GYMN-L Digest - 20 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 18 messages totalling 610 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Any other sport lists?
  2. Asian Men!
  3. a piece of sad news from Olympic
  4. Talavera's age eligibility (2)
  5. Olympics Mens Artistics Team Compulsories
  6. SPOILER!!! Mens results...
  8. OG: South of the border
  9. Canadian update (somewhat of a spoiler)
 10. opening ceremonies and asian men
 11. Olympic comments
 12. Women's Optional Pod. Training
 13. Coverage Times
 14. Chechi
 15. First announcer blooper...
 16. Television Coverage
 17. RESULTS: Men 1A


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 18:30:51 EDT
From:    ***@JUNO.COM
Subject: Any other sport lists?

hey, people.

Do you subscribe to any other good sport lists?

care to tell me? thanks.


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 18:30:51 EDT
From:    ***@JUNO.COM
Subject: Asian Men!

someone here wrote:

"* My first vivid memory of the day is of an Oriental man,"

I want to know how old s/he is? Because in the southern california where
I am living now, People don't use that term "oriental" any more. It has a
sense of discrimination.

Now Asian is the standard word.

So now you learned, and I hope that you will use it.


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 18:30:51 EDT
From:    ***@JUNO.COM
Subject: a piece of sad news from Olympic


A Polish diplomat collapsed on the field during Friday night's
opening ceremony and later died. Eugeniusz E. Pietrasik, a
49-year-old deputy foreign minister, had marched into the Olympic
Stadium with the Polish athletes Friday and collapsed on the infield
area during the lengthy ceremony at Olympic Stadium.  The man was
treated by paramedics but died en route to a hospital.

You can get update news by emails


I think. :*P


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 18:35:09 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Talavera's age eligibility

>For example now a gymnast can be one year under the minimum
age in a pre-olympic world championship since they will be old enough for
the Olympics in the next year (and also since the pre-olympics worlds are
a qualifier for Olympics).  Was this not the case even back in 1979 or did
that rule only come into effect the next cycle?

I believe the first year that was in effect was 1991 (actually 1990 World
Cup, I think)



Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 18:58:13 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Talavera's age eligibility

> >For example now a gymnast can be one year under the minimum
> age in a pre-olympic world championship since they will be old enough for
> the Olympics in the next year (and also since the pre-olympics worlds are
> a qualifier for Olympics).  Was this not the case even back in 1979 or did
> that rule only come into effect the next cycle?
> I believe the first year that was in effect was 1991 (actually 1990 World
> Cup, I think)
> Mara
        Well it was definitely in effect in 1987/88, as there were many
women in Rotterdam who were only 14 or turning 14 by the end of 1987.
THere may have been more, but Svetlana Boginskaya, Larissa Lowing, and
Fontini Varvariotou (sp?) (who was the youngest in the meet, about 6 weeks
shy of 14 as I recall) come to mind.


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 19:04:11 -0400
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Olympics Mens Artistics Team Compulsories

Olympic Games 1996

Atlanta, USA            19 July - 4 August, 1996

For those of you who haven't got a TV :)

Mens Team Standings after Compulsory Exercises:

 1. Russia      287.258
 2. China       286.283
 3. Ukraine     285.359
 4. Belarus     285.222
 5. USA         284.634
 6. Bulgaria    283.534
 7. Korea       283.384
 8. Japan       282.823
 9. France      282.197
10. Germany     282.147
11. Romania     281.873
12. Italy       280.560



Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 19:06:52 -0400
From:    ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: SPOILER!!! Mens results...

Results through (I think) rotation two, from the USA Today Men's gymnastics
results on-line.

1) Belarus
2) USA

Germany, who won the earliest round, was fifth with China and one other
major power yet to compete. US coach Peter Kormann was EXTREMELY proud of
the guys, apparently, they only had one major break and one rough routine.


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 18:06:47 -0600

Well, the first televised portion of the Olympics has come and I
am already sick to death of it. I gave up watching gymn after about
15 minutes because I already sat threw swimming and the endless number
of TV breaks and commercials (which brings me to ask the question, is there
such a thing as an 'unproud' sponsor of the Olympic Games? It makes no sense
to say that you are a proud sponsor, then.)

I am really starting to dread this competition now. I know that we'll not
see alot of gymnastics and I wish that there was some way that NBC would
tape everything and sell it (Are you reading this big brother??!?!?!) I
liked the triple cast since we got to see the gymnasts from the other countries
compete. It wasn't all Gutsu, Miller, Bogi, and Milo. I think that
the Olympics should be about competing and not just marketing. I found
the hard struggle between Hungary, Spain, Bulgaria and Australia for the
5-8 positions just as thrilling and exciting as the 1-4 'war on the
floor' and for the 5-8 teams, it wasn't about medals or endorcements etc.
It was for pride and their own dreams. Heck, we won't even get to see
all 8 finalist in the EF, probably, since we'll they'll have to go to

I don't understand NBC and USGF marketing. Everyone knows that there will be a
huge surge in gymn enrollement after these games, so why not capitalize on it
and sell the video of ATLANTA. Everything. NBC owns everything, is it going
to hurt the huge revenue you are making to offer the public a chance to
show us what you couldn't in your alotted time space? I am surprised that USGF
doesn't want to pressure NBC into doing this to keep the momentum going for

Well, that's how I see it. I didn't watch openning ceremonies since I
don't like them. I'd rather see gymn than the gymnast march into the stadium.


Proud fan of Dina Kotchekova regardless of how she does in this competition.

(P.S. I *KNOW* that it is not economically feasible to do the triple
cast again, so please don't tell me that!)


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 17:16:48 -0700
Subject: OG: South of the border

Greetings from San Diego.

While channel-surfing last night to escape the inanity of the NBC
spoon-feeding (er, commentary - when they led in with Neil Diamond, I knew
we were in trouble), I found the Mexican network Televisa running the
ceremonies - sans chat. Much better that way - one could actually hear the

Ceremonies overall were decent. A knock-off of Barcelona (as are all the
"sets" here), but better that than '84. My junior-high homecoming was

Today, despite the listings telling us it was "programa comprada" (paid
programming) all day, they've been covering stuff live.

Lest you think we have it made down here, Televisa gives a new dimension to
the word schizoid. Max single-sport segment so far (Lithuania vs. Croatia
basketball) was something like 8 minutes. Mostly it seems like 2-3
different two-minute segments followed by six commercials (aha - the
listings were accurate). Moreover, as they return too abruptly from the
ads, I am still in the dark about final men's standings. They must've
flashed 'em for a whole 10 seconds, then left it on 7-12 (Korea, Japan!,
France, Germany, Romania, Italy)

>From the routines they did show, Russia looked better than China (Nemov was
fab, though he was hard to see in black - why do they want to be
invisible?!), so I expect they're in first. China's vaults were great -
past the far line and stick, like Scherbo. They showed a couple of Koreans,
but not super-vaulters You Ok Youl or Yeo Hong-Chul, vaulting well.
Surr-prise. The commentators were going off about Korobchinsky's fabulous
vault in the final round, but they didn't show it. Hope NBC will.

So how do you recover that quickly from a blown Achilles? Hope he'll give
Ivankov some advice.

Oh, and don't bother with the official web site for results - if you can
connect, they identify Germany as Ghana, only list six team members (maybe
NBC lied about Burinca competing for Romania?) and are way behind. Anyone
know where to find anything current? How difficult can this be? For years
they've had results on-line for media (on-site) that's virtually
instantaneous. No pun intended.

Mr. Tesh: It's pronounced "Li SHAO-shuang," not "Shwow." He could compete
with the idiot in Boston, who made the first syllable of Thompson rhyme
with "foam."

But hey, if I were in Atlanta, trying to shoot in all that contrast (the
green's nice, but not a color you want reflected onto skin, and it's too
dark in that cavernous place), or just trying to get around, I'd be even
more frustrated. And miserably hot.

Just the view from the lower left-hand corner of the U.S.

Who went to Seoul and Barcelona, and is glad to be watching this one on TV.


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 20:50:14 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Canadian update (somewhat of a spoiler)

        Well, it looks like ALan Nolet is the only Canadian with a chance
to make AA finals.  RIchard Ikeda was looking super on his first five
events (including a super 9.575 on HB) but on his last event, rings, his
shoulders gave out after the cross cable sequence and he scored only
7.275.  Kris Burley didn't hold the planche on FX properly and scored only
9.25, basically kissing a chance at FX finals goodbye (a shame, since he's
event final worthy on that event).  He looked super on vault, landing in
the 0.1 bonus zone I believe for a 9.525.  I wonder where this ranks him
individually on that event?   Btw he does the same two vaults as Nemov
when he makes it to EF.  Kris had a disaster on PH as well, scoring only
7.175...a real shame for him....Alan Nolet was super consistent, and was
particularly good on PB.
        Also, SRC just showed a bit of China and Russia.  Nemov did an
unbelievable arabian last pass on FX (I hope NBC shows this): he took off
as if just doing a high layout, then twisted and kicked out too (okay, the
kickout wasn't as good as some others, but it was *way* up there).
        Also, they showed Li Xiashuang on R, where he got only 8.35 (I was
taping CBC and SRC at the same time, so didn't actually see the whole
routine and haven't watched it yet, sorry....).  Does anyone know if Li
Jing is actually competing?  He was one of the 8 Chinese men listed as
being on teh team, but I wonder if he was dropped to alternate or if he is
actually there.
        All for now!  I leave for Atlanta on Monday morning, with tickets
to men's and women's AA finals!  Yipee!


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 17:52:20 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: opening ceremonies and asian men

I thought that the personal account of Ron Dupont's veiw of the
ceremony was rather enlightening. It was a great way for those of us
who saw it on the television to get an exciting glimpse into the actual
crowds.  I hope that "Kyle C" finished reading the entire letter before
he decided to educate us all. Ron wrote "... there was just one
country, that of the human race. There were no borders, no hatred, no
fear, and no bigotry."  That is the lesson we could all stand to learn!

Hope we hear more first hand accounts from those few souls lucky enough
to be on site!

Have fun and may the Olympic spirit be with you all!



Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 1996 10:57:44 +1000
From:    ***@OZEMAIL.COM.AU
Subject: Olympic comments

After all the whingeing I do regarding the lack of gymnastics coverage in
Australia, it was actually the first sport Channel 7 televised for these

I only stayed up to see a bit of the mens compulsories, and I can't really
comment on it because I don't know much about MAG, but I thought the Aussie
boys did well, esp Brennon Dowrick on floor and high bar.  I didn't see his
HB, but he got a 9.35.

Sandy Roberts (normally a football (AFL) commentator) and Liz Chetkovich are
the commentators for the Australian telecast, the same two that did
Barcelona.  Sandy might be a football head but he's very enthusiastic about
the gym, and at least makes an attempt to get the pronounciations right.
The Australian preview featured an interview with Scherbo and Chechi, the
former remarking that this will be his last competition.

As for the girls, he seems keen on "Romanian upstart" Alexandra Marinescu,
but did mention Gogean and Milo.  He's also keen on Mo for AA.

Can't wait for the women's comp!




Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 21:44:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Women's Optional Pod. Training

Boy am I pissed.  I wrote this all before and then it disconnected.  But
I'll do it again since I love all of you so much.

FRANCE--I love them.  They started on bars, and Teza's German giants to
Tkatchev is as good as ever.  Severino missed her Def once, but
performed it 3 other times perfectly (and what form!) along with
sticking her full-out everytime.  I expect both Elvire and Isabelle to
make finals and challenge for medals.  On beam, Teza is
great--performing her Teza (which I've never seen her miss), Rulfova,
backhandspring to 2 layouts, and a great 2 1/2 twist dismount.  Plus,
all the French girls have interesting choreography on beam.  Teza has
some amazing back flexibility, much more than Kristie Phillips.  Some of
the other French girls had small troubles on beam, but generally they
were solid.  Canqueteau looks great, too, dismounting with a REAL triple
twist.  Then onto floor--what can you say?  They might not have the most
difficult tumbling, but it's hard to notice with their expression and
choreography.  I am in awe of how an entire team can have individual
styles that are all just fabulous.  Their second girl up performed to
Mitova's music (a different mix, though), and as much as I thought no
one could ever interpret her music again, I was wrong.  This girl had a
completely different interpretation but it was just as riveting.  Teza
and Furnon used the same music as at the USA-France meet, and Furnon is
doing her double layout very well.  Severino has an entrancing Spanish
routine with a good triple twist.  On vault, the highlight is Furnon's
double twisting Yurchenko.  All in all, this team is very happy to be
here and I think they will have at least one medalist.

RUSSIA--Starting on beam, the Russians looked a little shaky.  Lyapina
is very quick and does a great Onodi (Arabian handspring), then Khorkina
had balance problems which were slight but obvious.  Dina looked better
than in compulsory training, and Galieva anchored the event with the
most solid routine I've ever seen her d, ending with a stuck piked
full-in.  On floor Roza was up first (?) and did a good double layout,
although her dance was really cutesy and not indicative of her talent.
Kuzhnetsova has odd music and I've never seen a gymnast have a longer
peiod of dance before her first pass.  Her tumbling was a little weak,
mounting with a full-in.  Dolgopolova began with a double layout but
completely crashed her final pass.  Grosheva mounted with her double
twisting front and ended with a 2 1/2 twist.  The best news (for me) was
that Dina has gone back to her 1994 floor ex music.  I'm sure that many
people will celebrate that, and she mounted with a good double layout
and ended with a double back.  Khorkina mounted with a double pike
(shades of Betty Okino?), did a barani to a rudi, and ended with a
triple twist, which she crashed.  She was really upset and Pilkin (her
personal coach) spent a lot of time talking to her.  She then went back
up on the podium and put her hands down on a piked full-in.  I'm not
sure what's going on with Khorkina, but her other event looked pretty
solid.  On vault, the Russians didn't really stick their landings with
the exception of Galieva.  Bars was great, though, as Dolgopolova hit a
wonderful Def (much improved from a few years ago), Roza was great,
hitting all her handstands, and Khorkina changed her transition AGAIN--I
love it!  Now, instead of doing her Shaposhnikova to a regrasp immediate
half turn to kip up, she does a Shaposhnikova with a half twist to kip
up.  It's great, you'll have to see it.  I don't think the Russians will
challenge for the gold, but who knows?

CHINA--The team started on floor, and as much as their tumbling has
improved (many throwing double layouts), their choreography is some of
the weaker in teh competition.  I actually believe that the Romanians
have better choreography at this point in time.  Kui Yuanyuan is still
using her nervous-breakdown cutesy routine (sorry, I think she could do
much better) with all the tumbling.  Ji Liya was 5th up, using the same
music as in 1995 Worlds but has taken the full twist out of her double
layout.  And Mo was anchor, and is using new music (Yay!) by Yanni
(wonder if John Tesh will be jealous...).  This music is such an
improvement over her typewriter routine, but the choreography needs
major work.  She mounted with a nice double-tiwsting front.  On vault, I
really think the Chinese have improved from even a year ago: 4 Yurchenko
1 1/2s, and 3 Yurchenko double twists.  All were very clean and
well-landed if not as high and far as the other teams'.  On bars, they
were their usual solid selves--many inverted giants and high, clean
releases.  Surprisingly, many had small problems with beam, and Kui fell
on her layout mount twice and Mo is still having problems with her
double back landing.  I forgot to mention that the Chinese don't have
the bars connections that the Russians do, I'm still seeing a lot of
feet on the bars.  I'm not sure if this team is in it for the gold--the
Chinese and Americans seem well-matched for a battle.

INDIVIDUALS--Chusovitina is just astonishing.  Her vault (Pike 1/2) is
solid and usually stuck, has upgraded to a double pike off of beam
(great), and you will not believe her opening pass on floor: Double
layout full-out punch front to double layout!!!  This girl is amazing.
Or should I say woman?  The girl from Kazhakstan did a punch front
immediate (and I mean IMMEDIATE) back swingdown (Korbut)--great.  She
also pulled a Gogean on beam, hitting her head after a bakchandspring
layout-layout combo on which her dirst layout did not come down on the
beam.  Remarkably, she got back up after a few minutes and did the pass
perfectly--twice.  Great Britain's Anika Reeder threw a great double
layout on floor.

ROMANIA--I think these guys are a lock, even with only 6 girls.  Their
consistency and depth are just too much to overcome.  And Gina is back!
On bars, the girls threw 3 double layouts, including a stuck one from
Gogean.  Gina's releases looked a little lower than before, but the rest
was great.  Milosovici sometimes ovverrotates her double front.  Their
order on bars was Loaies, Gogean, Tugurlan, Marinescu, Amanar (who's
doing the stand to high bar), and Milo (who nailed her double front).
The Romanians impressed me with the actual number of full routines they
did--it is obvious why they are so very consistent.  On beam, Loasies
impressed with a front on, backhanspring layout backhandspring layout,
punch front, Chen, and a great triple twist.  Gogean's routine was
watered down from before her surgery; front on, punch front, back dive
1/4, and double tuck off.  Amanar looked solid, but I have one
question--has Simona EVER not taken a step on her dismount?  Milo looked
strong.  Romania uses the back dive 1/4 way too much.  Marinescu hit her
backhandspring to full 3 out of 5 times, and if she hits it the routine
will score very high.  On floor, as they were warming up, I wrote down
"Gina doesn't look as strong" and then looked to the floor and saw her
float a double layout!  So much for that idea.  Amanar led off (?),
solid as usual, and Loaies was 2nd with a tiple twist and a good overall
performance.  Tugurlan used that good ol' Romanian folk music and
tumbled 3 whips immediate double full.  Marinescu is still a little weak
in her tumbling and kind of alientaed the crowd with her music.  Gogean
has new music but it's still along the same lines, just a little softer
and less of a beat.  Her tumbling is great--double layout, front full to
2 punch fronts, and a full-in.  Milo's floor is the same with strong
tumbling.  Vaulting is what may very well seperate Romania from the
rest--Gina and Marinescu threw great Yurchenko 1 1/2s.  Many of their
Phelpses were more laid out than before.  I think this team is going to
be hard to beat.

AUSTRALIA--These girls have FORM!  One floor ex was very
well-choreographed to "The Pink Panther," and Joanna Hughes really
impressed me (and the crowd) with a routine to music by Chicago with a
Piked full-in, triple twist (!), and 2 whips immediate double twist.
For her effort, she got some of the loudest cheers from the audience.
Their bars also were highlighted by form, and their beam was a display
of flexibility and form.  Is Zeena McLaughlin competing?

JAPAN--They started on beam, and had too many falls to count.  But when
the team moved to floor, I was really surprised (and pleasantly so) by
how much improved their choreography is!  Their music was obviously
designed to get the crowd into it, and it did, with music like Rockin'
Robin and (GET THIS) We Will Rock You.  Then, the last up (I'm guessing
it was Risa Sugwara) had a beautiful classical routine with great
expression.  Where did they all learn to dance?  I mean, they aren't
France or anything, but compared to Kosuge's old routines ala Michael
Jackson, what an improvement!

GREECE--I'm still being impressed by this team of youngsters!  They
swing bars really well and have strong dismounts, full twisting double
backs and double layouts.  Their vaulting is kind of weak, but their
choreography on floor is great.  Notable is Vasso, whose double layout
on floor is great.  Also , one of the girls did a great routine to "In
the Mood" (Zmeskal) with choreography that was NOT cutesy but still she
smiled.  And another girl interpreted Magualena better (IMO) than Dawes
ever did.  This team is on the rise!

This is going to be long so I'll send this first half now so my computer
doesn't blow out on me again.


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 20:56:09 -0600
From:    ***@IGLOBAL.NET
Subject: Coverage Times

I'm watching the Olympic gymnastics coverage via NBC. I have a few
questions: Can anyone suggest a US channel with better coverage than NBC?
Also, when do the women's compulsories begin?


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 22:02:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Chechi

Just a question--How do you pronounce Yuri Chechi's last name?  I've
heard "Cake-ey" and "Keck-ey" and was just wondering which, if either,
were correct.


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 22:17:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: First announcer blooper...

Gymnastics has been on for 15 minutes and already something funny:

"They live together, train together, unlike the United States, which we
will see later today...  The U.S.  guys have been training together for
several months now, but a lot of these teams, like the Romanians and
also the Russians and the Belarussians and the Chinese, they all have
that really strong system where they work together, live together,
sleep--in the same room, some of them..."

-John Tesh, almost making a HUGE boo-boo...


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 22:46:34 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Television Coverage

I would like to thank all of you who have coverage, other than NBC, for
keeping us up to date as to what is happening.  Our every knowledgable cable
company, TCI, decided we didn't want CBC Vancouver anymore so they took it
off.  Even though Vancouver is the closest major city to Seattle, we have no
idea what is going on anymore.  CBC ALWAYS has much better sports coverage of
any event than any US network.  I wish I could get CBC off the airwaves, but
it is just to snowy to do any good.

Thanks you CBC/SRC watchers.

Washington State Judging Director


Date:    Sat, 20 Jul 1996 23:27:20 -0400
From:    ***@CLOUD9.NET
Subject: RESULTS: Men 1A

Some individual scores, after the compulsory sessions:

1. Alexei Nemov (RUS)        57.862
2. Vitali Scherbo (BKR)      57.823
3. John Roethlisberger (USA) 57.524
4. Jordan Jovtchev (BUL)     57.374
5. Andreas Wecker (GER)      57.300
6. Alexei Voropaev (RUS)     57.274
7. Jian Shen (CHN)           57.224
7. Alexander Svetlichny(UKR) 57.224
30.Valeri Belenki (GER)      56.386



End of GYMN-L Digest - 20 Jul 1996 - Special issue