GYMN-L Digest - 24 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 17 messages totalling 609 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Scores
  2. OLYMPIC WWW page.
  3. gymn fans and ordinary fans and NBC (long)
  4. Wow!  MAG and WAG
  5. Kerri Strug in the Houston Chronicle (2)
  6. kerri
  7. A mix of things
  8. Stop NBC bashing please! (2)
  9. Women's Team Finals ! !
 10. Clogging
 11. Strug vs. others (2)
 12. <No subject given>
 13. WAG: EF listings.
 14. IBM still posting Bogus Results


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:17:05 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Scores

Does anyone know what the scores were in the optionals for
Strug's FX, Moceanu's BB, Phellp's Vault????

Also, does anyone know if Kerri is definatley out of AA and if she dawes
withdraw from  AA  can she still compete in Finals Sun. and Mon.  If so,
since Moceanu's total was higher than Phellps, Moceanu would be in AA right?


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:11:06 -0600
Subject: OLYMPIC WWW page.

Has anyone gotten threw to this thing? It won't load for me and says

'Segmentation fault (core dumped).


Dina, Elena, Elena, Eugenia, Oksana, Rozalia, Svetlana!


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:24:31 -0400
From:    ***@EROLS.COM
Subject: gymn fans and ordinary fans and NBC (long)

Someone last time noted:

OK folks, let's remember that the NBC audience isn't composed soley of
serious fans like us.  As one NBC official said before the Olympics, "It's
the stories that hook people to the sports."  Also remember that the
Olympics are as much about culture as pure sport.  1992's coverage was
filled (huh?) with features about Spanish artists and architecture.  It's
pretty hard to to avoid addressing the Civil War when dealing with Atlanta.
And since I'm pretty weak on Civil War history, I found the feature

Nonetheless, the hot topic of conversation at lunch at work today, started
not by me but by the nonserious fans, was (a) how irritating John Tesh was;
(b) how even more irritating Tim Daggett was; (c) how excruciating it is
to sit through all those feature stories, and particularly the ones that
repeat themselves -- we don't need, every night, several times, to hear about
Scherbo's wife -- it's important to say once, I think (though even then, the
soft-focus puff pieces irritated people; the nonspecialists would rather
have heard a thirty-second commentary, without the soaring music and endless
photos and unilluminating interviews; (d) how irritating it is not to be
told things they didn't understand, like why certain routines did not
receive great scores, and how frustrating it is to see a routine, but not a
score; and (e) how incredibly irritating it was to see only the Americans --
to understand what it was that they were competing against.  (I actually
counter-argued that one to a certain extent, on the grounds that we will not
be seeing most of these guys again in the AA or finals, and the best should
be better covered then).  The only real skew in my sample is that these were
all lawyers (a skew, I know), but they were more than 50% women, there was no
difference whatsoever in reaction between men and women (about 4 of each),
and some are sportsfans across the board, while others are Olympics junkies
and more casual fans of other sports.

Later, we discussed swimming (for Mineralman's info, some folks disliked
Summer Sander's voice, but people thought she was providing useful info
during the races.)

So, maybe there's something to the research that says that women like fluff,
though I haven't met a woman of whom that's true -- but does the research
really indicate that we want this much fluff??  I'm skeptical (and hate being
condescended to).  Women always watched the Olympics in large numbers, but
very few people can tolerate sitting through two rounds of ads and two long
fluff pieces for one uneven bars routine.  The fluff is leadup, not the end
in itself.

Final complaint:  why must Tesh introduce the gymn segment with repeated
references to "little girls dancing".  These may be small young women, but
they're not "little girls" (except in the physical sense, in, e.g., Moceanu's
case).  Indeed, the top rankings posted earlier today reveal that the vast
majority of the top finalists are quite a bit older.  Please get someone to
rewrite his script before Thursday!

-- Ann.


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:26:23 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Wow!  MAG and WAG

I can almost breathe again, an hour or more after the WAG competition.  What
an incredible job by the whole "Magnificent 7"!  And does Kerri ever have
guts!  It's about time that she gets the recognition that she's deserved for
so long.  But it breaks my heart that she finally made the all-around and is
almost certainly not going to be able to compete.  I think her tears on the
podium were more for that than the pain.  But I think she's going to be one
of *the* stories of this Olympics.  Bud Greenspan, here's a story and an
athlete right up your alley.

I'm proud of the men, too.  To come in fifth is quite an accomplishment,
especially considering the low expectations people had for them.  I think
these guys can hold their heads up high.

All of that having been said, I have to make my own "complaints" about the
NBC coverage.  I loved seeing all of the American women's routines and most
of the men's.  But, greedy gus that I am, I wanted to see the other top
teams, too.  I know that NBC doesn't have the time to show everything, and
they made a real committment to showing much more than we normally get.
 (And, thinking about it a little more, I think they gave the U.S. women the
same kind of coverage the top teams usually get.  We're just unused to it
being us!)  So I'm sorry/grateful.  We saw almost nothing of the Russians and
Romanians, which is a flat-out shame, since I'm sure they had some beautiful
routines.  It's hardly fair to show just brief clips of athletes falling off
the beam or bars.  On top of that, did they show any of the Belorussians or
Chinese this morning?  I didn't hear a whiff of how they did.  Can anyone
fill us in on Bogi, Mo, and the others?  Did the Chinese come back from
Monday night, or were they still rattled?  What a shame for them - they're
such wonderful gymnasts, and so beautiful to watch.

I apologize for the length of this message!


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:32:24 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Kerri Strug in the Houston Chronicle

According to the Houston Chronicle, Kerri won't be competing in the all
around or her two event finals. :(

They called it a third degree lateral sprain.

I'm hoping they're jumping the gun with this news, and she hasn't actually
been pulled out of everything. I know her competing is unrealistic, but it
would be nice to think that she could make the floor finals, since they're 5
days away.

LeeAnn (probably being too optimistic)


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:37:56 -0300
From:    ***@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: kerri

Just saw a news report and interveiw with Kerri - 1:34 est - on NBC. The
ankle is sprained, not broken and no knee injury. She says she's going to
do everything it takes to get to the AA. Normally the poition has to be
sucured 24 hours ahead of time, but in the case of questionable injury
the decision to replace kerri, with dom m, can be made on the day of
compettion. lisa...sorry if i am lil incoherent is 2:30 am. lisa


Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:38:10 -0700
From:    ***@VCN.BC.CA
Subject: A mix of things

Hi all,

That was one of the most dramatic and action pack Olympics I have ever
seen.  Congratuation to Team USA (Athletes and Staffs)!!! and a my deepest
respect for Kerri Strug! Yeah!!!

- NBC coverage SUCKS! Where's the coverage of Russian, Romanian, Chinese
  and more?  Where's Dina (who was the 3rd qualifier to AA)?

- What happen to Oksana Fabrichnova?

- Too bad there are always some stupid fans (flash photo) and
  disrespectful ones.

- Remember the drinking games? How many are wasted out there?

Just my 2 cents,



Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:03:24 -0400
From:    ***@ISMI.NET
Subject: Re: Kerri Strug in the Houston Chronicle


I totally agree!  Perhaps AA finals is a bit risky, but with floor being so
far away I really think that she could make it.  And not only could she make
it to finals, but she could win!!  Isn't she the leader going into them?

Kerri has always been my fav and I for one was thrilled to see her get the
gold medal she has deserved for so long.  She was by far the biggest team
player of the evening.  It doesn't matter wrether or not the U.S. "needed
her score", the fact is she vaulted and made them undoubtly the worlds best.
My hat is off to her and tonight she became my and America's sweetheart of
the Atlanta Olympics!


At 01:32 AM 7/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>According to the Houston Chronicle, Kerri won't be competing in the all
>around or her two event finals. :(
>They called it a third degree lateral sprain.
>I'm hoping they're jumping the gun with this news, and she hasn't actually
>been pulled out of everything. I know her competing is unrealistic, but it
>would be nice to think that she could make the floor finals, since they're 5
>days away.
>LeeAnn (probably being too optimistic)


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:07:26 -0400
From:    ***@ISMI.NET
Subject: Stop NBC bashing please!

Okay all, I know that NBC didn't show everybodies routines however with the
AMericans winning the gold did you honestly expect them to?  First off, if
it had even been close then they would have showed the others, however the
U.S. took and lead early and ran away with it, NBC did an awesome job at
covering the games in the little amount of time that they had.  I for one
would rather see the AMericans then anyone else and I have the feeling there
are a lot of others out there like me.  I also love Russia and Pod
ect...however we will see them in finals, don't worry, they will be up there
on the stands, hopefully standing below the AMericans but on the stands
(fingers crossed for Miller, Dawes, and especially Strug!!).  Okay, enough said!


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:09:23 -0400
From:    ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Women's Team Finals ! !

        Wow.  A number of things have already been addressed or touched on
as I throw in my two cents...

        Concerning NBC's lack of coverage of the other countries:  As has
been mentioned, this is an American network covering a strong American team
at a home-field Olympics... and expect things to be skewed that way.  I can
understand them targeting the casual viewer, whatever demographic groups
they want, and generally doing things the way they are--but I'm not so sure
it excuses them from skimming over the other countries in the session so
glibly... even with this "plausibly live" coverage which had, by broadcast,
two hours to be edited, they left in long waits for American scores, leaving
us long pauses to show... the Americans changing their wrist tapes.  They
could have done *something* to edit that time to better use.
        The crowd... will be the crowd.  It is out of control, but that also
affects everyone there, and asking for an unbiased American crowd in Atlanta
is too much to hope for; it's been heavily hyped up, it's a rare opportunity
for most of them... and since most of us aren't in that crowd it's probably
impossible to guess what it fely like in there.
        Going back to the first topic: The mini-crowd I was with up in the
TV lounge here was NOT happy when they showed a foreign routine in place of
an American one (not that they had to wait long for the missing American
routine to get shown).
        I found Tesh's "little girls dancing" comment incredibly patronizing
as well...

        But then there's Kerri... who may have done the performance and
provided the images that this Olympics will be remembered for.  Going back
up there and doing that was truly heroic--I doubt anyone knew exactly how
the standings were stacked up up there on the podium, so whether it was
really needed or not... wow.  (NBC's late night show had a quick interview
which shed some more light on her feelings about it--and I really feel for
her after what she said.  She also mentions that she REALLY wants to be in
AA finals Thursday.)  I hope she's well, this is her moment now... though I
also hope that if she is not well enough she doesn't risk further injury by
going anyway.
        Courage, honor, dedication, and sacrifice... I've never seen
anything like tonight.


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:23:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Clogging

I'm not going to clog up the list by saying that Kerri Strug is brave;
that is already known and respected.  And I must say that I am proud of
the scoring...Ididn't see a score over 9.850 (but then of course I
watched NBC), congrats to the judging for non-inflating scores.  And the
American Women--even if they were not the most well-known or medaled or
whatever gymnasts out there, they did what they had to do--hit--and they
did it well.  I didn't think the US would get a gold because in previous
competitions, they were never that consistent or solid.  Somehow they
made it all work for them; and they are deserving champions...

Of course there is a but.  My heart went out to the Russian and Romanian
athletes; not so much because they did not win, but because they were
ignored.  A gymnast such as Khorkina, for example, prides herself on
audience reaction and is very sensitive to it as well.  She performed
well, did the routine she had worked on for years and years to perform
in teh Olympic Games, and seeing her reaction to the non-reaction of the
crowd after her stellar beam set, hurt.  I hurt for her too.
I fear (and I believe) that most athletes will leave Atlanta with a bit
of sourness, and not because of medals.

So I guess the competition provided many contrasting emotions...  I'm
not sure which will override in my mind.


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:27:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Strug vs. others

I'm surprised people haven't compared the Kerri situation to two
previous ones:1976 Montreal Olympics, Sun Fujimoto competing on his knee
1979 World Championships, Nadia competing on her wrist

I'm not going to say much else, but I don't think anyone could overlook
the state of things as Kerri sang "the home of the brave." Touching,
even to us real gymnastics people...


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:41:15 -0500
From:    ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: <No subject given>

My predictions for the near future: Kerri becomes the darling of the
games.  Although getting hurt shouldn't be the way you finally earn the
spot light, her injury is going to have some good effects.  If it was not
for Kerri, I fear Dom Morceanu would have been all that was talked about
the next day.  "And America's best hope for an all around gold fails to
even make the all around."  Shades of Janet Evans!  To make it worse
Moceanu would have been subjected to pluff hell for the rest of her
life.  Tomorrow morning I believe Kerri will be talked about and Moceanu
might be mentioned in passing, but not have all the negative weight put
on her shoulders.  In this way Moceanu will be able to go on if she likes
and be a asset in the next few years, she will not run away thinking she
had failed.

Secondly I have an attraction to the underdog or the underhyped.  Going
in I hoped for good showings from Phelps, Dawes, and Strug.  The way
things have worked out it looks like Strug gets the honor of being the
hero, and knowing that she had the stuff to make the all around.  Also
Phelps gets to be in the all around (I think I'm right here ...sorry if
I'm incorrect on this).

Basically things happen for a reason and as aweful as Kerri's injury is,
she not only helped to US in a big way, she helped her teammates, saving
Moceanu from being labeled as a failure and giving Phelps one more chance
to shine.

That said ...

KERRI, KERRI, KERRI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:48:28 -0600
Subject: WAG: EF listings.

I got this off the WWW page. It may not be accurate. Check the page for
yourself if you want. It looks alittle odd, especially the Bars final.
You'll see.

The following gymnasts have qualified for EF in WAG:

In order of qualification:

Vault: Amanar, Mo, Dawes, Bogi, Milo, Dolgopolova, Ji Liya, Chow

Gogean qualified with the third highest score but is NOT competing....hmmm.
She qualified ahead of Milo and the list says Milo qualifies for
the final. This makes no sense since Gina is the reigning world

Bars: Khorkina, Dawes, Chow, Bi Wenjiing, Amanar, Pods, Mo (with a FALL!)
and Kotechekova. The WWW page lists Moceanu as competing and not Dina,
but there are two americans ahead of her.

Beam: Miller, Moceanu, Pods, Kotchekova, Galiyeva, Gogean, Milo, Teslenko

(note: Khorkina and Marinescu finished 6th and 9th, respectively but will not
compete due to higher team members. Teslenko is from the Ukraine.)

Floor: Amanar, Gogean, Dawes, Moceanu, Ji Liya, Mo, Grosheva.

Milo actually finished 7th, but with two ahead. Also, Pods was only 12th!!
(Strug is listed as being 5th, but if she can't compete then Pods gets
it, since only Rom and Chinese ahead of her.)

In the most finals: Amanar, Mo, Dawes, and Pods (3 each) Miller only making
one is surprising.


BTW: Chutsovitina finished 45th on FX (9.562) and 24th on V. Too bad.

Check this out for yourself under

and follow gymnastics threw.

Dina, Elena, Elena, Eugenia, Oksana, Rozalia, Svetlana!


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 02:59:11 -0400
From:    ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: Strug vs. others

At 02:27 7/24/96 EDT, you wrote:
>I'm surprised people haven't compared the Kerri situation to two
>previous ones:1976 Montreal Olympics, Sun Fujimoto competing on his knee
>1979 World Championships, Nadia competing on her wrist

        I did think of Nadia's wrist injury as the hero posts started
flying, but I suppose this also feels different in some ways... Strug may
have been the anchor, but there's always been the
underdog/bridesmaid/nomad/etc. stigma that's accompanied her for the past
few years... and which she has probably now finally and thoroughly transcended.

>I'm not going to say much else, but I don't think anyone could overlook
>the state of things as Kerri sang "the home of the brave." Touching,
>even to us real gymnastics people...

        The final minutes, with Bela bringing Kerri to the medals stand,
Shannon helping her up, and the entire team singing... terrific images.
        (Though it did appear that most forgot Kerri when it came time to
step back down... except for Bela again, who showed how much he really
*does* care tonight.)


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 00:01:29 -0700
From:    ***@VCN.BC.CA
Subject: Re: Stop NBC bashing please!

Sorry, I have to disagree to this one.  This was simply a lop sided
coverage, only time they show other countries was when they make a mistake
or falling off apparatus, which was looked like making fun of the other
team to me (come on have some respect huh?).  I almost thought they are
only going to show US on the podium because they took a commercial break
right after the US got their medal and no one else was around.  This is
like the Oprah Winfrey (sp?) show, not telling the other side of the
stories.  How can we know how good the USA really is, if we got no

Just my two cents,


Date:    Wed, 24 Jul 1996 03:10:17 -0400
Subject: IBM still posting Bogus Results

** Major gripe warning **

With the excitement of tonight's competitions, I find myself unable to
sleep.  So I once again scour the WWW (World Wide Waste-o-time) for today's
results. Not surprisingly, the official IBM/ACOG results site is still
majorly bugged up.  The reason, I discover, is that they're using IBM DB2
which is a database for dinosaurs and it is the root of all evil.  If you
have to deal with DB2 at work, implore your system managers to get rid of
it as soon as possible.  IBM OS/2 also has something to do with this chaos,
so get rid of that too.

Hey, NBC is still on, and they just showed a flashback clip of Shun
Fujimoto who competed rings on a broken leg back in 1976.  Well, Kerri's
vault now belongs right up there in the "acts of valour" video clip
collection.  Also, for you east-coast kiddies who didn't stay up tonight,
Kerri gave a great interview from the hospital.  She still really wants to
compete in the AA!  It seems this has been her prime motivation.  So even
if she didn't need to vault for the team gold, I think she was also
vaulting to show herself (and the world) that she really does belong in the

Back on the IBM dumpster track, here is an example of what shows up under
the tonight's team results (a good four hours after the end of the

>[Olympic Results: Artistic Gymnastics: Women's Team - IBM]
>Artistic Gymnastics: Women's Team
>                                               Vault  Uneven    Beam   Floor
> Rank     Country      Points     Athlete     [Image] [Image] [Image] [Image]
>      [Image] United
>  1   States of
>      America[USA]     389.225 PHELPS, Jaycie 19.249  19.499   18.612  19.412
>                               CHOW, Amy      19.412  19.599    1005  0046960
>                               CHOW, Amy      19.462  19.562   19.599  19.405
>                               DAWES,
>                               Dominique      19.487  19.612   19.150  19.537
>                               MOCEANU,
>                               Dominique      18.862  19.537   19.537  19.587
>                               STRUG, Kerri   19.524  19.462   19.087  19.662

Wow, like, Amy Chow got a 1005 on beam and a 46960 on floor, eh?  Must've
been pretty spectacular! ;^) And she got to compete twice!  %^) And Shannon
Miller and Amanda Borden stayed at the frat house & watched TV.  -- Of
course, NOT.  But this is what the non-TV-tuned world sees when it goes
looking for results.  It's unbelievable that IBM & ACOG would post such
poor quality of "official" results when they obviously have no idea what
they're doing.  What a joke!  And the endless IBM commericals touting their
Olympic web site (especially the Spinal Tap ones in French with English
subtitles on the francophone network SRC) must be an embarassment.  This no
doubt adds to the "Chaos is Everything" theme of these Games.

...As well, I believe that IBM still claims that Ghana is in first place in
the men's team competition...

What else are they using for the scoring system?  An Etch-a-Sketch
interfaced with two cans tied together with string?

Most bothersomely of all, there are no all-around qualification rankings to
be found anywhere.
CBC told us that Yvonne Tousek qualified for AA, but that was before the
last two subdivisions.

Hopefully, I will get some official results faxed to me tomorrow (didn't
get anything today from the COA).




End of GYMN-L Digest - 24 Jul 1996 - Special issue