GYMN-L Digest - 24 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 21 messages totalling 662 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. The crowd at Georgia Dome
  2. Rotation (2)
  3. Non-gymn fanatics perspectives (long)
  4. Unsung...
  5. The crowd at Georgia Dome (fwd)
  6. results request
  7. OZ report
  8. US Men
  9. GYMN-L Digest - 24 Jul 1996 - Special issue
 10. Day and Date (2)
 11. Look at Borden
 12. If I hear one more complaint about NBC....!
 13. gym crowd makes OZ national news!
 14. fan nuttiness....
 15. The crowd
 16. Dom and Kerri's scores
 17. chinese women
 18. Strug Floor score??????
 19. Alot of follow up.


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 14:51:29 -0500
Subject: Re: The crowd at Georgia Dome

I just wanted to say that I, too, am disgusted with the crowd at the
Georgia Dome and with NBC for turning this into the "go USA" show.
Whatever happened to the Olympic spirit?

As for Kerri, WOW!  I am _so_ impressed.  I really hope (but doubt) that
she'll be okay for tomorrow.



Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:00:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Rotation

The US has seemed to thrive on the rotation order of bars first and
vault last--the most memorable (before now) being 1991 Worlds.


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:50:11 +0000
From:    ***@IGC.APC.ORG
Subject: Non-gymn fanatics perspectives (long)

Unprompted  remarks from complete strangers to our sport:

Man, Texas:  "You could really see the difference in maturity between
Dominique Dawes and Shannon Miller and others on the floor.  The older
ones just look better, how they carry their body, and dance.  For Moceanu,
it worked fine because she's tiny and cute and that's great music, but the
others look a little silly."

Woman, New York: "I used to be an Olympic junkie, and I swear I have
never seen such one-sided coverage.  Hey man, I want to see routines,
not real-time shots of girls stuffing their gym bags and looking anxious.
I know they're anxious, so while we wait, why not show a routine?  And then,
that story on the Chinese girl Mo, I thought, cool, I'm gonna learn about her
and instead I get a mediation on mountains.  I know from mountains; I'm watching
the Olympics to check out the sport."

Man, SF: "I don't remember the coverage ever being this bad.  It's
like it wasn't even a competition--I don't know what they were up
against.  I mean, for our generation, you can't have gymnastics
without Russia...   You woulda thought they'd hoist Kerri on their shoulders
after what she did, and put her in the center on the stand, and instead they
left her standing on the podium...." [NB: I had to point out that this was
the most team spirit we've ever seen]

Lots of people: "You're right about John Tesh, but why didn't you
warn me about the other guy too?"   ["dancing little girls"....old
enough to fight for your country,  John, among other things]

BTW, gymners, our fave Joan Ryan wrote some very good front page stories
for the SF Chronicle on Kerri/the team.

--Mary Lynne (Kerri rules).


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:19:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Unsung...

Jaycie anyone?  She did great.  Lead-off on every event except beam (2nd
up).  She could've complained that she should not have been lead-off
since she was a close 2nd in US Championships, but instead she really
helped the team so much more than people realize.  And talk about a good
captain--Borden should stick around just for that role!  Both Amanda and
Jaycie were the biggest fans and most ardent supporters of the other US
athletes.  I'm very proud of them both.


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:19:05 EDT
From:    ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: The crowd at Georgia Dome (fwd)

Ilene said:

>I just wanted to say that I, too, am disgusted with the crowd at the
>Georgia Dome and with NBC for turning this into the "go USA" show.
>Whatever happened to the Olympic spirit?

I'm sorry to say the Olympic spirit ends about 1 second after the end
of the Closing Ceremonies and everyone is very naive to think otherwise.



Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:54:55 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: results request

>Vault Finals Qualifiers:
>1.  Amanar
>2.  Gogean
>3.  Mo
>4.  Strug
>5.  Galiyeva
>6.  Grosheva
>7.  Dawes
>8.  Boginskya
>Uneven Bars Qualifiers:
>1.  Amanar
>2.  Khorkina
>3.  Pod
>4.  Dina K.
>5.  Dawes
>6.  Chow
>7.  Milo
>8.  Wenjing
>Balance Beam Qualifiers:
>1.  Miller
>2.  Moceanu
>3.  Dina K.
>4.  Pod
>5.  Galiyeva
>6.  Gegean
>7.  Milo
>8.  someone from UKR
I was really hoping to see Kuy Yuanyuan on this event.  Her routine is
really phenominal and she got a good score (over a 9.8) in the optionals.
She must have missed in the compulsories.  Same with Elvere Teza
of France.  Actually, I'm dissappointed to see that none of the French
girls have qualified for event finals.

>Floor Qualifiers:
>1.  Strug
>2.  Pod
>3.  Amanar
>4.  Moceanu
>5.  Liya
>6.  Gogean
>7.  Mo
>8.  Grosheva
Does anybody know who would replace Strug, assuming she is
unable to compete?

Are these right?  Someone else posted some results that were much
different than these, but these ones look more accurate than the others.

Also, does anybody have the qualifying results for the men or know
where to find them?


Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 05:54:57 +1000
From:    ***@JCU.EDU.AU
Subject: OZ report

Firstly, on the news they said Joanna Hughes, Lisa Moro and Lisa Monitz
had made it to the AA, sorry have had no news on the men.
Great to see Joanna finally have her day. For those of you who don't know
her story Ill recap - Joanna made the Worlds team for OZ in 91 where she
finished 19th in the AA and helped the team move from 16th to 6th in the
world, she was 13 at the time. The following year, she was picked for
Barcelona but just before the team left she injured her elbow and had to
watch from home. She had other injuries in the next couple of years but
battled on to make the 94 Worlds squad for Brisbane. At this comp she
became only the second Aussie to qualify for EF;s (on the floor ex) During
the AA she sprained her ankle severly (it required surgery) and lost the
chance to compete in the Floor final. She was selected for the 94
Commonwealth games and competed with watered down routines to help the
team. This year she is at Atlanta, and has even made the AA, just another
role model with a story to tell, I hope she will get some audience
reaction to her performances! I believe she will retire after the games.



Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:57:39 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: US Men

The shirt patrol is hard at work again.  The US Men, after their outstanding
performance at the OG, were the guests of honor at a party given by Bruce
Willis and Demi Moore.  What did they do--of course!  They removed their
shirts to the delight of the party guests.  Of course it's ironic that John
R. continued his whining about lack of respect as serious athletes at the
same time he "lowered" himself to the rank of "object of desire" <choak, gag,

He seems to want to eat his cake and have it too.


How is it that I always seem to come across the men when they're half naked?


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 21:58:10 +0200
From:    ***@XS4ALL.NL
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 24 Jul 1996 - Special issue

>Subject: NBC versus the BBC
>What do the other British subscribers to this list think?
I live in Holland and can watch the BBC as well as ARD (Germany) and BRT
(Belgium) as well as our Durch NOS.

Only the BBC gave us (almost) live coverage of the four groups. I missed the
transmission during the afternoon, but recorded almost three hours later in
the evening.

I think the BBC coverage was excellent. Professional commentary by a three
person crew and those nice little VR scenes.

I was saddened to see the Russian and Romanian girls weep after their
magnificent performances. For what I have seen of it they were equal to Team
USA, bur only for that crowd....



Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:01:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Day and Date

Looks like the day and date will be showing the "darker side of the
sport".  i just started watching and so far all they are doing is
showing kerri's story..but now they're doing something when they're
going to go to the negative...i'll stry to tell y'all what happens...


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:44:34 -0500
From:    ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: Look at Borden

Yes, look at Amanda Borden!

The greatest team captain for the women's Olympic group ever... It
couldn't have been any better choice, so I wasn't surprised that she
was appointed.  What a nice honor for her!  This wonderfully-written
article about her being the captain is quite inspiring.  Look up in
ESPNET SportZone:1996 Olymics Gymnastics under


You could see on TV her acting like a mother hen to her team; she was
always coming to the girls & hugging 'em & cheering 'em on.  Normally,
I don't write fan mail, but I'm gonna send "3 cheers" to her for sure.
Hats off to Amanda Borden!!

USA is Golden #1!!

Just flippin'!,


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:11:39 -0400
From:    ***@SPARKY.CS.NYU.EDU
Subject: Re: If I hear one more complaint about NBC....!

On Wed, 24 Jul 1996, Mark wrote:

> No, and gymnastics is not an exception.  The majority of the people watching
> in the US are not familiar with the world's gymnasts and therefore are not
> willing to watch non-Americans.

Where do you get this idea?  The country has been captivated in the past
by such athletes as Olga, Nadia, Scherbo, Boginskaya... My
non-gymn-watching friends keep asking me where the "other countries" are.

>We all have to understand the aspect of
> interest for NBC, which is the American gymnasts.

I do understand:  NBC's coverage is incompetent, and characterized by smug
ignorance.  The NYTimes called it partisan and jingoistic.  It is inferior
to coverage provided by the other networks.  I have never before watched
an event where the gold, silver, and bronze medal teams were edited out,
as in the coverage of men's, or seen a network cover women's gymn by
focusing on non-US women falling or messing up in some way.



Date:    Thu, 25 Jul 1996 06:15:42 +1000
From:    ***@JCU.EDU.AU
Subject: gym crowd makes OZ national news!

Hi gymners,

Firstly before I report on this, I'd like to say thankyou to those
Americans on the list who emailed in to say how appalled they were at the
crowds behaviour at the Georgia Dome. You have at least shown us
international gymners that this is not condoned by every American.

On The National Prime Time News in Australia today

A large report on the Amerian crowds behaviour and unsportsmanship towards
athletes from other countries. I am sad to say that while other venues
crods are acknowledged to be vocal and parochial, it is the GYMNASTICS
crowd being held up to condemnation. They clearly showed routines by
non-US gymnasts with just a silence after their conclusion. The crowd was
described as ugly and the bewildered look on gymnasts faces as they
performed their hearts out to me met with no acknowledgement was
heartbreaking!. This has made our national news, its I'm sure the example
being shown in other countries. Whether gymners condone it or not,
unfortunatly this is how americans are being perceived overseas.

Someone posted that this should be expected as the Olympics are on home
ground! What rubbish!!!!!! If americans were at an overseas venue to cheer
their athletes that would be expected, but having Olympics on home ground
carries more responsibility than that. The host country is supposed to
welcome all athletes and visitors, and contribute to making this dream
something special for these athletes who have sacrificed much to get
there. It's an honour to host an Olympics, not a red light to ignore
non-home country athletes. Yes maybe the Barcelona crowd was boring,
although I didn't think they were, but I doubt any Barcelona athletes
(Americans included) went home feeling they had been ignored and their
hard work was for nothing. Dont tell me that gymnasts are really driven by
the dollar, or by AA gold, they all know that few achieve that. I would
suggest that the thing that drives mostr gymnasts , for example Amanda
Borden is their performance, that knowledge that they have done the best
they possibly can on that day, and that those watching have appreciated
their performances. Sadly that has been denied to many Atlanta gymnasts!



Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:11:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Day and Date

First 5 minutes--interviews with Kerri, lookbacks, etc.
Second 5--Christy Henrich, talks with Kristie Phillips--who said it was
bad but that people are overreacting and no one's making girls do this,
interviews with various people on the street who think it's awful, or that
they're so happy to be americans, etc. etc. etc.
No mention of Joan Ryan or Little Girls.
Also mentioned the age requirement being raised for next Olympics.
But his isn't a serious show--
now there showing a piece about a custody battle over a DOG.
sorry about erroers--really bad computer.


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:17:54 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: fan nuttiness....

>I agree that the fans in the Dome were obnoxious, but when does screaming
>at a MAJOR sporting event not happen in the US?  NBA Finals-the home team
>crowds are obnoxious.  Stanley Cup Finals are even worse.

Yeah, and fans from other countries (ie. Canada) think they're obnoxious
too.  I watch a lot of hockey and over the years have observed a lot of
rude and unsportsmanlike behavior in American Cities.  A few examples:

- American Hockey fans seem to think that chanting the opposing
goaltenders name after he lets in a goal will get him off his game and
provide an advantage to their team. It's like they're saying "You Suck"
The  only people they're annoying are the visiting team's fans watching at home
 on TV.

- When Wayne Gretsky, the greatest hockey player ever, steps onto any
ice surface in Canada, he recieves thunderous applause, no matter what
team he's on.  In the States, this doesn't happen.

They also boo the opposing team when they score, and - my favourite -
throw things at them from the stands.  None of these things happen
in Canada.

But professional sports are different from the Olympics.  Those athletes
are paid millions of dollars a year to win games.  The whole purpose of
the Olympics is for athletes to represent their country and do their best.
Americans don't seem to understand this.  I think the problem is rooted
in the media.  During the weeks preceding the olympics, I saw many
commericals advertising products who supported American athletes
as they "go for gold" or encourage people to watch athletes in their
quest for gold.  My favourite is the one with Dominque Moceanu, who of
course is supposed to win the gold medal.

 I don't know what advertising is like in other countries,
but in Canada it is much different than that.  Most of the commericials
in our country advertise products that support athletes as they "represent
Canada" or, for example "Kelloggs supports Donovan Bailey in his
run for Canada."  Only recently have they begun to mention medals, and
then only with athletes who have a legitimate chance of winning.


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:28:12 -0700
Subject: The crowd

Here's Bart Conner's two cents worth on the Dome mob, printed in this
morning's paper:

"I don't want to take anything away from the Americans," said Conner, a
double gold medalist for the United States in 1984 and wife of ex-Romanian
Nadia Comaneci. "They were good today, but I believe the crowd also put the
other teams at a distinct disadvantage. I was in a home-crowd situation in
Los Angeles, but it wasn't like that. I've never seen anything like this in
my life.

"Didn't you feel sorry for the other athletes? The Romanian coaches were
joking that they should apologize for performing at the same time as the
Americans, that maybe they should offer to turn off their floor routine
music so it wouldn't distract the Americans."

Yes, well, turning off Romanian music would be an improvement, but that's
beside the point.

And I thought Indy was horrifying.


Is this Gymnastics, or is it Little Short Squat Kids Jumping Around?


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:29:48 CST
Subject: Dom and Kerri's scores

     Dominique Moceanu scored a 9.85 on BB
     Kerri Strug scored a 9.837 on FX

     I found AA totals in the USAG page and deduced this scores, sorry if
     they are wrong.


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:36:36 -0700
Subject: chinese women

I concurr with those who have complained about the lack of coverage of
gymnasts from other countries.  I was lucky enough to watch three of the
chinese women performing on uneven bars (i had lunch at a sports bar that
had satellite and the canadian chanel was showing some delayed routines from
the third rotation) and they took my breath away (it also helped that I
didn't have to listen to NBC commentators's inane comments). They were
amazing, showing a very different style than everyone else, building upon the
routines that they showed in Barcelona (Li-Li, etc). I wish I could
describe the stuff they do but I lack the terminology. Basically a lot
of tucked action (?) around the high bar and backward rotations, radically
differenr than those giant swings that everybody else favours.

I hope NBC shows at least some of them during
the individual AA.



Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:40:27 -0400
From:    ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Strug Floor score??????

Kerri got a 9.837 on floor, same as Moceanu and just below Dawes.
Probably a deduction because the second front-full was off.


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 16:42:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Rotation

The US has had this rotation (bars, beam, floor, vault) since the 91
worlds.  Will this ever change, and how do they decide the rotations?
Also, this is a silly question, but why do the Romanians salute with two
hands when many of the Europeans salute with one?

A member of the race that knows Joseph


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 20:50:30 -0600
Subject: Alot of follow up.

Here we go

1) I haven't said anything about the scores. I think that the US was
scored very fairly and I was so happy for one thing: The Us public
got to see how ridiculous the scores are at US nationals. All of those
routines would have scored higher. Even Kerri's FX, where she did that
tucked/straight body full. That was her big deduction. Shannon's FX score
was interesting since, and I don't thinkmany people know this, the
scoreboards showed the START value for teh routines. It would have been
interesting to have seen the actually score board to see what they
took off for BP and where she started from. My guess is that she
started from a 9.9.

2) I was very sad for Kerri, but Kerri is a great athlete and she did what
'she felt' was necessary. Bela has been on many TV shows (see below) and
has said that it was 'her decision and she made. He told her that
the gold was in 'her hand' and she said she could 'do it'. I think,
and this may surprise you, that the USA was the best team at last nights
performance. But I think that pure athelticism was not the main reason.
I think, as people have meantioned on the list, was that the crowd
did have some sort of demoralizing effect on the athletes.

3) As for many other things, I am sorry that I may seem like I am
whining, but someone has to. You may not like reading my posts on this
list about how bad the crowd was, but just how many of those front page
articles on every newspaper across the world, meantioned that the
other teams were not even aknowledged by the audience. Pods again, under
the worst conditions, proved that she is the best gymnast on the face of the
earth. And NBC only showed us one of her routines. Dina proved that
she is back and she is the third best gymnast on the earth, and NBC didn't
even show her except for her mounting BB while someone from USA was on
FX. Do you think that this was fair. Do you think that NBC, like in
Barcelona will snub a medalist and only show us two of her four
routines while showing americans like Betty Okino who has NO CHANCE of a
medal? What is up with this? (Milo won bronze and they only showed her FX
and her Bars, not her 9.975 V or 9.85 BB routines.)

4) More comparison between Barcelona and the 'mob' in the Dome. Some
person said that in Barcelona the crowd was like cheering  a'badmiton' match.
What earth are you on? I just rewatched the team final from the triple
cast and the crowd roared for Milo and Bontas on FX, they gasped with the
US vaulst and Zmeskal
's performance. They were full of emotion for everything Bogi did, and
get this: they actually BOOED the FX scores for Lyssenko, Bogi,
Chutsovitina, and Gutsu. This seemed liked a more diverse crowd,
people who were cheering the performances of the other teams. And one really
nice thing: The crowd gave a standing ovation for the teams when they
left the arena. And when the US had left and the chinese were still on the
floor the were still standing and applauding. This is nice. It's like,
we salute your efforts. It wasn't: IN YOUR FACE. That is what the DOME was.
NEWSFLASH: The Palais San Jorde was full of Americans, too.

5) Kerri will not do AA. It was announced by Bela on TV and that Moceanu
will sub. Kerri is trying to rest her badly swollen leg. She may compete
V and FX finals. Bela said the decision will come soon.

6) The 'Mag Seven' were treated like royalty last night. They were treated to
a party in their honor at Planet Hollywood in Atlanta, hosted by Demi
(pronouced Dem-Me) Moore and Bruce Willis. Bela again said the same thing to

reporters: It was Kerri's decision. She said she could do it.

(Internet Poll: Do you think Demi and Bruce would have had a party if
Romania won the Gold?)

The mag seven have shown on several syndicated shows (Extra, etc) and
Kerri Strug still says no endorcements, she wants to compete for a college.
Good for her.

7) CBS News announced today that in a few days there will be a report in the
New England Journal of Medicine which says that pushing female athletes
too much in GYM too early can cause all sorts of trouble. Anyone get the NJM?
Tell us about it.

8) You people may notice that I salute my favorite female artistic
gymnast with the little bit "Dina, Dina, Dina" at the end of my messages.
Well, all you people out there who have started adding your favorite gymnasts
at the end of your messages, just remember something: Imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery!

9) Congradulations to the USA. I hope, however, that the next team USA
will not have to deal with the hype and expectations that this team's
success may bring (Rememeber 1985?) I wish them all luck in
apparatus finals.

10) I still like team Russia the best. I wish them luck, too, as for
all the other gymnasts out there. I just hope that they can leave
their experiences of Tuesday behind them. I look forward, with great
anticipation, of the next worlds to be held in Luassane Switzerland.
Perhaps all those fans who, like McDonald's, think that 'you have to be
perky- the judges like it when you're perky' can't afford the plane fare.


P.S. One more thing: When I attended the Pre-Olympics, the crowd was
far more behaved. And it was sell-out on the second day.

Dina, Dina, Dina.


End of GYMN-L Digest - 24 Jul 1996 - Special issue