San Juan, Puerto Rico.

At this point, most of you have seen the scores and even seen most of the final
round routines (in the United States) via ABC s Wide World of  Sports. So, in my
reports, instead of giving the scores and awards, I will give my personal top
ten lists for Biggest Disappointments, Biggest Highlights, and Honorable
Mentions. These lists deal solely with the competition itself. If there is any
interest out there, I can relate some additional anecdotes from Worlds, related
to the events surrounding Worlds (stories concerning what the athletes did at
the beach and who lost how much at the black jack table in the hotel casino).

For this first report, I am listing my biggest disappointments.

I attended the Worlds with the International Gymnast tour group. Let me say
first of all, the IG tour is a great way to see the Worlds. We had great seats,
a great locale during the Worlds, and it was an opportunity to hang out with
other gymnastics enthusiasts.

Now, my top ten list of biggest disappointments at the Worlds competition. The
items in this list are in no particular order.

Biggest Disappointments:
1. Elvire Teza s (FRANCE) fall from beam in the qualifying competition. During
the practice session, Teza showed a great routine. It would have been a
highlight of the competition. But her fall in the first round and a score of
9.187 deprived folks at home from seeing her perform.

2. Dominique Dawe s (USA) stumble on her second pass on floor in the qualifying
competition. She did a whip back through to a 2 1/2 twist to punch front,
stepping out of bounds. Others in the IG tour group told me she often has
trouble with this pass.

3. Mark Sohn s (USA) fall from pommel horse in the qualifying competition. If I
remember correctly, Mark missed an element in his routine, and tried to
compensate by doing something else. However, he misjudged his hand placement and
slipped off the horse.  There s a good chance that this was Mark s last shot at
going to Worlds. It was a big disappointment for his career to end this way.

4. Ivan Ivankov s (BELARUS) crash and burn on high bar in semifinals. In the
qualifying round Ivankov had troubles with regrasp and in semifinals his
troubles caught up with him big time. I believe it was the Kovacs that he missed
and he then totally flopped on his dismount, ending up with a miserable 7.450.
He fell on high bar at Sabae as well.

5. Vitaly Scherbo s (BELARUS) fall from pommel horse in semifinals. Early in his
routine I swear I saw his hand almost slip off the horse early in the routine.
If so, the error caught up with him later in the routine when he fell. It is
disappointing because he has such clean form and great scissors and flairs work.

6. Eugeny Podgorny s (RUSSIA) botched triple back in floor finals. In warmups,
Eugeny had absolutely no trouble executing a triple back, but in competition he
under-rotated and touched his hands to the mat. Apparently the pressure of
finals got to him. A member of the tour group said Eugeny had the same problem
in Sabae last October: fine in warmups, chokes in competition.

7. Ioannis Melissanidis (GREECE) failing to make floor finals. Apparently this
young guy s routine is too original for the judges.

8. Andreas Wecker (GERMANY) failing to make any events in finals. Wecker
qualified for four events in semifinals (high bar, rings, pommel horse, parallel
bars), but made none of the event finals. In particular on high bar he went from
9.662 to 8.975. And, on parallel bars he went from 9.562 to 8.975.

9. Dominique Dawe s crash and burn on uneven bars. This was unfortunate to see
in person.

10. Judging: If you saw the Worlds in person or on television, you have to admit
that there was some odd judging going on. Gogean (ROMANIA) was given a gift
score of  9.775 on her second vault in finals (she did a Phelps).  Chorkina
(Russia) was overscored for her uneven bar routine in finals. Vitaly Scherbo s
score on parallel bar was another gift. He walked on the bar and hopped on his
landing, but ended up with 9.737. IMHO it should have been more like 9.660. In
semifinals, Chris LaMorte (USA) was underscored on rings as was Chainey Umphrey
(USA) on high bar. There were also two notable judge s conferences (one during
the women s vault qualifying round and one during the high bar finals). The one
for women s vault held up the competition for at least 15 minutes.

Anyway, that is all for now. Next report: Biggest Highlights



End of GYMN-L Digest - 28 Apr 1996 - Special issue