GYMN-L Digest - 12 Jul 1996 to 13 Jul 1996

There are 11 messages totalling 457 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. IOC wildcards
  2. Overscoring.
  3. Magazine Alert
  4. Karpenko out, Knizhnik in
  5. Stuff etc.
  6. Karpenko vs. Moceanu
  7. Amanda Borden turning pro
  8. NBC Online and _International GYMNAST_
  9. "predicting poll" results - WOMEN
 10. GYMN-L Digest - 12 Jul 1996 - Special issue
 11. Amanda


Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:35:01 +0000
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Re: IOC wildcards

> >Artistic Men Individuals - Barbados, Ireland, Iceland, People's Republic of
> >Korea (North Korea), Puerto Rico
> Does it mean that Gil Su Pae will be in Atlanta?

I do not know that he is the PRK representative, but I would imagine so...



Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 18:40:07 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: Overscoring.

> are back to normal. An excellent example was the 1987 Karolyi's Cup and
> what happened to Phillips in Stutgart. Things changed alot.
        In fairness, Kristie Phillips had, I believe, at least two falls
in the compulsory competition in Stutgart, and on her optional floor
routine, she scored 9.825 on FX, which was higher than what she got at
ScAm Cup that year.  I'm not saying Phillps should have won teh 1987 ScAm
cup  (she shouldn't have; Strazheva was rooked on FX in that meet - and
for the record Kristie is one of my all time favourite gymnasts).  On the
routines in Stutgart that she did hit, she didn't score much lower than
what she got at int'l meets in the states.  I just thought this should be
pointed out.


Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 20:04:08 EDT
Subject: Magazine Alert

The July 15, edition of "People" magazine has a special section on "Olympic
Heroes Then & Now".  Three women from gymnastics, Mary Lou Retton, Nadia
Comaneci, and Olga Korbut, are featured with pictures of their families and
homes (and with Mary Lou and Olga, their children).

Other featured athletes include Zola Budd Pieterse, Dick Fosbury, Bob Beamon,
Nancy Hogshead, Greg  Louganis, Wyomia Tyus, and others.

The part on the girls starts with a double page spread (in living color) with
the three in their 'today bodies' leaping into the air smiling and looking very
happy. The title "10 Again".

Also articles on Billy Mills, Bruce Jenner, and Emil Zatopek.

And, oh yes, Kim Zmeskal with a picture (another double page) of her with her
boyfriend, Chris, both being sprayed by her sister, Melissa, with a garden hose.

Check it out!



Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:31:54 -0400
Subject: Karpenko out, Knizhnik in

     There has been a last-minute change in the Ukrainian women's team for
Atlanta. Viktoria Karpenko will not be able to compete because she injured her
leg (as far as I know it's a hamstring injury) and needs 6 weeks to recover.
Therefore, Oksana Knizhnik will now be on the Ukrainian team at the Games.
     Of course, I am VERY sad for Karpenko, but at the same time I am happy
Oksana will be able to take part in the Olympics. Since she is 19, this was her
only shot and will be a nice way for her to finish her career. I think it was
wise of the UKR coaches to make the decision they did and not put Karpenko at
risk of further injury. She is young, and could very well represent Ukraine at
the 2000 Olympics. And I'm sure she will be a key member on World Championship
teams in the next few years. It's a shame we won't see her in Atlanta, but
hopefully her time will come. Meanwhile, if Knizhnik hits on beam, she's a
potential medalist, IMO.



Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:30:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Stuff etc.

I agree that Boginskaya has been really overscored from 1990 to 1992.
However, I must applaud today's rules which have done much better
separating the top gymnasts from one another.  I think Boginskaya's
scores at Europeans reflected her ability, polish, but still lower
difficulty than most of the other competitors.  She WAS clearly one of
the best all-arounders at Europeans, where she showed the consistency
necessary in the all-around, but as shown by her finishes in the even
finals, she doesn't have any spectacular outrageous routines that score
huge scores.  I am very glad to see this; it is much more fair than in
the past.  I'm not starting a flame about Boginskaya--in fact, I am
extremely happy to see her doing so well--but I'm also happy to see the
judges treating her as they would any other gymnast.

Plus, finally, at 19 I am not vastly older than EVERY top gymnast--it's
pretty funny, but I feel old in the gymnastics world before I've reached

I'm disappointed that Amanda will not be competing for Georgia, but I
can completely undersatnd her choice.  Any elite or near-elite (or any
dedicated gymnast for that matter) gymnast and their parents knows the
financial burden years of training brings about.  Collegiate gymnastics
is rewarding but not in the financial aspect, and I'm sure Amanda is
anxious to pay back her parents for all their support while she still is
in her prime.

Just some thoughts...  :) Joy


Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:33:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Karpenko vs. Moceanu

Read Beth's last posting about the Ukrainian team taking out Karpenko
because of a leg injury.  Now substitue "Moceanu" for "Karpenko" and
"USA" for "UKR" and the similarities will be so obvious...except for the
fact that Moceanu is going to compete.  Odd, very odd...  --Joy


Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 22:03:45 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Amanda Borden turning pro

Hi everybody --
An article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution said that Amanda Borden will
not enroll in the University of Georgia, and will turn professional instead.
 It said, "This will allow Borden to be paid for her post-olympic tour and
accept endorsements."

There was a quote from the Georgia coach saying she supported her decision.

It didn't say if Amanda was giving up the whole idea of going to college, or
if she is has just decided not to go to Georgia right now.

Article is on-line at
-- Tammy


Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 22:29:24 EDT
Subject: NBC Online and _International GYMNAST_

For those of you who have yet to check it out IG has contributed national and
international outlooks for men, women and rhythmic gymnastics to NBCs Olympic
web site < or rhythmic>. Also, look
for their "chat" coverage of the U.S. Trials (the editor, photographer and
writer gave their impressions after each day of competition). During the Games
there will be a daily "behind the scenes with IG" column to keep you updated on
what's going on in the gym.

NBC also has information on gymnastics from the USAG and profiles and diaries
from various athletes, including U.S. gymnasts. The site will be continously
updated through the Olympics so check it out!

Also, you can now write to IG via e-mail at <>. Online scrips can
be submitted via credit card (please include name, address, phone number, length
of scrip. desired, cardholder's name, card number and expriration date). You can
also write letters to the editor.


Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:38:11 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: "predicting poll" results - WOMEN

Well, I think I've waited long enough, and with seven (!!!!!) days until
the Olympics start, now is a good time to post the results.  There
were 28 respondents for the women, not all of whom answered
every question completely.  If two answers were given for one category
I gave half points, but if any more than two were listed, I only counted the
first gymnast named.  I was happy to see that not too many people
confused their hopes with their honest predictions (although there
were a few responses whose predicted gymnasts were curiously similar
to their favourate gymnasts).

1.  Team  medal winners (in order).  I gave five votes for a gold medal
vote, three for a silver, and one for a bronze.

1.  Romania -  101.5  (15, 7.5, 4)
2.  China       -    72.5  (9, 6, 9.5)
3.  USA          -    66      (4, 13.5, 5.5)
4.  Russia     -    11.5  (0, 1, 8.5)
5.  Belarus    -      0.5  (0, 0, 0.5)

2.  Top ten in the All-Around (no particular order)  Reminder:  maximum
number of votes is 28.

  1.  Podkopayeva - 28
  2.  Huilan             - 27
       Milosovici       - 27
  4.  Khorkina         - 25
       Miller               - 25
  6.  Amanar           - 21
  7.  Boguinskaya  - 20
  8.  Kotchetkova    - 19
  9.  Dawes             - 18
10.  Gogean           - 16
11.  Galieva             - 8
        Moceanu          - 8
        Piskoun           - 8
14.   Mariniescu      - 7
        Strug                 - 7
16.   Xuan                 - 6
17.  Phelps              - 4
18.  Juarez               - 1
        Begue              - 1

* One person did vote for 4 americans (which we all know is impossible),
I counted them all anyway.

Results by team:        Romania - 71  (4 gymnasts)
                                       USA          - 62  (5 gymnasts)
                                        Russia    - 52  (3 gymnasts)
                                        China      - 33   (2 gymnasts)
                                        Belarus   - 28  (2 gymnasts)
                                        other        - 2 (2 gymnasts)

3.  Event finals - top three  (voted for in no particular order)


1.  Amanar              - 18.5
2.  Podkopayeva    - 16
3.  Gogean              - 12
4.  Huilan                 - 7
      Miller                   - 7
6.  Strug                    - 5
7.  Khorkina             - 4
8.  Piskoun               - 4.5
9.  Milosovici            - 3
10.  Chow                  - 1

*Uneven Bars*

  1.  Khorkina          - 24.5
  2.  Hulian              - 17
  3.  Dawes             - 12.5
  4.  Podkopayeva  - 8
  5.  Chow                - 5.5
  6.  Amanar            - 3
  7.  Phelps             - 2
  8.  Kotchetkova    - 1
       Piskoun           - 1
       Severino          - 1
        Teza                - 1
        Xuan                - 1
13.  Milosovici         - 0.5

Just a tad bit of patriotic favouritism here (but who said that wasn't
allowed).  I really don't think that Dawes, Chow, and Phelps are that good
on bars.   Not on an international level anyway  (I'm Canadian - you can
take this as an unbiased opinion).   I'd be a little hesitant to predict Dawes
to medal in any category - she always seems to crack at Worlds.   I mean,
I'd vote for Miller over any of those three.   I'm surprised that Piskoun
didn't recieve more votes - after all, she is the reigning world champion.
I saw one interview with Lieu Xuan where she was saying that she and
her coaches changed her routine so it would be valued at a ten.  Maybe,
assuming she will perform this, she should be a little higher up as well.
I've never been very impressed with Khorkina on bars either (or on any
event for that matter), but with the scores she gets, how can you not vote for
 her?  Feel free to argue with the above.

Question:  when they do those full pirouettes on top of the bar (a la Dawes
and Khorkina) aren't they supposed to stay in handstand?  They rarely
actually do that and when I think about it, it's got to be pretty tough.

*Balance Beam*

  1.  Huilan                 - 18
  2.  Kotchetkova       - 10
  3.  Marinescu           -   9.5
       Miller                    -   9.5
  5.  Podkopayeva     - 6.5
  6.  Dawes                 - 5
       Boguinskaya       - 5
  8.  Khorkina              - 3
        Moceanu             - 3
10.  Galieva                - 2
        Milosovici            - 2
12.  Borden                 - 1
        Piskun                  - 1
        Xaioxuan              - 1
        Strug                     - 1
        Teza                      - 1

This was interesting.  Beam is the only event that hasn't been, in any way
dominated by any one gymnast over the last few years (as Gogean and
Pods on floor, Khorkina on bars, Gogean and Amanar on vault).  I was
surprised that Mo got so many votes - almost double that of the second
place gymnast.  I don't think I've ever seen her get a very high score on
this event, but she certainly does have the potential to be an olympic
medalist on this event.


  1.  Podkopayeva       17.5
  2.  Gogean                   9
  3.  Miller                        7
  4.  Dawes                     6.5
  5.  Huilan                      6
  6.  Milosovici                5
  7.  Amanar                    4
  8.  Furnon                     3.5
  9.  Kotchetkova            2.5
10.  Strug                         2
        Yuanyuan                2
12.  Moceanu                  1.5
12.  Begue                      1
        Chusovitina             1
        Khorkina                  1
        Liya                            1
        Marinescu               1
17.  Phelps                     0.5

As we've seen from the last two world championships, this event can
be really wide open.

***Event final totals per gymnast***

Huilan - 48
Podkopayeva - 48
Khorkina - 32.5
Amanar - 25.5
Dawes - 24
Miller - 23.5
Gogean - 21
Kotchetkova - 13.5
Marinescu - 10.5
Milosovici - 10.5
Piskoun - 6.5
Chow - 6.5
Boguinskaya - 5

This puts an interesting twist to the results of question 1 (AA).

4.  Favourites

**a)  All-Time - of course, this all depends on who you've had the pleasure
of watching ...

1.  Nadia Comaneici     - 6
     Kim Zmeskal             - 6
3.  Boguinskaya              - 5
4.  Podkopayeva             - 3
     Korbut                          - 3
     Silivas                          - 3
     Omelianchnik            - 3

Two votes each:  Onoi, Miller, Khorkina, Turischeva,

One vote each:  Szabo, Yang Bo, E. Teza, Cocovan, M.  Huilan,
 N. Yurchenko, Strug, Dobre, E. Naimushina, T. Ungureanu, A. Borden,
O. Dudnik, T. Grosheva,  E. Murkhina, N. Frolova, J. Phelps, D. Dawes,
 Chaulavska, B. Johnson, T. Talavera, Lysenko, L. Milosovici, M. Retton

**b)  Present**

1.  Khorkina - 10
     Podkopayeva - 10
3.  Huilan - 7
4.  Boguinskaya - 6
5.  Miller - 4
      Dawes - 4
        Borden - 4
8.  Kotchekova - 3
9.  Strug - 2
      Onodi - 2
      Tousek - 2
         Moceanu - 2
13.  One vote each:  Teza, Chusovitina, Begue, Thompson, Xuan, Juavez,
Fei, Phelps.

Thanks for your votes!!!


Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 21:41:45 -0700
From:    ***@SONIC.NET
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 12 Jul 1996 - Special issue

>*sighs* Is there a single member of the media who is not hoping
>on the "Little Girls" bandwagon?

>This article is ridiculous (and had better well have been a column,
>because if it was a story, it was preetty darned well opinionated).
>Moceanu isn't even the only gymnast; Mary Beth Arnold completed
>trials with most likely the same injury!)  Track, Diving, Figure
>Skating...all these sports commonly have athletes who have problems.

So, I guess that makes it okay?


Date:    Fri, 12 Jul 1996 23:19:39 -0700
From:    ***@EFN.ORG
Subject: Re: Amanda

> I'm disappointed that Amanda will not be competing for Georgia, but I
> can completely undersatnd her choice.  Any elite or near-elite (or any
> dedicated gymnast for that matter) gymnast and their parents knows the
> financial burden years of training brings about.  Collegiate gymnastics
> is rewarding but not in the financial aspect, and I'm sure Amanda is
> anxious to pay back her parents for all their support while she still is
> in her prime.

Just wondering, but a full ride college scholarship is a pretty hefty sum
of money, in theory.  How much can a gymnast make by turning pro?  Enough to
pay for the equivalent of a full ride?  More?

I was fairly surprised back in 92 when Wendy Bruce gave up a college
scholarship to go on the post-Olympic tour and make something like
$3,000.  I have to guess her scholarship, although not tangible money,
was worth at least $12,000/year, depending on the school.  It made no
sense to me why she would make that choice.  Am I wrong about the earning
potential of Olympic team members?  Can they really make this much a year
or more?  It seemed to me that in Shannon Miller's book it noted that she
was saving all her appearance and prize money in the hopes it would pay for
college.  This is a pretty smart move if you ask me, college is more
expense than it looks, which is why athletic scholarships are so attractive.

In fairness, I suppose you have to consider the possibility that you
could get injured your first year in college, never be able to compete
again and lose your scholarship.  In this case, you would have lost out
by turning down pro opportunities.

So, would those of you more informed than I please write and share what
you know?




End of GYMN-L Digest - 12 Jul 1996 to 13 Jul 1996