GYMN-L Digest - 16 May 1996 to 17 May 1996
There are 19 messages totalling 502 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. re-intro, Front Tumbling
2. TV Alert--Junior Olympics coverage
4. Oprah TV alert (Australia)
5. TV Alert--The Ultimate Athlete
7. Dominique Moceanu
8. Olympic Trials tickets avaliable
9. The U.S. men's team training in Spartanburg, S.C. (3)
10. GYMN-L Digest - 15 May 1996 to 16 May 1996 (2)
11. The Dominique Moceanu article in People magazine (2)
13. Team Coach Wanted
14. NCAA Mens Nationals
15. Apparently Moceanu didn't have Sever's disease
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:05:37 +0300
Subject: re-intro, Front Tumbling
Well, I'll re-intro first.
I am an American who has lived in 5 countries and a few states and I
love to learn languages, of which I speak eight. I have been on this
list for almost a year (first in the UK and now here in Ukraine). I love
Gymnastics and Trampolining, and always wanted to do it when I was
little, but at the age of 12 thought I was too 'old' to start. But at
UCSD I decided to take a rec class at the age of 19 and a half, and I
have been addicted ever since.
Matt Kohls (who is also on this list)was my first coach. As I am 5'11",
Matt made me realize that I was not too tall or too old to do
gymnastics, as he is 6'1" and he flies. I was vice pres for one year and
pres for two years of the gymnastics club at UCSD, and almost never
missed a day of workout. After I graduated for University, I got so
irritated when I saw Jennie Thompson do a Standing full, that I vowed to
myself to learn how to do it, which I did and still do (despite one neck
crunch) and is the skill that I am proudest of learning because I do it
with knees and feet together in spite of my height, age, never having
competed, and my thick (and thus heavy) body type. I also coached in the
recreational program (for adults and children)at UCSD(3 years), and also
at Poszar's in Sacramento (a summer).
Here in Ukraine, I have been teaching the kids in the Acro gym where I
work out, English like "I can Jump" and "I love to flip". But as a
profession I am working with the Internet in a telecommunications
company in which I am the only non-Ukrainian.
Matt, I was in Russia when you wrote your post, so you were right at the
FRONT TUMBLING: a lone opinion
First of all, I want to agree that some of the front tumbling we have
seen is repetetive, but not anymore so than the almost compulsary boring
I think the front tumbling upgrade value is good for the sport on the
whole especially in the future. I know this was probably discussed way
back when it was introduced, but now we are starting to see the payoffs
of this encouragement of Front tumbling. If you think about it, in
women's gymnastics especially, back tumbling has been developing to the
high levels of difficulty for years, while leaving front tumbling behind
(and there was little encouragement to develop these new skills and
their training techniques).
Now after almost four years of encouraging front tumbling, new skills
and higher levels have been reached, and will continue to evolve if
front tumbling is still encouraged in the next code. We all know about
Pod and a few other women doing double fronts, and even her half out. I
beleive that since rudi's were encouraged by giving them a higher value,
that is the reason we even saw tumblers doing double twisting fronts
(Grosheva's double twisting front was better than the one I saw Neil
Thomas do too). Some people will not agree, but the report about a
couple of men doing multiple sumi front passes into double fronts is
incredible. Few would have even tried such things in the days of the
obligatory double back or two.
We have to remember that front tumbling is still behind back tumbling
more than just because it is more difficult technique, but also because
much of the development of better training and technique of front
tumbling has only just begun.
I personally would rather see a simpler front pass in a routine than
another boring double back done with bad form, especially if the other
passes were already backwards. Of course, I think alot of front passes
do not get enough deductions taken for bad form (Kochetkova, is one who
comes to mind from 94).
Khorkina and Pods are two that come to mind with front tumbling that
balances well with the back tumbling, and dance/choreography and these
are the types of routines that will ultimately benefit from having
varied highly difficult passes. Vasilenko's double front is incredible
(from the goodwill games).
I know many miss the double backs, but I miss them as much as I miss the
Yurchenko full, and I think the many different front passes that have
replaced that one pass make up for it, despite the less impressive power
in the average and weaker gymnasts (who did the double backs with bad
form to begin with).
Please remember this is just my opinion, and not meant to be a call to
all for now :)
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:50:41 EDT
Subject: TV Alert--Junior Olympics coverage
According to my local (Boston area) TV Guide, our SportsChannel
will be carrying coverage of the Junior Olympics on Monday
(5/20), from 2-4 p.m. Eastern on "Olympic Odyssey."
Since the SportsChannels are regional, check your local
listings for when "Olympic Odyssey" airs.
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:50:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Europeans
I apologise for the fact that this is not going to be of any interest
to most people, but I was wondering whether anyone is planning to be
at the Europeans tomorrow (Friday)? I haven't bought a ticket yet,
but I understand there are quite a few left, so I'm hoping to turn up
and get one. Mail me privately (preferably before tomorrow morning!)
if you're interested in meeting up.
I was shopping in Birmingham today and walked past the Byelorussian
junior team - perhaps I should be hanging around there instead!
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:39:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Oprah TV alert (Australia)
According to "The Age" (Melbourne paper), the much discussed "Little girls
in pretty boxes" Oprah episode will screen on Channel 10, Monday, 20/05/96,
Since you have some advance, perhaps you can do some
organized things to head
off its damage to clubs. //Good luck//Don
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 12:58:35 -0400
Subject: TV Alert--The Ultimate Athlete
This is a bit in advance, but on June 9 from 9-11 PM ET, a special called The
Ultimate Athlete will premiere on the Discovery channel. It profiles an
athlete/program from several different sports. In the show, Meng Fai is
interviewed and profile. It's a pretty interesting piece.
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 19:23:40 +0200
As a French gymnastics-addict, I particularly appreciate the kind of
choreography that the French girls now have.
But I would like to add a few words about it. I share the opinion someone had in
the List : that girls just travel from one corner of the floor to another one
and that's all. That has lead me to ask a question : choreography is part of
the mark, isn't it ? So judges pay attention to it, don't they ? So why has the
young Chinese girl (can't remember her name) won a gold medal in the last World
Championships (she was great, that's true, but her choreography was really
You will tell me : "what about Boginskaya ?" .Well, she has initiated something
really different in gymnastics although she sometimes dances ... strange (this
is just my point of view !!).
As a conclusion : what is the real part of choreography and general impression
in the mark ? Is it worth working on choreography when you are not really good
at it ?
And to finish, in my opinion Shannon Miller, Lavinia Milosovici and Svetlana
Chorkina are great gymnasts as they are not only great acrobats but also
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:00:33 -0400
Subject: Dominique Moceanu
I want to jump into this discussion. First, as an admitted
Dominique fan, I am concerned about her getting too much pressure on her.
Now with that said, let me give everyone something to think about. Last
week, I was watching at 1am the U.S. Olympic Trials for handball on ESPN.
The way the announcers made it sound, the USA was one of the contenders
for a gold medal. In reality, the USA got a berth because in all team
sports the host country gets to be in the Olympics. The announcers
didn't make it sound like that though. My point is that your dealing
with the media in the United States. They always assume that America is
the favorite or least in the running for the gold. Since Dominique is U.S.
Champion, highest finisher at Worlds, and a Bela gymnast they
automatically make her a favorite. Basically these people are not
knowledgable on the subject. I think Bela learned his lesson in 92, and
will try his hardest to shelter Dominique.
Just a Thought,
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 15:50:45 -0400
Subject: Olympic Trials tickets avaliable
I have three tickets for US men's compulsories and one ticket for men's
optionals. They are in the second section. Anyone interested?
Let me know as soon as possible and we can discuss price.
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:49:49 -0400
Subject: The U.S. men's team training in Spartanburg, S.C.
In the Thursday edition of the Atlanta Journal, the newspaper stated that
the U.S. men's gymnastics team, which was scheduled to train in Spartanburg,
S.C., would not do so. This decision was made by USA gymnastics because the
Spartanburg city council recently passed a resolution similiar to the ones
in several cities all over the nation, "condemning the gay lifestyle".
Just exactly does "condemning the gay lifestyle" mean anyway when uttered by
a government official? Should it the statements of one man or a group of
people affect the social and business interests of an entire city, state,
and region? This entire debacle started when ACOG bowed down to some threats
by a few radical gay and lesbians to protest during the olympics if they
gave any Olympic venues, sports, or anything to Cobb county, GA, one of the
original cities whose commisioners passed one of these "resolutions". An
entire county was stripped of any involvement with the Olympics, by the
Atlanta Commitee for the Olympic Games (ACOG). Cobb County is right next to
Fulton county, the site of the city of Atlanta and the "olympic ring". There
are olympic venues in almost all of the other counties surrounding Fulton.
I had to state that to give most of you an overview of what is going on.
ACOG has stated recently that " they are in the business of hosting and
putting together the Olympic games, not getting involved in social issues".
If that is the case, why did ACOG strip Cobb county of the planned
volleyball venue there? Also Wayneboro, GA.(in south GA) was pressured in to
caving in to ACOG, etc. because it's city was on part of the olympic torch
Now USA gymnastics has decided to move the olympic men's gymnastic team out
of Spartanburg, S.C. because word got out that some county commissioners
"condemned the gay lifestyle". The men's team was scheduled to train there
for ONE WEEK, July 3-12. Now all of a sudden, they have to move the team. In
my view, all the teams should train the Atlanta area, site of the Olympics.
There are plenty of facilites available to accomodate the men's, women's,
and rhythmic teams.
There are some people in Atlanta who are protesting the GA state flag. They
say it is racist and should be removed. No one involved with the Olympics,
ACOG, or otherwise has uttered a peep about the GA state flag and the
protestors. Nor should they. ACOG, USOC, MAOGA, Coca-Cola, IBM, and every
other group involved with the olympics should concern themselves with
putting together the best games ever. Not worry about the idiots
commissioners in Cobb County, the state flag, the Postal Service and their
stamp tee-shirts, or some nudie bar that wants open across the street from
the COCA-COLA Centenial Olympic whatever park (not an Olympic venue, some
rip-off tourist trap).
I think the decision by USA gymnastics to move the US men's team out of
Spartanburg was silly and uncalled for. These guys were VISITING Spartanburg
ONE WEEK. Unless the men's team was gay, no one should have a problem with
what a small fry like Spartanburg does, and what kind of business they see
fit to tend to. You don't schedule your vacation plans on what the local
town's politics are.......do you? If that is the case, DON'T COME TO
ATLANTA. We have enough garbage and nonsense going on here to scare away a
lot of folks.
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:35:52 +0200
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 15 May 1996 to 16 May 1996
I think I can answer this question. A gymnast from Portugal, Diana=20
Teixeira, qualified to the Olympics (I think through the World Champs.,=20
I=B4m not sure); there is another girl (Nab=E3o) who is on the same level=
she (they dispute 1st and 2nd AA in National competitions). I just read=20
in a magazine article today, covering Portuguese athletes in the=20
Olympics, that which ever is in the best overall form will go.
Well, I=B4ll take the opportunity to ask a question: I receive the digest=
form of GYMN-L; how do I switch to the "normal" form? Thanks in advance.
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:12:59 -0400
Subject: The Dominique Moceanu article in People magazine
I recently saw the article about Dominque Moceanu in People magazine. I
liked it. It was good for anybody who doesn't know much about her. It was
pretty accurate too. I have friends who know Dominque personally, so I knew
just about everything that was in the article.
Yes, I agree she is under a lot of pressure. But it's really too late to
stop it, nor is there anything we can do about it. We will just have to see
how she holds out. Personally, me being a 24 year man, with more life
experience, and maturity, I can only say I would be affected by the world
looking at me during the Olympics. The whole world. Everybody involved or
even interested in gymnastics, her parents, her friends, the media (who
really only wants a big story), USA gymnastics, the world, will be watching
her. Everybody will be expecting her to win a medal. The press has already
proclaimed her "America's best chance for gold". The olympics are being held
in the United States. She's been hailed as the next Nadia Comeneci. And
according the media, gymnastics is one of the most popular olympic sports.
The women's gymnastics tickets were the first to sell out, especially the
women's all-around final. The world will be watching and waiting.
Whewwwwwwww. Hey, even I might bust under all of that pressure, and I am not
14. Because, what happens if I don't "bring the house down"? We just have to
wait and see come July 20.
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:21:13 -0500
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 15 May 1996 to 16 May 1996
How to get off digest, for anyone who needs to know:
Send mail to firstname.lastname@example.org
in the body of the message, set gymn-l nodigest
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:19:28 -0500
Subject: Re: The U.S. men's team training in Spartanburg, S.C.
Well I'm delighted that the US men's team has decided not to train in
Spartanburg. As far as I'm concerned, the team shouldn't be spending it's
dollars (food $, lodging $, etc.) on a city that "condemns the gay
Garlfar, gay men, lesbians, and bisexual men and women make up 1/10 of the
population. That means we are 1/10 of the gymnasts in the US. A city that
condemned Italians or Jews or Irish people would be a lousy place to stay
for a week, no? So why think differently about a city that condemns "the
Ilene, who wouldn't know she had a "lifestyle" if the news media didn't
keep telling her so...
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:25:18 -0500
Subject: Re: The Dominique Moceanu article in People magazine
NCAA's held in your own backyard (Tuscaloosa). 15,000 screaming fans
going nuts over everything you do. Five other teams with as much talent
as you, and just as much performance ability. One team, Georgia, with
more talent and the ability to hand the loud crowd. And what does Alabama
do? They only nailed the highest Super Six score on record, with three
perfect scores, and nailed routines on bars and beam after an earlier
Sometimes pressure is overhyped.
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 17:52:44 -0600
Subject: Re: The U.S. men's team training in Spartanburg, S.C.
By the same line of reasoning it would be okay for the US Gymnastics
federation to have had their training camp in Bosnia prior to the
1992 Olympics. After all, no one on the team was a serb so it shouldn
You have to wake up and except two things:
1) It isn't okay to hurt a small group of people (or just ignore the
legalized hatred of them) just to satisfy others. Sooner or later you'll
see that we're all just a bunch of little groups of people and one
day the group your in will be 'condemned'.
2) Anyone who thinks that the Olympic movement and the parties involved
in it (local and federal) are not political should let me sell them land
in the ocean for farming. If the USOC wasn't interested in local
politics, then there wouldn't have been a 1980 boycott. If the IOC wasn't
interested in politics, then the 2000 Games would have been in China or
Istanbul, and if ACOG wasn't interested in politics, then the
Games wouldn't have been pulled out from Cobb county.
I, like few people on this list, have been to Cobb county and i know that
even though you are in a county which borders Atlanta, you are in
ANOTHER WORLD at times. I can't see why there are all the complaints,
since it is so close to the other countys that the people that the
people can easily travel to them and avoid the burden of millions
of people coming into there towns and cities.
As someone who used to live across the street from Georgia Tech (the
Olympic Village), if I was still there, I'd like the peace and quiet.
Dina, Dina, Dina.
P.S. Please respond privately and not to the list.
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 00:33:28 -0400
I have been watching some old gymnstics tapes with a friend and there are a few
things that jumped out at me that made me curious.
I have noticed that after Soni Meduna completes her routines that she always
shrugs her shoulders forward. Is there a medical reason for this or is it
Also, speaking of habits, I know that is has been mentioned before but Domonique
Moceanu tends to say "you know" an awful lot in her interviews, and I am afraid
to say that Bogninskaya has picked up the habit.
Just something to think about,
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 01:06:55 -0400
Subject: Team Coach Wanted
Menlo Park Gymnastics, a comprehensive program of over 1400 students, located
on the beautiful San Francisco Bay Peninsula has an immediate position
available for a compulsory level team coach. Duties include teaching
developmental classes, coaching the Level 6 & 7 compulsory team, and
developing the exhibition/demonstration team. 30 - 40 hours per week with a
salary of $14-$15 per hour. Please e-reply or contact Michael A. Taylor,
Director, at 415-858-3480.
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 01:07:07 -0400
Subject: NCAA Mens Nationals
Looking for a copy of the recent ESPN broadcast of the NCAA Men's National
Championship. If anyone has a tape that I could buy/trade for, please let me
know. Thank you!
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 01:28:13 -0400
Subject: Apparently Moceanu didn't have Sever's disease
I just found this in an article in AOL's San Jose Mercury Center. The entire
article was enormous, covering many sports.
Has anyone heard this as well?
"Meanwhile, national champion Dominique Moceanu apparently has overcome a
heel injury that kept her from hard workouts for 2 1/2 weeks. The problem
apparently was a bad bruise and not Sever's Disease, the painful growth-plate
syndrome that sometimes hits young gymnasts."
End of GYMN-L Digest - 16 May 1996 to 17 May 1996