GYMN-L Digest - 12 Jun 1996 to 13 Jun 1996

There are 22 messages totalling 544 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1996 - Special issue (4)
  2. US Gymnasts
  3. Event Finals (2)
  4. GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1996 to 12 Jun 1996
  5. MAG - Response to Critics
  6. sour grapes
  7. Nationals
  8. Olympic Trials Questions
  9. Thanks!!
 10. For those interested in photography. . .
 11. WAG: JACIE'S ROUTINE at US of A Nationals.
 12. US of A TV ALERT: WOMEN'S 1996 Europeans (2)
 13. It ain't "The Devil Went Down to Georgia!"
 14. Attn: Pete Abbott
 15. Gogean might miss Olympics
 16. Gogean to miss Atlanta?
 17. Romania and China news


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:43:21 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1996 - Special issue

<I think "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" needs to be playing in the background>
<during this speech.. if any of you have seen Cabaret, you will get that>
<reference, if you haven't, oh well... you miss out.>

Pretty clever.

The problem is that you seem unaware as to what it takes to produce a
champion.  I was the assistant coach with Ed Burch in 1985, when we did the
planning to achieve the impossible (according to everyone "in the know", only
the collegiate program could accomplish this), to get an Olympian out of Gold
Cup.  The beginning of our plan was the simple belief that we had 6 gymnasts
(Brad Bryan, Mike Chaplin, Ted Dimas, Trent Dimas, Lance Ringnald, and
Chainey Umphrey) who had the ability to make it big.  They were from 13 to 16
years old, very talented, but there was no way we could absolutely predict
what the future held for them.  So, we started with our belief in them, and
then created the plan to get there.  The belief itself didn't make these
gymnasts such a tremendously successful group; it was the years of hard work
and perseverence that did it.  But the plan wouldn't have been made and the
goals wouldn't have been set without the belief in the potential of a bunch
of talented kids.

For the past 10 years, Ed Burch has been one of the most successful coaches
in America.  Consistently, his teams perform way over their heads in
competition.  It happens because he has a plan, because he is willing to do
the work, and because his gymnasts, when they walk on the floor to compete,
know that he has complete faith in their ability to be great.  It may sound
like schmaltz to you, but this kind of attitude and approach is the key to
making the transition from good to greatness.

The "realists" are never satisfied with the talent they have; they are always
in search of the perfect athlete, discarding the imperfect along the way.
 They never get the job done, because all they ever see is faults, not

If, as a coach, you refuse to buy into the gymnasts dreams, you doom him to
mediocrity. The most disappointed athletes that I have ever known have not
been the ones who push for a great goal and fail to reach it; the unhappy
ones are those who wonder if they could have done more if they had reached a
little harder.


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:48:15 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: US Gymnasts

                            I will spare everyone the agony of putting
up that persons post again who was nailing the guy gymnasts as well as
Karolyi and Kim Zmeskal and Kerri Strug.

                            First: Bela is the best coach in the world.
He has produced more champions than any other. Nunno is, no doubt, a
great coach but I just can't except what you said about Karolyi not
being a "real coach". What history books have you been reading?

                            Second: I loved Zmeskals floor routine. In
case you have forgotten, she was the 92 World Champion on floor
exercise. Other gymnasts freely admitted that Kim deserved the title.
And I don't get why everyone has such a problem w/Karolyi's gymnasts
floor routines. You are supposed to express your personality on the
floor, not try and suite someone else's.

                            Third: I admit that the Men are having some
difficulty in capturing medals in international competion but for
heavens sake, give them a break. It must be hard for them. All people
ever say is how rotten they are and how hopeless they are. What kind of
encouragement is that? I happen to like Chris Waller and Scott Keswick.
Scott has always fought in competions and is a great gymnast. He stands
up for the Mens team when people slam them and that takes a lot of
courage. If we would just give them half a chance, maybe they could
find some more motivation to do well.



Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:39:46 -0600
From:    ***@MARCELINE.K12.MO.US
Subject: Event Finals

Could someone please post the results and scores of the event finals for
women at nationals?



Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 08:40:43 +0200
From:    ***@MERCUR.USAO.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1996 to 12 Jun 1996

well, i got my cataloug from endo, and unlike what the person posted
about a week ago, endo *dones not* have the moscow olympics. i even
called the company to find out why it wasnt in the book, and i was told
that the person who talked about the tape was talking about stratsburg.
oh well.
i remember several weeks ago, someone posting that they had a trading
catalog. and now i can't find the address to that person. can someone
forward me the address? oh please? as a poor college student on a grant,
that only gets access to a computer through the college, i've found endos
tapes to be a bit prohivitive. so if anyone knows the address of the
tading catalog please e-mail me/
about the mens at nationals. it was very anoying that they weren't given
the coverage that he woman are. yes, we might not be world champions any
more, but give the poor guys a break, they train hard, and they work hard
at it. my husband who hates gymnastics enjoyed the nationals. he thought
our team had class, and i agree with him. in sabe who was third after
compulseries? we where. that shows you that are men are good. and in
porto rico, several of of men qualified for finals. I wouldn't be
surprised if the usa won some kind of medal in the olympics.
i wanted to thank everyone who answered my question off line about
I have another question. HAs the North korea pulled out of womans elite
gymnastics? I know thery where doing well for a while, then just
disapered. were they suspended?


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 14:17:07 -0400
Subject: MAG - Response to Critics

Peter Vidmar asked me to post this for him:

>I simply could not read the repulsive comments slamming USA men's gymnastics
>without replying. Even if you were the finest , most knowledgeable coaches,
>athletes, and judges on the planet, you could have been more respectful to
>these athletes who have put their heart and soul into their preparation for
>the Olympics. Some of you would do better for yourselves by spending one day
>in the gym with any of these kids and you would hold your tongues (typing
>fingers) next time. It's perfectly fine to dislike someone's gymnastics, (to
>a point), but to use the kind of flippant, and at times vitriolic language
>that some of you did, shows a complete lack of respect for our sport. Shame
>on you. For those of you who stepped up to defend our guys, thank you. I know
>some of you and I know your credentials. I happen to think our gymnasts will
>do very well in Atlanta. And if the Chinese win and Belarus, and Japan beat
>our guys too, so what! I hope you people have better things to do with your
>time than to give these guys something other than honest, well-founded
>critiques of gymnastics performances, along with the dignity and respect an
>Olympic athlete deserves.
>Sincerely,  Peter Vidmar,  an old has-been who could do nothing more than win
>gold medals in a "boycotted" Olympics.

Although Peter is much too modest to say so himself, I wanted to post a
comment about that "boycotted" Olympics myself.  I just want to remind the
author of that statement that in 1984 the US men defeated the reigning World
Champions, the People's Republic of China, which had the almost identical
team, to the best of my recollection, as they had at the Worlds.  And, on
their way to the Gold, the US men set a new Olympic record for total points.
Additionally, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that
although Eastern Block nations and the Soviet Union did not send athletes,
they did send judges for gymnastics and other sports.

If anyone would like to respond to Peter, I'll be happy to forward mail to
him.  Any posts to the list concerning this will also be forwarded.



Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 11:30:18 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1996 - Special issue

Julianne McNamara is now married to Todd Zeile who is 3rd base for the
Philadelphia Phillies, and they have one son and I think his name might be
Zach or something a little different in terms of names, she does some
commentary for NCAA gymnastics and I think once for the Olympic Festival last


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 06:58:03 -0400
Subject: Re: sour grapes

Gina writes:

>In the last few days (and much too frequently the rest of the time), people
>on this list have bashed and bad-mouthed the men's team, specific men's
>National team members, Bela, Dominique M, and Geza Pozar's choreography to
>obsession.  You people are an embarrassment to a proud and difficult sport
>that has some of the most dedicated and hard-working people associated with
>it that you will find anywhere.  Since none of you have made anywhere near
>the accomplishments of these gymnasts and coaches, you are wasting our time
>reading this trash.

Okay, I knew sooner or later that despite my mild-mannered demeanor someone
instigate a rude reply from me ;)
        GET REAL!! - so - the art that we critique is not created by hard-working
                artists? The music by hard-working musicians? The books by (and
                I'm one) hard-working authors?  The movies by hard-working
                directors? Since when do you have to be able to do it in order
                to critique it? (Let's see you be President for a month) The
                coaches and choreographers are expressing their opinion of how
                things should be done by what they have the gymnasts do - and
                who are they doing it for? Are you saying that the audience
                (especially one that takes the time to write about it like we
                do) isn't entitled to make some demands? This IS a market
                economy after all. There, I feel much better now :)

        Oh - btw - the choreography DOES bite.

--- Jeff


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 11:30:19 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1996 - Special issue

Does anyone have old issues of USA Gymnastics and IG liek from '91,  '92, '93
and some '94?
It would be much appreciated I would pay for shipping.
Please E-mail me privately


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 10:09:20 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1996 - Special issue


I just wanted to say that I am really sorry for my harsh criticisms.
Actually, until watching Nationals a few days ago, I had no idea that any
such thing had happened to Scott. I admire your support, and Scott is lucky
to have a wife backing him up all the way. My intentioned were simply to
critisize the US mens team, because I guess I was really upset to see the
outcome of their performances at Nationals. I guess I let my emotions get the
best of me to say the least. Its just that I was really dissapointed and I
guess kind of angry to see Scott, Chris, Trent, Bill, ect do so poorly,
because their names have become famous and they are the ones who have worked
so hard and come so far to get where they are today. It just seems unlike
them to just let these younger new people like MacReady and Wilson just step
all over them like that. I know that the sport is unforgiving and in many
ways psychological, and like I said I let my emotions get  the best of me.
Sometimes we all forget just how difficult these elements are because the
athletes make them look so easy.

I am looking forward to going to the Olympic Trials in Boston and I wish the
US team the best of luck. I will be there cheering and supporting them 100 %.
I will bring the prozack in my pocket incase I have another emotional
outburst again ! and please, no one bring a gun to shoot me, I am too young
to die :-)



Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 13:28:53 +0100
From:    ***@ASUCLA.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Nationals

WIth Amanda's permission, I will try to be happier and more positive about
USA Gymnastics..

Nationals were great.  NBC's coverage was great.  Shannon was great.  Her
double layout on floor was so great.  Her 1st vault was great.  Her second
vault was great.  Her bars dismount was great.  Her beam was great except
for the fall.  Jaycie Phelps was great.  The profile on her was great.  Her
bars was great.  Her choreography was great.  Amanda was great.  Her bars
were great.  Her floor music was great.  I thought Moceanu's new floor was
great.  Her hair is great! Dominique Dawes was great - too bad she missed
compulsories!  But
Kelli Hill was great.  Kerri Strug was so great.  Her floor choreography is
one of the best ever.  Her double layout was great.  The men were great too.

Go USA!!!


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:46:54 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Olympic Trials Questions

Sorry if these have already been asked:

1)  Any word yet on whether either Amy Chow or Andree Pickens were able to
successfully petition to trials ?

2)  Why are the compulsory/optional weightings for the men and women
different ? (50/50 for the men and 60/40 for the women)  Is is this way in
the Olympics also or just for nationals and trials ?

Thanks !


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:56:15 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Thanks!!

Hi, I just wanted to write and tell everyone that wrote to me, regarding my
health project ("Eating Disorders in Gymnastics") Thank you. I was very happy
to know that people cared enough and write to me with tons of great advice
for my paper and great resources. I am sorry for the delay....I would have
written earlier but my computer was broken and I haven't been hooked back on
until today. I would personally like to thank each and everyone of you
individually, but since I got so much mail...I would like to tell you all at
once. So thanks again everyone for your support and help on my health
project. Thanks again.


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 16:00:37 PDT
From:    ***@TIBCO.COM
Subject: For those interested in photography. . .

FYI if you are interested in gymnastics photography, the current issues of
both "Shutterbug" and "Petersons PhotoGraphic" magazines have articles on
shooting the Olympics.  Dave Black is one of 5 photographers profiled in
"Shutterbug," and there is a color photo of Vitali Scherba on vault from
Sabae.  In "PhotoGraphic," Black and Eileen Langsley were quoted.



Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:17:55 -0600
Subject: WAG: JACIE'S ROUTINE at US of A Nationals.

What is the name of the music she used in this routine? Someone used it
at Barcelona because i heard it in the back ground in AA as the
broadcast followed Gutsu's BB routine. Anyone know who used it in


This has just been urking me for awhile.


Usual signatures and raves about Dina!


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 18:15:09 -0600
Subject: US of A TV ALERT: WOMEN'S 1996 Europeans

Please, oh man PLEASE Don't forget that the 1996 Women's Europeans
will be broadcast on ABC's WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS ****THIS**** weekend

TV Guide lists running as the headliner for the show (some mini-marathon,
who knows) so don't be surprised to see only a small amount of gymnastics.
Plus, this will be the last time we'll see Kathy and Bart, so it will be
their last chance to make Olympic predictions.



Dina, Dina, Dina (should have been European Champ, European Champ, European


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:48:07 -0500
From:    ***@UTMB.EDU
Subject: It ain't "The Devil Went Down to Georgia!"

Someone mentioned the other day that Shannon Miller uses "Gypsy Violin"
music on FX.

Does anyone know the title of the music she used in Barcelona (and after...)




Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 21:59:59 -0500
From:    ***@SCOTT.NET
Subject: Re: Event Finals

The scores are posted on the US Gymnastics homepage.


Date:    Wed, 12 Jun 1996 23:44:00 -0400
Subject: Attn: Pete Abbott

Dear Pete,

I've been trying to reply to your e-mail, but keep getting messages
bounced.  I've tried *** and
***  Please provide me with an alternate e-mail




Date:    Thu, 13 Jun 1996 00:14:44 +0000
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Gogean might miss Olympics

Per Reuters:

    BUCHAREST, June 12 (Reuter) - Double world gymnastics champion Gina Gogean
    has appendicitis and may miss the Atlanta Olympics, the Romanian news
    agency Rompres said on Wednesday.

     It quoted coach Octavian Belu as saying Gogean, world gold medallist on
     the vault and floor, had undergone surgery on Wednesday and might not
     recover in time for the Games which open on July 19. "(This) could
     seriously lower our performance at the Olympics," Belu said. Rompres said
     the team's chances could be further hit as 1992 Olympic vault and floor
     champion Lavinia Milosovici was suffering from a sprain. Milosovici and
     Gogean both helped Romania to win the European team title in Birmingham
     last month and world gold in Japan last year. They were the nation's best
     hopes for gymnastics medals in Atlanta.

# # #


Date:    Thu, 13 Jun 1996 08:37:11 PDT
From:    ***@AMDAHL.CO.ZA
Subject: Gogean to miss Atlanta?

I read today on WWW that Gogean may miss Atlanta due to apendicitis!!!!
(Maybe this is old news, but I haven't heard anything about it here) There
is also an article about the Chinese women's gymnastics team.

You can read it at:

Helen. :)


Date:    Thu, 13 Jun 1996 03:01:27 -0400
From:    ***@GENIE.COM
Subject: Romania and China news

        On Reuters news service I picked up a couple of gymnstics stories.
        In the first it quoted the Chinese coach as saying that he doesn't
think they have a good shot at the team gold. Coach Lu Shanzhen says the
team is young and inexperienced.  He is pinning his hopes on individeaul
gold medals from Mo Huilan, Li Xuan, Ji Liya, and Mao Huiling.
        The second article was from Romania.  It seems that Gina Gogean had
an appendicitis attack and had surgery on Wednesday.  They don't think she
will be recovered for the Olympics, (no kidding!)  Also, Lavinia Milosivici
is "suffering from a sprain" which could further hit Romania's chances for a
team gold.
        That sure puts a new wrinkle in the "guess the outcome" trivia games.

Kathy E.


Date:    Thu, 13 Jun 1996 05:44:26 -0400
Subject: Re: US of A TV ALERT: WOMEN'S 1996 Europeans

Jeffrey writes about this Saturday's WWOS (in part):

>TV Guide lists running as the headliner for the show (some mini-marathon,
>who knows) so don't be surprised to see only a small amount of gymnastics.
>Plus, this will be the last time we'll see Kathy and Bart, so it will be
>their last chance to make Olympic predictions.

The cynicism may be warranted this time.  The running event is the Advil
(formerly L'Eggs) Mini-Marathon (10K), considered a major competition in
NY.  This was held last Saturday, just a few days after a woman was
brutally beaten into a coma in Central Park; where the race ends.  Last
week, some man got in the way of the lead runner - and when he wouldn't get
out of the way, ABC's Marty Liquori got out of the truck (where he was
covering the race) and shoved the guy off the course.  It'll be interesting
to see how this is handled on the broadcast.



End of GYMN-L Digest - 12 Jun 1996 to 13 Jun 1996