GYMN-L Digest - 22 Sep 1995 to 23 Sep 1995 - Special
There are 15 messages totalling 525 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Rhythmic Worlds - AA (Individual and Groups) (Day Three)
2. Gymnastics in media (fwd)
3. NPL Spot
5. cost of nationals trip (2)
6. Triplecast and old tapes
7. All Africa Games: Various Event Finals
8. NPR and intro
10. Good Coaching Strategy, etc.
11. Olympic Festival (2)
12. How to Order Transcripts (was Re: NPR Spot)
13. Rick Newman
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 05:39:05 -0400
Subject: Rhythmic Worlds - AA (Individual and Groups) (Day Three)
Rhythmic World Championships 1995
Vienna, Austria 19-24 September 1995
Day Three - AA Competition (part one)
Current Standings after two apparatus:
=1. Larissa Lukianenko (BLR) 19.900
=1. Maria Petrova (BUL) 19.900
=1. Ekaterina Serebrianskaya (UKR) 19.900
4. Jana Batyrchina (RUS) 19.850
5. Elena Vitrichenko (UKR) 19.800
6. Amina Zaripova (RUS) 19.700
7. Diana Popova (BUL) 19.525
8. Magdalena Brzeska (GER) 19.350
9. Eva Serrano (FRA) 19.150
10. Eugenia Pavlina (BLR) 19.050
11. Almudena Cid Tostado (ESP) 19.025
12. Alina Stoica (ROM) 19.000
13. Katia Pietrosanti (ITA) 18.950
14. Irene Germini (ITA) 18.800
15. Maria Pangalou (GRE) 18.750
16. Miho Yamada (JPN) 18.725
(Jessica Davis of USA is currently 25th with 18.250)
An exciting meet so far with the top three all scoring 9.950s
in all their exercises, thus making a three way tie for the
lead with all three on 19.900 points. And these big guns of
rhythmic gymnastics are at it again. The competition will
DSF did an interview with Jana Batyrchina, but the German
presenter asked the questions in German and Jana replied in
Russian and they were translated back into German by translator.
(In other words, I have no idea what they were talking about)
Groups All-Around :
Current standings after one apparatus each:
1. Bulgaria 19.775
2. Spain 19.650
3. Belarus 19.550
4. Italy 19.400
5. France 19.350
6. China 19.325
=7. Ukraine 19.250
=7. Germany 19.250
Big shock of the day as tournament favourites Russia is down at
13th place out of 16 with only 18.725 for their hoop exercise!
It was a messy routine capped by a rolling hoop outside the area
and the Russians are bitterly disappointed about their
performance. This leaves the Bulgarians favourite to take the AA
gold when this competition continues tomorrow.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 09:33:29 -0400
Subject: Gymnastics in media (fwd)
I remember on Twenty one Jump street threre was an epidsoe about steriods
in school. It started out with a girl doing the floor exercise. After
the competition she had a nose bleed. She then fainted and died. The girl
who caught her had blood on her hands. Hoffs followed a girl who was
preparing to go to the regionals and then to the nationals. The girl was
working on beam. Her coach was very demanding. She said the girl had
the potential to go to the Olympics. If I remember correctly the girl
was taking steriods to either stop the pain or to work harder. A
football player was also taking steriods and the big guy on the show was
following him. Well anyways the football player was to be an All-American
and was going to go to collage, he got mad at his little brother who
looked up to him and almost killed him ( Steriod effects) .The guy used so
much steriods that he died of an heart attack. The girl began to have
nosebleeds but still went on the regionals. I believe that she was
sideline by the coach after she found out of about her steriod use. I
think it was after she fell of or got hurt.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:39:46 -0600
Subject: Gymnastics in media
Just surprised that gymnastics, though highly popular with viewing at OG
and as small article feed in the newsprint, never makes it into entertainment.
Anyone know of a time when a child on a television show was depicted as
being a gymnast? A movie? (Other than American Anthem).
P.S. This team to Sabae- I don't know why anyone is guessing about who
will make it to AA. Given a perfect outing, maybe you could speculate. BUt
we know that everyone can be less than perfect at times. Look at Shannon
at Dortmund on bars.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 10:23:09 -0400
Subject: NPL Spot
Wish I'd heard that piece on Dynamo! But if many of you are thinking the
same thing, I know that tapes of "All Things Considered" can be purchased. I've
lost all the relevant phone numbers now, but all you have to do is call your
local public radio station and explain what you want. They should be able to
give you the number of where to call. If I remember right, you just need to
specify the date and name of the show. They'll either send you the whole show
or, for a higher price, just the segment you're interested in.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 11:57:57 -0400
My dad said he heard a long segment about the Book on NPR in July (didn't
tell what sort of reviews there were) as well as something about
Dominique Moceanu when she won Nationals. Seems like this radio station
is doing well paying attention to gymnastics. Just wish we could find
out when these things would be broadcast beforehand. If anyone finds out
how to get copies of these segments, please post the info:-)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:38:30 -0400
Subject: Re: cost of nationals trip
>Tickets this year for both men's & women's sessions were about
>$100 for one person.
I went to nationals this year too and I thought that the ticket prices were
way too high. Because the arena was too big for a gymnastics meet, the
lighting was really bad, and the gymnastics was kinda bad, too.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:08:28 -0600
Subject: Triplecast and old tapes
I am looking for tapes of women's artistic gymnastic competitions before
1988--esp the 1987 worlds or 1985 worlds. And I am positively desperate
for the 1989 worlds or 1989 (90?) European champs with Svetlana. I am also
missing the 1991 worlds with Kim Zmeskal which I would appreciate. I only
have access to US VHS format, but I can copy tapes and mail them back or
will pay for postage, etc. I am willing to trade for anything I have which
includes every single minute of the 1992 women's artistic *Triplecast*
coverage, lots of ESPN gym meets (Budget, invitationals, etc.). I have
most stuff post-1988, except the above mentioned ones. Let me know if you
can help via email, at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 11:47:13 -0600
Subject: All Africa Games: Various Event Finals
All Africa Games
The results across Reuters has been spotty, but I do have these
Men's Floor exercise:
1. Karim Otmani (Algeria) 8.975 points
2. Raduf Abdelkerim (Egypt) 8.875
3. Cristian Brezeanu (South Africa) 8.850
4. Abdeloiahab Mammeri (Algeria) 8.675
5. Peter Ojo (Nigeria) 8.650
6. Kenneth Ikani (Nigeria) 8.575
6. Dewald Laubscher (South Africa) 8.575
8. Ahmed Rabie (Egypt) 8.450
1. Lina Monir (Egypt) 8.550 points
2. Marwa Abdelmoneim (Egypt) 8.300
3. Cheryl Phillips (South Africa) 8.150
4. Lauren Falk (Zimbabwe) 7.950
5. Danielle de Wet (Namibia) 7.650
6. Chido Mombeshora (Zimbabwe) 7.600
7. Varela Lizandra (Cape Verde) 7.550
8. Madere Smith (South Africa) 7.525
1. Sherine Abdelmoniem (Egypt) 8.700
2. Andrea Schermoly (South Africa) 8.600
3. Howaida Yousef (Egypt) 8.475
4. Lauren Falk (Zimbabwe) 8.050
5. Cheryl Phillips (South Africa) 7.850
6. Thelma Ramos (Cape Verde) 7.800
7. Megan Robertson (Zimbabwe) 7.775
8. Anre van der Merwe (Namibia) 7.625
In the ball category:
1. Howaida Yousef (Egypt) 8.500
1. Michelle Cameron (South Africa) 8.500
3. Andrea Schermoly(South Africa) 8.325
4. Lina Monir (Egypt) 8.100
5. Lauren Falk (Zimbabwe) 7.925
6. Megan Robertson (Zimbabwe) 7.875
7. Thelma Ramos (Cape Verde) 7.400
8. Danielle de Wet (Namibia) 7.150
Apparently the All Africa Games are supposed to be a sign of unity
among the African nations, but they have been saddled with lots of
controversy. The gymnastics competition alone included Egypt
complaining that a South African gymnast's lacy sleeves were too sexy.
Also, Algeria disputed one of the gold medals won by a South African.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:25:44 -0600
Subject: Re: cost of nationals trip
| The nationals are definitely going to be held in Knoxville and then the
| olympic trials will be in Boston in mid-june.
Actually, Trials are at the end of June (25-30).
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 13:54:06 -0600
Subject: NPR and intro
I've been lurking for a couple of months now, and have seen enough to
expect some flames over this comment, but I can't resist. I'm a 28-year old
ex-gymnast who follows the sport avidly. I have much to say about the
height/weight thing but some other time--as a 5'11" female, at least my
growth doesn't appear to have been stunted! I grew four inches during the
last year I competed.
I heard the NPR piece on gymnastics and while I thought it was very fair
and well done, I am bothered by some of the coaches' and gymnasts'
comments. For example, I think it is Steve and not the interviewer who
mentions that Marianna Webster's ranking has fallen from 6 to 15 this year,
and therefore her motivation and desire to work hard has to be questioned.
Then there's a segment with Steve yelling at her and saying that his
grandmother could vault better than that. I have two problems with
this--first, that her lower ranking somehow necessarily implies a
diminished psychological effort, and second, that to remedy her slack
motivation comments like Steve's are appropriate. I think Joan Ryan's book
was a model of shabby reporting and obviously she chose her subjects very
carefully, but her point about constant criticisms these girls/women hear
for eight hours a day during critical formative years is a good one.
Coaches who teach by endless criticism (the best thing Steve ever said
during the piece was "that wasn't too bad" and "until the last pass, that
was going to be a nice routine") can teach the gymnasts to devalue
themselves and their accomplishments which obviously carries over into
The NPR reporter also said that as soon as Shannon was done with a trick,
she looked anxiously at Steve, got her comments, and then "her face
dissolved into anguish" to which Shannon replies that she just can't
tolerate making mistakes and she gets upset about it. (Steve calls her the
"original chicken little", meaning that the sky falls as soon as anything
goes wrong. I am not surprised after spending so long with him that she
takes mistakes pretty hard.) It cannot be healthy psychologically to spend
eight hours a day being anguished with yourself, with your efforts never
being enough, even considering that you are the reigning world champion.
When do these gymnasts get to feel satisfied with themselves? It is true
that no one seemed very happy at the 92 games except perhaps Wendy Bruce,
the Unified team, and isolated others (including flashes of joy from Kim
Zmeskal, who always seemed to enjoy competing even when it wasn't going
well, and Shannon after the all-around). Everybody else seemed to have a
work face on, even after the competition was over.
Jennie Thompson states the gymnastics is her whole life. She prefers the
gym to school and doesn't feel comfortable around her non-gymnast peers as
she says they "ignore her." While perhaps such dedication is necessary to
become a great champion at the world level, it scares me to hear it.
Kristie Phillips once thought the same thing. Then she *failed* in her
opinoin at what was "her whole life". What are you left with when the
gymnastics is over, or when it doesn't go as well as you want? Apparently
nothing. Kristie managed to build another life for herself, but it appears
to have been a nasty process. If your entire self-worth gets tied up in one
activity, it seems that you are in great danger if that activity doesn't
fulfill your expectations, especially when you are so young that you don't
yet know that time heals your wounds and other interests open up to you as
you get older and more experienced. Jennie's mom said that their whole
family life had been sacrificed to Jennie's talent, and that her son (16)
really resented it. No doubt. Is being good at something really worth
damaging one of your children because another wants to compete in
gymnastics. The son lives with the father. Jennie's mother exists to help
with her training. By the way, she had some heel malformation (I forget the
disease name) that kept her out of nationals and world trials. She recently
had surgery on it to put a screw in that should help.
The other thing that bothered me was Steve's comments about how he teaches
and the gymnasts perform. He expects no talking during workouts and no
input from the gymnasts themselves on any aspect of coaching or performing.
I think this is extremely unhealthy. Women's voices are devalued enough in
this society without teaching adolescent females that whatever they have to
say is irrelevant and they should silently listen. Needless to say, that
also teaches them to be silent when they are in pain, to deny their own
thoughts and feelings about what they are doing. No doubt that makes them
easier to coach, and obviously there are examples of those who seem to
withstand such methods without ever letting their own sense of themselves
be diminished. But it must systematically undermine their self-esteem and
sense of self-worth.
Given examples like Kelli Hill and Mary Lee Tracy who IMHO show that such
coaching methods are not necessary to produce great gymnasts, a critical
evaluation of the methods seems reasonable. In the 92 trials, Tracy
congratulated Amanda Borden on a good choice of vault and making a good
decision. Obviously having your own choices validated would be far
healthier psychologically than to silently accept all direction from a
dictatorial coach. Joan Ryan goes too far and seems to hint that gymnastics
ought to be abolished as a very high-level competitive sport. I think
there's nothing wrong with the sport per se, but certain coaching methods
do seem to negatively influence the social and psychological development of
the gymnasts and appear to be worth some investigation. And I think
defenders of the sport would do better to acknowledge these problems and
work on minimizing them than to dismiss the criticisms as just bad
reporting. The casual attitude Steve had when he said that *of course*
gymnasts compete injured because you can't help when a competition is
scheduled really scares me. He didn't seem aware that these were kids he
was dealing with, that lasting problems could result, that teaching them to
deny or ignore their pain also teaches them to ignore other feelings, etc.
The NPR piece was fair. It presented both sides I think, but it amazes me
that Steve and his gymnasts seemed unaware of how controversial some of
their comments appear to the rest of us.
Jill Conway (jconway@.uiuc.edu)
UIUC College of Medicine
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 12:22:02 -0700
When are the trials going to be on tv.???? Thanks!!! Bye!!!
Margi and Mardi :)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 14:33:40 -0600
Subject: Good Coaching Strategy, etc.
I have to agree with Jill about Kelli Hill and Mary Lee Tracey. One of the
deepest moments I have seen in gymnastics was when Dawes missed her vault
in Birmingham and she was ain tears and Kelli said that she should be happy
because she never thought that she would be that close to winning and she
should get back on the podium and wave to the crowd. Talk about taking a
horrible situation and making the best of it for her gymnast. She's great,
and I wish that she would have been a coach for Sabae.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 18:42:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Olympic Festival
>You could have a different Olympic sport competed in a different city >each
weekend of the month.
Actually they did something very much like that in 1990. They called it the
"Olympic Cup" and over one weekend different Int'l Olympic events were held
in different cities around the country.
The gymnastics was held in Salt Lake City, and despite about 2 people in the
audiance (the event was *very* poorly promoted) the level of competition was
very high. For the Soviet Union a very young Oksana Chusovitna and Rustam
Sharipov made their first appearances in the US and both went home winners.
There was a 2 per country rule and most nations sent 2 athletes. There were
also representatives from East Germany (they competed as the GDR until '91
Worlds), West Germany, Canada, Cuba, & Great Britian as well as 2 men and 2
women from the USA (all World Champ team members from '89).
Unfortunately, I think that the overall venture was a huge financial failure
and it never happened again which is a shame because it would have been a
great addition to our thin Int'l calander.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 18:53:25 -0400
Subject: How to Order Transcripts (was Re: NPR Spot)
For those of you on AOL you can order NPR transcripts or tapes for "All
Things Considered" online at keyword "NPR."
Transcripts are $10 per program, plus $1.50 S&H. Audio cassettes are $12.95
per program, plus $2.50 S&H. You order by either check or credit card. It
says that they don't accept orders via e-mail but I'm sure that you could
order via regular mail. The information for check ordering is as follows
(taken from the NPR area on AOL) ...
To order NPR tapes or transcripts by check or money order:
(i) print the form below
(ii) fill out the form.
(iii) mail it with your check/money order to:
NPR Tapes and Transcripts
635 Massacusetts Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20001
Make your check payable to: NPR Tapes and Transcripts
NPR ORDER FORM
I) *PROGRAM INFORMATION*
Program Name: ___________________________________________
Program Date (Month, Day, Year): ________________________
Specific Subject or Topic: ______________________________
Format __ Tape ($12.95 + $2.50 S&H)
__ Transcript ($10 + $1.50 S&H)*
*NOTE: Cost for series tapes/transcripts may be different. If you have
questions, please call NPR's Audience Services at 202-414-3232, M-F, 10-5 ET.
II) *MAILING INFORMATION*
Street Address: ___________________________________________
City, State, Zip: ___________________________________________
Daytime Phone: (___) ____-______
-posted by Susan
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:42:37 -0400
Subject: Rick Newman
If anyone knows Rick Newman at Dynamo Gymnastics have him drop Raija a line
at this address.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 1995 22:46:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Olympic Festival
>>You could have a different Olympic sport competed in a different =
>>weekend of the month.
>Actually they did something very much like that in 1990. They called it =
>"Olympic Cup" and over one weekend different Int'l Olympic events were =
>in different cities around the country.
>The gymnastics was held in Salt Lake City, and despite about 2 people =
>audiance (the event was *very* poorly promoted) the level of =
I think the Olympic Cup still had a larger audience than this year's =
men's USA-UKR. ;) From what I remember, wasn't the entire competition =
set up as an informal "us v. them" meet? The USA, CAN and CUB formed an =
Americas team, competing against the European team. But it *would* have =
been nice if it had (1) received more publicity and (2) become an annual =
End of GYMN-L Digest - 22 Sep 1995 to 23 Sep 1995 - Special issue