GYMN-L Digest - 19 May 1996 to 20 May 1996 - Special issue

There are 20 messages totalling 607 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Back with full twist to split
  2. WAG: Europeans.
  3. Mystery Gymnast on Reading Rainbow
  4. Classic Questions, etc (2)
  5. Gymn postings of Euro and U.S. Classic
  6. Womens Europeans (Seniors EF)
  7. TV Alert (2)
  8. Position available
  9. Marinescu (3)
 10. Boginskaya (2)
 11. 97 code Interpetation #3
 12. 97 Code - Version 3 of the Interpetations - MAG
 13. Techical question
 14. Women's Europeans
 15. RO FF full to splits


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 09:23:00 PDT
Subject: Back with full twist to split

The back with full twist to split is listed as a C-part;  without a twist it
is a B-part done from a front or a back somi.

These tricks were very common in the sixties and early seventies before
double backs and bigger tricks became a part of every gymnast's repertoire.
They disappeared because of the new level of excitement generated by those
new "super tricks". The landings in a split position are not as dangerous or
uncomfortable as they at first appear because the forces are taken up by one
leg contacting the ground first and the other quickly sliding to a split but
resulting in a surprising effect. No one lands directly in a split.

Such tricks continue to be rare because the only tricks of value for senior
gymnasts are those that can be rewarded with bonus points. B- and C-parts
normally don't qualify.


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 12:19:58 -0600
Subject: WAG: Europeans.

I am happy to hear that Marinescu won Juniors. I didn't see here on the
list of the senior team, so I was wondering if the Romanians would have
cut her off the team. I have to ask, though, isn't she a a senior? She
competed in two worlds already (Senior). IS it just the fact that she
was competing in the worlds prior to the Olympics and they let her compete
as a enior even though she isn't one?

As for Bogi, I would still like to see the level of difficulty she showed in
Charleston on the FX. I am still waiting to see her do the double tuck
punch front as a dismount.

One more thing: One thing I was really surprised about was the scores.
I thought that it would have closer between 1st and 5th. I guess the new
code (I shoudl really stop typing that!) is working to separate the gymnasts.

And, a big surprise was the finish of the Spainish women. I would have
put them alot higher to the top.


P.S. Was Onodi there with the team but not competing?

Dina, Dina, Dina.


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 13:25:38 -0500
From:    ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: Mystery Gymnast on Reading Rainbow

I was randomly chanel surfing a week ago and found an interview with a
female gymnast I could not place.  She mentioned she was second in the
nation which really made me wonder.  Turned out it was an episode of
Reading Rainbow.  The next feature was on the brother/sister skating pair
Natalia and Waybe Seybold.  Judging from their clothing it was in the
80s.  I later found out they were in the 88 olympics and this was
obviously pre olympics so they gymnast must also have been an olympic
hopeful.  I never caught a name, but at one point she was working out and
the wall behind her said Desert Devils.  She was blond.  Anyway who is
she ... I'm a little fuzzy on that period of gymnastics.


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 15:14:17 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Classic Questions, etc

1.  Congrats to both Jennie Thompson and Amanda Borden. Both deserved the
places they earned. I was actually quite pleased with all of the results. Way
to go Mohini B!!!!

2. Has SCATS changed it's name to Gym-Max, or did all of the SCATS girls
switch gyms??

3. The rosters listed Shannon Watt (Amer Twisters) as a Senior
National..results had her in Jr Nationals...why??

4. This may be old news--Alecia Ingram (Dynamo) has a broken foot.

5. Since Becca Whitehurst (Cypress) and some  of her teammates scratched
events, does this mean that they didn't qualify to Championships??

6. DId anyone catch Alexis Brion's (Gymstrada) beam?? What happened??

I think that's all for now...



Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 15:19:10 -0400
From:    ***@INETNOW.NET
Subject: Gymn postings of Euro and U.S. Classic

I think need to applaud Rachele Harness and Sherwin Ho for their updates for
the Euorpean championships and the U.S. Classic. If it were not for the
updates on gymn, a lot of us would have NO idea what went on in Europe and
the Classic. If I forget anybody, I apologize.

Oh, by the way, I think somebody should post the results on
alt.sports.gymnastics. Not all gymnastics fans are on gymn. I know a lot on
AOL who are not. But they do have access to newsgroups. This is the most
coverage,scores, etc. I have seen any where. There is no coverage of these
events in the local papers or even the national ones and sports magazines.

On more thing, I think we ought to have an online party for Lilia
Podkopayeya. I am so happy she is doing well at the Euro champs. The same
for Dominique Moceanu at the Classic. I can't wait to see what little
tidbits ABC shows us as "coverage" in June (the European championships). At
least we can see Lilia, Bogi, and Milo.


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 12:56:41 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Classic Questions, etc

> 2. Has SCATS changed it's name to Gym-Max, or did all of the SCATS girls
> switch gyms??

The girls switched gyms from SCATS to Gym-Max, which is owned by former
SCATS coaches Hao "Howie" Liang (former Chinese nat'l team coach), Wen
Jia, and New Hope coach Li Xiaoping...who are husband and wife, parents
of two little girls and were great gymnasts to say the least...:)


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 17:38:45 -0400
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Womens Europeans (Seniors EF)

Womens European Championships 1996

Birmingham, England     16-19 May, 1996.

Seniors Event Finals

                                 1st     2nd    Total
 1. Simona Amanar       (ROM)   9.812   9.737   9.774
 2. Gina Gogean         (ROM)   9.775   9.762   9.768
 3. Liliya Podkopayeva  (UKR)   9.800   9.712   9.756
=4. Dina Kochetkova     (RUS)   9.750   9.700   9.725
=4. Svetlana Khorkina   (RUS)   9.750   9.700   9.725
 6. Svetlana Boguinskaya(BLR)   9.687   9.637   9.662
 7. Joana Juarez        (ESP)   9.650   9.387   9.518
 8. Einat Kedar         (ISR)     ?       ?     9.418
 9. Ludmila Prince      (LAT)     ?       ?     9.400

Romanian one-two with Simona's double twisting Yurchenko edging over
Gina's 1 and 1/2 twists. The TV commentator dubbed Amanar as "Miss
Fast Twitch" :). Gina Gogean of course didn't qualify for the
All-Around final so she was looking to bag in the medals today.

The handspring piked front 1/2 turn vault seemed to be a popular
second choice for gymnasts, 4 out of the 9 performed that as their
second vault. The highest scoring second vault was Gogean's
Tschukahara 1/2 turn into Arabian somersault.

Uneven Bars

=1. Svetlana Khorkina   (RUS)   9.825
=1. Simona Amanar       (ROM)   9.825
=1. Liliya Podkopayeva  (UKR)   9.825
 4. Lavinia Milosovici  (ROM)   9.800
 5. Lioubov Sheremeta   (UKR)   9.775
=6. Yelena Piskoun      (BLR)   9.725
=6. Svetlana Boguinskaya(BLR)   9.725
 8. Dina Kochetkova     (RUS)   9.262

Khorkina won this event yet again but this time had to share with
Amanar and Podkopayeva. Khorkina's characteristic routines contained
her 1/2 turn to back straddle release; 1 & 1/2 turn pirouette, and a
full-twisting double back with a stuck landing.

Simona Amanar's routine had lots of pirouettes on the top bar, in
combinations with the two releases (Geinger and Tkatchev) to beef
up the bonuses. Her double layout dismount was also landed well.

Podkopayeva's routine had a two hop fulls in a row into Geinger
combination, and a full-twisting double back with a little hop on
the ladning. Her Geinger was still recaught with her legs slightly
apart and bent which should be deducted...

Piskoun was the one with the big tricks including two hop fulls
followed by Delchev, and a full-twisting double layout dismount, but
she had to take two steps forward on her landing.

Kochetkova fell on her Shaposhnikova move from low bar to high when
she released too early and only her fingertips managed to touch the
high bar. She got back up and successfully repeated that skill though.


 1. Rozalia Galieva     (RUS)   9.725
 2. Gina Gogean         (ROM)   9.712
 3. Yelena Piskoun      (BLR)   9.650
 4. Svetlana Boguinskaya(BLR)   9.575
 5. Simona Amanar       (ROM)   9.562
 6. Lioubov Sheremeta   (UKR)   9.450
 7. Dina Kochetkova     (RUS)   9.000
 8. Anna Mirgorodskaya  (UKR)   8.762

Not a very high quality final as nearly everybody had noticable

Galieva was another one who did not compete in the All-Around finals
and this beam gold was probably her first major gold medal in
international competition. Her routine started with a round-off mount;
flick/layout/flick/layout series; front somi; full-twisting Korbut
and a full-twist double back dismount.

Gogean got another silver medal but she wobbled slightly in landing
her flick to layout to two feet series.

Piskoun had a major wobble on her full-twisting back somi but managed
to stay on the beam and claimed bronze. She got a big hug from
Boguinskaya afterwards.

Kochetkova was having a bad day and she again fell from beam after
her full-twisting flick into layout series. She struggled to stay
on but her body weight was waving from one side to another and she
eventually had to give in.

Floor Exercise

=1. Liliya Podkopayeva  (UKR)   9.862
=1. Lavinia Milosovici  (ROM)   9.862
=3. Dina Kochetkova     (RUS)   9.800
=3. Joana Juarez        (ESP)   9.800
 5. Rozalia Galieva     (RUS)   9.762
 6. Svetlana Boguinskaya(BLR)   9.600
 7. Simona Amanar       (ROM)   9.562
 8. Yelena Piskoun      (BLR)   9.412

The favourite Podkopayeva won the floor sharing the gold with the
ever fresh Milosovici. Liliya did not perform her routine as well as
in the All-Around competition and she had a couple of unsure landings
in her tumbling including a step forward in her double front somi.
The ballet element fouettes were nice to see though.

Milosovici had the big tumbles as always performing to American
music ready for Atlanta (the Romanians tend to use home country
music for big meets). Her tumbles included a double layout mount,
2 & 1/2 twists into punch front middle run, and a full-twisting
double tuck back dismount.

Kochetkova did not make any major mistake thie time as she claimed
the bronze with a more classical style routine. She shared the medal
with Spain's Joana Juarez who finally got rewarded for a very
entertaining routine which included a double layout start (the legs
were slightly apart though), straight back across the diagonal into
handspring front/full-twisting front/tuck front combination. She's
got good music interpretation. Other significant elements included a
triple spin; a double twists at the end of a series of whips and
flicks; and finally a handspring front/full-twisting front/pike front
final tumble.

Amanar who was last to go performed a good fast routine but was
marked down for some reason... I saw no obvious mistakes and she
certainly performed a lot of elements in her routine. She started
with a double layout; the middle tumbling run of 2 & 1/2 twists
punch front, back across for a triple twists; and finishing with
a stuck full-twisting double back. If someone knows why she was
marked down to only 9.562 I'd like to hear the explanation.

A final interesting point was that Roza Galieva, the one who was
replaced by Tatiana Gutsu in the 1992 Olympics All-Around competition,
performed her first pass using the "Gutsu" tumble (double layout with
split legs in the first layout).


PS I dont have the juniors event finals results so I guess that is all
from the Women Europeans in Birmingham. The next big gym meet is
going to be the rhythmic European championships from Oslo in Norway
between 29th May and 2nd June.


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 18:31:07 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: TV Alert

I sent the last message unintentionally before I was finished :)
Anyway, this is the description of "16 Days of Glory"

 "Highlights of the 1984 Summer Olympics, featuring men's all-around
gymnastics       and women's cycling"

Set those VCR's!



Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 18:27:47 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: TV Alert

On Wed. of this week on ESPN2 (channel 84 in the Washington, DC area) there
is a program that will be televised called "16 Days of Glory".  It is on at
8:30 pm eastern time.  The description is as follows:


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 18:51:35 -0500
From:    ***@DELPHI.COM
Subject: Position available

Please excuse the commercialization of the list, but here goes;

Full-Time coach needed.  Oak Park Gymnastics Center (chicago
area)  is looking for an experienced and enthusiastic coach to
teach all levels.  We have 450+ students with strong preschool
and girls program  (team levels 5-9).  Experience coaching boys,
a plus.  Salary and benefits commensurate with experience.  Send
resume to:  Suzie Kinsman  218  Madison, Oak Park, Il.  60302.
or phone (708) 383-0218.  M/F EOE


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 19:08:14 -0400
Subject: Marinescu

I was reding a while back what people were saying about marinescu, and I
agree.  i was reading some past issues of IG today and it quoted heras
saying that she ws unimpressed with moceanu and that she had competed
against better gymnasts then her.  How come her results are never as good
as moceanu's.  How come Moceanu always gets a better reception than
marinescu.  I have decided I don't like the immodest romanian, and I hope
she doesn't make AA finals in Atlanta.
Any opinions?


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 19:30:33 -0400
From:    ***@GNATNET.NET
Subject: Boginskaya

Does anyone know for a fact if Boginskaya has left Karolyi's to train in


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 19:42:38 +0000
From:    ***@DORSAI.ORG
Subject: 97 code Interpetation #3

Version 3 of the Interpetations for the 97 Code (M) has been placed
on our site:


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 19:54:13 +0000
From:    ***@DORSAI.ORG
Subject: 97 Code - Version 3 of the Interpetations - MAG

Version 3 of the Interpetations on the 97 Code is available on the
NGJA's web site:



Date:    Sat, 18 May 1996 00:56:34 +0200
From:    ***@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT
Subject: Techical question

I=B4m sorry to be asking this on the list, but how do I get to=20

Isabel F.


Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 22:15:25 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Boginskaya

Re Boginskaya leaving Karolyi's.

In the Boston Globe a couple of weeks ago it had a couple of sentences about
Svetlana leaving Karolyi's. It said she wen to train in Belarus with her team
until the Olympics. It quoted Bela as saying something to the effect of his
work is done and the job with her is complete.

It didn't sound umamicable, but rather it was just time for her to go back to
Belarus to train.



Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 19:36:39 -0700
Subject: Re: Women's Europeans

Sherwin (thanks for the details!) wrote:

>Gina lost her grip
>in a giant swing just before the dismount and was rather fortunate that
>she crashed to the mat on her knees and avoided any injury. Octavian
>Belu later emphasised that the gymnasts should be allowed to warm-up
>more on the competition apparatus because the gymnasts health-being
>should be the major concern and it should not be dictated by TV
>schedules demands.

Hmm. . .

Flash back to the Dortmund Worlds:

Romania's there, Belu at the helm. In women's optionals, Gogean missed a
foot on a layout and whacked her head on the beam. We saw it in slo-mo. It
was scary.

She was not checked out, and she competed on floor immediately thereafter.

Romania finished prelims a full point above the field. (Remember finals
would be new-life, and they were certainly in.)

With the gold medal at stake in the team finals, she competed all four
events. Romania won, again by more than a point. And probably would have
done so without her.

Now what was he saying about protecting the gymnasts' health?

As for the peeling off (is this what she did?), perhaps the Romanians
should teach their kids how to swing bars, or at least buy them grips if
they're so concerned with their well-being.

Just some random thoughts.



Date:    Sun, 19 May 1996 19:37:14 -0700
Subject: Re: RO FF full to splits

>        4) A gymnast did a sequence on FX:
>                RUNNING FRONT-RO-FF-FF- full twist directly into
>                a split (UGH!!!!)
>        What is the value of that last move? I've never seen it before.

Been there, done that.

25 years ago last month, an Illinois gymnast finished third in men's NCAAs
with the following routine (quoting May '71 Modern Gymnast):

        RO FF back FF full twist into splits
        press out to inverted (reverse) plance, arch to feet, cartwheel
side with a full
        transitions (they did them then)
        RO FF full

The gymnast? Paul Hunt, who has since watered down to a layout to splits.
His reverse planche is pictured, looking good.

Your champion was the late Stormy Eaton (double tuck, full, double twist),
several finalists did the Valdez (when was the last time you saw a guy do
that?!), and among the qualifiers are Ward Black (USA Gym photographer
Dave's brother) and present Oregon State women's coach Jim Turpin.

And that's only the floor final.

Aren't old magazines cool?



Date:    Mon, 20 May 1996 00:41:41 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Marinescu

On Sun, 19 May 1996, ALISA wrote:

> I was reding a while back what people were saying about marinescu, and I
> agree.  i was reading some past issues of IG today and it quoted heras
> saying that she ws unimpressed with moceanu and that she had competed
> against better gymnasts then her.  How come her results are never as good
> as moceanu's.  How come Moceanu always gets a better reception than
> marinescu.  I have decided I don't like the immodest romanian, and I hope
> she doesn't make AA finals in Atlanta.
> Any opinions?
> Alisa

        I have been wanting to comment on Marinescu's outspokeness for a
long time.  I applaud this girl for speaking her mind.  You ask why her
results aren't as good as Moceanu's?  So winning back to back Jr Euro
Titles is not good?  She is a world silver medallist on beam as well as
Moceanu.  She could have done very well in the AA finals in Sabae but
when you are on a team as deep and talented as the Romanians it is
difficult to break through.  Marinescu shows more difficulty on each
event than Moceanu, except perhaps the uneven bars.  She has clean form
on all her skills, something that is apparently foreign to Moceanu.  I
would much rather have a gymnast who says what is on his/her mind than
someone who just says what they have been programmed to say.  I don't
think either that it was too far fetched for her to say what she did.
She never said that she was better than DOm.  SHe said she had competed
against better, which no one can deny!  She grew up in the Romanian
system and is a part of a world champion team.  I could go on, but I
won't.  I hope my point is well taken.


Date:    Mon, 20 May 1996 01:50:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Marinescu

HI Chris,
I get your point and maybe I didn't explain mine well enough.  I meant to
say not that she was worse than moceanu, but that she has not proven to
do better than moceanu(who hasn't done that great).  There are plenty of
quiet unassuming gymnasts who are much better and have proven so in
competition.  Why is she still competing in the Jrs at Europeans?  It is
an Olympic year and she should be competeing at the level of all the
futuer olympians.  I understand the limited number of people per team at
Euros, but I feel she is not living up to her remarks as well as the
praise from others she has been getting.  How about a gymnast like Kerri
Strug, or Letitia Begue, or even Yelena piskun who are quiet abd do there
stuff, get it done, and get little or no recognition.
I am not saying that Marinescu is not a good gymnast or does not have the
potential to be Olympic Champion, I am just saying she should prove it first.
So, your point were well taken, but so were mine


End of GYMN-L Digest - 19 May 1996 to 20 May 1996 - Special issue