GYMN-L Digest - 15 Jan 1996 to 16 Jan 1996

There are 14 messages totalling 415 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Moceanu's hop
  2. lefties, righties, and The Way You Twist
  3. Hi
  4. intro/handedness
  5. Sorry
  6. Righty/lefty
  7. front and back walkovers
  8. ADMIN: Video Database
  9. Moceanu's hop and Out-of-bounds
 10. Introduction
 11. Fwd: Re: UPCOMING EVENTS: LA Lights RSG Invite
 12. Chinese Women & lefties
 13. lefty/righty
 14. TV Alert - Seattle area


Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 09:19:41 -0600
From:    ***@ZGS.COM
Subject: Re: Moceanu's hop

> ... I mean, if it were a
> LEAP...but it is not technically a leap, it is a pointless
> rebound with absolutely no artistic or FIG gymnastic value.

  Remember when Milosivici did that leap out of the 1-1/2 punch
barani? (I think that was the pass.)  Now that was a leap and
VERY cool.  I would definitely take a deduction from Moceanu
for a lack of control on the landing.


Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:01:59 -0600
From:    ***@ZGS.COM
Subject: Re: lefties, righties, and The Way You Twist

> It always seemed to me that a rightie would want to spin to the left
> (i.e. right shoulder is coming across the front of the body)

  I'm a "rightie" (that is, my right hand goes down first on my
round-off - twisting left) and I twist to my right.  I have always
taught others to do the same thing.  I used to do a 2-1/2 twist
step-out into a RO FF ... and that would have been very dangerous
if I twisted to my left.
  To prove this, try this little experiment. Stand on the FX mat
(or in your kitchen, or whatever) with your back toward the
direction that you tumble.  Now turn a half turn to your right
and do a "rightie" round-off.  Try it again with a half turn to
your left (and a "rightie" round-off).  Now pretend that you're
doing a 1-1/2 or 2-1/2 step-out (also works with front twisting)
and you didn't quite make the required twist.  So repeat the
above experiment with a 1/4 turns and the "rightie" round-off.
The twist to the right works fine - you just cartwheel into the
round-off.  The twist to the left?  Ouch.
  There have been very good gymnasts who don't twist in the
"right" direction (no pun intended).  The whole difference
between the Tsuk-full (proper) and Kazamatsu depends on which
direction you round-off and twist.  If you're vaulting some of
the "non-flipping" vaults (e.g. 1/2-on 1-1/2-off, etc.) then
you're forced to improve your technique.  That is, the same
direction twisters have this one easier.  (Actually, the 1/2-on
isn't technically a round-off, but it does look like one.)
  The bottom line when deciding which way to twist is do
whatever feels most comfortable.  If you're new to the sport and
both directions are equally as comfortable (or equally as
awkward), then twist in the "correct" direction.

  Disclaimer: I have seen several gymansts do excellent 1-1/2
twist step-outs and round-off out with the "spin" all rotating
in the same direction.  It's just more difficult that way
because you can't cheat.



Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 09:37:12 -0800
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Hi

many of the past digests. I am really happy to see so many different
opinions and so many different topics. I have been doing gymnastics for
4 years but I have never competed. I made the competitive team last
fall but I was unhappy with it. I take clases 3 times a week and  have
made some really great friends.
    I recently read the book and was appalled. It showed only the
negative points of gymnastics. I am a big fan of Bela's. He creates
champions. I am also a huge fan of Kim Zmeskal's. She is doing soo well
and I think that America is very lucky to have her back. How do you
guys think she'll do?
    Well, I think that I've written enough. I am looking forward to
talking with all of you.


Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:01:39 -0500
From:    ***@CCIW.CA
Subject: intro/handedness

Hello everyone,

After lurking for four months, I am finally introducing myself. I am a
former gymnast and ongoing gymnastics fan from Mississauga, Ontario
(Canada). I reached a level you might call high recreactional, where we
would do several invitational meets a year, not in the provincial stream. I
quit when I was 16 (11 years ago) due to injury. You know how some people
dream about being able to fly or swim underwater? I dream I'm flipping and
twisting unlike anything I was ever capable of. If my wrist would permit
it, I'd be in an adult gym class. Or if I had a house like Bill Gates',
with its special trampoline room, I'd be living out those flip fantasies...

Anyway, I've been interested in the "lefty/righty" thread going on over the
last few days. I wonder if anyone ever had the kind of problems I did with
some moves related to handedness.

1) Cartwheel, Back Walkover on beam. My cartwheel was right-handed (right
hand down first). Thus I landed with my left leg forward. But for the
walkover, I liked to lift my right leg, so I had to swing it forward first,
which looked awkward, and wasn't truly a cartwheel-walkover.

2) Split leap. My dominant split was right-leg-forward. But I liked to take
off from my right leg. So I had a high but puny left-leg split leap.

The coach got us to switch hit simple moves like splits, cartwheels and
walkovers, but I never had the confidence to take these "wrong-side" skills
to the beam. Do talented gymnasts normally learn right and left versions of
various moves to facilitate transitions, or substitute when necessary?
Also, is there credit given for demonstrating a skill on both sides?



Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:11:41 -0800
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Sorry

discussions at 10pm on Monday nightson IRC? Is there any other times
you have it?


Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 14:25:53 -0500
From:    ***@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Subject: Righty/lefty

Just my 2 cents as a former, struggling gymnast.  I too am a right-hander
for most tasks, but was primarily a lefty in gymnastics.  (splits, leaps,
cartwheels, round-offs etc.)  But, I also wanted to twist to my left, not
that we twisted much beyond turns, jump fulls etc. back in the old times!
But, there were some things, I liked to be a righty for--cat leaps, tour
jete's etc.

Anyhow, as a young adult coach & judge, I used to learn all the
compulsories left because it was easier for me.  I now don't bother, but
learn them whichever way they are written.  I can translate to the other
side if needed, but have learned I can learn gymnastics to the right now

Overall, however, I believe it's important for gymnasts to do the basics
BOTH WAYS!   When in a training situation with kids (at clinics/camps) I
always make them try things in BOTH directions.  (I usually am working
basic dance--leaps, turns etc. with them.) For example, sometimes kids can
learn to "spot" a turn better turning their less-preferred way because they
have to THINK.  When turning their preferred way, they can just spin, and
sometimes "get away with" bad technique.

I think most of the dancers out there would agree with the idea of using
both sides of the body to develop the muscles evenly.



Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 12:06:18 PST
From:    ***@GEOWORKS.COM
Subject: front and back walkovers

> For example, to do a backward walkover, they tell you to bend over backwards.
> Then they say to shift your weight until it is over your shoulders and then
> simultaneously kick one leg in the air.  Am I wrong in assuming that one
> needs extremely strong arms and a very flexible back and an ability to do
> an oversplit?

        Back and front walkovers are almost exclusively flexibility.
Without the flexibility you might need some strength to compensate, but you
want to work your arch to get this move.



Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:41:17 -0800
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: ADMIN: Video Database

In order to help you find gymnastics videos, Gymn has decided to create a
video database.  Our purpose for this is to facilitate the search for
tapes.  I'll be the database maintainer and will handle requests.  So,
instead of posting a message to Gymn asking "who has this video," you can
mail your request to me.

We would like our database to contain not only the names of Gymners who'd
like to trade videos with others, but also those people and companies who
sell "professional" videos.  To get started, we need your help.  :-) If
you'd like to be included in our database, please send me (by private

1.  Your full name/company name
2.  Your address (postal and e-mail)
3.  Your phone number
3.  A list of your available videos, indicating for *each* competition:
      a.  picture quality
      b.  play length
      c.  source
      d.  price (if applicable)

I'll post a message to the list when the database is operational.

We hope to have things work like this:  if you're looking for videos of
the '95 US Nationals (for example), you would e-mail me your request and I
would send you a list of all the people/companies who have videos of that
meet.  You would then contact them directly to purchase a video or work
out a trade.

MAJOR DISCLAIMER:  We do not condone the illegal reproduction of
copyrighted video tapes, nor do we take responsibility for video content,
quality, etc.  We are merely trying to assist Gymners in locating
gymnastic videotapes.

Debbie :-)


Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 18:23:01 -0600
Subject: Re: Moceanu's hop and Out-of-bounds

For everyone who was complaining about Moceanu's hop, there is a little
bit of justice, I guess for lack of a better word> Without the hop, it
would've been VERY close as to whwther or not she would have gotten the
Out-of-bounds deduction in the all-around in Sabae. Her toes are right at
the edge of the mat before the hop, both feet out after it.

Speaking of the out-of-bounds, how much is the deduction and does it
matter how many feet are out? The reason I ask is that I don't know if
the scores of some I've seen with both feet out look right with .2 instead
of .1, and I'm wondering what the .2 for beth Wymer's floor in the Super
Six was. I know she was out with a fall with both feet on her first pass.


Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 18:59:41 CST
Subject: Introduction

Hello everyone, my name is Olin.  I am 19 years old and a sophmore at the
University of Missouri at Columbia, where I am a secondary English education
major.  My hometown is El Dorado Springs, Missouri, a small town of around
4,000 people.  I was first introduced to gymnastics at a small class taught
locally, and later commuted to Ozark Mountain Gymnastics in Bolivar, MO.  Our
gym in Bolivar wasn't fancy, but the instructors were top-notch.  I learned,
among other things, a RO layout-full on mats!  No spring floors, mind you.  I
never had a chance to compete, due to the size of our club, so I became a
cheerleader instead.  I cheered for three years in high school and one semester
in college, here at MU.  Collegiate cheerleading was fun, but it took up a LOT
of time.  Now I am your average student who enjoys televised gymnastics as well
as MU's women's gymnastics meets.  As you have heard, Shannon Miller is slated
to appear at the Cat Classic meet February 2-3.  It should be a fantastic
experience.  Last year's was awesome with Jenny Hansen landing the first
handspring tucked-front full vault in NCAA history!  I look forward to being
part of this list and hope to contribute info any way I can.


Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 21:34:26 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Fwd: Re: UPCOMING EVENTS: LA Lights RSG Invite

This got sent to me alone by mistake ...

Forwarded message:
Subj:    Re: UPCOMING EVENTS: LA Lights RSG Invite
Date:    96-01-15 18:21:57 EST

Several GYMN'rs are Red River Valley Rhythmics' parents.  We will have at
least 2 girls at LA Lights (L-10 Lindsay Numedahl & Level 9 Stephanie
Harken), and would appr feed back if anyone attends.  We'll hear some of it
by phone, but you parents know how that goes--they call when THEY're happy,
which isn't the same as not doing well...guess you have to be a parent to
understand that.  ;)   There may be one or two others going, but I'm not
certain yet.//Don


Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 22:14:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Chinese Women & lefties

Chris wrote:
>        With all this talk about lefties and righties going on, I just
>thought I'd add that in my 10 years of watching gymnastics, I have never
>seen a chinese women gymnast who didn't round-off left hand first.  If
>anyone out there can vouch as having seen a Chinese girl round-off right,
>please let me know.  I always thought this was interesting, since all
>other countries have a variety of lefties and righties.

Ancient Chinese secret...  ;^)

I've also wondered why I CW, RO, Barani-out, underswing-half, half-on vault
left-hand first & split left, while I full-twist & pirouette to the right.
Must be in the genes, eh?...

Trouble with this is, I used to have to change feet on a tick-tock and
couldn't do half-on twist-off vaults.  No big deal since I never did

Y'know what's the biggest problem though?  Figure skating!  It's so annoying
that they say that everyone who is right-handed should jump/turn/spin
counter-clockwise.  On the ice, I prefer to go clockwise.  It's my natural
turning direction.  All my left turns suck and feel terribly unsafe.  But
everything - especially dances - goes counter-clockwise.
At public skating sessions, traffic seems to always go counter-clockwise
like at the track.  Some right-handed gymnasts that I know also prefer
going clockwise.  I've always maintained that your natural turning direction
has nothing to do with your handedness.  I said this on rec.skate (now ... --so glad GYMN's not on usenet), and got
a lot of bucketheads saying that I was basically a non-conformist who was
disturbing their peace, and nothing that I could say would ever change
skating and reality as they know it.

Well, back to the gym for further non-conformance.




Date:    Mon, 15 Jan 1996 23:55:26 -0500
Subject: lefty/righty

I find it most common for people to do opposite of which hand they use.
Most of the girls I know that are right-handed out of the gym, are
left-handed in the gym.  I am right-handed, I have never been a gymnast,
but whenever I did cartwheels or roundoffs, I was a leftie.  It was the
same with running.  I put my right foot in front of me and take off with
my left.  I think it just comes natural to the person just like being a
leftie or rightie is.  I find the same kind of things in other sports.  A
cousin of mine is a leftie, but bowls and plays baseball with his right.
Anyway, I don't think we will ever find out a connection between it all.


Date:    Tue, 16 Jan 1996 00:34:40 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: TV Alert - Seattle area

For those of you in the Seattle (possibly others in the NW ?) area who get
Prime Sports Northwest, they are supposed to be showing 2 hours of a
collegiate meet (AZ State vs OR State I think) this coming Saturday, January
20th from 5pm to 7pm.



End of GYMN-L Digest - 15 Jan 1996 to 16 Jan 1996