GYMN-L Digest - 23 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 21 messages totalling 606 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. NBC Fluff (was Re: MAG and Mihai)
  2. NBC-ackkkkkkk!!!!!
  3. newest train workers....:(
  4. Various Tidbits
  5. Please help!
  6. leos and MAG
  8. Leos
  9. Leo's
 10. Women's leos
 11. (Fwd) Question re: Boginskaya on compulsory beam
 12. leos and MAG (fwd) (2)
 13. More leo's
 14. Olympic comments #863
 15. scherbo
 16. Women's Optionals -- first goup so far
 17. American Crowds (2)
 18. US individual standings
 19. Saadi


Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 04:40:22 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: NBC Fluff (was Re: MAG and Mihai)

> P.S. What on earth was that godawful fluff piece about the Civil War?? Was
> it just me or did that seem to go on FOREVER?!?!?!  :D

This is the Olympics, NBC-style, and obviously these incessant cheesy
vignettes -- especially one about something which happened over 200 years
ago -- are *so* much more important than the actual sporting events.



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:58:51 -0500
From:    ***@PO-BOX.MCGILL.CA
Subject: Re: NBC-ackkkkkkk!!!!!

>I have had it . Does anyone know if Frank Endo or USA Gymnastics is going
>to offer tapes of the Olympics, so we finally might get to see some of it?
... Beth, if you're
>reading this and know anything about buying tapes of it, PLEASE MAIL ME.
        Do not get fooled by NBC's post-Olympic offer for tapes.  I did back
in 1988 and by God, it will never happen again.  They are expensive and
worthless. Routines were not even shown in their entirity which is from my
point of view, not only the worst lack of respect to the sport, but also the
worst insult to any gymner deserving that name.

        Theses tapes were nothing more than what was shown on TV.  Me too, I
purchased them with the expectation that I will get what I missed and thereby
learn more about what *really* went on.  If anyone remembers, the Seoul games
were broadcast with the time lag with gymnastics going from midnight to 2 AM
!!!  They showed nothing more than the 2 gymnasts battleling for the AA title:
the Soviet Elena Shushunova and the Romanian Daniella Silivas. The rest of the
36 gymnasts who also qualified for the AA did not exit !!!

        So, they wrapped up a full evening of gymnastics morsel by morsel, a
few routines here and there with lots of commercials. Really frustrating
considering that from 22:00 hrs to midnight, they would show the "Dream Team"
relaxing by playing golf and some anchor visiting a restaurant and asking for
the menu to be translated in English, no commercial.  Quite pitiful to say the

        Unfortunately, with the numerous messages bitching about the lousiness
of the NBC coverage, one cannot help but reach the sad conclusion that they do
not improve with time... It would be a mistake to rely on post-Olympic tapes
offered by NBC.



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 05:23:56 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: newest train workers....:(

> Date:    Mon, 22 Jul 1996 12:24:44 +0100
> Subject: Mo Huilan and Li Xiaoshuang
> I have a feeling the Chinese government will find new jobs for these two
> working on the railroad in a rural province.
> I love them both and almost cried when Li's hand went through the ring.

I know what you mean.  Both my mom and me almost had a heart attack when
we saw that.

I am 32 and remember watching the Eastern Block countries compete.  My
friends and I would yell at the TV either

-Think Gulag

-Think Siberia

-Think street sweeper

and get ulcers that our favorites wouldn't totally bomb and "disgrace"
their country.

I found out later, doing a report on the Russian sports machine, we
weren't too far off the mark saying those things.



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:18:48 GMT
From:    ***@UNANOV.UNA.EDU
Subject: Various Tidbits

Just a note to reply to various postings:

  The post from *** was uncalled for!!!!!  Where's our

  The use of white leos is very popular - it is suppose to show off
  the "rub board" stomach of the gymnasts.

  John Tesh is driving me crazy.  My 12 year old competitive gymnast
  made the comment she could probably announce better than he can!

  Here's hoping for MEDALS tonight for the USA!



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:14:09 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Please help!

My heart's broken in seventeen places.  The power went out before my VCRs
could tape the women's compulsories from Sunday.  Anybody have all the four
sessions that they could UPS to me?  I heard NBC did some nice features on
Kimber and big Dom.  aaaaargh!!!  It doesn't have to be edited; I'd be happy
with the raw 10 1/2 hours of footage.  Send me your address and cost if you
can cheer me up.  Thanks very, very much (in advance).



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:12:44 -0400
From:    ***@UNHF.UNH.EDU
Subject: leos and MAG

Just an opinion on white leos...
our gym's compulsory leo is mostly white and the girls wearing it range in age
from 7-14. Most of them hate the white because it does show EVERYTHING. We are
changing to a leo with a darker background solely because of the gymnasts'
complaints -- it inhibits their performance when they are self-concious about
how they look. Perhaps they lose that discomfort when they're elite level, but
I would doubt it (IMO).

As for the men, HURRAH!!! For a team I heard bashed repeatedly on this list
over the past six months, they did a terrific job staying in the top 6! I had
been convinced by list discussions that they didn't even have a chance to place
in the top six, and I think they proved a lot of people wrong. They have some
work still to do, particularly on pommel horse, but watch out at the 97


PS: Let's go, MAG7!!!!!!


Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:16:12 +0000

I'm a lurker whose come out of the shadows to voice my opinion about one
thing that really irritates me.  What's the deal with Dawes?  I think she's
the most ignored gymnast in American history.  I've never heard of someone
accomplishing so much and getting so little of the spotlight.  She's set all
kinds of records during her career, has been as high as 4th in the world,
has never let the team down in any competion, is a World medalist, an
Olympic medalist yet she's treated as a non entity in any discussion of
gymnastics I've ever observed.  I loved the piece NBC did on her.  It
really caught her spirit.  I felt she was something special the first time I
ever saw her perform.  I was glad to see someone else felt the same way
about her I did.

As long as I'm out on this limb, I might as well give my opinion of a few
other things:

John Tesch is the most irritating announcer on the face of the earth.  Are
we going to here about Scherbo's wife's accident on every apparatus?

The Romanians look slow, tired, and nervous.  What happened to the great
gymnastics dynasty?

Lastly, I miss the triplecast.

I'll go back in the shadows now.
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.


Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:19:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Leos

The obvious reason for using white leotards (at least it was the reason
while I was cojmpeting) is so te chalk marks won't show.


Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:29:41 +0100
From:    ***@WLV.AC.UK
Subject: Leo's

Just a little thought from a non-gymnast

Don't  teams favour white leo's as they don't show up  the  chalk
marks so commonly seen on the little crushed velvet numbers?




Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:51:19 -0400
From:    ***@GROVE.IUP.EDU
Subject: Women's leos

If I were a gymnast, I would prefer a colored leo. Chalk marks or no.

We can see the chalk on their legs, what's the difference?


Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:56:45 +0000
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: (Fwd) Question re: Boginskaya on compulsory beam

> Granted, it probably wasn't the best compulsory BB she could
> have done, but she certainly didn't do that badly.  Did she have

Actually, Bogi could have done a far better compulsory as she made several
mistakes that were imperceptible to the untrained eye.  For example, I did
not know (but I learned soon after) that on the forward roll at the beginning
of the beam routine, the gymnast must "mark" the vertical shoulderstand
position; from what I was told (which I have to rely on, since I didn't know
to look for it when I was watching her routine), Bogi completely missed this
position, bending her legs before hitting the vertical.  Also, for example,
if the gymnast does not completely connect the three elements of the valdez
pass on beam, it is a .2 deduction.  (This is partly why the Romanians
scored low on beam... mistakes like this which aren't even wobbles, per se,
and thus not noticeable as the other glaring mistakes.)



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 11:14:34 EDT
From:    ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: leos and MAG (fwd)

Lynanne said:

>Just an opinion on white leos...
>our gym's compulsory leo is mostly white and the girls wearing it range in age
>from 7-14. Most of them hate the white because it does show EVERYTHING. We are
>changing to a leo with a darker background solely because of the gymnasts'
>complaints -- it inhibits their performance when they are self-concious about
>how they look. Perhaps they lose that discomfort when they're elite level, but
>I would doubt it (IMO).

At the podium training (optionals), I thought the Hungarian team had the best
looking leotards and the color (red) really emphasized their tans.  Do they
have tanning salons in Hungary?  :-)

>As for the men, HURRAH!!! For a team I heard bashed repeatedly on this list
>over the past six months, they did a terrific job staying in the top 6! I had

I was very proud of the men gymnasts and congratulate them on their 5th place
finish at the Olympics.  There are areas for improvement (like sticking the
landings on their vaults!) but overall they did a great job.

Nothing to do with Lynanne's posting....................................
I hesitate to mention this, but I've really gotten tired of all of
the NBC bashing.  Considering the fact that it is the OLYMPICS and there
are a million and one sporting events that they have to cover, IMO the men's
gymnastics event got decent coverage last night.  I also think it is VERY
naive on our part to NOT expect NBC to focus on the U.S. gymnasts.  People
can complain all they want but the majority of the people turning in to
watch the Olympics in the U.S. want to see U.S. athletes -- in every sport.

Even thought I love gymnastics, I also become an Olympics' junkie
every four years and therefore enjoy watching some of the more
obscure sporting events just because of the dedication/drama involved
in the athletes participating in the Olympics.  However limited the
coverage of gymnastics may be to some people on the List, at least
it is in prime time as opposed to being shown at the 12:00 - 2:00
a.m. broadcast.  I also enjoy volleyball but had to wait until
after midnight to see the U.S. women's team play.  Granted it wasn't
the finals but gymnastics (men/women) will definitely get the majority
of the prime-time coverage during the all-arounds and individual
events during the next few days.

I guess this is just a long-winded/incoherent way of saying that NBC cer-
tainly can't please everyone (myself included) & I'm sure there's some family
in mid-America who is very upset that their son/daughter's performance
in fencing/archery/rifle shooting etc. hasn't been covered by NBC
during the Olympics.  And personally, I would sympathize a whole lot more
with them than with any of the complaints I've read on the List during the
last few days.



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 16:36:45 +0100
From:    ***@WLV.AC.UK
Subject: More leo's

Sorry  to labour the point, but whether it was just the  rubbishy
broadcast  quality, and, quite plainly, I was not there, but  the
fabric  that the USA's leos are made of, you cannot see  anything
through them. I understand - I wouldn't wear a dress that  showed
off my Hanes knickers!!! and it is all the same asking a  gymnast
to  wear  something which shows the few parts of her  body  which
are traditionally covered up!

On  this note - not wanting to leave the blokes out of it  -  did
anyone  else think that the Belurussian (sp.) team  men's  outfit
looked very dirty/off-white?

Please  no  message  about this being besides the point  -  I  do
understand  that the technical merit is more important  than  all
this clothing talk....

Just in jest....lets lighten up for the Olympic Torch!!!




Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:41:53 -0300
From:    ***@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: Re: Olympic comments #863

Someone commented that the US women were being treated like princesses.  One
of the Australian commentators mentioned that the team had 8 coaches on the
floor, instead of the allowed 2.  Is this correct?  The general feeling
seemed to be that this was not fair to the other teams.

It's essentially right. The 2 olympic coaches are on the floor with
access to the girls, of course, but all the other coaches have immediate
access to the girls too, because they're allowed to stand behind a waist
high barrier made of cloth and talk to and cheer for the girls. I am not
against this, but am against other countries not having this luxury. For
example, the Canadian men had 2 coaches with them, and Kris Burley's
coach was left behind in Canada. In Atlanta, during the optionals Burley
was alone during his rotations, and commented that this was troublesome
for him. I can't see any reason why Burley's coach couldn't have come if
the USA girls can have eight of them at hand. It's true that's it's home
territory so the American caoches don't have to travel, so economically I
see how all coaches coming could be a problem along the way. Lisa

I am not saying that Millar shouldn't be standing with Nunno, I am saying
everyone should have that right and privilege.


Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:07:13 -0300
From:    ***@CCN.CS.DAL.CA
Subject: scherbo

        OK, this is driving me nuts almost as much as Tesh himself. Is
this name pronounced with an 'a' at the end? If not, why is Tesh
pronouncing it as scherba? If so, why is Daggett pronoucing is scherbo?

        Some one mentioned mailing NBC wioth Tesh complaints...I have
been part of a mass email complint spree that ended well once. If
everyone emailed at the same time, and NBC was flooding with it, they'd
NOTICE. However, I am betting Tesh has that something called a contract :(

On the weight issue, I mostly...ok whole heartedly agree with Joy, but
one pout on my part - I'm still the same size *whine* I am forever stuck
with thunder thighs and no upper body. Pardon me if this is indiscreet
but I am tired of explaining to cashiers why I can't find a bra to fit.
Does anyone else have this problem or is it just me? My cup size and
chest size just don't go together. Sports bras forever I guess. Damn
laterals or whatever they're called.

                                        Keep gymning, Lisa


Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:26:42 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Women's Optionals -- first goup so far

So far CBC and SRC have shown the first three rotations of
Women's Optionals, group one.

The first rotation featured Yvonne Tousek on vault, where she
scored a 9.487 on the first one and 9.500 on the second one!
She performed a cuervo which she is competing for the first
time, I think.  Jennifer Exaltacion and a German gymnasts were
also shown.  Unfortunately, Shanyn McEachern fell off the beam
and got a low score.

The second rotation had Yvonne on bars, where she performed
a good Yeager (sp?), but on the Hindorff to pak salto she had
trouble and her feet touched the floor.  She may also have received
a deduction for having two coaches on the podium when she began.
She wound up with a 9.000. :(  Chusovitina hit a decent routine
on bars and got a 9.612, and Exaltacion got a 9.2 something.

The third rotation had Yvonne on beam, where she did an
excellent routing, including a front handspring front salto and
some interesting choreography.  She had a step on her dismount
but got a 9.575!!!! :)  Chusovitina fell off the beam and got scored
in the 8 range.  Exaltacion hit a pretty good routine with a few
bobbles and got a 9.2 something.

Sorry the scores aren't very accurate.

Tousek only has floor left to be shown.  Hopefully she'll hit a good
routine and have a chance to make the top 36.  That would be
excellent for Canada and for her.

On a side note, I think I really like Elvira Sadi (sp?) as a coach.
She seems to be very supportive of Tousek, almost like a mother!
She's done incredible things with Yvonne -- before 1995 I had never
even seen her before, but now she's leading the Canadian team.
Does anyone know anything else about Elvira?  I know she
competed for the USSR, but that's about it.



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:45:52 -0400
From:    ***@COMET.NET
Subject: Re: American Crowds

At 01:07 AM 7/23/96 -0400, Jordynn wrote:
>I was just wondering if any of the Americans on the list were
>getting sick of the crowds at the Georgia Dome (and other
>venues) chanting "USA USA USA..(ad nauseum)" every two

Yes, I'm an American and am totally sick of over-patriotism and hype.  I
took a vacation day at work in hopes of getting a high quality tape of other
countrys' team optionals and all NBC is showing are Americans in other sports.

I'm really disappointed by the Chinese women's performance and really
excited about the Russian women's.  Those teams are the best in my opinion,
since I value artistry, perfect form and inividuality.

Yeah, I tend to root for Americans, especially Shannon Miller, who has done
so much for US gymnasics, but still I want the best to win.  If Shannon hits
four for four perfectly, though, she's got a chance.  Her routines are
beautiful and as Svetlana Boguinskaya once said, gymnastics is all about beauty.

But I also want Mo Huilan to win, or Dina Kochetkova.  And wouldn't it be
wonderful if Svetlana Boguinskaya made the top five?  More than anything, I
want to see the Chinese, French, Greek and Spanish teams and I'm afraid I
won't see any of them.



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:41:14 -0400
Subject: Re: American Crowds

Dear Jordynn,

No, I do not get tired of it.  If I were there I'd be screaming it right
along with everyone else!  I would, however, stop to catch my breath and
cheer great routines from whomever was out there.

I was disappointed NBC didn't choose to show us many routines other than the
Americans.  We got only a glimpse at the medal teams and Scherbo.  Did he
compete for Belarus all by himself?  Did Bulgaria show up?  Did the other 6
teams bother to compete?  Couldn't prove it by NBC.  I thought it especially
interesting that the American men went straight from High Bar to Pommel
Horse.  No Floor Ex!?

As far as American Nationalism, I make no apologies for my countrymen
)excuse me, to be PC I guess that should be "countrypersons").  When I
attended the 1991 World Championships in Indianapolis (I have difficulty as
a Kentuckian conceding that Indiana is in the US, but I'm told that it is),
the vast majority of the crowd was presumably US - BUT you'd never know it
during the men's competition.  We sat beside the Swiss delegation which all
the local media acknowledged as having won the cheering competition.  The
cries of "Haupt Suise!" rang much more loudly than "USA".  The cowbells,
rhythym cheers, and waving flags were great as well.  After the comps, one
of the US competitors said to me, "I wish the Americans would act more like
the Swiss".  So, before the optionals, my wife and I bought 250 US flags and
passed them out.  It was a heartwarming moment for me personally when I saw
the team members each holding one of those flags at the post competition
news conference.  Anyway, I digress.  I do not criticize anyone for vocal
support of their nation's representatives.  There just happen to be more
Americans in Atlanta.  I'm real tired of this bad rap about ugly Americans.
I won't go into the problems I run into with citizens of other countries
because I believe in exhibiting respect to *all* people, regardless of race,
religion, or national origin.  Hmm... that sounds like a very AMERICAN concept.


>I was just wondering if any of the Americans on the list were
>getting sick of the crowds at the Georgia Dome (and other
>venues) chanting "USA USA USA..(ad nauseum)" every two
>I have nothing against the American team, and its great that
>they are supported, but I really think the crowd could tone
>it down a bit and maybe cheer for some of the other gymnasts
>a bit more.


Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:53:47 -0400
From:    ***@POND.COM
Subject: US individual standings

After the compulsories, Shannon Miller is second behind Lilia Podkopeyeva (sp).
Dominique Moceanu is in 5th and Kerri Strug is in 9th.  I hope this
information is correct since I got it from the paper.  Happy watching!



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:55:14 -0400
Subject: Re: leos and MAG (fwd)

>I guess this is just a long-winded/incoherent way of saying that NBC cer-
>tainly can't please everyone (myself included) & I'm sure there's some family
>in mid-America who is very upset that their son/daughter's performance
>in fencing/archery/rifle shooting etc. hasn't been covered by NBC
>during the Olympics.  And personally, I would sympathize a whole lot more
>with them than with any of the complaints I've read on the List during the
>last few days.

Beth, you are absolutely correct.  Thanks for reminding me of that.  I will
be more charitable in my thoughts on NBC.



Date:    Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:56:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Saadi

Elvira Saadi, if my memory is correct, also coached Tatiana Groshkova of
the USSR in the early 1990's.  G{|-croshkova was a daring and talented
gymnast but never really consistent enough to represent the USSR on one
of the world or olympic teams.  Like Tousek, Groshkova had original and
wonderful dance on Floor...Saadi msust be doing something right!  (In
case you're having a hard timre remembering tatiana, she was the tiny
gymnast who performed a back-handspring sideways on the beam, kind of
like a yurchenko loop but coming back to her feet, and she had a great
double-double on floor).


End of GYMN-L Digest - 23 Jul 1996 - Special issue