GYMN-L Digest - 25 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 15 messages totalling 602 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. The other Dominique ...  Dawes!
  2. NBC coverage
  3. Oops!  Sorry!
  4. Women's AA line-up, from one of the Web sites
  5. Gymn-related tidbits from this morning's Today show
  6. Russians (2)
  7. NBC: Comments
  8. Tousek comments on the GD crowd / AA order
  9. Coverage and crowd...
 10. Unsub; Notes from Atlanta
 11. Men's AA comment (Spoiler)
 12. Post Olympic Tour
 13. Pointless Footage
 14. Not about the Olympics


Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:09:55 -0400
From:    ***@GOOFY.UMD.EDU
Subject: The other Dominique ...  Dawes!


As many of you know, my daughter, Erin, trains at Hill's Gymnastics.  I
therefore get to see Dominique Dawes more often then most.  Naturally, I'm
one of Dominique's biggest supporters as Dom is one of the nicest people that
I've met in the sport.  (One of the other being Larissa Fontaine.)  So if
the following seems a bit biases...  well, I hope you understand.

End Preface...

Lost in Kerri's vault situation was the fact that Dominique had, not only
the best AA Score for the American team, but also the second best AA score of
the optional competition, Pod having the highest.  For those of us who know
Dom, this is not surprising as optionals is where she really shines.

If she performs as well today as she did during the team competition don't
be surprised if she medals...  and a gold is not out of the question.

I hope so, because perhaps then she'll get the press that she deserves.

By the way, has anyone else noticed how Kelli Hill and the other coaches
stand behind the wall giving encouragment, but letting the athletes have the
limelight?  The same can be said for both Marta and Mary Lee, both of whom I
think have done a *great* job.  While I admire Bela, I wish NBC would spend
less time covering him.  Steve Nuno??  My mom always said that if you can't
say something nice about a person, don't say anything at all :-)


Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:14:06 -0400
From:    ***@CS.PITT.EDU
Subject: NBC coverage

Since NBC seems to be monitoring this conversation, I think it gives us
all a great opportunity to make constructive suggestions for coverage of
the 2000 Olympics. For example:

1. Many of the personal stories are interesting - but they do take a lot
of time away from the competition - perhaps NBC could start a weekly
program in the months before the Olympics to show these pieces. It would
help to educate the TV viewers about what we are going to see. Perhaps
these pieces could also cover some of the technical aspects of the
sport. (This might also be beneficial to some of the commentators!)
It would also give those of us who are eagerly awaiting the games
something substantial to watch - I for one really enjoyed the History
Channel shows presented the week before the games.

2. I am very envious of those who get to see coverage without
commercials! Perhaps NBC could provide us with a similar experience by
having sponsoring companies underwrite hours of presentation. There
could be commercials at the beginning of the hour and the company logo
could appear in the corner of the screen during the underwritten hour.

3. Both of these suggestions would give NBC more time for airing the
actual competition - and so we would get to see more athletes -
particularly those from other countries! Since the USA is physically
isolated from much of the rest of the world, for many of us TV is our
way of seeing the world and in the past the Olympics have really helped
to open a window on the rest of the world. National pride is great, but
international understanding is what will lead to world peace! (In this
same vein - I am looking forward to tonight's competition so that I can
see other athletes - hopefully that will happen!)

QUESTION: Does anyone have a list of which women will be competing in
the all around tonight?

Thanks! Tia


Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:22:16 -0400
From:    ***@FLX.COM
Subject: Oops!  Sorry!

I made a mistake in my recent reply -- and everyone got the entire
digest.  Please accept my sincere apology -- and refrain from flaming.
I'm new. Thanks!


Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:40:56 EDT
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Women's AA line-up, from one of the Web sites

I got this info from, and offer it
only for what it's worth.  They still listed Strug, so I took the
liberty of replacing her name with Moceanu's.  The competition will
start at about 4:30 this afternoon (Eastern), so avoid your evening
news if you don't want to learn the results before the broadcast!

Starting on  Vault

      SUGAWARA, Risa          Japan[JPN]
      PISKUN, Yelena          Belarus[BLR]
      PODKOPAYEVA, Lilia      Ukraine[UKR]
      ZELEPOUKINA, Svetlana   Ukraine[UKR]
      FURNON, Ludivine        France[FRA]
      MO, Huilan              People's Republic of China[CHN]
      TEZA, Elvire            France[FRA]
      MILOSOVICI, Lavinia     Romania[ROM]
      PACHECO, Mercedes       Spain[ESP]

Starting on Uneven Bars

      MARINESCU, Alexandra   Romania[ROM]
      KOCHETKOVA, Dina       Russian Federation[RUS]
      HUGHES, Joanna         Australia[AUS]
      ROCCHI, Giordana       Italy[ITA]
      GOGEAN, Gina           Romania[ROM]
      MILLER, Shannon        United States of America[USA]
      KRAUSZ, Nikolett       Hungary[HUN]
      DAWES, Dominique       United States of America[USA]
      TOUSEK, Yvonne         Canada[CAN]

Starting on Balance Beam

      MOCEANU, Dominique      United States of America[USA]
      NYESTE, Adrienn         Hungary[HUN]
      CHORKINA, Svetlana      Russian Federation[RUS]
      MARTIN, Monica          Spain[ESP]
      QIAO, Ya                People's Republic of China[CHN]
      GALIYEVA, Rozalia       Russian Federation[RUS]
      MONIZ, Ruth             Australia[AUS]
      SEVERINO, Isabelle      France[FRA]
      POLOZKOVA, Alena        Belarus[BLR]

Starting on Floor Exercise

      MAO, Yanling            People's Republic of China[CHN]
      TSAVDARIDOU, Vasiliki   Greece[GRE]
      CHOUSOVITINA, Oksana    Uzbekistan[UZB]
      DZYUNDZYAK, Anastasia   Uzbekistan[UZB]
      VARGA, Adrienn          Hungary[HUN]
      SHEREMETA, Lioubov      Ukraine[UKR]
      SKINNER, Lisa           Australia[AUS]
      JUAREZ, Joana           Spain[ESP]
      BOGUINSKAIA, Svetlana   Belarus[BLR]



Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:52:08 EDT
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Gymn-related tidbits from this morning's Today show

On this (Thursday) morning's today show:

An interview with Strug's parents.  She's still hoping to compete event
finals, although dad noted that the two events she qualified for
(FX and V) "have a lot of tumbling" and will thus be especially
hard on the ankle.  Asked about what they were thinking when Kerri
went for her second vault, they said that there wasn't much time
to react, but that she'd done what any athlete would have in
her position.  Later, there was a brief interview with Strug's
doctor at the hospital; he thinks she'll compete.

Later, an interview with Mary Lou Retton.  Asked about Strug,
she was very happy that Kerri had finally her time to shine,
and added that she and, she guessed, "every other athlete on
the floor" would have gone for the second vault.  Asked about
the is-this-child-abuse issue, she categorically denied it.  "No one
can make you train 8 hours a day if you don't want to."
The girls may look small and fragile, but they are some of
the toughest athletes in the world--they want to compete and win.
As for the crowd/competition pressure, she believes it helps,
giving the athletes motivation and energy to feed off of.

Finally, a humorous piece with Bart Conner doing a dive roll
over a vaulting horse (oriented crosswise, as for the women).
Asked about the competition so far, he first said how pleased
he was with the top-10 finish for Roethlisberger and Wilson,
and then praised the US women's team, especially Strug--her vault
"the defining moment of the Games so far."  He also mentioned
that it was great for US gymnastics, and him in particular,
because now thousands of little girls will flood gymn
schools (including his), hoping to be the next Kerri Strug.

Note:  Apparently, the NBC news this evening will feature
a piece on the is-this-child-abuse issue.



Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:26:46 -0600
From:    ***@MARCELINE.K12.MO.US
Subject: Russians

To tell the truth, I'm sick of the Russians whining about the screaming
Americans hurting their performance.  I'm almost positive that when I
watched coverage of the 1994 Goodwill Games in Russia, Steve Nunno wasn't
complaining about all the screaming Russians.  Some people do say, however,
that the Russians won in '94 because of the homefield advantage, but to
tell the truth, I think they just did better than everyone else. Just my


Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:33:01 PDT
From:    ***@POP.NET
Subject: NBC: Comments

I understand that NBC has to concern itself with attracting the largest=20
viewing audience possible given the sum of money it has paid to cover the=
games and the expectations of its advertisers. I understand that its targ=
et =20
audience is Americans, and I understand that NBC believes Americans want =
see Americans perform, but I do not think that showing routines by gymnas=
from other countries is counter to its aims.

Real drama in the long run is more sustainable than false drama. NBC has=20
erred, in my opinion, on the side of creating false drama. Of course NBC=20
knew that the U.S. had won the gold medal without Kerri=92s vault. Of cou=
NBC knew that the leads enjoyed by Russian men=92s team and the U.S. wome=
team were fairly impressive and that these teams had their medals secured=
barring any major accident. But rather than convey what was happening=20
honestly, it erred on the side of building drama. Perhaps, if NBC had sho=
more routines by gymnasts from other countries, other, real dramas with n=
less appeal would have become obvious. Although I have been a long standi=
fan of the Russian and Romanian gymnasts, I found the footage of the Russ=
and Romanian gymnasts crying to be funny. It was so incongruous to see th=
gymnasts crying. Had we seen their struggles, their great routines, and=20
their setbacks, we would have shared these emotions and that moment with =
gymnasts. How could we empathize with these unknown athletes who had done=
something we knew nothing about? Maybe we could have felt even more pride=
the U.S. team=92s accomplishments, if we had seen the adversaries.

Maybe NBC considers American dramas worth more than any non-U.S. drama. B=
what kind of viewership would NBC have had now, if ABC had focused on the=
U.S. women in 1972 and not allowed us to see Olga Korbut? Think of all th=
increased attention that Nadia has brought the sport. What if we had not=20
seen Nadia=92s first Olympic compulsory bar routine because ABC had been=20
focusing on the U.S. team? Yes, ABC would have temporarily satisfied what=
believed the viewers wanted, but the sport, viewership (and yes, revenues=
in the long run would have suffered


Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:40:34 -0400
Subject: Tousek comments on the GD crowd / AA order

Yvonne Tousek was interviewed in the CBC studio by Ron McLean yesterday.
Here is what she had to say about the audience in the Georgia Dome.

RM:  "In the compulsories, you were on at the same time as the Americans. I
can't imagine what it's like at the Georgia Dome, but give us a sense of
what it's like."

YT: "It was really wild competing with the Americans because the crowd was
just completely supportive of them, and it was pretty loud in there at
times.  And a lot of times, it was really difficult to concentrate.  But I
think all the Canadians did our best to focus on our routines and I think
it helped us to stay clean and do good routines."

Yvonne starts on bars in the AA finals this afternoon.  She goes up last in
a group that includes Alexandra Marinescu, Dina Kochetkova, Joanna Hughes,
Gina Gogean, Shannon Miller, and Dominique Dawes.  This is going to be
amazing as these ladies end on vault (for Miller AGAIN!).  What a draw!
Piskun, Pod, Furnon, Mo, Tez, & Milo compete Olympic order (start on
vault).  Moceanu starts 1st up on beam and is in with Khorkina & Galieva.
Chusovitina and Bogi start on floor.

Have a good evening ladies!




Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 10:40:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Coverage and crowd...

Hello, all...

> noticed this degree of bias in any other sport in Atlanta so far and I think
> all that the predominantly American crowd in the Georgia dome have done so
> far is to show themselves up to be completely ignorant. From the other

I really cannot beleive this...showed ourselves up to be completely
ignorant??? an earlier post mentioned, the crowd cheered
on other teams as well as the Amerrican team with full gusto. Just don't
try to insinuate that just because the Americans cheer on their own team
slightly more (major concept there) that they are "ignorant."

--Michael :)


Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 12:49:54 +0000
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Unsub; Notes from Atlanta

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Re crowds in Atlanta -- I agree, it is very unfortunate that other teams in
the women's final went unrecognized.  I do want to point out, though, that
with the USA women on a roll, it took a lot of discipline to watch other
countries.  When the crowds know little or nothing about the other gymnasts,
with four events at once, and one USA girl up after another, it really is
very hard to know that the great Khorkina is about to mount bars (btw-what a
cool transition from low to high!), when you're watching Miller on beam. (I
do not know that these two gymnasts competed simultaneously, but that is an
adequate example.)

In the men's team final, Russia was well appreciated by the entire crowd. In
the men's all-around final, Li Xiaoshuang immediately received a sincere
standing ovation as soon as the result was clear.  With only three USA women
to track in the all-around finals tonight, I am sure that the crowd will
suddenly wake up to the other gymnasts on the floor.

Some notes on crowds in other countries... I've read interviews or spoken
with gymnasts who have experienced crowds far worse.  In some countries, the
entire crowd laughs at a gymnast when they fall from the beam.  I remember
hearing stories from Pan American Games where crowds not only booed and
jeered American gymnasts, but threw empty coke cans and other objects at the
apparatus -- when the gymnasts were performing!

All that said, Worlds next year are in Switzerland, one of the most neutral
of countries in history, although that might change when everyone is handed
a cowbell as they enter the arena.  =)  For those who haven't attended an
international meet with swiss gymnasts competing, each time that the
gymnasts lands a dismount, the swiss cheering section breaks out in huge
cheers, enormous flag waving, and clanking cowbells... although I haven't
seen any of that here.  =(


Other notes:

Simona Amanar (ROM) scored the highest optional total of all gymnasts;
however, her fall from compulsory beam places her fourth on the Romanian
team.  (As a result, Dawes is the leading optional gymnast entering the
all-around finals.)  Amanar is the top qualifier on vault and bars.

The highest score was a 9.887, earned by Amanar on floor and Kui Yuanyuan on
beam.  Kui does not advance to beam finals due to her fall on compulsory

Pae Gil Su (KOR) did not qualify for pommel horse finals... apparently during
optionals, after he scored a 9.775 (5th highest optional), he was so upset
that his score was not higher that he left the building and did not compete
on his last event, rings.  He did not qualify due to a low 9.462 in
compulsories, which many felt was significantly underscored.

John Roethlisberger tied Nemov and Wecker for the highest optional score on
high bar, but Roethlisberger did not make it to high bar finals (tied for
9th).  Roethlisberger was close on several events: 10th on floor, 11th on
rings, 13th on pbars (which is closer than it sounds because several guys
above him are eliminated due to the 2/country rule).



Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 11:38:50 -0700
From:    ***@EFN.ORG
Subject: Men's AA comment (Spoiler)

 Don't read this if you don't already know the Men's AA results!

I just wanted to say that I was very offended by the question Beth
Ruyiack of NBC asked Vitaly Sherbo after the competition.
"Did you keep the promise you made to your wife?"

Well, Beth, obviously not, as you should know.  John Tesh must have said
50 times during the men's coverage over the last three days that Vitaly
promised his wife he would come back and win the gold for her.  He
didn't.  It was a sad moment for him.  I'm sure his wife doesn't love him
any less, and I'm sure she knows that many factors would be out of
Vitaly's control and that he could only do his best.  But really Beth,
did you have to go and remind him of that right now???

Vitaly, to his credit, was very gracious.  He explained that he had
really promised just to do his best and that he hoped that would equal
gold.  He then sent his love to his wife and signed off.  It took a
pretty big man not to get angry at her.  Heavans, *I* wanted to slap her!

Just my read on it,



Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:47:54 -0400
Subject: Post Olympic Tour

Someone posted the Post-Olympic tour schedule (cities, dates, and arenas).
I printed it out and deleted the message.  I lost my printed copy.  Could
someone please post it again or privately forward a copy to me?  I would
appreciate it very much.  Also if anyone can direct me to a spot on the web
that gives this information, that would be great too!

IMO - Amanda is still my favorite gymnast (though I think the world of all
of them).  Like the majority, she played a major role in the morale of the
team.  I do appreciate Kerri much more than I used to.  Her dream in '92 was
to qualify for the AA.  She didn't make it then and hung around four more
years to pursue that dream.  Even though she won't compete, I am happy she
reached her goal of "qualifying" for the AA finals.  I know it's not the
same as actually competing, but I hope she realizes how successful she was
and a key player in gymnastics history she truly was/is!
The early bird cathces the worm--no one throws it up in his nest



Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:49:34 -0400
From:    ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Russians

What screaming Russians at the Goodwill games? All 50 of them? :)

On the crowd situation...look, I guess the American crowd is loud
and very into it's own team, but heck, that is what home crowds do.
This crowd was no worse than anyof the recent women's NCAA championships.
On THAt thread, take a look at how teams have done with the crowd
screaming its brains out. In 1995, UCLA compiled the highest beam total
of the night with georgia nailing vaults in one VERY loud crowd response,
and at the last two, Michigan has been on beam with the home team
on floor (and nailing floor) and hasn't counted a mistake.

To me, it just seems like a cop-out. I think loud, enthusiastic
crowds are a fun part of the sport, and can be adjusted to accordingly.

BTW, I've only heard second hand what happen in Moscow, but their
crowd was obnoxious, rude, and anti-everyone but Russia (sorry, USSR).
the American crowd has only been enthusiastic.

Now, can we move on? There's plenty beyond the crowd to talk about.


Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 13:48:10 -0500
From:    ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: Pointless Footage

I get the feeling they focus on the gymnasts who have just competed
instead of showing another routine is they want to get their recations to
the scores.  Problem is that, atleast with the American girls, they've
seemed to learn to ignore the scores or so they claim.  Both Shannon and
Jaycie seemed to have no clue about they're placements at nationals when
interviewed.  Unlike figure skating there is not kiss and cry so they try
to do this to get the same effect.  It's about time they learned it
doesn't really work!

Does anyone know what Jaycie's plans are for the future?  Is she going to
retire, keep up gymnastics and go for the NCAA, or possibly try for
another Olympics.  What made the team so great this year was the
experience that comes with age.  Problem is that after you have an old
team there are not very many people who will be veterans next time
around.  Shannon and Dom Dawes, did it at 19 ... maybe jaycie will push
it to 20? I really like her a lot and don't want her to be forgotten
because she was the only one eligible for the all around that didn't make
it. (I'm considering that Strug, Dawes, Miller, and Moceanu all made it
since Kerri did but won't compete thus Moceanu got it)

Yesterday the Montreal Gazette said Yvonne Tousek failed to qualify
because she placed 39th.  Now at least three gymnasts finishing ahead of
her had to have been 4th on their team thus making room for her to make
it.  Is she competing or not?

I think Amanda would make a great replacement for Elfie for Sydney 2000.
She's had some experience doing broadcasting and I think there should
really be people doing the communtery who have some what contemporaries
of the gymnasts actually competing.  I think Summer Saunders is going a
good job with swimming as she had competed with a lot of the swimmers in
1992 and tried to make the games this year so the people she in
commentating on are her friends and teammates.  As a result she is being
fairly sesitive and also able to talk to them and get some honest
recations.  I don't think Elfie and Tim (and of course not John Tesh) are
in the position to have relationships with the people they are covering.


Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 14:48:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Not about the Olympics

On Thu, 25 Jul 1996, Trinity wrote:

> Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would help me with getting my
> full? I'm just a young gymnast, tumbler mostly, and a full is what I'm
> really lacking. My coach has been trying to help me, but I just can't seem
> to pick up on it. Could someone who can do a pretty good one explain it to me?


It would help if you could explain to us what happens when you
try to throw a full.  How do you land?  WHat are you looking at
throughout the skill?  Where does the skill start to go wrong
for you?



End of GYMN-L Digest - 25 Jul 1996 - Special issue