GYMN-L Digest - 19 Dec 1995 to 20 Dec 1995

There are 17 messages totalling 475 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Eastern Ma Gyms/Instructors
  2. Canberra Cup Junior Int. comp
  3. IRC (2)
  4. WMU men's gymnastics
  5. IRC--access
  6. Rock'n Roll Challenge
  7. Bill Roth (3)
  8. Gymnastics Stuff (2)
  9. vault q (2)
 10. GYMN-L Digest - 14 Dec 1995 to 15 Dec 1995
 12. Barani, etc.


Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 07:30:10 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Eastern Ma Gyms/Instructors

I have a 10 year old daughter who currently trains at level 9 and competes at
level 8. I am interested in finding a instructor/gym that she could
attend/see that would help her over the next few years. I have found that the
higher level instructors (good ones) are few and far between. My daughter has
been doing gym for 7 years and is extremely good even though she only attends
9 hours a week. She is willing to give up soccer ( her other activity that
she spends hours on) in order to concentrate on gym but I am having extreme
difficulty in finding a location that she could benefit from. I am located
approx 20 miles south of Boston and any suggestions/ideas would be


Date:    Wed, 20 Dec 1995 00:40:49 +1100
From:    ***@ENTERNET.COM.AU
Subject: Canberra Cup Junior Int. comp

Here are the results for the Junior International competition held in
Canberra, Australia tonight.  This is going to be an annual competition,
leading up to the 2000 Olympics.  Hopefully it will grow bigger.  Event
finals will be held tomorrow night.
Both Louise and I were on the score table so did not get to see a lot of the
routines, and when I did see something spectacular I had to keep asking
Louise "what move was that?"  I'm one of these people who needs to see it in
slow motion a couple of times to realise what they have done.  Needless to
say she was getting quite pissed off with me in the end.  Hopefully any
descriptions of the skills are reasonably accurate.

Women first:  There were a total of 15 gymnasts from China (2), Japan (2),
USA (1), Canada (1), Great Britain (2) Australia (7).

The two chinese girls (Bi Wen Jing & Kui Yuanyuan) were really good,
finishing 1st and 3rd overall with Mina Kim (USA) taking silver.

Bars:  Sarah Running (Canada) did a piked jaeger, tkatchev -  9.275.
Melissa Laws (Australia)-piked jaeger, geinger, double front 1/2 dismount-9.50
Mina Kim (USA) tkatchev, double layout dismount - 9.55
Bi Wen Jing (China) piked jaeger, double layout -9.8 -had a start value of 10.0.

Vault:  Kui Yuanyuan (China) full twisting yurchenko.- 9.562.
Sarah Running (Can) fell on her first vault (handspring front) but came back
to do a great 2nd vault. 9.262
Not many girls did yurchenkos, most vaults were handspring fronts, or tsuks.

Beam:  This belonged to Kui Yuanyuan.  Her beam was awesome.  She had a
start value of 10 and did double down, double down, full twist.  Then did 7
skills in a row, a switch leap, sissone, sissone into an immediate back
flick and 3 layouts.  Unfortunately she fell on a Yang Bo, fought really
hard to stay on but couldn't.  Was a real shame.  She received 9.275.
Mina Kim also had a start value of 10 and did a flick, 1/4 turn, flick layout
layout and a double back dismount for a score of 9.5.
Eri Okumotu (Japan) had a flick, double layout with a 2-1/2 twist dismount.
It was a nice routine with a start value of 9.9.
Bi Wen Jing (China) also had a start value of 10.0 but I didn't see the
routine which was a shame as she top scored with a 9.675.

Kui Yuanyuan did a triple twist (nearly) in her first tumbling row.  She got
a 9.425.
Bi Wen Jing top scored with 9.7 but I didn't see it.
Melissa Laws did a good routine scoring 9.5 but I don't remember her skills
and I'm not game to go and ask.
Mina Kim's coach protested her score and got upgraded .1 which turned out to
be the difference between silver and bronze in the end.

Womens Scores
                        Vault   Bars    Beam    Floor   Total
Bi Wen Jing (Chn)       9.6     9.8     9.675   9.7     38.775          1st
Mina Kim (USA)          9.412   9.55    9.5     9.25    37.712          2nd
Kui Yuanyuan (Chn)      9.562   9.35    9.275   9.425   37.612          3rd
Eri Okumoto (Jpn)       9.512   9.375   9.325   9.3     37.512          4th
Melissa Laws (Aus)      8.837   9.5     8.775   9.5     36.612          5th
Rebecca Wilson (Aus)    9.15    9.475   8.60    8.875   36.10           6th
Sarah Running (Can)     9.262   9.275   8.85    8.3     35.687          7th
Akiko Kawai (Jpn)       9.175   9.25    9.10    8.05    35.575          8th
Bree Munro (Aus)        9.025   9.15    8.30    8.50    34.975 =        9th
Katarina Frketic (Aus)  9.35    8.35    8.525   8.75    34.975          9th
Brooke Walker (Aus)     8.775   8.75    8.8     8.45    34.775         11th
Alyssa Harvey (Aus)     8.825   8.2     9.2     8.525   34.75          12th
Natalie Lucitt (GrBr)   8.675   8.775   8.15    9.1     34.70          13th
Rebecca Armbruster(Aus) 9.337   8.275   8.05    8.15    33.812         14th
Melissa Wilcox (GrBr)   8.75    6.95    8.975   9.0     33.675         15th

I spoke briefly with Peggy Liddick (Mina's coach) after the comp. and she
said she was really happy with Mina's performance and that she had a good
comp and Hi to everyone back in the States.  Mina was very happy too, I
could tell she was smiling a lot.

Boys:  Didn't see very much of their comp at all, can't watch everything,
but I was sitting next to the guys doing the boys scoring and asked them to
let me know of any comments on the routines.  All I got from them was:

Floor:  Taku Sato (Jpn) did a handspring front layout and a double twist
double layout in his 2nd row.

High Bar:  Dion McNamara (Aust) did a double twist, double layout dismount
David Phillips (NZ) did a triple tuck dismount.  They felt he is helping to
improve the standard of gym in NZ.

Vault:  Sato (Jpn) did a full twisting Kasamatsu.

P/Bars: There was a problem with the bars for the last gymnast (David
Phillips NZ) which they couldn't fix immediately so his score in Apparatus
final will count to his all round.

                        Floor   Horse   Rings   Vault   P/Bar   H/Bar   Total
Keiichi Nishimura (Jpn) 8.950   8.9     8.5     8.85    8.15    9.05    52.4   1
Hsang Xu(Chn)           8.3     8.15    8.95    9.0     9.0     8.7     52.10  2
Taku Saito (Jpn)        7.5     8.45    8.7     8.7     8.3     8.75    50.40  3
David Schneider (Aus)   8.0     8.4     8.15    8.35    7.9     9.05    49.85  4
Dion McNamara (Aus)     8.45    8.4     7.65    8.6     8.3     8.35
49.75  5
Justin Ng (Aus)         8.05    8.05    7.1     8.1     7.75    8.6
47.65  6
Richard Peverell (Aus)  7.25    8.35    8.0     7.6     8.25    7.85    47.3
Adrian Looney (Aus)     8.6     6.6     6.7     8.25    8.0     8.45    46.6
Justin Beaton (Aus)     8.15    8.7     6.85    8.1     6.6     7.85
46.25  9
Wade Peterson  (Aus)    7.5     7.55    6.6     8.5     6.55    8.55    45.25 10
Phillipe Rizzo (Aus)    8.35    5.75    6.25    8.4     7.3     7.1     44.15 11
David Phillips (NZ)     8.1     4.65    6.55    7.8     0.00    8.35    35.45 12
Zhao Sheng (Chn)        8.1     9.15    8.8     8.7     0.00    0.00
34.75 13

Zhao Sheng I think injured himself, I know they got ice out of the eskies
and gave it to a coach and as he didn't compete p/bar and high bar it sounds

Event finals are on tomorrow night and even tho I won't be going, I'll get
Louise to get a print out of results.  Till then


Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:33:35 -0500
From:    ***@EPIX.NET>
Subject: IRC

To danafan an elmo1 and everyone else ,it was fun chatting with you
monday night.Lets do it again soon!



Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:11:44 +0600
From:    ***@ZGS.COM
Subject: Re: WMU men's gymnastics

> Some of you may know that Western Mich. Univ. is in danger of losing
> their men's gymnastics team.  They have been successful with low
> resources, claiming four All-Americans in the last five years.  This
> is a petition to save their program.

I would like to add a few comments here.  I think it is appropriate since
I was one of those All-Americans who attended WMU and served as the
Women's Assistant Coach as well...  Our team was coached by Fred Orlofsky,
well known in the gymnastics community as a great friend and teacher.
His position as Men's Gymnastics Coach earns him no salary - he does it
for his love of the sport.  Many of the top gymnasts on the team compete
without scholarships and until recently WMU's gymnastic facilities were
well below par.  Yet, amazingly enough, we seem to have always been able
to qualify at least one person to the NCAA National Meet for a number
of years.

> If you are interested in issues affecting men's collegiate gymnastics
> in the USA, such as gender equity, and would therefore like to join
> the CGA-L mailing list, please send me a note and I will sign you up.

As far as I understand this situation, it is very unfortunate and
ludicrous to believe.  In an attempt to equalize the men's and women's
sports, the NCAA has determined that there should be an equal number of
men's and women's sports teams.  Well, unfortunately there is no women's
football team - which means that either a complementary women's sport
must be added (hah! like they're going to do that), or a sport like men's
gymnastics will be dropped.  (I am also not aware of any women's baseball
team at Western.)

I believe (if I have the whole situation correct) that the NCAA should
demand that equal revenue be given to both men's and women's sports
teams.  I don't believe that the small men's sports teams would suffer
since we don't use that much revenue anyway.  Imagine the amount of
money spent on Football being spread throughout the women's sports!
Maybe then the women's gymnastics team could afford more spotters (I heard
that women's gymnastics has as many injuries per capita as does football
at the collegiate level - and that's not too hard to believe).

Anyway, I encourage you to sign this petition.  There are many people
who rely on the collegiate program for their only opportunity to compete.
In addition, it has been a great tool for those trying to make the
National Team.

   -- Troy 


Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 08:50:26 -0700
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: IRC

Hey everyone,

Lots of people drifted in and out of the IRC chat last night!  Good
time was had by all.  In general, people agreed that 10pm EST seemed
like a good time as that accomodates the most Gymners (USA/Canada).
Monday seemed like a good night too as people can share stories from
meets they attended on the weekends.  Perhaps those in other time
zones can establish meeting times more suited to your schedule, if
there is sufficient interest.

The "official" weekly Gymn Chat will be on Monday nights at 10pm EST.
The next two weeks will be slow with Christmas and New Year's on
Mondays, but after that things should be hopping.  So, for the next
two weeks, we'll move to Tuesdays, 10pm EST.

Of course, feel free to join the #gymnastics channel whenever you
like, as Gymners will probably be often lurking! In fact, I encourage
everyone to check out it out in their free time, as with 600+ Gymners,
chances are likely that there are others wanting to talk.



Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:09:51 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: IRC--access

Does anyone know if a service provider like AOL, Compuserve or Prodigy now
supports IRC?  It really seems a shame to pay $25/month for INET access that
gives IRC connectivity when I get all Internet except IRC.  It would be alot
of fun to visit with other GYMN'ERS.  //ds


Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:23:19 -0500
Subject: Rock'n Roll Challenge

According to the TV Guide this competition will air at 9PM eastern Dec. 25
on ESPN.  Did anyone know about this competition prior to it (it happened
Dec 7th)?

The Real McCoy


Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 14:33:52 EST
Subject: Bill Roth

Anyone know what Billy Roth is up to these days?  Last I heard he
was sidelined with *another* injury so I wonder if he plans on
coming back.



Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 15:48:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Bill Roth

>Anyone know what Billy Roth is up to these days?  Last I heard he
>was sidelined with *another* injury so I wonder if he plans on
>coming back.

Bill just competed in the Kurt Thomas Invitational.  He completed comps.,
but did not do dismounts, floor and vault in the optionals due to soreness
in the patella tendon (knee).  He plans to compete in the West Point Open,
Winter Cup, and Reeses Cup in the near future.

The bicep injury is completely healed and he is back to a full work-out

I will be on the TNT road to the olympics special (I don't know when that
will be as of yet).

Overall he is doing well.

The Temple team does have a page that will be tracking him through the
upcoming meets --

That is all for now, if anyone else wants more information I would be happy
to share it.



Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:10:06 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Gymnastics Stuff

I have a few questions.  Has anyone ever done an Arabian double front off
beam?  What is a Hindorff?  What is the most difficult floor routine being
done by women?  What is the rating of a barani on beam and has someone ever
done it?



Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:14:03 EST
Subject: vault q

lately i'm full of questions..

whats the difference between a Hristakieva and a Phelps vault?



Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:47:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Bill Roth


Bill will be on the TNT road to the olympics

>> I will be on the TNT road to the olympics special (I don't know when that
>> will be as of yet).
>Really?  How nice for you!  ;)


Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 18:38:21 -0500
From:    ***@DELPHI.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 14 Dec 1995 to 15 Dec 1995

Please add my name and information to the WMU petition!




Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 20:10:38 -0600

It isn't listed on  their program schedule. THe "Nutcracker on Ice" is listed
for that time slot (9pm). Maybe things will change.




Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 23:21:04 -0500
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: vault q

A Phelps is done from a Tsukahara entry (ie a half turn onto the horse),
whereas a Hristakieva is done from a Yurchenko entry (round-off onto the
board, backhandspring onto the horse).

> lately i'm full of questions..
> whats the difference between a Hristakieva and a Phelps vault?
> thanks
> laura


Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 23:31:05 -0500
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Gymnastics Stuff

        Well, I have never seen an arabian double-front off beam, but I
think it would be neat.  A Hindorff is a free hip immediate Tkatchev
(it's Dominique Dawes' release move on UB).  I personally think the most
difficult women's floor routine is Simona Amanar's ROM.  She does a
double layout, whip through to 2 1/2 twist punch front, full-in, and a
triple twist.  Of course, she does only back tumbling, so if you wanted
the best display of both types of tumbling, I'd pick Roza Galieva, who at
the AGI did a double layout, front full punch front pike, front layout
immediate front full, and a closing piked full-in.  Of course, some of
you out there might disagree with me, and that's fine; I'd like to know
what floor routines you guys think are the most difficult!  As for the
barani on beam, it's an E, and Meng Fei from China is one of the only
ones (if not the only one) currently doing this move.  Iveta Polokova
(TCH) used to do this move very consistently during her career (1985 -
1992), but I think in the code, this move is credited to a Romanian from
the 1984 Olympic team, but I can't remember which one (Anca Grigoras?); I
wasn't in to gymnastics back then, but I think I read on this list that
the move was named after a Romanian.

> I have a few questions.  Has anyone ever done an Arabian double front off
> beam?  What is a Hindorff?  What is the most difficult floor routine being
> done by women?  What is the rating of a barani on beam and has someone ever
> done it?
>                            Lauren


Date:    Tue, 19 Dec 1995 23:28:03 -0600
From:    ***@EDEN.COM
Subject: Barani, etc.

Will someone please clarify the Barani, Rudi, etc nomenclature?

I was always taught that a Barani was an aerial round-ff. e.g. one-foot take
If so, then a Barani on beam is only a C.  However, a front salto (2 foot
take off) with a 1/2 twist is an E move.

This is also important on floor and beam dismounts where the aerial skills
have a lower value than the salto skills.

If a Rudi is a front salto with 1 1/2 twist, what is a 2 2/1 twist called?

And is a Triffis (American Anthem fame) a full twisting triple back or a
triple front with a 1/2 at the end?  My coach argued the later while the
movie claimed the former.  I don't have a Men's Code so I can't check.

Yours in gymnastics,



End of GYMN-L Digest - 19 Dec 1995 to 20 Dec 1995