GYMN-L Digest - 19 Jul 1996 to 20 Jul 1996 - Special
There are 23 messages totalling 668 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Ju Ping controversy (again)
2. My Chinese Olympic page
3. GYMN-L Digest - 16 Jul 1996 to 17 Jul 1996 - Special i
4. RUS Women's Team
5. Tape Swapping
6. Romanian women (2)
7. CHN & ROM Women's Teams
8. Chinese don't use steroids!
9. GYMN-L Digest - 18 Jul 1996 to 19 Jul 1996
10. Women's team line-ups and other news from NY Times
11. Podium Training - IMO (2)
12. Predictions for Olympics
13. Russian Gymnastics
14. Chainey Umphrey
15. 60 Minutes (again)
17. TV coverage
18. CBC times
20. error-ridden newspaper coverage: Jair Lynch
21. Podium Training part 1
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:44:20 +1000
Subject: Ju Ping controversy (again)
A Melbourne paper "The Herald Sun" had a 1 and a half page spread today on
women's gymnastics today (19th July). Unfortunately, it wasn't the best
publicity. According to the article, Ju Ping had a go at two of our
gymnasts during an Atlanta training session. Nicole Kantek and Lisa Skinner
were apparently "reduced to tears" after Ju Ping's outburst, which came
after they fell off beam during training.
There are several pictures in the article. I can't discern any actual
tears, so can anyone in Atlanta confirm this report? There is one picture
of Nicole Kantek looking upset and grumpy, but as someone at work pointed
out - "my 15 year old looks like that!". Apparently the Romanian team was
training in the same area, and "looked stunned", according to the article.
The crux of the article is that the whole episode highlights the training
methods employed for young gymnasts.
On a lighter note, and just a reminder for the Aussies on the list, make a
point of watching Channel 7's Olympic preview on Saturday night at 7.30.
Last Olympics their preview of the gym was great, and looked back at the
history, even playing Olga Korbut's entire Munich floor ex routine!
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 07:22:01 EDT
Subject: My Chinese Olympic page
It doesn't look like it has many links, but indeed every link has some
very good powerful links.
so check it out, people.
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 07:40:37 -0400
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 16 Jul 1996 to 17 Jul 1996 - Special i
>>Is there a deduction in mens FX for tumbling onto a crash mat/pad?>>
In the junior program there is not. The way I understand it, however, is that
the mat must reamin in position throughout the routine. In FIG competition,
crash pads are not allowed. At least there is no specific provision for them
in the Code. I would imagine the deduction would be the same as for a spotter
being present. 0.2.
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 04:59:59 -0700
Subject: RUS Women's Team
Today's NY Times lists the team members for the women's teams of USA, ROM,
CHN and RUS. For RUS (the only team roster that hasn't been posted here
yet), it's Khorkina, Kochetkova, Galieva, Grosheva, Lyapina, Dolgopolova
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 08:00:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Tape Swapping
I would be happy to make copies of my tapes.
1. I am taping NBC broadcast, all commericals, etc
2. I would like CBC broadcast, even with other sports and commericals.
3. Yes I can make copies.
4. My address is:
And To Anjel at Uof M,
I would be happy to trade with you or perhaps I could switch to taping CBC
since you are taping NBC and we are in the same town.
Please let me know either way by Friday night.
You can call me 971-5359 thru 830am Saturday morning.
Or email me at home ***@prodigy.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 09:15:06 -0400
Subject: Romanian women
Could someone PLEASE post the six women Romania has on
the floor competing?? I thought Cacovean had definitely
been named to the squad, and now she isn't there, who
else is and isn't?
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 06:40:54 -0700
Subject: CHN & ROM Women's Teams
As requested, here are the other team line-ups from today's NY Times:
CHN: Bi Wenjing, Ji Liya, Kui Yuanyuan, Liu Xuan, Mao Yanling,
Mo Huilan, Qiao Ya.
ROM: Simona Amanar, Gina Gogean, Ionela Loaies, Lavinia
Milosovici, Alexandra Marinescu, Mirela Tugurlan.
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:10:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Chinese don't use steroids!
I wrote the original post about Chinese gymnasts not being involved in the
controversy of Chinese drug abuse. I just wanted to clear a few things up.
Although I tried to make sure my post wasn't accusatory, it seems to have
been taken differently.
I never accused the Chinese gymnasts of using steriods. I was not putting
them down. It is a fact that the swimmers have tested postive for using
drugs. (Six swimmers tested postive for drug use in 1994. Five of these cases
were for anabolic performance enhancing drugs.) I didn't bring other
nationalities into my inquiry because I was refering soley to the Chinese
gymnastics team and their place or lack there of in the controvery
surrounding drug use in China. Bringing in other nations to the discussion
would have been irrelevant. I wasn't trying to single the Chinese out, but
rather narrow the discussion to the relevant points. (True, some American and
European athletes also use drugs, but that has nothing to do with Chinese
As I said in my original post, I love the Chinese gymnasts. I am not jealous
of their achievements, but rather I admire them for their accomplishments.
I didn't accuse the Chinese gymnasts of drug use. I made a point to do just
I hope this post doesn't sound too defensive (and I'm sorry that it is so
long). I tried to carefully write the first post so that it wouldn't be
misunderstood, but I seemed to have failed at that.
(As a side note the New York Times had an article yesterday on the Chinese
men gymnasts. It isn't anything new. It just says how prepaed they are, that
they're the favorites, and that this team is better than the World Champion
team from last year.)
Thanks for listening,
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 23:12:12 +0700
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 18 Jul 1996 to 19 Jul 1996
>> Does anyone know if we can send fan mail to the gymnasts in Atlanta?
>Go to NBC's Olympic page
Or try this : www.fanmail.olympic.ibm.com/cgi-bin/fanmail/fan/legal
Happy 'hunting' !
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:26:31 EDT
Subject: Women's team line-ups and other news from NY Times
Today's NY Times has an article handicapping the top 4 women's teams.
The accompanying photo is of Dominique Dawes about to do a Valdez on beam.
Podium training for women's optionals sold 30,651 tickets (the capacity
Octavian Belu complained that the US women were training in a private
facility bewteen podium sessions, instead of training at the Georgia
International Convention Center with everyone else; he described it
as "training in secret," and noted that the Spanish team had stayed
with everyone else in Barcelona. Bela Karolyi replied that what
the US was doing was standard for host teams. The US team is also
staying in a private residence instead of in the Olympic Village.
The Chinese women's coach, Lu Shanzhen, complained that in the Village,
they were 13 people to a room, which he thought could "probably
affect our team's performance."
US: Moceanu is a long shot for an AA medal; using her in all events
"debatable considering her relative weakness" on UB and compulsory V.
Dawes may be best on optionals, but may suffer from nerves and/or
have problems with compulsories.
Romania (Amanar, Gogean, Ionela Loaies, Marinescu, Milosovici,
The may not be the most artistic, they might be overscored, but they are
fierce competitors who can stick their dismounts when the pressure's on.
Only weakness: UB. Marinescu "is a threat on everything except vault."
China (Bi Wenjing, Ji Liya, Kui Yuanyuan, Liu Xuan, Mao Yanling,
Mo Huilan, Qiao Ya):
Only weakness: vault. Can be spectular or suffer major breaks.
Mo and Podkopayeva "most consistently spectacular" gymnasts
in the competition. Kui Yuanyuan a "wild card."
Russia (Khorkina, Dolgopolova, Galieva, Grosheva, Kochetkova,
Evgenia Kuznetsova, Oksana Lyapina):
Due to lack of depth, may struggle to capture the bronze.
Khorkina is "eye catching, lanky and avant garde in her choreography,
and, like Amy Chow, a remarkable twister," but could be beaten
by Galieva and Kochetkova in the AA.
BTW, yesterday's NY Times had an article about how maturity was
an asset to the US women's team.
The Boston Globe offers this handicapping of the competition,
with their predictions for gold, silver, and bronze, some of
which seem strange to me:
Team: China; Russia; Japan
AA: Li X., Scherbo, Voropaev
FX: Scherbo, Li X., Misutin
PH: Li Donghua; Huana Huadong; Hatakeda
SR: Chechi; Jovtchev; Burinca
V: Nemov; Misutin; Scherbo
PB: Scherbo; Huang Liping; Tanaka
HB: Wecker; Hatakeda; Krasimir Dunev
Team: Romania; US; China
AA: Podkopayeva; Khorkina; Miller
V: Podkopayeva; Amanar; Gogean
UB: Khorkina; Mo; Podkopayeva
BB: Mo; Podkopayeva; Moceanu
FX: Gogean; Ji Liya; Mo
Also included was an interview with Steve Nunno, who said he learned
everything he needed to know from Karolyi in the first two days
he worked for him. The secret was hard, "endless" work.
"No one works harder than Bela, except maybe me, now." On meeting
Shannon Miller in Russia, at a cultural exchange program:
"I saw that Shannon was terrible, and that she needed help.
But I also saw that she had this big heart, with a lot of
desire. I figured, 'This is a girl I can help.'"
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 12:42:06 -0400
Subject: Podium Training - IMO
Well, here it is for what it's worth. I can think of a handful of
nit-picky logistics things to complain about, but won't, except that
they won't let you sneak down to the bottom of your section to photo,
which is a shame because I was facing the end of the beam AND the side
of the vault. I couldn't use a telephoto from my seat (aisle seat), so
what photos I took are probably worthless. If ANYONE has good photos,
especially of Amanda, I'm interested.
So, competition first (these are impressions, I'll leave the technical
stuff to you who live it):
Mo Huilan a couple bobbles but otherwise very solid as usual
Khorkina completely blew it on the floor and landed on her arm and
face (had a good cry afterwards)
Onodi not as solid as she used to be - her "center of gravity" has
changed a bit
Marinescu solid but quite a few mistakes. If she's the Miller type who
errs in practice but not in competition so be it, if not,
she might have problems
Boginskaia forgive the spelling, I never remember. Amazing. She had a
little trouble on her balance on the beam, although the
usual Bogie arm movements were there, her vaulting
was amazingly solid and her floor routine was entrancing.
I don't think she's all-around material, but watch for her
in the individuals.
The American team was SOLID SOLID SOLID. I don't know how they're going
to choose for the bars or the beam. I assume they'll drop Amanda and
Amy so that they have 4 all-around possibles, but everyone was solid
on the bars! Especially Dawes - she was amazing!
There was no sign of injury with Moceanu or Miller, although I did see
Miller taping her wrist in the practice area before the podium stuff,
but I never saw her rub it. Moceanu took the house down on her floor
routine (as did Amanda), and she added more shakey-bum flourishes to it
which I have to admit made me smile. I still don't like Stug's fx
For what it was worth, and I'd *really* like to see any disagreements,
I learn from them (I know more than John Tesh at least).
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 11:50:47 +0100
Subject: Predictions for Olympics
Vasso T of Greece is going to have her big breakthrough.. she will be the
first Greek Girl in the Olympic beam finals and floor finals.. and will
finish top 12.. despite the anti-foreigner scoring...
She will deserve a beam medal but of course will finish 6th.
Ludovine Furnon and Joana Juarez will also deserve more than they get.
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:00:12 -0400
Subject: Russian Gymnastics
On ESPN last night there was a special about Russian Olympic athletes and
they breifly showed some russian gymnasts training and a few individual shots
Also, in my local paper today it said that Belu is mad because the US
gymnasts are beibg able to train at a highschool gym whenever they want, and
the Romanians only get time during podium training. anyone else see this?
GO USA!! Dominique Moceanu
Olympic AA Champion
Atlanta '96 FOR SURE!!!!!!
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 14:17:28 PST
Subject: Chainey Umphrey
By taking Chainey Umphrey out of the compulsory lineup on high bar in the
Olympics, the USA Coaches have probably taken away its best medal hope, since
Chainey will not be eligible for event finals. At the recent World
Championships, Chainey, I believe, was the only U.S. gymnast who was really in
contention for a medal. He came in fifth on high bar there (and fourth in 1994),
but with his routine, which has four consecutive release moves, he could
certainly duplicate Trent Dimas' Olympic accomplishment in 1992 with a flawless
performance. Yes, John Roethlisberger is excellent, but I don't think he's
flashy enough to get the high scores needed to win at event finals.
I know that the main objective is to win a team medal, but would putting Chainey
in the compulsory line-up on high bar really hurt the team's chances? I think it
could only help it. If the coaches base their lineup on what happened at Olympic
trials, it should be noted that John Macready scored an 8.875, compared to
Chainey's 9.375. That five-tenths makes a big difference.
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 17:16:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Podium Training - IMO
Thanks for posting your impressions of podium training. I've been searching
all over the internet for some sort of report, but there isn't anything out
there, which is a little surprising since it's a ticketed event.
Anyhow, thanks again.
If you have time, can you tell me if anyone is doing new skills? I'm also
wondering if Miller and Moceanu have changed any of their routines since
Nationals? Moceanu was supposed to increase her tumbling diffulcty, and I've
heard rumors of her increasing her difficutly on bars and beam, but that has
been hampered by her injury. Also, I'm hoping Miller keeps her upgraded
routines even though her wrist is hurting her.
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:00:29 -24000
Subject: 60 Minutes (again)
The 60 Minutes segment that aired awhile ago on gymnastics is to be repeated
this Sunday. Gee, isn' that a coincidence?
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:05:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Romanian women
The romanian womens team as named by the NY times today was
I don't think I spelled the last two right but you probobly know who I am
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:33:27 -0400
Subject: Re: olympics
OH MY. I was just informed by my two rhythmic daughters that our family
vacation puts us in rural Manitoba (Riding Mountain Ntl Park, North of
Brandon and about 3 hours west of Winnipeg) during the Olympic broadcasts of
Rhythmics. If anyone knows what Canadian channels might be the most likely
"hits" for Rhythmics beginning Aug 1st,....HELP! :-) thanks in
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 18:45:27 -0400
Subject: TV coverage
In yesterday's London (Ontario) paper there was an Olympic preview
secion (Canadian gymnasts aren't very good, so there weren't any
profiles or gymn coverage). Included in this section was a full schedule
of events and CBC schedule.
CBC is planning on showing Olympics from as early as 7 AM (some days
start at 7, others at 9) until as late as 2 AM - some days finish at 1AM,
others at 2 (all times subject to change - in my experience this usually
means pushing back). What's even more amazing is that their highlights
start at 11 or 12 each night. That works out to as many as 17 hours of new
coverage each day. I don't think we'll be missing much gymnastics here.
I am also happy to see that on non-compulsory days, most of the
gymnastics is being shown in the evening - leaving room for a life
away from the TV during the day.
Does anybody know what NBC's coverage plans are? It would be tough
for them to beat that.
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 16:51:04 -0700
Subject: CBC times
Could whoever posted the CBC gymnastics times re-post them or e-mail them to me.
I accidentally deleted it, and I would like to record the CBC broadcast off
my satellite. Thank you!
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:29:13 -0400
I'm sorry! I recently sent a post to GYMN that I meant to go to a particular
member. I thought I'd taken out GYMN's address and replaced it with hers. I
apologize for wasting bandwidth and people's time with a distinctly off-topic
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 22:14:23 -0400
Subject: error-ridden newspaper coverage: Jair Lynch
I think this is worse than getting the caption wrong -- the Washington Post
said today that Jair Lynch was "sixth on balance beam in Barcelona"! I don't
suppose we can expect to see a repeat of that . . . .
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 1996 00:57:00 EDT
Subject: Podium Training part 1
Okay, so a lot of people want to know about podium training...Here goes!
I missed men's compulsories, so this will be about women's
GREECE--I think this team is really underrated. Their floor
compulsories were great, choreography-wise. Many teams performed the
split leaps after the full in the first pass; Greece's were high and
extended. I think that of all the countries, the Greek girls best
accented the music with their movements. The final pose
expecially--this team used their ARMS and their heads on beat to the
music and really ended the routine with the music. It was great.
JAPAN--This team will really benefit from the no-compulsories future of
gymnastics. Form and precision are not their fortes, at least not in
Atlanta. Enough said--but I was impressed by their optionals (see later
AUSTRALIA--Their beam was, well, mediocre. I'm not sure; I think much
of the team is relatively inexperienced and it showed in numerous
bobbles. I noticed Joanna (she's the only gymnast on that team that I
really know something about...sorry to all of the Aussies, I wish I knew
more!) was having really big problems on bars--she overarched almost
every handstand at least once and thus fell. She looked really tired;
hopefully she will recover!
ROMANIA--Solid. Very solid. As much as I think other countries have
prettier compulsories, none were as consistent as this team. Marinescu
had some problems on bars, but other than that, the Romanians were
great--and they definitely had the HIGHEST Comaneci dismounts of the
meet. (The team got really bored quickly of practicing compulsories and
a few double layouts were thrown in at the end of the practice
(I'm going in the order in which they practiced...no other reason...)
UKRAINE--Talk about tiny gymnasts! I noticed that Knizhnik was ALWAYS
seperate from the rest of the team--I wonder if the last-minute change
has affected the team. Mirgordskaya had a wonderful floor compulsory.
Podkopayeva seemed to have a little trouble in this session of podium
training but appeared better 2 days later.
HUNGARY--Of course the big news is that Onodi is back--and with a
different body, too. She stayed in her warmups for bars, though, so I'm
assuming she's not in the compulsory lineup in that event. (Talk about
a notable board-puller!) If anyone remembers Ildiko Balog from '92, I
see so much improvement in her gymnastics. She's cleaner on most events
and shows a lot of maturity. I didn't catch too much else.
BELARUS--Boginskaya had the best straddle back to handstand on UBars.
No question about it. The rest of the team looked a little shaky save
Piskun--lots of little mistakes.
USA--Don't worry, Kerri's getting plenty of attention from Marta--no
bridesmaid here. I must say, even without taking the home crowd into
account, the US looked great. They were very professional in going
about podium training--a short warmup and then each girl presented her
routine. I was really impressed with this aspect. Beam looked
great--no falls and everyone was generally solid. Shannon's scale looks
great, too. Floor ex was just as good, the order was Chow, Dawes,
Borden, Phelps, Moceanu (whose tumbling looked low and flat compared
toher previous routines), Miller, and Strug. On bars, Phelps and Borden
looked to have the best form along with Miller and Dawes. The other 3
were somewhat piked, I don't know if the judges will really deduct but
it didn't look as nice. Vault looked okay, not as dynamic as some teams
but generally no major breaks.
SPAIN--I feel that the Spanish team was ignored due to the US's presence
in the same rotation. But they are to be noticed! Juarez's
compulsories are great, and most of the Spanish girls have form and toe
point ala Sonia Fraguas. They had small wobbles here and there but were
generally impressive to me. I think that Juarez will have great
compulsory scores IF scoring is fair (and if the judges can actually
hear her floor music over the crowd--her expression is great).
RUSSIA--I'm saddened to say that this is the thinnest team I've ever
seen--painfully thin. Let's just say that Khorkina looked the least
anorexic...I'm not being funny, I'm actually quite worried about some of
the gymnasts. Oh well. Too bad the entire crowd left after the 3rd
rotation--they sure missed out! Dina looks a little wobbly in
general...not sure why. Unlike her optionals, Khorkina looked very
solid and confident in her compulsories. Galieva had the best
rebound/split after the full twist in the floor--it is amazing height
and extension. The younger ones (the 2 "new" faces and Grosheva) had
minor wobbles on beam and small steps on vault, but the entire team
looked fabulous on the other events.
CHINA--Ahh, this is why I'm sad to see compulsories go...The Chinese on
beam. I'm in awe of how gymnastics will be able to discern the quality
of gymnasts without moves such as the scale on beam. EVERY SINGLE
CHINESE hit a 180 scale. (A photographer's dream--I used way too much
film on the Chinese beam routines...) The Chinese had a few minor
wobbles on beam--quite uncharacteristic but it may go away. Other than
that, bars was really beautiful...hit handstands. Plus, the Chinese
were all sticking their compulsory vaults--maybe they've learned a thing
or two from the Romanians...
FRANCE--Ahhh... This team is a force. Unfortunately, Begue is not here
even though she has been recovering from her knee injury. The French
team seemed very happy to just be at the Olympics. They all smiled, and
while they were very joyous they definitely got down to business on the
apparatus. If the Russians looked painfully thin, the French looked
wonderfully fit. I was glad to see that. Of course, I can't not
comment on teh French floor--no surprise, their expression was
wonderful. Not as stacatto as the Greeks--it depends on preference as
to which you prefer. And the French music was great--this sounds weird,
but their arrangement and version of the compulsory piece was so much
clearer and expressive than the other teams'. Just listen and see if
you can hear the difference--I'm not sure if TV will catch it but trust
me, it's there...
And no, my friends, I'm not forgetting the individuals. Eileen Diaz
looks relaxed and prepared. Compulsories are not her strength--her form
is far from good--but her personality and her optionals make up for it.
And I finally got to see Yvonne Tousek. Her compulsories show long,
long lines that suit the routines perfectly. Her floor is definitely a
highlight--and I'm not talking about her optional routine (yet). Her
form is just what compulsories are about.
I think that's about it for compulsories. I'll write about MEn's and
Women's optionals later. If anyone has any other questions about podium
training, feel free to write to me and I'll provide any info I can.
I am absolutely exhausted but exhilirated as well...
End of GYMN-L Digest - 19 Jul 1996 to 20 Jul 1996 - Special issue