GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1996 - Special issue

There are 22 messages totalling 607 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Answers to some nationals questions
  2. old mail messages
  3. HOPELESS! (was Karoli Choreography) (3)
  4. Choreography in general.
  5. IG's NCAA coverage/mistakes
  6. Re-Intro
  7. What happened to...
  8. Sorry!  Oops!
  9. Mens Team
 10. Trail ?
 11. Gymnastics on WWW
 12. Karolyi choreography
 13. M/W Post-US natls prognosis
 14. Media coverage of gymnastics
 15. Poszar choreography
 16. I will be glad to make copies of the Nationals!
 17. We need national tape too!
 18. Copies of the nationals
 19. Nationals Tape?
 20. Katie Teft


Date:    Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:53:48 +0000
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Answers to some nationals questions

-- re Roethlisberger's changed parallel bar score.  The judges missed a
requirement in his routine (according to J.R.) and so deducted for that.
After the routine was re-examined, it was evaluated to have met all the
requirements and thus the score was changed from a 9.15 to a 9.55.  Someone
asked what difference it would have made in his placing... well, not any
difference in the ranking of the all-around (John and Blaine Wilson were
points ahead of everyone else), but it probably would have made a difference
in his qualifying to pbar finals.  More importantly though, if you performed
all the requirements and then didn't get credit for it, I think you'd
petition for a higher score too!

-- re score carryovers.  Each program (men's, women's, rhythmic) decides
their own Olympic selection rules.  The men decided that they wanted their
team to be picked over the course of 24 routines.  The women decided that
they wanted to eliminate as much confusion as possible regarding the
selection and thus it's just 100% of the Trials score.  In 1992, Kim Zmeskal
won both the Trials and the Nationals, but when her score was weighted 60/40
Trials/Natls, she ranked second to Shannon Miller, who's score was 100%
Trials because she wasn't able to compete all of Nationals.  (The reason is
because Nationals was a lower scoring competition, and so this pulled down
Zmeskal's overall score.  At Trials alone, her score *barely* outranked
Miller's, by something very small, I believe less than one tenth of a
point.)  The women's program wanted to avoid that situation this year.

--Re Miller choosing the vault she wanted to do... that type of decision is
purely strategic and almost always viewed as the coach's responsibility. It's
not a question of "why can't Miller choose what she wants to do;" her job
as the gymnast is to execute the routine and Nunno's job as the coach is to
construct the competition strategy and advise and prepare his gymnasts for
each rotation.  It's the coach's job to know the rules and the scores and to
advise the gymnast as to what elements he or she needs to put into the
routine or take out for the best all-around result.  Nunno wanted Shannon to
get a good score on vault, but she had never competed the 1.5 before.  Thus,
he advised her to do the Yurchenko-1/2 and get the good score, then try the
Y-1.5.  If the Y-1/2 didn't go so well, she would have done that again in
hopes of getting a good solid score, versus trying the new, untested vault.



Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 13:26:37 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: old mail messages

When you get a couople hundred mail messages a day, you dont get to
read everything.  I shuffled a bunch of gymn posts into a directory
and they been sitting there since.  I had time so I read them.
(My netcom bill is over $600 again....)
Thats how Im replying to a post from 95.Dec.1

Someone posted about a Tank Macnamara cartoon.

Alas Tank hasnt appeared in any papers I see out here in a lond time.

Tank is a character lampooning all the washed up jocks who become sports casters
and one of the running gags is Tanks habit of doing "spoonerisms" on camera.
"Norts spews" being one hes famous for.  Tank always gets embarassed when gangs
of kids all want ot hear him say it.
Tank is a nice guy, just a bumbling klutz who played football too many years
for his own good.  Someone starts to drop something, and Tank instictively
screams "FUMBLE" and makes a mad dash to catch the thing.
Quite embarassing at a black tie cocktail party and the thing dropped is just
a napkin, even more embarassing the damage caused by Tank as he makes the dive.

Dont feel singled out by that cartoon
(Foreign coach telling parents to sign a contract to keep a girl from hitting
puberty before 18)  The strip skewers every thing in sports.
They skewer athletes, coaches, sportscasters, sports marketing.
NOTHING is sacred !

Truly my fave was when they went after baseball base stealing.

A team manager is explaining to Tank how the Houston Astros are going to prevent
the oposing team from stealing any bases;

This southern trooper type cop comes out on the field.

"Boy! You in a heap a trouble!  You are in po-session of one canvas bag
belonging to the Houston Astros Baseball team."

"But Officer !  Im PAID to steal bases!"

"Organ-ahzed craaaahm ?  Heah ? In Houston ?"

They actually milked that thread for a whole week, and i near peed my pants
everyday I read it.

Damn I miss that comic strip...

You should be honored that they chose to tease gymnastics.
Just as the regular coaches who DO think that way should be taken out and



Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:17:24 +0100
From:    ***@ASUCLA.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Re: HOPELESS! (was Karoli Choreography)

> but still they should think of us at home, we dont want to watch
> front layouts and fulls that we can already do ourselves.

>I will pass the word-- I am sure they will be more than happy to change
> routines
>for your viewing pleasure.

That would be cool.. thanks... And could you step on it please, theres not
much time will Atlanta.


Should read "time till Atlanta."



Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 14:31:31 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: HOPELESS! (was Karoli Choreography)

>> Here is a little Olympic History, John:  In Barcelona, 1992, Trent Dimas
>> "blew it" by winning a the only Gold Medal that Vitaly Scherbo didn't take.
>>  Wow!  You're right, he blew it!!!
> Didnt Li Xiaoshuang win floor? my haste to make a point about Trent blowing it, I missed that.


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:35:34 -0600
Subject: Choreography in general.

I know that there are many different styles and types of music, but I really
believe that regardless of what a choreographer does, it is all up to the
gymnast and some gymnasts can't pull off 'slow dnace', some can't do the
'cutsey' stuff, and some can't do ANYTHING. So, you can bash a choreographer,
but it is often the gymnast's fault.

One situation that I remember was Nadia's Strasbourg FX. Alot of people did
not like it, but it stood out because it was so strange and different.
Cathy Rigby called it 'waste of energy - not dance, just movement'. I thought
it was refressingly different. Too each there own. (And, I think Nadia did
a good job with it, too!)


Dina, Dina, Dina.


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:42:18 CDT
From:    ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: IG's NCAA coverage/mistakes

I have to say it this time.  There have been too many mistakes made
by IG in the coverage of the women's NCAA's.  For the last several
years I have counted numerous mistakes on captioning the wrong name with the
wrong picture, the wrong gymnast with the wrong team, misspelled
names, etc....  I know this might appear to be picky but there have
been just too many.

Just got my IG today.  Well, Stephanie Woods certainly does not attend the
University of Georgia and I'm pretty sure the picture of "Jennifer Wood" is not
Jennifer Wood, it looks nothing like her.(Reminds me of the picture
of Kelly Macy of UGA a couple of years ago saying it was Lori Strong)

Sorry, but I would hate to credit an NCAA Bars Champion to another

Come on IG.  Proof read it a little more.




Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:08:10 -0500
Subject: Re-Intro

Just wanted to introduce/re-introduce myself to
everyone on the list.  I have been off and on
the list (net access permitting) since it was

Despite what the name field says, my name
is now Lori as I was married on
May 18.  I am currently interning with
Intel in Portland, OR but will be attending
Stanford in the fall to pursue a Master's
in Electrical Engineering.  I received
my Bachelor's degree from Purdue University
in December of 1995.

I competed as a Class IV gymnast for a year
back in high school and then coached for
our YMCA team for a year.  I didn't have
the time to keep up my gymnastics at
Purdue but I was able to do some tumbling
during a few of my co-op sessions in Houston.
While there I also had the opportunity to
visit Karolyi's and Cypress with Rachele
as well as attend one of the Elite regional
meets a few years back.  (Hi Rachele -
been a while...)



Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 23:43:49 +0200
From:    ***@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT
Subject: What happened to...

Dear Gymners:

Does anyone know what happened to Tracee Talavera, Julianne McNamara and
Gina Stallone?

Isabel F.
With greetings from Porto - Portugal

P.S. Who is the other Portuguese on the list? E-Mail privately.


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:40:31 -0400
From:    ***@ISMI.NET
Subject: Sorry!  Oops!


I am so sorry all, I completely forgot to change the subject in my letter.
It was in response to John's letter critizing Bela Karoli and the
men's U.S. program.  Sorry again.

At 03:41 PM 6/11/96 -0700, you wrote:

Who were you responding to there???

*** wrote:


Well, I just got up and decided to write.  You didn't write yesterday and I
was wondering why, but now that i've read your comments to gymn-l I
understand, your foot was in your mouth and you couldn't reach the keyboard!
In case you didn't know, Mihai and Waller's Wife are on the list, as is
Keswicks! Ouch!


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 16:02:11 -0700
From:    ***@UCLA.EDU
Subject: Mens Team

I just started subcribing to this service, I must admit that I was
disappointed with everyones reactions to the mens team.  I myself am a
member of UCLA's club gymnastics team and can't believe the way some people
are talking about our US guys.  I am busy studying for finals and just
couldn't help but write a letter.

First of all, Scott Keswick DOES NOT always to fail at big competitions.
If so then why has he excelled at gymnastics for such a long time.  For
those who feel that he is a failure, you should look at all of his meet
records and accomplishments at USA Gymnastics homepage.  He had a
devastating back injury and came back strong, which not many people could
have done.  He deserves alot of respect!

Chris Waller too has had ankle injuries that still greatly affect him.  And
people are saying that he blew his chance in 92.  Just making the Olympic
team is an accomplishment in itself so don't be so harsh.  And his age
being 30 shows nothing except for the fact that he works that much harder!

Look at Trent Dimas, the guy won gold in Barcelona!  You and the rest of
America praised him then but yet you are so quick to shoot him down now.
The saying, "everybody loves a winner" sounds like it really applies

No one every seems to give Chainey the respect he deserves as well.  The
guy has been a great ambassador for a mens gymnastics program that is going
down the tubes everywhere.  Not just collegiate(NCAA), but club as well.
Chainey's strength series on rings, p-bar work, and highbar release
sequence should be enough to convice anyone.

I think that the US Mens team deserves much more credit than they are
getting.  I think that we should try to look at the good things and use
criticism as a way to HELP not just for the sake of criticizing.

I realize that I am subject to being bias since I know some of them, but
that is because I see how much work they put into the gym.  Mr. John
Sullivan, please respond to my comments and try to explain why you feel the
way that you do.  Thanks!


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 19:45:28 -0400
From:    ***@ISMI.NET
Subject: Trail ?


I have been looking on the USA Gymnastics Home Page and I am now so
confused.  Does anyone know what time gymnastics trials will be on?  And
what is on at what time?  They are so vague in their comments.


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:27:25 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Gymnastics on WWW

As I am always disappointed in my local newspaper's coverage of
gymnastics, I decided to do some searching on the world wide web.  I
found an Edmond, Oklahoma newspaper on-line at:

I did a search on "gymnastics" and found two articles, one on Shannon
Miller and one on Soni Meduna, that were published just prior to the US
Nationals.  There was also another article on Shannon from the June 9
issue.  Hopefully they will have more articles as the trip to Atlanta

Happy reading,

Kerri :)


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:34:20 -0400
Subject: Karolyi choreography

     I, too, am not a fan of Karolyi choreography. Never have been - even back
to the days of Nadia Comaneci. Her 1978 floor routine was absolutely
embarrassing to watch, and she herself admitted in print that she felt stupid
performing all those wiggly cutsie moves when she was 16-years-old and had the
body of a grown woman, not an 8-year-old. Routines choreographed by Geza Poszar
belong in exhibitions and shows, NOT in competitions - at least in my opinion
(and remember, it's only my opinion). I can see how they can be entertaining,
but they are not artistic, and the name of the sport is ARTISTIC gymnastics,
after all. The only Karolyi girl whose floor routines I was ever able to enjoy
at all was Chelle Stack, and I think she herself did a lot of the choreography,
so maybe that's why! So I couldn't help but notice that Kerri Strug is using a
different mix of Chelle's 1988 floor music and, in some places, she does the
SAME moves Chelle did! Trouble is, what worked with Chelle and her exuberant
personality does not work with the shy and serious Strug. It looks forced and
mechanical and it basically made me cringe. I am NOT blaming the girls. I
"blame" Poszar and Karolyi. I think it would be nice if once, just once, they'd
come up with a routine that does not borrow (or outright steal) moves and music
from the routines of past Karolyi girls and, at the same time, actually manages
to fit the personality of the gymnast. They sometimes succeed in the latter
(though with Kerri they never have, IMO; I thought the routine that suited her
best was the one she used while at Colorado Aerials), but NEVER have they
accomplished all three.
     On a Moceanu note, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't she capable of doing
a double layout on floor? I thought I saw her doing them in exhibitions in
1995, but I could be remembering wrong.



Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:25:59 -0400
Subject: Re: M/W Post-US natls prognosis

I think that Amanda sold her floor exercise.  I think that a medal is
within our grasp.  If we can just clean up the landings and a little
form, and put smiles on the athletes face, we can contend for silver,
possibly gold.  If the romanians slip, the us and china will be right there.
BTW I got my IG for june/july, and I absolutely love Lilia.  She came to
a meet and piskun, her good friend had the same music on floor.  Knowing
how tough it is to get new choreography in belorus, she said she would
change her routine so yelena could keep it.  I think that is the true
spirit of the games.


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:00:28 -0400
From:    ***@INETNOW.NET
Subject: Media coverage of gymnastics

Ok, for you folks who missed what I was talking about in a recent post-

1. During the 1995 Superbowl, NBC placed one camera to be filming Deion
Sanders the whole time he was in Sun Devil stadium. They were waiting for
Deion Sanders to "show out" at the game. They want some good clips of him
dancing and clowning on field. They were disappointed.

2. NBC has ALREADY stated the one gymnast will be a big part of their
olympic games coverage. NO, I WILL NOT SAY IT. You know who I am talking about.

3. This same person will be given the "Deion Sanders treatment" at the
Georgia Dome, come July. Everything short of going to the stall with her
(you knew it wasn't a man) in the restroom will be taped. Who knows, they
may even do that, the way the media is going nowadays. (Just kidding)

4. As for reliable sources, I would never consider some info from anybody
off AOL, a reliable source. Our friend, Esther, gets her info from there. I
don't. The gym board on AOL is trash. I know from personal experience and
investigation, that anybody who claims to know somebody, be somebody, etc,
is a lying maggot. Some scribbling on a chalkboard (the AOL gym board)
doesn't influence me. Most of these posts come from 13 year old punks anyway.

5. Our other dear friend Beth, just loves the AJC, that's all. I have been
reading that paper for a long, long, long, long, time. Still do. I was
working for that paper when this girl was in diapers (Ok, I am
exaggerating). I still have a sub to the paper. I was simply saying that
most of gymnastics is not adequately covered, in my opinion, in comparison,
to other sports. Stories and profiles on Dominique Moceanu do not qualify.

Oh, and one more thing, let Eric live!!!! LET ERIC LIVE!!!!!! He didn't know
what he was saying, he couldn't help himself!!! He didn't know, he didn't
know!!!! I am just joking. When I saw that post he made about the U.S. men's
team, I knew his butt was mud. I know some of you out there are mad at him,
but save some bones. When I saw the 3 gymn digests on my e-mail, I said to
myself, "Ok, what did somebody say?".


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:05:08 +0000
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Poszar choreography

Just a side note, it surprised me to learn at Championships that Poszar does
Cincinnati Gym. choreography, including Jaycie Phelps' motorcycle routine.
In the press conference, Mary Lee Tracy described being in Argentina and
calling home only to find out that Jaycie's new floor music started with a
motorcycle. She said that actually the music fit Jaycie very well, because
while she may be calm and/or shy on the surface, "underneath" she's really
kind of "ferocious."

Btw, Sportspeople of the Year awards, which are voted on by their peers:

Women's Program
Sportswoman of the Year ... Jaycie Phelps
Coach of the Year... Mary Lee Tracy

Men's Program
Sportsman of the Year... John Roethlisberger and Blaine Wilson
Coach of the Year... Peter Kormann



Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 20:33:49 -0600
From:    ***@SUPERNET.AB.CA
Subject: Re: HOPELESS! (was Karoli Choreography)

>Here is a little Olympic History, John:  In Barcelona, 1992, Trent Dimas
> it" by
>winning a the only Gold Medal that Vitaly Scherbo didn't take.  Wow!  You're
> right, he
>blew it!!!
>Didnt Li Xiaoshuang win floor?
Vataly won 6 Gold Medals.

All round
P Horse

There are the 6 medals, and yes Li won floor, Trent won High Bar,



Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:23:06 -0500
From:    ***@SCOTT.NET
Subject: I will be glad to make copies of the Nationals!

At 01:44 PM 6/9/96 -0600, Isaac Wong wrote:
>I missed the televised gymnastics meet yestersay (Sat.) because I
>attended a gradustion commencement of some friends and forgot to
>record it.  Can someone please make a copy of the tape for me and
>I'll pay for the tape and s/h cost.  Thank you.

Like I have told others......If you mail me a tape and your return address I
will be glad to make you a copy.

                                If anyone else is interested just let me know:



Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:24:04 -0500
From:    ***@SCOTT.NET
Subject: Re: We need national tape too!

I'll be glad to just send the tape and your return address to me.


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:29:49 -0500
From:    ***@SCOTT.NET
Subject: Re: Copies of the nationals

I would be glad to just follow the others.. send a tape and return address
to me.


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 22:33:07 -0500
From:    ***@SCOTT.NET
Subject: Re: Nationals Tape?

just send the tape and a return address. I'll be glad to make a copy


Date:    Tue, 11 Jun 1996 23:37:35 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Katie Teft

Does anyone know when and why Katie Teft switched clubs from Great Lakes to
Twistars?  And where is Twistars?



End of GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1996 - Special issue