GYMN-L Digest - 26 Jun 1996 to 27 Jun 1996

There are 15 messages totalling 448 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Whips and whipbacks
  2. drinking game (3)
  3. WAG: Vaults
  4. injuries/fractures/landings
  5. TV Alerts for this coming week
  6. Sea World
  7. New book on Dominique Moceanu!
  8. +Defending Goodwill Champs
  9. get together of forum subscribers at US Trials
 10. Newspaper articles on gymnasts
 11. Nadia
 12. Tickets to Atlanta
 13. Don't tell me I missed OT!!!


Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:17:24 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Whips and whipbacks

What are whips and whipbacks? (Sorry it's so short; I couldn't think of
anything else to say)



Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:37:53 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: drinking game

To all of you gymn-drinkers (soda too!)

Take a sip every time Elfi says, "Oh, what a HUGE mistake, that is just going
to just KILL her...she's out of the competiton.." (after a tiny wobble on

Take a sip every time Tim makes a comment about Kerri Strug not being able to
stick dismounts ("she just has to bend her knees...")

Take a sip every time Elfi says that a gymnast has brought back moves from
the seventies.....(?????)

Slam whatever you are drinking (make sure its strong) when either one of them
has something nice to say about Jennie Thompson (except her full on
beam).....non drinkers and underages  don't will never happen!

(who wishes she'd saved all of these so she can try them watching trials this


Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:41:11 -0600
Subject: WAG: Vaults

With the new code coming, anyone know what vaults will be devauled from a
10.0? Will teh Yurchenko 1 and 1/2 come down to a 9.9? Anyone know anything
about what will be 10.0 vaults next year? Are the days when gymnasts could
have two 10.0 vaults in final almost gone?


P.S. Someone inquired about Dina Kotchekova. Well, she hasn'tlived up to
her 1994 hype by winning alot of AA medals, but I can understand since she has
the 'Goodwill' curse- those who win it seldom win anything else! Luckily,
she was able to overcome it in San Juan and win the BB gold (well deserved-
not a gift by *ANY* means.) It would be nice to see her win a medal in
Atlanta (any color, any event), and it would be most impressive for her to
continue her training and competing and show up at the next Goodwill
in New York. That would make her the only (correct me if I am wrong!) WAG
to come back and defend a medal in the Goodwill Games.  She's great. Watch her. the other gymnasts do.


Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:15:30 -24000
From:    ***@USAID.GOV
Subject: Re: drinking game

I'm surprised no one's mentioned these.

If you see the following...

- a gymnast perform a double turn

- a gymnast perform three whips in a row

- a gymnast stick a landing

- Larissa Fontaine

..and Tim Daggett is commentating, go ahead and bring the cup to your lips,
because you are sure to hear the following:

- "...shades of Betty Okino..."

- "...shades of Kim Zmeskal..."

- "...gymnastics 101:  stick the landing."

- "...I've been screaming about this girl for years..."

Each one is a sip;  in combination with a "I gotta tell ya...", chug the
whole thing.


Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:13:40 +0000
From:    ***@IGC.APC.ORG
Subject: injuries/fractures/landings

Moceanu's situation has made me curious about stress
fractures--how they occur, what they look like, how they are
similar or different from acute fractures.   I have a general
idea, but would like to hear the technical details.  Relatedly,
they are often attributed to tough landings--what is happening,
physiologically speaking, in these landings that causes such
stress (pure impact? twisting?)?  What moves are the worst
offenders, if any?

Let's save for another day debates on overtraining.   For now,
I'm interested in the more technical stuff from people with some
expertise or experience in these areas  (Bill Sands, are you out there?)

--Mary Lynne


Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:28:49 -0400
From:    ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: TV Alerts for this coming week

I don't think pheobe, or hillary grivich made it to trials in diving.  I
looked at the trials results and didn't see their names among the

> All times Eastern.
> First an "unalert"; contrary to what I posted a couple of weeks ago,
> Wide World of Sports is apparently _NOT_ featuring gymnastics
> this coming Saturday, according to TV Guide.
> Fri. 6/28 8-10 p.m. Discovery Channel--repeat of "The Ultimate Athlete"
> Fri. 6/28 7:30-9 p.m. ESPN--US rhythmic gymnastics Olympic trials,
>      repeated Fri 6/28 11:30p.m.-1a.m. on ESPN2
> Also of possible interest this coming weekend:
> Sat. 6/22 and Sun. 6/23, 2-6 p.m. both days on NBC--combined coverage
>   of the U.S. Olympic trials in track and field and diving; does
>   anyone know if Phoebe Mills is competing?
> >>Kathy


Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:15:13 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Sea World

Was Kim Zmeskal in the Sea World show? Krista Quiner reported on this forum a
few months ago that Kim was considering working there this summer with her
good friend, Betty Okino.


Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:47:22 -0500
From:    ***@SCOTT.NET
Subject: Re: New book on Dominique Moceanu!

I saw the book in Barnes and Nobles over the I think that the
Novermber release is incorrect.


Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:54:23 -0600
From:    ***@SUPERNET.AB.CA
Subject: Re: drinking game

I think if we were playing this game for real....we would be very very drunk
after watching 5 competitions on tape!


>- "...shades of Betty Okino..."
>- "...shades of Kim Zmeskal..."
>- "...gymnastics 101:  stick the landing."
>- "...I've been screaming about this girl for years..."
>Each one is a sip;  in combination with a "I gotta tell ya...", chug the
>whole thing.


Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:02:51 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: +Defending Goodwill Champs

        Although yes, Dina would be the first women's AA champ to try to
defend her title, Chusovitina won V in 1990 and also competed at Goodwill
in 1994 (where she placed, if I'm not mistaken, fifth on vault).


Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:34:51 EDT
Subject: get together of forum subscribers at US Trials

Hello to all,

Thanks to all those who responded to the suggestion of getting together for
lunch during the Trials. If anyone else is interested in meeting with us, here
is the information.

 I think the easiest place to meet would
be a restaurant right in the same building as the Fleet Center.

The restaurant is called the Sports Cafe.  It's on the ground floor
of the building, right next to the main Entrance to the Fleet Center
on Causeway (the name of the street).  The restaurant isn't anything
fancy, just burgers and salads, but it is large and again, unlike
most restaurants in the area, easy to find.

Since the men's optionals start at 2: 45 on Saturday (new time), how
about if we meet at 12: 30 for lunch?

Hope to see you there.



Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:37:40 EDT
Subject: Newspaper articles on gymnasts

Hello to all,

In anticipation of the Trials, my local newspapers in Chicago (Daily Herald and
Tribune) have been running articles on some of the American hopefuls. There have
been articles on Jenni Thompson, Kerri Strug, and Blaine Wilson. These articles
are pretty generic, but nice to see some coverage of our athletes.

If anyone wants a copy of these articles, let me know and I can send you
photocopies via snail mail.



Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:49:31 -0400
From:    ***@INETNOW.NET
Subject: Re: Nadia

When I heard that post about Nadia Comeneci being rude and dismissive
towards her adoring fans in whatever mall that was, I WAS NOT SURPRISED ONE
IOTA!!!!! She has been in Atlanta several times recently. Mostly doing
self-promotions (like all celebrities, and "legends"- all about me, me, me).
She was supposed to be the Lenox Square mall, at some sports store, a while
back, "signing autographs". I had some free time that day, and I was
actually stupid enough to go down there to see this woman. Who is she any
way? I need my head examined.

She was supposed to appear at 2 pm. I got there at 2:15. There was a line of
people waiting to see her. I decided to get a soda and come back to the
store and wait for her. Soon, it was 3:00. No Nadia. At this point, I said
to some other people waiting in line with me, "hey guys, forget it. I'm not
waiting to the end of eternity to see this woman. She isn't the president."
I left. What happened? The store never explained anything. No explanations
of any kind.

And now this woman blows off a crowd in another city? I am so SICK of these
professional athletes. And these big headed celebrities. SICK OF THEM. Who
in the hell are they? From all sports. The minute they achieve the SLIGHTEST
little goal, they get the big head. Hit a homerun, get the big head, score a
touchdown, get the big head, just get on a pro team, get the big head!!!!!
We ought to ignore all of these filthy pigs.

I remember back in February, Shannon MIller was supposed to competition in
the Kodak invitational in Atlanta. There was an ad int he paper advertising
it. Revco (Mary Lou's people) even pumped it up. They were giving away
gymnastics posters if you bought 2 rolls of Kodak film. Well, the tickets
were $12 general admission, but if you had a coupon from Revco, the seats
were $8. I went to Revco and paid $8 for my ticket at the box office. I went
inside the Omni, like everybody else. I knew something was strange when I
saw all of these little kids out on the floor "warming up" (playing around
is more like it). These girls were giggling and running around, eating junk
food, just plain having a good time, which is fine with me. But I didn't pay
$8 to see little girls play. The rhythmic NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS were only
$4. I can see little kids run around and play for free.

So, finally after the competition starts, about 2 hours later, we see
Shannon Miller. She is moping around  with a clipboard in her hand,
following the Dynamo team around, "helping keep score", as the paper put it
(as if the judges can't do it by themselves). At this point, the spectators,
all of whom were wondering, "where is Shannon" (that's who we came to see),
saw her on the floor. She never even looked up at the crowd. Not one time.
She looked like she didn't even care. We were never told at the Omni why she
didn't compete. But the next day, the paper said she had sore wrist.
Ohhhhhh. Poor little girl (Uh, uh, this woman is 19). A sore wrist. Yet the
next day she was in great shape to sign autographs, with that same sore
wrist, for a pocket of full money. MARTA paid her big time to do some
promotion for them. She went to a MARTA station and signed a few autographs
(in the middle of the day, when everybody was at work and school), and MARTA
lined her pockets good.

The fans at Omni should have raised hell. The papers should have read "Angry
gymnastics fans filled Omni with boos". The Kodak invitational was a farce.
It was just a showcase for Dynamo gymnastics and to sell tickets. I should
have kicked Steve Nunno's behind and made him give me my money back. Little
kids were crying because Shannon wasn't competing. Parents and other fans
were angry and concerned. I left early. I got tired of seeing little 5 year
olds fiddling and fumbling around,  pretending to be at a gymnastics
competition. And Shannon Miller was supposed to "compete" against these
kids. The great Shannon Miller. America's most decorated gymnast, going to
"compete" against  these kids? Shannon Miller, former Olympian, winner of 5
medals at the 1992 olympics in Barcelona, TWICE the age of most of the other
"competitors", was actually going to go up against them? I can only imagine,
that if Shannon had actually competed, the pressure she would have been
under. Her knees must have been shaking. Shannon Miller was NEVER going to
participate (not in any real, meaningful fashion) in the Kodak Invitational.
How could she "compete" against people who were nowhere even near to being
in her league? This whole thing was just a plot to sell tickets.

We deserve better than this. This gymnasts are paid a pretty decent amount
by USA gymnastics to be a part of the national team. $15,000 a year (a
"training" stipend) isn't chump change. These athletes are getting
endorsements, corporate sponsorships, the whole nine yards. And almost all
of them have agents!!!!!!!!!! And to think, I thought some of these people
were suffering. They have it made. The least they should do is explain to a
crowd, when a star is a advertised to compete or appear, why they can't do
so. They get a do a little ad somewhere, or win some medal, and all of a
sudden, they are better than the rest of us. And don't become "legend" like
Nadia.  We are "the little people". These people are NO different than these
other professional athletes. I am sick of them. And to see people like Nadia
Comeneci run around with her nose tooted up in the air, is too much (that
mess in Romania was a fiasco).  I am restraining myself. I am not saying
what is really on my mind. I know there maybe children in the room.

This has happened repeatedly. Dominque Dawes was scheduled to do a clinic in
Atlanta a while back, and she never showed up. I heard that the people
waited, and waited, and waited. The people were finally told, by way of the
newspaper (as always), that Dominique Dawes decided not to come and stay
home and train  (Not the olympics or nationals, mind you). I guess she was
getting on the job training to be a iron worker that day she missed from the
scheduled gym clinic.

All of this, has diminished my view of gymnasts and gymnastics. Also, my
experience here has made me feel differently about the people involved in
this sport. These forum is supposedly frequented athletes, fans,  coaches,
and "gym insiders" (judges, people at USA gymnastics and their "friends").
Some of my worse experiences on the internet came right here. Back in April,
because of the fact that I mentioned that Dominique Moceanu maybe be getting
burned out), I received over 70 hate filled e-mail messages and a death
threat, over a 2 week period. I was publicly and personally attacked and
maligned. All for speaking the truth and having a little sympathy for this
14 year old young woman.

What I want to know is, why do some people involved gymnastics seem to be
the most hateful, vindicative, selfish, greedy, insensitive, closed-minded,
heartless people on the planet earth? I have personally experienced the
presence of these people. And so have many, many others. I have heard
countless stories of these "big-time" athletes thumbing their noses at the
public. People come up to some of them, humble and bowing, as if in the
presence of Gandhi, or something, beg for a little autograph, and get blown
off. I once met James Brown in the lobby of the Omni hotel. He gave me and
my co-worker his personalized autograph, with a smile, and a nice little
talk.The godfather of soul, a kind human being. Some punk gets on TV, and
now he is stepping on people's shoes. People are getting spat at in airports
by "good girls". And no, it was not me. I wasn't in Knoxville. I have heard
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of stories about how people sent messages
of love and support (called fan mail) to athletes, never to receive ANY kind
of response.

I KNOW from a VERY RELIABLE source, and FRIEND, that all mail (the way USA
gymnastics wants you to send mail to an athlete) sent to a certain gymnast
automatically dumped in the trash, UNOPENED. The people at the post office
know that any mail address to so-and-so at so-and-so address, is junk, so
you might as well throw it away. Why should the postman even waste his time
sorting that mess when the people at so-and-so will just throw it in the
dumpster the minute the postman pulls off. This mess on the USA gymnastics
WWW page about e-mailing "your favorite" gymnast is an obscene joke. Even
they know that all of the "letters" will be dumped by the file server at
whatever internet provider all of this stuff is supposed to be on. None of
this "letters" will ever be seen by human eyes. Why play with people? . What
must the little kids be thinking? "I wrote to my hero, and he/she never
THAT THEY WILL----  DON'T IMPLY IT. Don't lead little kids on. Or big ones.

Some of these people are unbelievable. I just don't see how insensitive some
people can be. I don't think a professional athlete could ever be a hero to
me. Especially not these big-headed ones. I guarantee you that come July
20th, there is going to be some people floating in the rafters at the GA
dome. Heads so big. Like little parade balloons.You think the little blimp
they fly around at Falcons games, is something, look at these big-headed
athletes. The Goodyear blimp is party balloon in comparison. I am going to
be in there with a BB gun, shooting down those hot air bags, like if I were
skeet shooting.



Date:    Wed, 26 Jun 1996 21:08:45 -0600
Subject: Tickets to Atlanta

Anyone interested in a ticket to women's team optionals and team finals on
July 23rd (artistic of course!)?  I have a friend who has an extra ticket.
She is selling it at cost.  It is an 'A" level ticket.  If you or anyone you
know is interested please e-mail me privately at ""
Include a number where you can be reached to arrange pick up.  Thanks.


Date:    Thu, 27 Jun 1996 01:27:27 -0400
From:    ***@POND.COM
Subject: Don't tell me I missed OT!!!

I wanted to know if I missed the Olympic Trials for the women on NBC...I
haven't really been paying attention - plus I really don't have the time to
watch it.  Could someone please e-mail me at  Thanx alot


End of GYMN-L Digest - 26 Jun 1996 to 27 Jun 1996