GYMN-L Digest - 22 Jun 1996 - Special issue

There are 15 messages totalling 616 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. MAG: GER/ROM/SUI intl
  2. driving to Fleet center
  3. US cable TV alert: Chinese training footage
  4. General question... (2)
  5. petitioning (long)
  6. Directions to the Fleet Center
  7. Pod's Floor Music
  8. Elfie
  9. USAG Congress Announcements
 10. Rhythmic Worlds (Day Two)
 11. Old Results desired
 12. Appendicitis
 13. tv show with spot on Meng Fei
 14. Olympic Trials Tickets for sale!  Last chance!


Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 07:09:16 -0400
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: MAG: GER/ROM/SUI intl

GER/ROM/SUI 1996 international mens meet

Berlin, Germany         21 June, 1996

1. Romania      564.600

(Nicu Stroia, Marius Urzica, Nicolae Bejenaru, Adrian Ianculescu,
 Cristian Leric, Nistor Sandro, Robert Taciulet)

2. Germany      563.525

(Andreas Wecker, Peter Nikiferow, Valeri Belenki, Oliver Walther,
 Mario Franke, Karsten Oelsch, Andreas Feigel)

3. Switzerland  544.385

(Donghua Li, Dieter Rehm, Michael Engeler, Martin Banzer,
 Erich Wanner, Felipe Andres, Martin Fuchs)



Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 11:05:19 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: driving to Fleet center

Hello all GYMNERS going to the Trials:

I used to live in Boston, but my driving in town is a bit rusty because it's
been a while.  Does anyone know the best way to get to the Fleet Center
either from the Mass. Pike or Storrow Drive (I''ll be staying in Newton)?  Is
the best thing to do to go to the parking garage near government center by
going to the end of Storrow and taking the Charles St. exit?  I'm not sure
exactly where the Fleet Center is.

I'd appreciate any help!  You can E-mail me driectly at ***,
unless it would be beneficial to the list to post directions.




Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 12:49:03 -0400
From:    ***@EROLS.COM
Subject: US cable TV alert: Chinese training footage

The discovery channel's "Ultimate Athlete:  Pushing the Limit," though not
described as such in my newspaper guide, includes tons of footage of the
Chinese women's gymanstics program, from kindergarten on up.  The show is by
no means just gymnastics -- I also saw snippets of Chinese training
techniques in table tennis and women's weightlifting, and Australian sprint
cycling -- but there are at least two lengthy segments on the gymnastics, and
it looks to be the anchor of the show.  There are tons of shots of gymnasts
practicing in Beijing; and even when there are voiceovers discussing overall
implications, they rarely cut away from the footage.  They have extended
interviews with national team coaches and with Meng Fei (and long segments of
her practices -- not the usual fluff stuff, though I'm sure the Chinese govt
approved much of the packaging, but real excerpts evoking what it's like to
drill -- the pros and cons of perfecting new skills).  Some footage from
Sabae (Meng missing a Gaylord on bars, sticking a vault); some fast front
tumbling in Beijing (handspring, front) off beam, etc.  I highly recommend
checking it out.  I think I'll tape it tonight, and I'm really not much of a

In my time zone, they're running it twice today, at 11 and at 8.

As long as I'm talking tv:  USAIGC championships was on last night -- they
made a real effort to show as many gymnasts as possible, which was nice to
see (although we saw three routines each from Vanessa Rutherford and
Stephanie Carter (wow! great talent, and she really looks like she's having
fun), we only saw one each from just about everybody else, including Alexis
Brion (floor) and Gail Kachura (bars)).  The commentators, except for Kristi
Kraft (sp?) talked about everything but the routines during the routines, but
otherwise were helpful (and I certainly don't begrudge the need to plug the
venue).  In light of critiques of nationals -- the gymnasts looked like they
were having a great time, and enjoying the team format.  Interestingly, I
thought that overall, the choreography in this meet, at least in the
televised routines, looked better than that at nationals -- much less cutesy
stuff, a lot of grace, etc.  Kraft particularly liked Gymcarolina's style,
and the commentators noted that the strength extended down to the level 8's,
with every girl showing an individualized routine and well-developed grace.
I agreed with that assessment on floor, but I also particularly liked
Verdugo's style, and the only polished routine that I didn't particularly
care for -- though I recognized its quality -- was Shannon Watt's for
American Twisters (too cutesy for me, but you can't argue with the tumbling,
and Kristi liked it better than the more serious fare (& the judges gave it
9.825)).  (Sorry, Shannon, if you're listening -- let's just chalk it up to
taste!  I have no problems with gymnasts using styles like this so long as
it's not the only thing going.)  College fans will be pleased to know
that they put in major plugs for continuing college programs. Hope it helps.



Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:27:25 EST
From:    ***@MMC.MARYMT.EDU
Subject: General question...

Hi gang!

I'm just interested in opinions here.

 1. What do you think separates a great gymnast from a good gymnast?
 2. What (IYO) is a gymnast?

 Thanks in advance for all your help!!!

 Nikki =]


Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 14:47:59 -0400
From:    ***@EROLS.COM
Subject: petitioning (long)

I wonder to what extent the debate over individual petitions (and what the
rules should be) is really a philosophical debate about what making the
Olympic team ought to be about.  Some folks seem to view it as, at least in
part, a reward for past performance; others purely as one that should be
based entirely on rules that will, if properly designed, enable the U.S. to
send a team most likely to produce the best possible result in a particular
week in July.  Granted, past performance (at least recent past performance)
is a pretty good measure of future prospects; and exposure to international
competition is, for the vast majority, a big help in handling the pressure.
Taking past results into account may be essential to finding the right mix of
consistency under pressure combined with willingness to take risks with tough
tricks that, when successful, produce a higher score.

But -- to make my own biases clear, if they are not already -- I think that
while it can be heartrending when a gymnast who has performed well for the
U.S. in the past is too injured, or has peaked at the wrong time, to be the
best choice for the Olympics, a gymnast who, whether due to better luck, or
better planning (i.e., who has trained with the time line, and the need to
prevent injuries in order to preserve long-term health and ability to
compete, more carefully in mind), is in better form for the Olympics should
get the nod.

On reflection, I think the rules actually seem pretty well-designed to take
this into account.  Although I was at first irritated at the Moceanu
petition, and although I am not sure that the counting a score from another
meet technique is the best approach (though it's probably better than the
limbo approach of previous years, for the gymnast who is next in line) -- if
we think that despite the injury, she is still solidly in the top 7, though
probably no longer in the top 3, then what's so wrong with sending her, so
long as the rules are not changed at the last minute to allow for this?  I
think my own initial objections were to the hype and the suggestion that her
being on the team -- and indeed the star of the team -- was preordained; and
it may be that politics will land her on the team despite an injury that
creates too great a doubt about her ability to compete as well as the gymnast
who just missed the team.  I don't feel competent to assess the real impact
of the injury; and I think it would be better to have a rule that placed an
athlete like Miller or Moceanu on the team, but contingent on demonstrating
that she was on reasonable track to perform well at the games, with everybody
else's position secure, in rank order, and those just missing guaranteed any
opened-up spots if recovery does not come about.  I'm also inclined to agree
that it was probably unwise to train her so hard and to prime her for this
Olympics rather than for the next, and that this may be precisely why she is
injured now, putting both her own fate (at these games) and that of the
team's, at some risk.  Both she and the team would be better off if she'd
peaked this year rather than last, though she would not have benefited from
the pre-games hype.  But -- as for whether it's such a terrible thing to
compete with such a stress fracture -- it's not as though this will be
disabling in the future & the Olympics only comes along once every 4
years; I don't see anything wrong with letting Dominique, her family, her
coaches and her doctors, rather than USAG, deciding whether it is best for
her to go, so long as she can do the job.

I asked earlier about Junior National team petitions -- a matter which I'm
even more open to philosophically, as I see this is a developmental program
as well as a reward for past achievement at a particular meet.  Well, the
USAG site has updated its national team rosters, and I see that Breanne
Rutherford, Carri Nagle, and Mina Kim are all unranked members of the
national team.  So I guess petitions for this are ok.  Good!  While on the
junior team theme, I'll throw in my congrats to Vanessa Atler.  Your
grandparents would have been so proud of you!  Not just at how beautifully
you performed, but also at how well you've handled such a difficult time.  I
know I've found your efforts and your attitude, as well as your beautiful
gymnastics, inspirational.  (Your friend and teammate Jamie Dantzscher is a
favorite of mine as well).

--Ann (sorry so longwinded today!)


Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 15:00:29 -0400
Subject: Directions to the Fleet Center

Here is the URL for the directions:

If you don't have WWW access:

>From the North:
>From central New Hampshire and northwestern
Follow Interstate 93 South to Boston.
Take Exit 26/Storrow Drive.
Bear right at the fork, and follow the signs toward North Station.
At the traffic light, take a right onto Nashua Street.
The FleetCenter will be immediately on your left.

>From eastern New Hampshire and northeastern Massachusetts:
Take Interstate 95 South to Route 1 South.
Follow Route 1 across the Tobin Bridge and merge onto
Interstate 93.
Take Exit 26/Storrow Drive.
Bear right at the fork and follow the signs toward North Station.
At the traffic lights take a right onto Nashua Street.
The FleetCenter will be immediately on your left.

>From the South:
Follow Interstate 95 North to Interstate 93 toward Boston.
Then take Exit 25...Causeway Street.
At the bottom of the ramp, take a left.
Drive past the Boston Garden and the Tip O'Neill Federal Building;
take a right onto Nashua Street.
The FleetCenter is behind the Tip O'Neill Building and Boston Garden.

>From the West:
Follow the Massachusetts Turnpike (Route 90) to
Route 93 North Expressway to Boston.
Take Exit 25...Causeway Street.
At the bottom of the ramp, take a left.
Drive past the Boston Garden and the Tip O'Neill Federal Building;
take a right onto Nashua Street.
The FleetCenter is behind the Tip O'Neill Building and Boston Garden.
Public Transportation:
The FleetCenter is located in downtown Boston on Causeway Street near
Boston's historic north end.

Green & Orange Lines:
Take either line to the North Station stop which brings you into the

Red Line:
Take the Red Line to the Park Street stop and switch to the Green Line
eastbound (3 stops) to the North Station stop
which brings you into the FleetCenter.

Blue Line:
Take the Blue Line to the Government Center stop and then switch to the
Green Line Eastbound (2 stops) to the North
Station stop which brings you into the FleetCenter.

Commuter Rail: FleetCenter can be reached by the Purple
Line stopping at North Station. Escalators at North Station
will take you directly into the FleetCenter.


Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 15:15:14 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: Pod's Floor Music

>>>Podkopaeva's new floor is to cuts from the overture to Rossini's  opera,
>>"The Barber of Seville." And BTY, the series of turns she performs near the
>>end are called 'fouette' turns, NOT forte turns. A forte turn would be a
>>loud turn.
>As a dancer I found PODKOPAEVAS floor routine awesome! In
>addition to the fouettes she also does entrachat quatre, which is
>the small beaten jump after the fouettes. One criticism about
>the fouettes, however is that she doesn't "spot".  Spotting
>when turning prevents you from getting dizzy and also
>makes the turns look more dramatic.
>Lilia has obviously had some excellent dance training.  She
>would make an excellent dancer if she weren't a gymnast!


Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 15:21:57 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: General question...

>Hi gang!
>I'm just interested in opinions here.
> 1. What do you think separates a great gymnast from a good gymnast?




Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 13:37:01 -0600
From:    ***@SUPERNET.AB.CA
Subject: Elfie

I have been watching all the competitions from the last few years.  I also
watched worlds 91-95.  I think that Elfie, if I spelled that right, says:

It doesn't get much better than that......   way to much.

But I think it is funny how the system is changing.  In 91, Christina Bontas
and Ozanna Chu, both did full twisting double layouts.  Now, that is as big
as a couple front twisting passes.  Does anyone know where you can get the
97 code for women?



Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 15:29:50 +0000
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: USAG Congress Announcements

Steve Whitlock, USA Gymnastics Congress Manager has provided the following

     1. Presentation schedule
          The Congress Proceedings Book that all Congress attendees will
          receive upon registration includes a complete schedule of all
          Congress presentations as of our print deadline of June 20, 1996.
          The schedule in the Proceedings Book has already had some MINOR
          adjustments since the printing date as a result of last minute
          changes in the Olympic Trials competition and training schedules.
          Since several of the Congress Presenters are involved in the Olympic
          Trials competition in various capacities (coaches, judges, etc.) it
          has been necessary to change their Congress presentation times

          Please be sure to check the bulletin board provided near the
          Congress Registration Desk daily for any changes in the schedule.
          For example,
               -the session by Bela Karolyi is now scheduled in the Hynes
               Convention Center Auditorium on Sunday June 30 from 10:30-11:30
               -the session by G. Pozsar is now schedule in a room to be
               determined for Sunday June 30 in the session offered after the
               lunch break.

     2. Security control for the Ceremony of Honors and Congress
          The annual Ceremony of Honors is not a ticketed event. Attendance is
          open to all Congress attendees and Olympic Trials participants.

          Attendance at the annual Congress Banquet, however, will tightly
          controlled. At the conclusion of the Ceremony of Honors, ONLY those
          persons wearing the appropriate wristbands will be permitted access
          to the Banquet area. PLEASE be ready to show that you are wearing
          your wristbands to gain entrance to the Banquet! Our security
          control people are instructed to deny entrance to any without the
          appropriate wristband... NO EXCEPTIONS!

     3. 1996 Exhibition Hall is Open to Gymnastics Fans
          On Sunday June 30, the Congress Exhibition Hall will be open to the
          general public through the purchase of an Exhibition Hall Day Pass.
          NOTE: this Day Pass will ONLY permit access to the Exhibition Hall
          and NOT any of the Congress sessions.

     4. Parent's Session - "What My Parents Did Right!"
          For the first time ever, USA Gymnastics will offer a special session
          for parents of young gymnasts (women's, men's, and rhythmic) on
          Friday June 28 from 2:00-4:00 p.m. This session promises to be very
          informative and fun! Presenters include former Olympians, sport
          scientists, and National Team parents. USAG hopes that coaches, gym
          club owners, etc. to attend themselves and encourage parents in
          their clubs to attend this session! -- It will be a very valuable

          The admission at the door (Hynes Convention Center Auditorium) is
          $15/person. NOTE: All registered Congress attendees can attend this
          session at no additional charge by showing their Congress

On a side note, I will be giving a presentation at Congress about
how to get your gym on the web.  I WANT FEEDBACK!!!  What have you found the
hardest about getting yourself onto the Internet?  If you often help friends
get online, what seems to be common problems?  If you are in any way involved
in getting your gym on the net, what kind of information have your users
requested?  What was the hardest part (assembling the information, finding
someone who knew HTML, finding a place to store your pages, etc?)




Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 16:52:24 -0400
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Rhythmic Worlds (Day Two)

Rhythmic World Championships 1996

Budapest, Hungary               21 - 23 June, 1996

(Day Two of Three)


The scores that I have given yesterday for the groups were NOT event
finals scores as I indicated. They were the half-way scores of their
All-Around competition. However the individual scores WERE event
final scores.

Here is the final results of the groups All-Around competition:

All-Around (Top Eight)

 1. Bulgaria                    (BUL)   39.600
 2. Spain                       (ESP)   39.400
 3. Belarus                     (BLR)   39.333
 4. Russia                      (RUS)   39.166
 5. Ukraine                     (UKR)   38.866
 6. Japan                       (JPN)   38.499
 7. Italy                       (ITA)   38.466
 8. Hungary                     (HUN)   37.932

Individual Event Finals:


 1. Ekaterina Serebrianskaya    (UKR)   10.000
=2. Maria Petrova               (BUL)    9.950
=2. Larissa Lukianenko          (BLR)    9.950
=2. Amina Zaripova              (RUS)    9.950
 5. Eva Serrano                 (FRA)    9.800
 6. Almudena cid Tostado        (ESP)    9.750
 7. Magdalena Brzeska           (GER)    9.733
 8. Alina Stoica                (ROM)    9.550
 9. Andrea Szalay               (HUN)    9.366

Here's a brief interview that the German TV station DSF did with Maria
Petrova afterwards (interviewer: Cornelia Hodeige) The interview was
done in English but bearing in mind that both of them do not speak
perfect English:

CH (Cornelia Hodeige): Maria, congratulations for the silver medal
today. Ekaterina Serebrianskaya has 10.000, you have 9.950. If you see
yourself there (TV re-showing Maria's ball routine) did you see the
difference between the gold medal and the silver medal?

MP (Maria Petrova): No, I think that I play good. I was good, but the
judges said that... I know that I have... if I know how to win I have
to know how to lose and that's all. Maybe tomorrow if I play good
they'll give me first medal, because I think that they want to give
to each apparatus to everyone, like, yesterday it was Larissa, today
Serebrianskaya, maybe tomorrow, I...

CH: You always wanted to stop, and you tried it several times. Do you
really stop after Atlanta, it would be a pity for the whole gymnastics
world. Is it true?

MP (smiling): Yes I will stop for sure.

CH: Why?

MP: Because... because I'm tired. Really. I have played in five World
Championships, three European Championships and one Olympic Games, and
I feel tired, really.

CH: What do you do then?

MP (still smiling): I don't know. I will leave! For one year I will do
nothing and after that I will study.

CH: Studying what? do you know what?

MP: Yes I'm now in the Physical Education University in Bulgaria but
I stop because I have to play to the Olympic Games.

CH: Maria, if I see you it really shivers me, there is so much emotion,
so much charm in your performance. Does this count?

MP: Yes I think it have to be count because for me gymnastics the
expression in your routine have to be the first point in your
performance because you give something from you, from your heart and
you give it to the people.

CH: But it doesn't count?

MP: It have to count, I don't know why.

CH: OK, Maria, thank you very much for coming here. We wish you all
the best for tomorrow and again congratulation to the silver medal.
Bye bye,

MP: Thank you.

[End of interview]

Interesting to note that Maria thought the judges would give each
apparatus finals gold medal to different gymnasts.

Final day tomorrow.



Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 18:56:45 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Old Results desired

        If anyone out there has some old IG's from the early 80's, could
you e-mail me privately with the women's results for 1983 USA's, world
trials, and 84 USA's and Olympic trials?  I am specifically looking for
the final placements for Beth Pope, Traci Hinkle, and Julianne Brumbaugh.
Again, if anyone out there knows what became of these gymnasts, I'd really
like to know.  Thanks in advance for anyone who can help me.


Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 19:09:30 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Appendicitis

        With the concern raised recently about whether Gina Gogean could
recover in time for Atlanta, I recalled that in an IG interview a few
years ago, Emelia Eberle, also of Romania, said that it was an
appendectomy that kept her off the 1984 Olympic Team (she had already
competed in 1980 though).  Does anyone know how close before the Olympics
in 1984 that Emelia had her appendectomy?  This might be a good point for
comparison to see if Gina would have enough time to come back or not.  Was
Emelia still in the top 6 on the Romanian team then?  Did she compete in
Budapest in 1983?  Just curious.


Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 19:34:10 -0400
From:    ***@COMET.NET
Subject: tv show with spot on Meng Fei

There's a two hour show, "The Ultimate Athlete: Pushing the Limit" on the
Discovery channel that has a nice bit on Chinese gymnest, Meng Fei, along
with a lot of other athletes.  There was some stuff on diving too.

They are reshowing it (eastern standard time) at the following times:

1)  Sat, 6/22 at 8:00 PM
2)  Sun, 6/23 at 12:00 AM
3)  Fri, 6/28 at 8:00 PM
4)  Sat, 6/29 at 12:00 AM

The Meng Fei part is towards the end.


Date:    Sat, 22 Jun 1996 20:22:36 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Olympic Trials Tickets for sale!  Last chance!

Hello All,

With the trials just around the corner, this will be you last opportunity to
purchase these tickets!  There is a coach at our gym that is offering these
tickets.  His name is Mike Wagner and you can reach him at home at (202)
543-1131.  You'd better hurry!  Don't the trials start next week?  See ya!


p.s.  Please do not send me email about this.  I will be out of town starting
tomorrow and will not receive it until July 1st!  Good luck!


End of GYMN-L Digest - 22 Jun 1996 - Special issue