GYMN-L Digest - 9 Jun 1996 to 10 Jun 1996 - Special issue

There are 21 messages totalling 654 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. We need national tape too!
  2. Day Four at Nationals
  3. Kip Simons (2)
  4. What happened to Roth?
  5. Pictures from 96 Worlds in San Juan
  6. NBC coverage of men's nationals - long
  7. coaches
  8. Trent Dimas
  9. Nationals Field (2)
 10. "go baby"
 11. NBC's insults
 12. 'TEEN Article
 13. GYMN-L Digest - 9 Jun 1996 - Special issue
 14. Interesting stats....
 15. Nationals
 16. Nationals-What else?
 17. Nationals--falls
 18. My 2-bits
 19. MORE nationals comments...


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:31:42 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: We need national tape too!


It was a beautiful day here on Saturday, up until about 4 minutes before the
broadcast. A major electrical storm hit, the electricity came and went, and
we lost cable altogether.  So, like so many others, we are looking for a tape
of nationals, and would be happy to pay for copying, shipping, etc. or to
trade a tape if there's something you need.

Thanks kind gymners!!



Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 15:33:12 +0000
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Day Four at Nationals

Event Finals

Floor Exercise

    1 Jay Thornton           Iowa             9.737
    2 Josh Stein             Stanford         9.612
    3 Steve McCain           UCLA             9.600
    4 John Macready          USOTC            9.562
    5 Casey Bryan            Oklahoma         9.525
    6 John Roethlisberger    Minnesota        9.375

Pommel Horse

    1 Josh Stein             Stanford           9.712
    2 Blaine Wilson          Ohio State         9.600
    3 John Roethlisberger    Minnesota          9.050
    4 Mike Racanelli         Bart Conner        8.725
    5 Jair Lynch             Stanford           8.625
    6 Keith Wiley            Stanford           8.475


    1 Kip Simons         Ohio State        9.637
    2 John Macready      USOTC             9.500
    3 Garry Denk         Iowa              9.475
    4 Chris Waller       UCLA              9.425
    5 Mike Moran         Daggett's         9.350
    6 Chainey Umphrey    UCLA              9.250


    1 Blaine Wilson       Ohio State         9.537
    2 Jay Thornton        Iowa               9.525
    3 John Macready       USOTC              9.462
    4 David St. Pierre    Broadway           9.368
    5 Steve McCain        UCLA               9.225
    6 Mike Racanelli      Bart Conner        8.912

Parallel Bars

    1 Jair Lynch             Stanford          9.762
    2 Kip Simons             Ohio State        9.675
    3 Blaine Wilson          Ohio State        9.612
    4 Jason Christie         Nebraska          9.375
    5 Casey Bryan            Oklahoma          9.350
    6 John Roethlisberger    Minnesota         8.875

High Bar

    1 Bill Roth              Temple                      9.687
    2 Aaron Cotter           Iowa                        9.662
    3 John Macready          USOTC                       9.637
    4 John Roethlisberger    Minnesota                   9.500
    5 Trent Dimas            USA Gymnastics World        9.075
    6 Chris Waller           UCLA                        8.275


    1 Dominique Dawes    Hills                   9.800
    2 Kerri Strug        Karolyi's               9.793
    3 Kristy Powell      Colorado Aerials        9.756
    4 Mohini Bhardwaj    Brown's                 9.681
    5 Monica Flammer     Cypress                 9.493

Uneven Bars

    1 Dominique Dawes     Hills           9.912
    2 Katie Teft          Twistars        9.825
    3 Monica Flammer      Cypress         9.787
    4 Mohini Bhardwaj     Brown's         9.725
    5 Mary Beth Arnold    Flips           9.137
    6 Jennie Thompson     Dynamo          9.100

Balance Beam

    1 Dominique Dawes    Hills                  9.862
    2 Mohini Bhardwaj    Brown's                9.650
    3 Katie Teft         Twistars               9.637
    4 Monica Flammer     Cypress                9.625
    5 Shannon Bowles     Atlantic Gym TC        9.462
    6 Jennie Thompson    Dynamo                 9.150

Floor Exercise

    1 Dominique Dawes    Hills            9.900
    2 Kerri Strug        Karolyi's        9.862
    3 Jennie Thompson    Dynamo           9.775
    4 Kristen Maloney    Parkettes        9.687
    5 Mohini Bhardwaj    Brown's          9.662
    5 Katie Teft         Twistars         9.662
# # #


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 13:55:23 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Kip Simons

> On a brighter note, I thought it was pretty cool to show the wives of
> some of the competitors (some of which I believe are on this list).

Cindy Waller, Michelle Keswick, and Kris Bagiu are here...and it is very hard to
concentrate on the fate of your husband when there is a camera man perched on
 the chair
in front of you. ;)

> Does anyone know what happened to his arms?  In the background you could hear
>saying that he couldn't feel them.....

I don't think they went numb, I think he was referring to the "feel" of the
Bill plans on training for the 1997 Winter Cup.  It might've been the end of the
for Atlanta for a lot of the guys, but it is by no means the end!


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:21:14 -0400
Subject: Re: What happened to Roth?

Bill Roth didn't make it to
>trials, does anyone know what happened to him on pommel horse?  T
Well, I saw that Kris did respond in some to what happened to Bill, but
since I sat and watched him intensely ...

First he landed on his butt on his vault.

Second on Pommel Horse - It looked like he was ready to do his step down,
and his hand came off the leather and he came off - he went over to
re-chalk, I could see that the chalk was flying, he was shaking and
remounted before he was calm, he came off a second time - when he remounted
he was near his dismount, he did not travel to the end of the horse (-.4)
and when he did his dismount he had a full (-.1) on form (plus it was an A
dismount.  So, he got a 7.75, had he gotten an 8.05 he would have made trials.

He is in finals - High Bar and probably P's.  It looks like he will not be
doing floor as his knee is bothering him.

Also, does anyone know why Richard Grace didn't compete
Richard Grace had more braces on his legs than should be allowed in a meet -
he had a broken tibia, and lots of other smaller problems.  He actually, did
pretty well considering his injuries, but with getting the "0" on vault (he
did a straddle) he and his folks just decided that there was no way he could
make it and it was not worth the risk of injury.



Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:23:48 EDT
Subject: Pictures from 96 Worlds in San Juan

Hello to all,

I thought I would just throw this out to everyone and see if there is any
response. I was able to take some really nice photos of the athletes (both in
competition and on the beach of San Juan) during the Worlds in April. A number
of people, including some who are subscribers to this list, have purchased some
of these pictures already and can attest to their quality. Unfortunately I do
not have the hardware and software to transfer these images to a web-page for

Competition shots include Dawes, Phelps, Teza, Ivankov, Nemov, Scherbo. Beach
shots include Elena Piskun and Alena Groshevna, Wecker, Chechi, Sharipov, etc.
These are posed pictures, not just shots taken randomly.

If you are interested in buying copies of these pictures, please e-mail me
privately so I can give you more information.

PS, If there is anyone who can help me load some samples to a web-page for
browsing, let me know!



Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:28:10 EDT
Subject: NBC coverage of men's nationals - long

Hello to all,

Just watched most of the Men's Nationals on NBC (interrupted by a phone call
half way through) and thought I would try to be first to post some comments!

The coverage was pretty good although Tim Daggett made some interesting useless
comments. In talking about Mihai Bagiu's pommel horse routine he said, "when
he's bad, he is also bad." (Maybe it actually was saying "oh so bad" but I think
"also" is what he said. Another comment about Mihai was "professional amateur
athlete." I think I understood what Tim meant by this (he gets paid, but it is
out of a training fund), but it still sounded funny. Then, during Bill Roth's
pommels routine he stated this memorable catch phrase: "so huge, so bad, so
big." What the heck does that mean?

And what did happen to Bill on pommels? John asked if Tim thought it was nerves,
but Tim did not answer. I know it would have been painful to be asking Bill what
happened that he fell off twice and missed his dismount, but that was really
bizarre to see him totally lose his concentration like that!

Blaine Wilson is awesome!! I would have enjoyed just seeing his routines for an
hour (and maybe a little of Jair Lynch on p-bars and Jay Thornton on floor and
vault. I don't think either was shown at all, however) And Blaine is the king of
spitting apparently! Just about every shot of Blaine during the NBC broadcast
showed him spitting in his hands or in the chalk bucket. I understand why he is
spitting, but it was funny that NBC showed him spitting so much! Perhaps they
were trying to convey his character (a serious, no messing around kind of guy).

I do wish Tim D. would identify more of the elements in the routines!! I am a
novice to this sport and do not always know, or am not completely sure,  what
elements are being performed. For example, what exactly was Blaine's first pass
on floor? I think it was punch front, layout, layout, layout with a full twist.
But the only explanation I heard was that we would be seeing a lot of front
tumbling on floor. And, during John Macready's p-bar routine he did something
that looked like a kip on the rings. Was he doing a kip or was it supposed to be
something else?  I wish Tim would have said something other than "he doesn't
have the upper-body strength. . . ."

The lack of explanation of the elements was true for the women's competition as
well. About the only "move"  identified in the two hour broadcast were those big
steps on the landings (ha ha).

I'm a little baffled as to why Tim keeps saying that pommels is Mihai's best
event. Unfortunately, almost every time I have seen Mihai compete on pommels, he
falls off. Has he won Nationals on this event? I don't know. Perhaps Tim means
that Mihai has the best elements and combinations in his pommel horse routine -
Just like Steve McCain on hi-bar: he has a great routine but he usually ends up
falling off one or more times during it. (I'm not trying to knock Mihai or
Steve, I'm just trying to figure out some of Tim Daggett's comments.)

And it was nice to see the shots of Kris Bagiu and child. (I'm sorry, Kris, I'm
sure you have mentioned the name of your child before, but I cannot recall it.)
Nice seeing Michelle Keswick, too.

Finally, one last comment, the commercial with the girls listening to Amy Chow's
uneven bar routine on the radio is so unintentionally hilarious. I mean,
gymnastics on the radio?! That is like having pantomime on the radio: "and now
Marcel Marceau walks against the wind. . . very nice." I think most everyone
would agree, gymnastics has to be seen, not just heard.



Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 17:55:38 -0400
Subject: coaches

I agree with megan about nunno and his oh baby comments.  I have alot of
negative feelings towards him and karolyi.  Dominque knew she did a bad
routine.  Karolyi knows he is miked.  Does he have to be so obnoxious?  I
feel that he is responsible for moceanu obvious lack of concentration.
They said that all media requests go through him, well then he should
have done abetter job shielding her from them.
As far as the other coaches go, kelli hill was very quiet.
Mary lee tracy and the forsters ermain my favorite coaches.  I feel
gymnasts need emotional support, and these coaches give it.
Just my opinion


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:00:33 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Trent Dimas

At the end of the men's AA, there was a short clip of Trent Dimas mouthing
(in slow motion) " It's over ".  What?  I didn't even know he was at trials.
 Can anyone tell me what happened?



Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:04:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Kip Simons

Hi Michele, and Kris
I understand that you probably hate having the camera in your face, but
for us it was wonderful to see you guys.  You are both amazing for the
support and love you extend to your husbands(YOU TOO Cindy).  I admire
you three trmendously, and hopefully you will be seeing each other in atlanta


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:06:56 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Nationals Field

        Does anyone know why the women's field at USAs was so small this
year?  Only 23 women?  Isn't usually over 30 who compete?  There were
noticable absentees, including Heather Brink, Kellee Davis, Rachel
Rochelli, Kara Fry.  Did these gymnasts not qualify and have some of them
retired?  Does anyone know if Pickens plans to petition to trials and
will her alternate status from Sabae (albeit after a few injuries) be
grounds for a petition?  One final question: will there be a travelling
alternate for these games?  Usually the 8th gymnast doesn't go, but now
that there are 7 who actually compete the 8th is first alternate, not
second so I'm wondering if the 8th will get to travel this time.
        Oh one more thing.  Re: Mihai Bagiu and pommel horse.  He was a
finallist on this event in Sabae (he placed fifth) and I recall that IG
said his start value was only 9.8 (I think a 10.0 SV may have given him a
medal; I don't recall the scores).  So from that standpoint it is
definitely his best event.


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 18:13:02 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: "go baby"

Yes, I was also bothered by the "go baby" comments from Nunno.  I think
Jaycie Phelps' coach said "come on buddy!" which was a lot more appropriate!



Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 16:00:12 +0000
From:    ***@IGC.APC.ORG
Subject: NBC's insults

[Ignore this if you don't feel like hearing about media]

The way NBC miked the coaches during the broadcast of the women's
nationals was more than just annoying -- I found it insulting as
well.  I can't recall any other sports broadcast that has placed so much
emphasis on the coach *during* the athlete's performance. The French Open
was on TV just before the men's finals today, but would it have occurred
to anyone to mike Steffi and Arantxa's coaches rather than allow the focus
to remain on the athletes themselves?  Likewise, I don't remember
hearing coaches replace athletes as the center of attention during
diving, ice skating, those sports, we understand that,
at the critical moment, the only person who matters is the athlete
him or herself.  If the same respect for the athlete applied to women's
gymnastics, then we might expect to see, as we have in the past,
pre-routine pep talks by the coach and post-routine reaction
shots (ad nauseum) and interviews,  but some understanding that the
1 min and 30 seconds on the beam or bars is about the athlete and
what she can do--NOT about her coach and how loud he can yell.

So why just women's gymnastics?  I can attribute it only to a lack of
respect for these people as athletes because they are young women.
And not even so young--Shannon, Dominique, Amanda and Kerri
are old enough to be  Marines or mothers.  But because they are
young women, they are not portrayed as gutsy, fear-conquering,
tough athletes...but rather as "good girls."  Good girls who do what
the coaches say, even if we are the only ones who hear that coach.

And the sport is *artistic* gymnastics: ideally, a gymnast creates a
mood, or shows her style, or communicates something in her short
time--a process that is interrupted completely by seeing only what the
coach sees rather than experiencing what the gymnast has to offer.
Shannon's floor routine was probably lovely--a mature expression from
someone who communicates more on the FX than before a mike.
Yet who could get drawn into the piece, could hear what Shannon
might have wanted to say, with Steve bellowing "COME ON BABY!"
over lyrical dance parts?

If it's meant for "spice"--we don't need it like this.  The women's  AA
will be one of the most popular broadcasts  of the Games--advertisers
will be happy, public will be happy, Steve Nunno will be SURE to yell
a lot for cameras (and the judges he is conveniently near) after each routine.
Nothing will be lost by giving the athletes the respect they have earned.

Umm, sorry for going on so long, folks....

--Mary Lynne


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 20:13:01 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: 'TEEN Article

     In the July issue of 'TEEN magazine, there's an article on (guess who!)
Dominique Moceanu.  It's in a collection of articles called "Golden Girls and
Guys: Who's who at the Olympic Games."  It talks about her training, school,
free time, parents, and of course, the Nadia and Mary Lou comparisons.  There
are also articles on softball, judo, basketball, volleyball, soccer, boxing,
and swimming.
                                           Dawn :)


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 19:33:20 -0500
From:    ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 9 Jun 1996 - Special issue

I was off the list for a few days until I could get home and I almost
forgot my big news!  I was in O'Hare and all of a sudden this woman
sitting behind me jumps up and asks this lady walking by if she can shake
her hand.  Turns out it's Geraldine Feraro (sp?).  The people sitting
across from me started  making fun of her when she got on her cellular
phone to call someone.  All of a sudden the guy who had been making fun
of her starts shouting to her saying "Hey ... Bart and Nadia just walked
by."  I turned to see a blond man and a dark haired woman walk by.  It
was indeed them.  Well this lady took off once again this time with her
camera.  Turns out she's a reporter for an NBC affiliate.  As a reporter
I would expect her to be a little more professional!  Anyway say Bart and


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 22:39:53 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Interesting stats....

As many of you may know from "The Book",  Joan Ryan brought to our attention
to the fact that in 1976, the average American female gymnast olympian was 17
1/2 yrs old, 5'3 1/2 inches tall, and 106 lbs.  By 1992, the gymnasts were
averaging 16 yrs, 4'9 inches, and 83 lbs.  However, I calculated the stats of
the top six gymnasts at championships (who will likely represent the US in
Atlanta, IMO) and if the stats shown in the broadcast are correct, I think
they're very interesting.  The average age has jumped back up to 17 1/2 yrs,
height to 4'11 1/2, and weight to 93 lbs.  Strug and Moceanu are the only
gymnasts under 5 feet tall.

I wonder what Joan Ryan would have to say about that. (Especially if these
gymnasts win a team medal in Atlanta)

Just some food for thought....


PS.  Did anyone else order that calandar that was offered on this list for
free?  I believe they said it would delivered in 4 weeks, but it's been 5 and
I haven't heard or seen a thing.  Please e-mail me privately if you have
info!  Thanks!


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 19:57:25 -0700
From:    ***@SEATTLEU.EDU
Subject: Nationals

In regular international meets don't the vault scores get averaged?  I
think the scores should be averaged for the nationals and the trials so
the girls get used to it.

I really like the way Amanda Borden congratulates Jaycie and other
gymnasts. She is a real team person.

Corrie ;)
Way to go Dom D and Jaycie!!


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 23:09:03 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Nationals-What else?

I've been enjoying reading everyone's opinions of Nationals so much I finally
decided to add my own.  Here goes. . .
**Microphones on the coaches - I found this very distracting.  It really took
away the beauty of the floor routines to have to listen to the coaches.  Mic
them before or after, but not during competition.
**Juniors - I wish they'd show some highlights.  It would be nice to catch a
glimpse of the up and coming stars.  CONGRATULATIONS VANESSA!!!!!
**If I were a gymnast I'd like to train with Kelli Hill or Mary Lee Tracy.
 They seem down to earth and compassionate with their gymnasts.  Mary Lee
Tracy's gymnasts were the only ones who even seemed to care about one
another.  Shannon and Jennie never even looked at each other, neither did
Dominique and Kerri.  But Amanda and Jaycie seemed really pleased with each
other's performances.  That's probably why they're my favorites.
**Dominique M. I think she's been over rated.  She doesn't seem to have as
much difficulty as some of the other gymnasts.  I think she could easily add
a twist to both her beam and bar dismounts.
**Dominique D.  This Dom is incredible.  When she's on, her optionals are
**Shannon - She's not my favorite (probably because I can't stand Nunno) but
I was glad to see her do so well.  Her beam was overscored - IMO- but she
really nailed floor and bars.  She was the only one to stick her vault
landings too.
**Jaycie, Amanda and Kerri - class acts, all 3
**Jennie T. - I'd love to see her make the Olympic team.  I think she's going
to keep coming back strong.
**The men- How come so few were shown?  We never caught even a glimpse of
Kip, Chainey, Jair and others.  How come?


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 23:51:50 -0400
From:    ***@GROVE.IUP.EDU
Subject: Nationals--falls

I've seen a lot of messages about Shannon's fall on beam and being overscored.
What about John R. and his Dad petitioning the judges for a better score on p
bars? How many spaces would he have fallen with out the 9.150 being shot up to
a 9.55.

Yeah Shannon! Too bad about Bill Roth though...



Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:05:14 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: Nationals Field

Mihai's PH routine has been upgraded since Sabae and is now starting at a 10.0.

>         Oh one more thing.  Re: Mihai Bagiu and pommel horse.  He was a
> finallist on this event in Sabae (he placed fifth) and I recall that IG
> said his start value was only 9.8 (I think a 10.0 SV may have given him a
> medal; I don't recall the scores).  So from that standpoint it is
> definitely his best event.


Date:    Sun, 9 Jun 1996 21:37:27 -0500
From:    ***@MAGIC1.ORG
Subject: My 2-bits

I just wanted to put in my 2-bits-I was very impressed with the men!  =
They have improved a lot, IMHO.  I also want to send out a big congrats =
to Jennie Thompson!  She has been through a bunch lately, and though she =
doesn't look 100%, she is much improved from a couple of months ago!

I'd also like to let all the people I write know that we have had =
problems with our server (AGAIN!!!) and if you sent me, or I sent to =
you, a message in the past couple of days, chances are I did not get it. =
 Help me out here.....PLEASE!!

Third thing-as always I am looking for Spanish speakers to write to!  I =
know there are several here, so if you don't mind, I really need the =
practice and would love to know about things where you are!




Date:    Mon, 10 Jun 1996 00:07:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: MORE nationals comments...

Heaven forbid I go a week without posting, esp. after a major competition!

Just some observations...

Does Shannon have just one record of gypsy violin music?  It seems that every
new routine is another 90-second cut.  But, silly me, I still love it--she has
great music and her own style.  (And thank god Nunno stopped putting his other
gymnasts' routines to "Shannon music" and "Shannon hairstyles" etc...)

I've watched and re-watched and slo-mo'd Shannon's beam fall and to me, it
looks like after her second layout she was tying to do an immediate 1/2 turn.
I remember Christy Henrich did a combo of ff-layout-layout-imm. half turn at
1989 World Trials...  I just can't figure out what happenned to Shannon!  Her
hips were aligned, her feet were squarely on, and she just turned on purpose,
it seems.  Oh well, another gymnastics mystery.

About the Amy Chow commercial--How many times have y'all heard a RADIO BROAD-
CAST of a gymnastics meet?  Still, a very cute idea.  Also, I finally saw the
Kodak commmerical with Dawes in it--the voice they use for Dom isn't HER voice,
is it?

I like Moceanu's music.  It works for her.  I wish she would have found it
before putting us through Twist Again hell.  Plus, Dom likes country music, so
that seems a little fitting...  And she has developed eye-contact like no other
(except Khorkina, of course...).

Dammit, NBC, turn off the coaches mikes!  I think the whole purpose, which is
to get the coaches natural response, is lost.  A lot of the coaches' comments
seemed totally fake to me.

And Elfi needs to lay off Jennie Thompson's form.  Do you guys realize how much
it's improved?  Just watch some tapes of 1994 GW Games and you'll see.  I think
her form is not just improved, but actually really good.

And as stupid as Tesh's comments may be (Jaycie a newcomer and a young upstart
while Moceanu is an old veteran???), I actually laughed when he said "This just
in:  Shannon has lost partial hearing in her right ear" or something like that.
Steve's louder than Bela ever was.

And I sense a little Okino-flashback with Moceanu's tumbling...  Way too easy,
but still gets the scores?  Oh well, we'll see.  Also, since event finals
weren't televised, can anyone talk about some of the routines?

Yikes, I'm done.

A little happier with the state of USA Gymnastics than I was yesterday,

Go Jaycie!!


End of GYMN-L Digest - 9 Jun 1996 to 10 Jun 1996 - Special issue