GYMN-L Digest - 16 Jun 1996 - Special issue

There are 18 messages totalling 613 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. petitioning/politics
  2. Gymnastics Coverage and automatic qualifying
  3. Europeans
  4. Trials and US stuff
  5. GYMN-L Digest - 14 Jun 1996 to 15 Jun 1996 (2)
  7. Broadcastics weights and appendicitis...
  8. Scrunchies and Nadia
  9. WWoS
 10. <No subject given>
 11. Displaced Digests
 12. Questions & Comments
 13. USAIGC Nationals Championships
 14. USA Champs - Weighted Scores (2)
 15. GYMN-L Digest - 10 Jun 1996
 16. Petitions


Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 16:51:23 -0400
Subject: Re: petitioning/politics

>What about Bart Connor's petition in 1984?  I believe he was having
>shoulder/upper arm surgery at the time.
>Maybe the rules were different then.  Could someone with a better memory

Due to his injury, Bart missed the US Championships, but as a member of the
National Team, he petitioned to compete at the Trials.  His petition was
granted and his score at Trials counted 100% for the Olympic Team rather
than the 40/60 split.  I think that's right!  His injury was, I believe, a
torn left biceps.



Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 16:51:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Gymnastics Coverage and automatic qualifying

>         The Olympics are all about politics and egos.
> The country with the best stars and the most gold medals is the champ.

I certainly hope you are wrong.  The Olympics is about striving to do your
best.  It's about participation and struggle.  It's about bringing honor to
your team and country and for "the glory of sport".  "Politics" is a
component of all facets of life.  But the Olympic heritage is peace and
fellowship among nations and individuals.  Maybe y'all will label me as
naive, but I feel the Olympic spirit still shines brightly.  How else do you
explain thousands of people lining up to see the Torch go by, in some cases
waiting for hours and hours in horrible weather?  When the Torch passed
through Louisville last week, it was accompanied by a Georgia law
enforcement officer from Peachtree City Georgia who is in charge of the
Torch's security as it crosses the country.  His son, Jeff Sheppard, is a
member of the University of Kentucky National Championship men's basketball
team and was chosen as one of the runners.  Mr. Sheppard said he was more
proud of Jeff running with the Torch than anything he had ever done.  So, is
that politics and ego?  I truly don't think so.  I've been fortunate to know
several Olympians.  Some won medals, some didn't.  I don't think any of them
became Olympians to receive financial gain.  Each of them set a goal to
strive to be the best they were capable of being.  As Baron Pierre de
Coubertain said:
        "The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win, but to take part.
        Just as in life, the most important thing is not the triumph, but the

As a friend once said to me, "Each of us is a champion if we live by this
creed, whether or not we win any medals."  And let's not assume anything
less than gold is a loss.  Being second or third in the world is no mean
accomplishment.  Being an Olympian is success in and of itself.  I wish I
could be the eighth best in the world at my chosen endeavors!



Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 17:36:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Europeans

I thought Euro's were great.  Question:  What happenned to Gogean on bars that
supposedly made the Romanians so worried?  I thought she just had a normal
fall...  Another Question:  I was PO'd that they didn't show Khorkina's floor--
anyone know what music she's using?  I hope she's not still with Carmen, it's
been 2+ years.  I did like the balletic aspect of Pod's floor routine, but she
followed it up with some cutesy move and it just bothered me--she's so
elegant but it rarely shows with her choreography.  Also, Europeans really
made me happy because it showed that the recent trend of  having older and
taller gymnasts is not just limited to the US!  Can you believe, all three
AA medalists at Euro's were over 5'!  I think this is great for the sport, and
the "old gymnast" phenomenon isn't just limited to Boginskaya.  Also, I don't
like her choreography nearly as much as her older routines, because it seems
really slow, with a lot of sitting/standing around shaking or something.  One
more thing--does Romania have to always have floor music of a modern, fast
version of a classical piece?  First Lavinia's electronic "Fur Elise" and now
Amanar to a fast "Nutcracker" piece?  Ugh.  Go back to Lavinia's 1991 or 1992

Someone asked about a piked chen possibly being named after Podkopayeva.  I
don't think it's credited to anyone, but if so, it's not to Lilia because Eva
Rueda was doing a piked chen back in 1991.

:) Joy


Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 17:54:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Trials and US stuff

The US wanted to have the trials count 100% and be so close to the Olympics so
that they could have the "best team at that moment" on the squad.  I don't
agree with this (I'd rather have a group of 10-12 gymnasts train together for a
few months before the games and then have trials just for them or something
like that, something more Romanian), but if that's the philosophy, then I
think they should STICK TO IT.  I don't mind gymnasts petitioning to compete at
trials, but it is insane that a gymnast can petition onto the Olympic team.
I don't care if NADIA wants to do it--it isn't fair and it isn't consistent
with the rules.  USAG decided that they wanted ONE competition to determine
the Olympic squad, and they should stick to it.  If a gymnast is too injured
to compete at trials, she's too injured to be on the squad.  The Olympics are
what, 2-3 weeks after trials?  If she's too injured to compete at trials, it
is certain that the injury will not be healed in 2-3 weeks.  C'mon, people,
have some balls!

And the whole head coach deal--USA doesn't need a head coach.  If they have to
have one, it should be a coach who doesn't have a gymnast on the team, as to
decrease the chance of favoritism.  As of this moment, it looks like Mary Lee
Tracy will have 2 gymnasts and so will Karolyi.  Steve Nunno has 1, maybe 2
(Thompson), Kelli Hill has 1, hopefully.  And the contenders for 7th spot
aren't coached by any of the above.  So how do you resolve this?  Of course, I
say Mary Lee all the way because of the attitude and support, but that's
simply an opinion.

What I really think we need is Stormy Eaton.  I miss him so much, as does the
entire gymnastics community.  He would be the perfect head coach.  Just
watching him at any competition with any of his gymnasts (and a few others!)
reminds me of how important he really was to the sport.   I watched a tape of
the Men's 1991 US Champs (the one where Waller won) and that's when Trent Dimas
completely crashed his Yurchenko.  Trent's girlfriend was in the stands and she
was a wreck...who goes up there and comforts her and explains what is going on
(without being flashy for attention, mind you) and stays with her until the
whole ordeal is over?  Stormy.  I really miss that guy.


Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 18:27:55 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 14 Jun 1996 to 15 Jun 1996

In a message dated 96-06-15 06:05:10 EDT, you write:

>I thought Amy Chow was something like 15 or 19 days to young to go to the
>olympics. Is this not true? How old is she?

Amy is definetly at least 15 because I think at the time of the 1994 World
Championships in Dortmund I think she was 15 or maybe really close to it.


Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 18:28:44 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 14 Jun 1996 to 15 Jun 1996

In a message dated 96-06-15 06:05:10 EDT, you write:

>Hello all,
>I have been unsubbed for a long time (had a baby last year - not really
>up to date on things at all) but I wanted to subscribe to ask a few basic
>questions about the Olympics that I thought you all would know.  Thanks
>for your help.
>How, exactly, does one qualify for the Olympics?
>When are the qualifying meets (nationals? the trials?)?
>When will these be televised and on what stations?
>Thanks very much for your help -

Women qualify by the top 14 at Nationals go to the Olympic Trials and then
they start all over with no score held over. I think the top 6 or 7 go with
one being the traveling alternate.
the Nationals were already, they were held the weekend of June 5 or 6-9. and
the Olympic Trials are June 29, and 30th.
The Nationals were already televised on the 8 and the 9, but the Olympic
Trials I think will be televised on the 29 and the 30 of June, check your
local listings


Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 17:41:00 -0600

1) Selection: I still say it bites and I still want to know what everyone
sees in MOceanu!!! Miller, I can see it, but Moceanu? Duh??

2) Europeans:

        a) The venue. Was it just me but weren't there alot of empty seats?
        I was surprised. I thought it would have been packed. I liked
        the venue, though.

        b) Coverage: Well, I think the issue about a whole show vs.
        splitting it has to do with sponsorship. Perhaps STATE FARM would
        only pay for enough for one show and WWoS split it so as to
        get as much out of the rating for two shows than for one. I think
        it is economics, since I know that Bart and Kathy would love to
        get on air and really show us some of the cool routines.

        c) Commentators: I liked Kathy and Bart! I alos like how
        Kathy finally meantione that Pods always separate her legs
        on the geinger but never gets deducted (which she immediately
        followed up with "and I don't know why") and the comment
        about the Milo's vault (pronounced 'pi-ked').

        d) The competition: Well, Bogi did well and won herself a medal
        under Retton/Davidova condition (staying togther while the world
        is falling apart). She obviously, regardless of her grace, experience,
        and smile, is far behind her competitors in content. I also found her
        FX to be boring. [There were parts when the music was moving and
        she was just standing there. Is that dance? I liked the old
        late 80s stuff.] Plus, wish she threw her double tucks punch
        fronts. Love that skill.

        Pods looks really good (and I have to ask: When was the LAST time
        she lost an AA title? Early 1995? I don't know.) Her music and
        routines suit her and I love the stalder on UB. She just has
        great extension in that move. Khorkina looked good, too, and
        her BB was nice.  Milo looked liked she was going through the
        motions. She is starting to look like Bogi did in Barcelona. IN the
        top group but doesn't really belong there.

        Amanar is just incredible! She did the highest triple full I
        have ever seen on FX. She must be capable of a quad! She's
        such a fast twister! And power. I felt bad for her because, to
        me, she deserved to beat bogi on content. But, that time will come
        in Atlanta.

Aside from that, my only other comments were about the lack of coverage of
Dina Kotchekova, the bets female gymnats competiting today (grin!). In
retrospect, it makes sense that they didn't show her. I don't think Kathy
likes her based on her unfounded comments about her performance on BB in
San Juan.


P.S. Anyone else notice that the rampant use of the stoop-on jumpt to
high bar is virtually gone now. Wow! It seems like the gymnast woke up
all the sudden. However, the once exotic shaposhnikova is becoming as
common as the 'Yang Bo' on the Chinese women's team's beam routines.


Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 18:45:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Broadcastics weights and appendicitis...

About Gogean's appendicitis, in the USA they've developed a really good
and fast surgical procedure to where it is almost done on an out-patient
basis.  I don't suppose Romanian medicine is quite as advanced from what
I've seen of their hospitals.  It's too bad--most people are back to
normal after a little sleep.  My cousin had her appendix taken out and
she was in the hospital for 14 hours, I think--she stayed after the
operation for a little so they could make sure she was doing okay.  She
was running the next day...

Also, about NBC broadcasting the weights of gymnasts in the stat bar, I
am completely against it.  As a former gymnast and a former ED sufferer,
it is really influential to young gymnasts when they see that their
idols weigh less than they do, and it leads to big problems.  Also, it
just isn't necessary.  I like that they display the gymnasts' heights,
but the weights have to go.  I wrote to NBC and I'm not sure they will
listen to one, I was wondering if you guys could take a
quick minute to e-mail NBC a letter saying that you're against them
showing the weights I would appreciate it SOOO much.  This is a huge
issue for me, and I hope you'll find a little time to help me (& the
gymnastics community) out.  The e-mail address for NBC's sports
department is:

Thank you everyone.

:) Joy


Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 18:51:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Scrunchies and Nadia

I've been told that my post on the petitioning to trials was a little
Confusing with the Nadia reference.  I was making a point that even the
best gymnast in the world (Nadia) shouldn't be allowed to petition.  I
wasn't saying that Nadia is in the petitioning ordeal or anything!  I'm
really sorry for the confusion.

Also, about the hair scrunchies that Shannon usually wears, not only did
I have a problem with Nunno's entire team doing their hair exactly like
Shannon's, but Jennie Thompsons's hair scrunchie was bigger than her
head!  Oh well, 'tis a non-deal now...

And sorry for posting so much!  My mind is filled with
gymnastics-related stuff...

When are European event finals on?  I have heard next Sat. and I have
heard sometime in July too.

:) Joy thanks everyone for listening/reading...


Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 19:16:08 -0400
Subject: WWoS

     This is just a guess, but I think one reason WWoS might split up the
coverage of gymnastics (and any other sport they're covering) is for ratings.
They want the audience to tune in for the ENTIRE show, not switch channels as
soon as viewers see the coverage of the event they want to see. I, too, find it
extremely annoying, but the networks are concerned with ratings. By structuring
the show the way they did, they forced gym fans to keep their dials on ABC for
the whole 90 minutes and marathon fans to tune in for an hour.
     I was VERY happy with ABC for not putting the gymnasts' weights in the
graphics - way to go! I also thought they did a good job of getting in as many
routines as possible, considering the time constraints they had. We saw all 4
routines from each AA medalist with the exception of Milo's floor (but I kind
of think we should be grateful for that... Her new routine is almost painful to
watch; it's way beneath her). We also got to see a few routines from
non-medalists, which NEVER used to happen. Yes, it would have been nice to see
Khorkina's floor, but I'm happy she got shown at all! And no fluff pieces. That
was nice. To put things in some perspective, I think ABC got in 15-17 routines
in the maybe 45 minutes they had to work with. NBC had 2 hours for US Nationals
(women) and showed about 30 routines. That is fantastic, of course, but
proportionately ABC actually comes out slightly ahead. I find this even more
impressive considering this was a European event so (obviously!) no Americans
were in it. The networks are usually fairly good at showing Americans, but
foreigners tend to get slighted. And remember, ABC is still going to show us
event finals, so they're not done yet. (I think the air date has been moved to
July 6.)
     As for Dina's not being shown, I doubt Kathy had much to do with that. The
producers decide who gets shown, not the commentators.



Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 17:26:31 GMT
From:    ***@NOBLESNET.ORG
Subject: <No subject given>

Unsuscribe GYMN-L


Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 18:33:37 -0500
From:    ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: Displaced Digests

I accidentally deleted the last two digests.  I was wondering if anyone
out there still had them and would mind forwarding them to me at:

Thanks in advance.



Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 20:32:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Questions & Comments

At the USAIGC Nationals, Breanne did not compete for New England Express.
On the program she was listed to compete but the alternate competed
instead.  I am assuming Breanne was injured or not well.

>First of all, congrats to Vanessa Atler, for winning Juniors. WAY TO GO!!!!!
> Nice to see Gail Kachura back in action. Championships was her first major
>meet in a long time. Does anyone know what happened to Breanne Rutherford??
>Congrats also to Miller. I am looking forward to her 2 double layouts---floor
>and bars!!!! And Jayice's well deserved 2nd place!!!  Can't wait till event
>Looks like Thompson's also back---2 whips to full in. WOW. Does anyone know
>her other passes??
>I loved the quick updating on the USAG website also-----for those of you that
>haven't read the "Getting to know Vanessa Atler"  I suggest that you do. It's
>Well, bye for now~~~
>~Vanessa Atler & Jamie Dantzscher~
>                Sydney 2000

"The early bird catches the worm.  But, no one throws it up in his nest!"



Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 20:56:49 -0400
Subject: USAIGC Nationals Championships

I just returned from Haines City, Florida where the USAIGC National Team
Championships were held.  It was a very good, close and exciting

Gymstrada led the first two rotations to be overtaken by GymCarolina in the
third rotation by .2 points.  However, Gymstrada came back in the last
rotation to win their first national team title by .05 points.

I can't comment on other gymnasts because my eyes were, for the most part,
glued to the girls from Gymstrada--the team my daughter competes for (I
guess I am a little biased here).  Alexis Brion had a great vault, floor
and bars--scoring a 9.8 on each.  She stepped out of bounds on her double
layout.  Alexis had a near fall on beam and scored a 9.525.  Cory
Fritzinger competed a fabulous bar routine scoring a 9.9.  Katie Mcfarland
scored well in vault and bars (9.75 and 9.65 I think).  Kit Johnson
performed a very solid beam routine for a score of 9.75.  Gail Kachura of
Capital had a gorgeous floor routine, scoring a 9.9.  I believe she scored
a 9.8 on bars too and had a fall on beam.  I remember other high scores but
couldn't tell you from whom or what team.  Sorry.

Here are the final standings: (sorry that I didn't bother to write down the

1.  Gymstrada (Virginia Beach, Va)
2.  GymCarolina A-team (Raleigh, NC)
3.  Capital Gymnastics (Burke, VA)
4.  American Twisters (Pompano Beach, FL)
5.  Ricochets Gymnastics (Willow Grove, PA)
6.  New England Express (Newington CT)
7.  GymCarolina B-team (Raleigh, NC)
8.  Verdugo (Burbank, CA)

"The early bird catches the worm.  But, no one throws it up in his nest!"



Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 21:07:25 -0400
From:    ***@HICOM.NET
Subject: USA Champs - Weighted Scores

Howdy, GYMNers:

Firstly, I'd like to thank all the folks who reported and gave insight on Nats
and Euros.  Greatly appreciated, I assure you!!!

As you may remember, I am running the Fantasy Gymnastics game that about 25 of
you signed up to participate in.  I am sitting here FINALLY compiling all the
scores (PUR Worlds, Euros, USA Champs), and I accessed the results of USA Champs
from the USA Gymnastics Homepage.  For the all around scores, they give the
scores (comps and optionals) for each event, the AA score and a 'weighted'
total.  Here is an example, taken directly from the Webpage:

Name            VT      UB      BB      FX      AA      Weighted
Shannon Miller  9.875   9.800   9.800   9.875   39.350  47.220
Dynamo          9.900   9.850   9.300   9.900   38.950  31.160

What the heck is this 'Weighted' score?  Don't they just take the AA totals for
comps and optionals and add them together?

Clueless in Jersey,

PS--And hang on, Fantasy GYMNers, I promise when I get an answer to this
question, and arrange all the info I have, I'll let you know your standings!  :)


Date:    Mon, 17 Jun 1996 10:53:12 EDT
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 10 Jun 1996

>Subject: Kratsov injured, will miss Atlanta
>"The Age" reported on Friday that Andrei Kratsov has been injured and will
>miss the Atlanta Olympics.
>For those of you who don't know, Kratsov is the current Australian champion,
>defending his title successfully in March this year.  He also finished 27th
>AA at the Sabae Worlds, and is the first Australian male for ages (possibly
>ever) to qualify for AA at Worlds or Olympics.
>No other details were provided, and I'm not sure who will replace him, but I
>suspect it will be Bret Hudson as I'm pretty sure Brennon Dowrick was the
>other Aussie male going to Atlanta.

He tore his Achilles tendon, has had the operation and is now back in
Canberra.  He has been replaced by Bret Hudson.  He was discharged on Friday I
think and before returning to Canberra both he and Warwick Forbes (Aust. mens
coach) visited Damien Crozier.

Louise (daughter) also visited Damien in Sydney on Friday.  (Damien was an
Aust. rep at the last worlds and got 40% burns to his body when his electric
blanket caught fire in his parents garage which he'd converted to a flat.)  He
is healing nicely, giving the nurses the shits, may not need as many skin
grafts as originally thought, is still pretty hyped up on drugs, depressed,
desperate for a beer, but the main thing alive.  He lost all his mementos in
the fire, (his trophies were in his parents house).  Warwick has given him his
own tracksuit and bits a pieces from Worlds to replace some of Damiens.
He had bought a new bed that day, but had not got the mattress yet.  Had
wanted to buy a water bed but could not afford one so bought the other bed
instead.  His mother quipped if he hated the new bed that much, he didn't have
to burn it.  He should be in hospital for at least another 6 weeks.

Australian womens team to be named tonight.  Will post tomorrow who's on it,
tho I have a fair idea.



Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 21:23:29 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Petitions

The USAG Men's program Committee makes the rules for qualifying procedures
for Men's Competition and the Women's Program Committee (or whatever they
have named the equivalent of the MPC) makes the rules for the women.  Each
has exclusive authority to operate their own program; they do NOT have to be
consistent with each other in operating policy.  They DO, both, have to
function within such rules, policies, and procedures as established by the
USAG Board of Directors, the FIG, the U.S. Olympic Committee, and the IOC.
 They also have to watch out for the laws of the United States.


Date:    Sun, 16 Jun 1996 19:25:02 -0700
From:    ***@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU
Subject: Re: USA Champs - Weighted Scores

On Sun, 16 Jun 1996, Michele Walker Crefeld wrote:

> Name            VT      UB      BB      FX      AA      Weighted
> Shannon Miller  9.875   9.800   9.800   9.875   39.350  47.220
> Dynamo          9.900   9.850   9.300   9.900   38.950  31.160
>                                                         78.380
> What the heck is this 'Weighted' score?  Don't they just take the AA totals
> comps and optionals and add them together?
I think this is why:
        Nationals are weighted 60% compulsories, 40% optionals. This is
to ensure that the US has a legitimate shot at a good team score by
qualifying to the latest team finals round as they possibly can. the top
four teams in compulsories make the final team competition, and they are
the only ones who have decent shots at medals, since the highest scores
tend to be given out at the latest round.



End of GYMN-L Digest - 16 Jun 1996 - Special issue