GYMN-L Digest - 18 Jun 1996 to 19 Jun 1996
There are 18 messages totalling 541 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Kathy Johnson and Dina
2. The Dominique Moceanu injury and the olympics
3. Nelli Kim--Front page of Minneapolis Star Tribune on Mon June 17, 1996
4. The Top Ten List
5. The Drinking Game (Was: Re: Nationals weighted scoring...)
7. Music, Woodward
9. Dom. M. off her feet until July 7
10. Get together of those going to Trials
13. Italian International Results
14. Italian Federation URL
15. Moceanu and Miller
16. USA Gym Congress Dress Code
17. oLYMPIC oRDER
18. WAG : Australian Olympic team
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 19:42:28 -0400
Subject: Kathy Johnson and Dina
I think Kathy has only recently shown mild dislike toward Dina. Remember in
both the Worlds (where Dina was 3rd AA) and at the Goodwill Games, Kathy
seemed to be singing her praises. Even at the European Cup after Dina
competed her (at that time) new floor routine, Kathy was gushing over the
routine. I only noticed the not-so-gushing attitude toward Dina at the Pur.
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 08:00:06 -0400
Subject: The Dominique Moceanu injury and the olympics
Now we are really getting to the meat and gravy. I must say I am surprised
to hear this news. Dominique Moceanu has a stress fracture in her right
First, we are told publicly that she (her coach and parents, really) is
going to petition USA gymnastics for permission to skip the olympic trials
and got straight to the olympics, based on her national championships score,
on the basis of her sore heal. Now we are told that her leg is broken?
What happened? Well here's what was in the Atlanta Journal sports section
this Tuesday (of course, when I saw the new posts on gym about it, I KNEW
[Dom, being the media's little darling] the AJC would give me "the whole
MOCEANU EXEMPTION EXPECTED TODAY
A USA Gymnastics committee is expected today to grant any injury
petition from Olympic
hopeful Dominique Moceanu, exempting the 14-year-old from competing
in the U.S. trials.
Whether she now makes the U.S. team competing in Atlanta will remain
unresolved until the last scores are totaled at the trials in
Boston June 27-30. Sidelined by a stress fracture in her right tibia,
Moceanu will substitute the scores from the U.S. national championships at
<skip info about the remote possibly that she
not may the team>
Moceanu began experiencing pain in her right leg while preparing for
the nationals, held June 5-7 in Knoxville. She withdrew from all
event finals, rested two days after returning to her Houston home
but collapsed while attempting her first landing once she resumed
training at Karolyi's gym. She has not worked out since. Her
petition was received at USA gymnastics headquarters in Indianapolis.
"I think it's pretty clear cut", said Kathy Kelly, the USA
Gymnastics women's program director and
a member of the four woman selection committee that rules on all
petitions. "The coaches have followed everything accurately.
I'm not anticipating a great deal of turmoil with it".
But the larger question remains about Moceanu's long-term condition,
should she successfully
make the team. She suffered all winter from a painful foot condition
involving a growth plate that
kept her out of competition for four months. Following the trials,
she has only about three weeks to prepare for before Olympic
<skip other info about Bela Karolyi and
Now you have it. Right from the horse's mouth (well, the AJC's). I was
definitely surprised to see this in the paper. Interesting, isn't? Very
strange. First, we are told she had Sever's disease (a condition that
affects the growth plate [for adolescents, apparently] of the heel) back in
February. Then upon the beginning of the U.S. nationals, we are told that
she did NOT have Sever's disease, just a sore heel. Now the girl's leg is
broke. We were also told that after the worlds, she couldn't attend the IBM
Atlanta Invitational (which she was scheduled to attend), because she had a
Lord, lord, lord. What is going on? I believe she began having problems back
in October of 1995. Remember during the world all-arounds, she performed a
vault. Afterwards, she was seen shaking her leg, as if were sore. Did
anybody see anything odd during the '96 nationals? Everybody said the
gymnasts looked tired and burned out. Perhaps a reason Dominique was not
"sparkling", as some of you put it, was because her leg was about to fall off.
If her leg is really broken, as it is reported, she will not be going to the
olympics healthy. She will be placed on the team, but when she walks into
the Georgia Dome (assuming she does not attend the olympic team training
session and exhibition in Greensboro, N.C.), her leg will be numb from
painkillers. Those of you who expressed concerns about what happened in '92
with Kim Zmeskal, happening to Dom M, maybe right.
I believe this girl has been worked to death. Gymnastics takes a huge toll
on the body of young women. "Training" 8 hours a day, for 6 days a week, is
too much. The constant pounding, every day, on a sore leg, would only have
made things worse. The question now is- Is she fit to be on the olympic
team? It would only be fair for someone healthy and just as good, to be
placed on the olympic team. There are others who are worthy of that spot of
the team. But I think politics will prevale again. An aching Dom (if she
really has a broken leg, as we are told) will limp into Atlanta, and it will
be '92 all over again. This time, it will just be a different person on stage.
But the question that is really on my mind, does anybody see any other
connection here? Another person, perhaps? I smell a rat. There is a coverup
afoot. One of these days, I am going to set this board on fire. I am going
to spill the beans and rock the boat around here, big time. I am going to
reveal some information that will anger and shock a lot of people, for
different reasons. But all in due time, in due time. And when that day
comes, I am going to go buck wild. The truth will be told and no guilty
party will go unexposed.
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 20:56:23 -0400
Subject: Nelli Kim--Front page of Minneapolis Star Tribune on Mon June 17, 1996
Yes, gymnastics made the FRONT page of the Minneapolis paper! They are
doing a series about Minnesotans who will be at the Olympics, and since
Nelli is living here & will judge for Belarus, they did an article on her.
The premise of the article is that Nelli's "perfect 10's" in the 1976
Olympics came 15 seconds after Nadia's. Because of that bad timing, Nelli
"believes she might be a household name from Minsk to Minneapolis," but is
not, according to the article.
Kim came to the U.S. to help Belarus establish easier communications with
the ACOG and is in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area because her former coach,
Nikolai Miligulo, lives here. She thought she would land a teaching or
coaching job in the Twin Cities, or that she could start her own elite
school. Neither have happened. The article goes on to explain that the
local gyms didn't need her help, and she is not well-known enough to land a
job by her reputation. (I felt the article over-stated this a bit, as
Nelli has been offered a number of opportunities to judge with us at the
local JO level, but had to cancel a few times due to international
assignments. Her international assignments also made her availability for
teaching at clubs somewhat limited. Oh well, the press had to make their
After the Olympics, Kim hopes to set up her own gymnastics academy. Nelli
was in the North St. Paul office of the Family Umbrella Network, a private
agency that's helping her start her own school.
The article also said Nelli spoke "superb English." As I've shared with
GYMNer's before, I saw an improvement in her English from December to
January. She's now been here another 6 months and apparently impressed the
reporter. Goes to show how smart, besides physically talented she is!
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:11:48 -0400
Subject: Re: The Top Ten List
I thought that this was such an great topic that I decided to add my two
cents. I agree completely with first and second place. I think that Mo is
just going to knock the socks off of everyone. Her difficulty and form are
just spectacular. After first and second place though, I'd have to disagree
on certain points. First, I think that Shannon will be right up there.
She's a fighter, and her difficulty is high, and with her form... Anyhow, I
think that the rest of the list is pretty accurate.
BTW, I read in the Washington Post this morning that Moceanu might not be
able to compete in the Olympic trials because she has a four inch stress
fracture in her leg. She's hoping to petition in. Hmm...maybe the team will
be made completely from petitions.
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:28:36 -0400
Subject: The Drinking Game (Was: Re: Nationals weighted scoring...)
At 12:06 PM 6/18/96 -0700, you wrote:
>> Love the drinking game! too bad Kathy's not going to be on for
>> NBC. Now we'll have to come up with the Elfi/John Tesh/Tim Dagget version...
And, as a general comment for all commentators, one sip whenever you
"the beam's only four inches wide..."
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:38:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Petitioning
This whole petioning thing is USAG's fault. This whole trial process
is a farce. Shannon Miller and Dominique Moceanu should be on the team
period. I agree with the suggestion to have a 2 to 3 month training
camp, and choose the team members. The trials is just a money maker for
USAG. It is time to dump it! I think that many people are tired of
spending lots of money on tickets on events only to see the "main"
participants drop out.
Just my opinion,
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:23:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Music, Woodward
A few questions...
1)Does anyone know what music Simona Amanar used for floor at 96 Europeans?
2)Is anyone going to be at Camp Woodward June 30th through July 6th?
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:56:31 -0400
Subject: Re: petitioning
There was an article in the new york times today about moceanu and
miller. Moceanu has a four inch stress fracture in her calf and can not
train until july 7. It is official that she and miller will potition.
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:10:50 -0400
Subject: Dom. M. off her feet until July 7
If the article was correct and Dom can't train until that late, why even bother
going to Atlanta? She wouldn't have any time to train. She would be setting
herself up for a huge disappointment. I hope that someone else can go to the
games if there is any possibility that Dom and Bela will get there and have
another 92 or just not compete, or have Dominque break her leg.
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:57:03 EDT
Subject: Get together of those going to Trials
This idea has been brought up before, but now that it is closing in on the
actual Olympic Trials, I thought I would bring it up again and see about
actually trying to organize a dinner or lunch for those on the gymn-list who are
If you are interested in a group of us meeting and going out during the Trials,
please e-mail me at ***@compuserve.com. If would be nice to meet you all
and connect faces with the e-mail.
I will be at all four days of the artistic trials in section LOGE11 row 12 seat
While in Boston I would love to visit the Italian neighborhood and dine there or
would also like to try Portugese if anyone in Boston knows of such a restaurant.
But I am open to ideas.
Hope to hear from you.
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 22:09:17 -0600
Without a doubt the gymnast in IG page 36 is Lisa Simes, Michigan, Canadian
from Regina Saskatchewan --good friend of my family and former team mate of
my daughter. IG has printed her photo on a couple of other occasions most
recently in the NCAA preview. In a previous post I mentioned the strength of
the Canadians on NCAA teams. Stella Umeh, Leah Homma, Stacey Galloway,
Jennifer Wood, Lori Strong, Lisa and Canadian trained Luisa Portocarrero at
NCAA championships and many more throughout the colleigate teams. Thank
goodness the US has a place for these great gymnasts to continue their careers.
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 23:21:53 -0600
1) Moceanu's leg problem....hmmm... anyone else remember a gymnast named
2) Petitioning. It plain BITES. I don't care if they are young. Many
MANY other athletes have had injuries and failed to qualify or just
plain didn't qualify and they were the USA best shots for gold and never
made it. Heck, the entire 1980 Olympic team had to sit at home and only
a few held out for 1984. It may seem like its unfair or harsh, but I
would really like you who thinks that one should be able to petition onto
the Olympic team to explain to people in other sports that they should
have petitioned into the Olympics. It only works for this glamore
sport, it appears. sure, you can say 'Kerrigan was put on the team
even though she was injured'. Yeah, by someone else. NOt her self induced
3) Training Camps: They used to have these along time ago. I remember
Joan Moore Rice talking about them, but she said that they came out beaten
up out of them and did horrible in the Olympics. Maybe it wasn't her, but
I think that they had them before.
4) Kathy vs. Dina. Okay, maybe it was recent. BUt she did seem to be
very hesitant to admit that Dina was a better gymnast than Miller at
Goodwill. She was almost petrified to admit that Dina might get the
score she needed to beat Miller. She did say positive things, but she
is afraid to admit that at times in the past (brisbane, Goodwill, San Juan)
that Dina was the best. I don't know why.
I say: Maura Driscol and John Naber over Elfi and Tim in three rounds!
P.S. This whole petitioning thing is making the selection process worse than
it was in 1992. Moceanu hasn't had anymore sacrifices that the others haven't
had to make. If seventeen qualify for trials, seventeen made sacrifices.
What it comes down to is the fact that she has a famous coach, period.
And I'm not afraid to type it.
P.S.S. I would love to see Bill Roth's face when HE read about people
being petitioned onto the Trials and the Olympic Team.
Dina, Dina, Dina. (ACCEPT IT!)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:33:47 -0400
Subject: Italian International Results
I just checked the Italian Gymnastics Federation Web Page and found some
interesting results that I don't believe have been posted here yet. They're
from the International 4-team competition held in Italy on June 14 & 15.
Russia, Romania, Belarus and Italy competed.
For Russia, all Euro Championship team members competed except for
Kochetkova. She was replaced by Fabrichnova.
For Romania, as you know, both Gogean and Milo were unable to compete. So
Marinescu competed, along with Amanar, Dobrescu, Cacovean and others I don't
Belarus had their entire European Championship team, including Boguinskaia
The Individual AA final results consisted of compulsories and optionals.
Teams finished 1. Russia, 2. Romania, 3. Belarus, 4. Italy
I wonder what Marinescu is thinking about Boguinskaia now? And what's been
happening with Khorkina lately?
BTW, since I never did an intro -- I have absolutely NO gymnastics
experience. I wasn't allowed NEAR a gym because I studied ballet on
scholarship for way too many years. I've always been a fan, though (I wonder
if it has anything to do with that 'forbidden fruit' thing?), and am enjoying
the information and results I get through this list. I've been lurking for a
few months now. When I'm not doing that, I do political/labor PR in Mass.
Thanks to everybody for all their information! :)
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:42:50 -0400
Subject: Italian Federation URL
Sorry to clutter the list with another message, but I forgot to list the URL
for results of the Italian International 4 Team Competition. It is:
or for the main web page, just http://www.nbn.it/itagym
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 01:01:46 -0400
Subject: Moceanu and Miller
Remember all, this is only my OPINION, but........
I really don't understand all the criticism surrounding Miller and Moceanu
petitioning on to the US Olympic Team. If they are injured why should we
push them to get hurt more just so we can make it "fair"? Anyone who is
SERIOUSLY conidering the US getting a medal knows (whether they like it or
not) that Moceanu and Miller are an asset to the team. And to keep them off
the team for circumstances beyond their control just to prove some kind of a
point is down right foolish. How "fair" is it to them?
First of all, Shannon is the most decorated US gymnast EVER. She's been
through hell for our country and although her body is struggling to match her
will, she deserves her spot on the US Olympic Team.
Next, whether or not you care for Dominique's INDIVIDULAL gymnastics is your
business, but the US needs her on the team. She has proved herself through
out the year as the 1995 US Champion, World Trials Champion, highest US
finisher and the only US medal won in Sabae. She has continued to show her
consistancy (3ed in the nation is not BAD!) and I know people love to
criticize her style, but when it comes down to it, Dominique is an asset.
Everyone knows (including those girls on "the bubble") that if Moceanu and
Miller compete at Trials they would make the team. We all know that. So why
punish them for being among the best, with on injury? I mean, if USA
gymnastocs wants to create the best team possible, they know who they want.
Romania, China and many of the Ex-Soviet countries don't have an official
Trial. Their gymnast's results in the past speak for themselves and they
know that having an "all at stake" trial (although not always fair) is not is
not the best way to choose THE BEST team. These countries continue to
produce the team champions. Why do we have to not have our best athelete's
just to be "fair"? I guess that's what we get for living in a democracy.
Ask me for a solution, I really don't have one. All I can say is that our
best alternative in the future may be to do some sort of an AVERAGE of each
gymnast's personal and team results in the past say two years, and choose the
best team from that. Maybe that way, the gymnasts and coaches can focus more
on training and coming together as a team at this pressure filled time, (like
Romanians) instead of competing against eachother's scores and injuries.
Also, how could of we expected a superb athlete like Kim Zmeskal '92,
compete FOR her nation with the spirit of the Olympic games, when she feels
as if her own country is out to ruin her. We should have been finding the
best ways to help her and other gymnasts like Okino and Campi with slot
threatening injuries instead of competing for someone else to jump in their
After everything's said and done I pray that we end up with a medal and the
best team possible, without losing our integrity and faith in our athletes
along the way. I wish them all the best, and send Shannon and Dominique my
best wishes for a speedy recovery, and let them know I'm praying for them.
Sorry it took so long, and remeber this is not pointed at anyone, it is just
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:45:55 +0000
Subject: USA Gym Congress Dress Code
With Congress a week away, I need some advice:
Is there a dress code required of attendees to the Congress sessions?
For example, do I need to pack a suit, jacket, and tie or is
informal/casual wear acceptable?
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 18:09:10 +1300
Subject: oLYMPIC oRDER
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 22:03:53 -0400
Subject: compulsory draw correction
predictions for the second group would be Ukraine, Belarus, France, and
Spain, with the first optional session consisting of Greece, Hungary, Australia
and Germany. But again it's hard to say who'll be in what position in each
session. Should be an exciting meet!
Beth you have Germany competing as a team , but they only placed 13th in
Sabae. Australia edged them out. I think you mean Japan who got 10th.
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 16:06:56 +1000
Subject: WAG : Australian Olympic team
Just announced in the last coupla days :
Kirsty Leigh Brown (NSW)
Jade Davidson (QLD)
Joanna Hughes (VIC)
Ruth Moniz (NSW)
Lisa Moro (VIC)
Lisa Skinner (QLD)
Jenny Smith (WA)
Congratulations to all these girls. I wouldn't be surprised if they move up
a couple of places in the team event (from 12th at Sabae), assuming they all
The two gymnasts who got cut from the squad were Nicole Kantek and Genevieve
Preston. Nicole is the current Australian champion, but I must say her form
leaves a lot to be desired.
Hopefully Jenny Smith will stay healthy for the Games, as she has missed
Worlds and Commonwealth Games through injury in the last couple of years.
End of GYMN-L Digest - 18 Jun 1996 to 19 Jun 1996