GYMN-L Digest - 9 Jul 1996 to 10 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 25 messages totalling 641 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. New Gym (2)
  2. Comments on USAIGC's  (LONG)
  3. Ratings for Olympic Trials
  4. WAG: Dina's FX at Europeans. (3)
  5. Cokes and Calcium
  6. Elfi Schlegel in TV Guide (CAN)
  7. GYMN-L Digest - 8 Jul 1996 to 9 Jul 1996
  8. Larissa Fontaine's dismount
  9. Guys predictions
 10. Correction to Kim Kelly Article
 11. Final questions and comments on US trials
 12. Predictions: Mens
 13. Implic's of Dropping/Adding Sports/Disciplines to OlyGames
 14. Podium Training Tickets, July 17.
 15. Dominique
 16. '92 Women's Olympic Coach?
 17. GYMN-L Digest - 7 Jul 1996 - Special issue (2)
 18. ALISA BLOWS
 19. Gymnasts featured in magazine "Far Eastern Economic Review"
 20. AG: Exhibition (2)

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 07:14:19 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: New Gym

It always seems like I'm asking for help from y'all, but here goes again.

I'm looking for advice from those of you who have opened up their own gyms.
 How do you select a site?  What type of building do you have?  How many
square feet?  Equipment?  Rent or buy?  How much did it cost--and what year
was it :-)?  Who financed it?  How can we do it if we're not independently
wealthy?

The crap we've had to deal with at our P&R program has become unbearable, and
we want to go it alone.  We feel we can improve the level of
instruction/training tenfold.  Problem is, we're all poor for having worked
for the county for so long.  Please e-mail me privately.

Help!
The other Vanessa

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 09:22:23 -0400
From:    ***@NORFOLK.INFI.NET
Subject: New Gym

>It always seems like I'm asking for help from y'all, but here goes again.
>I'm looking for advice from those of you who have opened up their own gyms.
How do you select a site?  What type of building do you have?  How many
square feet?  Equipment?  Rent or buy?  How much did it cost--and what year
was it :-)?  Who financed it?  How can we do it if we're not independently
wealthy?
>
>The crap we've had to deal with at our P&R program has become unbearable,
and we want to go it alone.  We feel we can improve the level of
instruction/training tenfold.  Problem is, we're all poor for having worked
for the county for so long.  Please e-mail me privately.

>Help!
>The other Vanessa


If anyone who answers Vanessa could please also privately email me as well,
I would be sooooo appreciative.  I am also looking for these answers!
Thanks,
Conne

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 09:27:43 -0400
From:    ***@NORFOLK.INFI.NET
Subject: Re: Comments on USAIGC's  (LONG)

At 05:07 PM 7/8/96 -0400, you wrote:

>9.9 on bars was well deserved. When's the last time you've seen an
>international competition where a gymnast has thrown a front giant full,
>double front combo?? The other Gymstrada gymnast, (name escapes me) gets the
>credit for hitting beam when it counts most, after 2 previous falls from
>teammates!!!


The other gymnast on the team competing for Gymstrada was Kit Johnson who
competed as a level 10 last year.
Connie

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 09:07:00 EST
From:    ***@MCIMAIL.COM
Subject: Ratings for Olympic Trials

It's possible someone posted this info already and I blinked, but here
goes:

The Nielsen ratings for the two hour, prime time Womens' Trials
finally proved to the network suits that gymnastics is a viable prime
time contender.  According to The Hollywood Reporter, the final half
hour of gymnastics posted a 12.0/21 share.  And the total broadcast
garnered a rating of 9.6/18 share.

Folks, that's top 20 performance in this summer season.  As a
yardstick, for the week that ended June 23, the number 4 rated shows,
original episodes of Primetime Live and 20/20, each had a 12.1 rating.
And in that same week, a repeat of The Nanny scored a 9.6/18 share --
good enough to be ranked 13th.

All in all, not too shabby a showing for gymnastics <g>.  Hopefully,
the sport can ride the crest of the wave evidently (and likely)
resulting from Atlanta, and finally get the airtime it deserves.

Melissa

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 10:39:17 -0600
From:    ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: WAG: Dina's FX at Europeans.

I think that this was a style issue. I don't think the judges liked this
style of FX. Otherwies, I couldn't find error. She's just incredible
and had alot of difficulty (and 10.0 SV as I was told) in her routine.
Personnaly, I like her 1994 exercise better, but you have to change
routines....sigh.

As for Marinescu's beam, she won JUNIOR BB, so they wouldn't show it all.


With Fab in the lineup in Atlanta (possibly), Ithink the Russians could
do alot better than people are giving them credit. People have been assuming
they would come up forth since that is how they have done it in the past
two Worlds.  But it was *REALLY* close, and the Olympics fever is
powerful stuff. DOn't be surprised if they take a medal *AHEAD* of the US of A.

Jeff

July: Dina Kotchekova appreciation month.

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 08:44:26 -0700
From:    ***@SCE.COM
Subject: Cokes and Calcium

>Somebody wrote that Dom M had 5(!) cokes during the optionals at Trials.
>Has anyone else ever heard that caffeine "sucks" calcium out of a
>person's body?

I was concerned about this for my own children and did a little research on it.
The caffiene isn't the problem but the phosphoric acid used for
carbonation.  From what I understand, the body must use calcium to carry
the phosphates out of the body.  Based on this I don't allow my children to
drink sodas that use phosphoric acid to carbonate (such as Coke and Pepsi).
Check the labels, some like Welch's and A&W don't use phosphates.


A source for info is "Ask the Dietician (tm)" at
http://www.hoptechno.com/sportnut.htm

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 11:58:49 +0600
From:    ***@COGNOS.COM
Subject: Elfi Schlegel in TV Guide (CAN)

Sharyn Clarkson wrote:
>Elfi Schegal was a Canadian gymnast in the late seventies, I think she
>was an Olympian, maybe some Canadian GYmners can provide some more
>detail.

Elfi Schlegel was the 1978 Commonwealth Games champion and made the 1980
Canadian Olympic team, which was boycotted.  She also won a bronze medal
on vault at the 1980 World Cup.  She trained at the Xoces-Eagles School
of Gymnastics, later Gymnastics Mississauga, under Mary Lea Palmer.  She
went to university in Florida on a full scholarship, competed in NCAA's,
and graduated in broadcast journalism.

She has had sportscasting contracts with CTV, TSN, CBC, and now NBC.
She covers artistic and rhythmic gymnastics, freestyle skiing, and
equestrian.

She was featured in this week's (sold last week) TV Guide, Canadian
edition, sporting her NBC Atlanta 1996 blazer and her recipe for some
kind of Swiss yogurt-cereal dish that she enjoys eating.

Elfi is 32 years old, single, and resides in Oakville, Ontario and keeps
an address in New York City.  You can probably write to her at NBC,
Rockefeller Plaza, NY, NY.

Regards,

Grace
...from the Elfi generation...

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 12:21:58 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 8 Jul 1996 to 9 Jul 1996

In a message dated 96-07-09 06:04:29 EDT, you write:

<< AP surveyed "sports editors, columnists, writers, sportcasters and
 commentators" to find out which sports they think should be dropped from the
 Summer Olympics and which should be added.  Rhythmic gymnastics was the 3rd
 least popular sport -- 57% of those surveyed said it should be dropped.  The
 least favorite was sailboarding (69% for dropping it), 63% wanted to drop
 synchronized swimming and 53% didn't like beach volleyball.  42% said they
 wanted golf added to the schedule!  After all, there isn't enough golf on
 already.(sarcasm) >>

How sad.  To think that people might give credibility to a bunch of clowns
who have trouble even naming a sport that doesn't have a BIG TIME
professional program behind it. I, for one, would regret the loss of any of
the sports listed, but especially Rhythmic.  The vast majority of this group
surveyed is so closed minded about what constitutes sport that they seem
totally unable to appreciate the artistry and the physical skill that go into
the performance of any sport outside the small confines of their experience.
 Come on, rating golf as a sport ahead of the sports they want dropped?  GIVE
ME A BREAK.  They just want to get rid of anything they don't understand,
which, ultimately, constitutes anything outside football, basketball,
baseball, tennis, and golf, with an occasional nod to track and field in
deference to its role in developing athletes for their favored sports .

And, while I am ripping the sports reporters of America (isn't it great, and
rare, when you actually encounter a sports JOURNALIST, instead of a reporter
who is prepared to regurgitate what information is handed to him/her on a
silver platter), I must ask,
WHAT IS ALL THIS GARBAGE ABOUT THE DECATHLETE BEING THE GREATEST ATHLETE IN
THE WORLD?  They seem to take this as a clear truth, and beyond question.
 Personally, I think that an All Arounder in artistic gymnastics has to show
a greater range and variety of athletic skills than any decathlete.  The test
would be how long it would take each athlete to achieve a levle of
proficiency at the other's sport.  The gymnast can far more easily learn the
events of the decathalon than the decathlete can ever learn the skills of
gymnastics.

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 12:14:39 +0600
From:    ***@COGNOS.COM
Subject: Re: Larissa Fontaine's dismount

LizardRod wrote:
>Someone mentioned that Larissa Fontaine had a signature dismount off the
>uneven bars.  Seeing as some how I've managed to NEVER have see Larissa on
>tv, can someone describe to me what it is?

It's a flyaway Arabian double tucked.  She does it with good amplitude and
 rotation
too.  It appears to be as difficult to do as the backswing double front tuck
 (like
what Borden does). I'd like to see more women doing this dismount -- getting a
 bit
tired of the archy-backed double layout flyaways.  Wouldn't it be cool if Phelps
did it in a layout? -- it'd look just like her vault!

Regards,
Grace

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 00:03:46 -0500
From:    ***@MAGIC1.ORG
Subject: Guys predictions

We keep hearing about girls predictions but nobody has said anything =
about the guys yet?  I don't know enough to predict anything but Yuri =
Chechi winning rings.....anybody have any ideas?

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 13:26:08 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Correction to Kim Kelly Article

I want to thank Julia for sending me the article on Kim Kelly.  I
followed Kim's wonderful collegiate career closely as I am a fan of the
Georgia GymDogs.  Kim has much to be proud of.  I am sure, however, that she
would be the first to want to correct a statement in the article.  Kim did
NOT win the Southeastern Conference all-around competition.  Lori Strong, of
the University of Georgia, won with a score of 39.575.  Georgia also won the
team competition.  Kim did tie with Jenny Hansen, of Kentucky, and Leslie
Angeles and Leah Brown, of Georgia, for the floor title, with scores of 9.95.


Bill

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 13:35:00 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: Final questions and comments on US trials

>Hello to all,
>
>Just a few simple comments and questions in regards to the US Olympic Trials.
>
>2. What is the purpose of the chalk markings on the side of a balance beam? I
>saw this at Trials and noticed it before. Are they for the benefit of the
>gymnast or the judges?

The gymnasts use it to mark on the beam where to start
certain elements or combinations.
>
>3. Mary Beth Arnold's beam routine actually resembled a floor routine IMO. It
>was nice to watch.
>
I enjoyed her beam routine as well.  However, I thought the
dance in her floor routine was lacking.  I didn't like her dismal
music either.

Jordynn

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 13:35:03 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: WAG: Dina's FX at Europeans.

>
>
>As for Marinescu's beam, she won JUNIOR BB, so they wouldn't show it all.
>
>
Oops!  Maybe I was thinking of Puerto Rico where they didn't show
her beam?  Or maybe I'm just hallucinating.

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 10:43:32 +0100
From:    ***@ASUCLA.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Predictions: Mens

The Japanese team will have the best hair... at least 0.7 up on the field...
Their leader in this area will be Tanaka closely followed by Hatakeda.

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 13:41:10 +0600
From:    ***@COGNOS.COM
Subject: Implic's of Dropping/Adding Sports/Disciplines to OlyGames

Here's something interesting I learned yesterday about the implications
of dropping or adding sports or disciplines to the Olympic Games
programmes.  I was interested to know if other disciplines in gymnastics
(FIG), such as sport acrobatics, sport aerobics would ever be added to
the Olympics.  Apparently, there is a "quota" for each sport and that
additional disciplines can be added only at the expense of reducing
numbers of participants in the other existing discipline(s) of that
sport.  Artistic and rhythmics are two Olympic disciplines of the sport
of gymnastics.  Swimming, diving, water polo, and synchro are
disciplines under aquatics; beach volleyball and indoor volleyball are
disciplines under volleyball; etc.

For example, sport aerobics or acrobatics could be added if team
artistic gymnastics is removed.  The IOC wants to drop team artistic
competition, so FIG has a few major choices to make:  add more countries
into qualification for artistic, add acrobatics and/or aerobics, add
more rhythmic events or competitors, etc.

There is also discussion as to where FIT (trampoline and power tumbling
international federation) will merge with FIG (artistic, rhythmic, sport
aerobics, sport acrobatics).  So, this may open up another barrel of
monkeys too.

An exception to the quota rule may be the addition of another gender to
an existing discipline or sport.  For example, women's soccer (aka
football) was not added at the expense of men's soccer.  Theoretically,
adding men's rhythmics would not reduce the number of participants in
artistic or women's rhythmics.

There is clearly a movement within the IOC to encourage gender equity in
the distribution of Olympic sports by adding sports and disciplines that
have equal participation of both genders.  More women's events are being
added than men's disciplines because the Olympics were traditionally
male-dominated. Back in the 1980's, rhythmics and synchronized swimming
were added to "equalize" wrestling, weightlifting, and boxing. For these
1996 Games, equity is demonstrated by the addition of women's soccer,
softball, triple jump, epee fencing, as well as mixed doubles badminton.

So, the bottom line is that if anything gets added, it'll be either a
women's discipline or a mixed sport, or something will have to get cut
back -- starting with artificial team competitions (deemed as simply a
summation of individual scores).

Regards,

Grace

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 14:25:39 -0400
From:    ***@GRFN.ORG
Subject: Re: WAG: Dina's FX at Europeans.

OK, I'm sorry, but topredict the US will finish out of the
medals in Atlanta is pure...well, I'll be nice, and say
it is not a wise comment. I can support this.

1) The US beat the Russians at Worlds last year even without
two top athlete and two others who didn't even make trials (Dawes,
Chow, Borden and Powell). With the exception of Powell, all will be in
Atlanta. and at top form.

2) The Russians were missing only Fabrichnova from the squad they are
taking to Atlanta.

3) The US had many mistakes at worlds, notably from Theresa Kulikowski
and Mary Beth Arnold, the two athletes forced to step in.

4) The US team has upgraded their difficulty and vaults and routines
since last year.

Not only do I expect them to be in front of the Russians, they should
challenge for first. They are an extremely talented group.

(I also forgot to put in that Shannon and Jaycie competed injured. Sorry,
no backspace available).

Now, I'm not saying the Russians won't medal. But to predict the
US won't is silly.

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 14:36:03 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Podium Training Tickets, July 17.

I have access to 4 tickets for podium training on Wednesday, July 17.  If you
are interested, please e-mail me privately.

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Date:    Sat, 6 Jul 1996 19:42:48 +0200
From:    ***@MAIL.TELEPAC.PT
Subject: Dominique

Dear fellow Gymners:

Just an interesting information for all Moceanu fans -- and non-fans -- (I'm
included in the former) showing that her popularity in the U.S. has been
channeled to other countries. Last night, one of the Portuguese TV channels
aired the first of a series of daily programs about the Atlanta Olympics;
they had a piece on female Olympians and, regarding gymnastics, showed Olga
Korbut, Nadia Comaneci and, the most promising American gymnast for
Atlanta,..... Dominique Moceanu (showed one of her tumbling runs)!

I'll take the opportunity to inform that Portugal will be represented in WAG
by Diana Teixeira, who recently competed in the Europeans.
GO DIANA!

Isabel F.
With regards from Porto - Portugal

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 15:26:36 CDT
From:    ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: '92 Women's Olympic Coach?

Who represented the role of female coach for the US women's Olympic team in
Barcelona?  Was it Rita Brown?  If not, wasn't she there and what was her role?

Thanks.

Shawn

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:31:21 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 7 Jul 1996 - Special issue

In a message dated 96-07-08 15:33:37 EDT, you write:

<< Kochetkova's tumbling is good enough but IMO, there is far too much
 standing around and not a whole lot happening on the choreography side.  I
 think that this is where the difference lies.
  >>

Myself being a big Dina fan, I was disappointed in her choreography.  She is
doing the same routine, but has changed the choreography a bit from the last
time I saw her FX, and you're right, now there is a lot more standing around.
 And her front handspring- rudi isn't lengthwise on the floor anymore, but on
the diagonaI.  I thought it was very original to do it lengthwise.  I wonder
why she changed that.  Does anyone know what I'm talking about?  I hope she
changes her routine back before the Olympics, but I doubt she will.

Jenny

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:58:52 -0400
From:    ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject: Re: ALISA BLOWS

Hi,
I feel the need to defend myself, and I am sorry for taking up everyones
time and space.
I said in my post that I shouldn't have been saying what I was saying,
but I said it anyone.
First of all I didn't misquote acrokid at all, and I have the message to
prove it.
I was deeply affected by his comments.  I myself am very thin, but I have
a friend who is a former gymnast who almost died of complications from
anorexia and bulimia.  She was never fat, and her coach was a wonderful
man who tried desperately to help her.  The cause was a guy in the
standas at one of our meets.  After she finished her cault, he screamed
down and called her a pig.  That one comment almost killed her.
I am a very sensitive person who would never purposely say or do
something to hurt someone.  It is apparent that that is what I did to
acrokid.  For that I am sorry.
But I would hardly call me a pirana.
If people have responses to this, please due it privately.
Alisa

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 20:07:53 EDT
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Gymnasts featured in magazine "Far Eastern Economic Review"

The July 4, 1996 issue of Far Eastern Economic Review has a cover
story about how top Chinese athletes are now looking for monetary
awards beyond the glory of medals for China.  Gymnasts are
heavily featured, including a cover photo of Mo Huilan, and
interior color photos of Ji Liya and Li Xiaoshuang.

A couple of disturbing items in the article by Matt Forney:

The manager of Yunnan's women's gymnastics team pays "a hefty fee"
to another gymnastics institute to get a promising nine-year-old
for her team.  "She's young, so she probably won't burn out,"
says the manager.  "I see a bright future--I'm interested."

Although the best athletes, like Li Ning, can cut nice deals for
themselves, things are so rosy for most athletes. A coach for
Yunnan says that since the gymnastics training cuts into
school time, his athletes' "cultural level is low."  The drop-outs
can't even get factory jobs, and may wait years for employment.

>>Kathy

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Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 19:59:35 -0600
From:    ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: AG: Exhibition

Will NBC be televising any of the exhibition events going on prior to the
Games? I don't get TV GUIDE so I don't know. Any comments.


Jeff


Dina, Dina, oh yeah Dina.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:18:39 -0400
From:    ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: AG: Exhibition

i don't think so...i saw the tv guide for next week and all i saw was the
sports illustrated preview of the games and then the opening ceremonies...


> Will NBC be televising any of the exhibition events going on prior to the
> Games? I don't get TV GUIDE so I don't know. Any comments.
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Dina, Dina, oh yeah Dina.
>

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 1996 23:47:15 -0400
From:    ***@COMET.NET
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 7 Jul 1996 - Special issue

I originally wrote in regards to what I saw as overscoring Pod on bars and
floor at the Europeans, individual event finals:

>> Is Podkopayeva the new Cinderella that can do no wrong?

Sara replied:

>What are you completely against Podkopayeva,? Yes, I agree with you on bars,
>but some judges don't see from our point of view. And on floor I thought
>Kochetkova's floor was simply not vibrant and was boring she didn't have all
>the combined elements of tumbling and dance and even the commentators thought
>that she should win

>From this response and a number of others it became obvious to me that
although Dina's landings were better, a lot of people found Pod's
choreography superior.  I see what they mean, in a way, though a couple of
her moves seemed a bit cutesy for my taste.  Other parts I loved.  On the
other hand, it seems everyone agrees Khorkina deserved the gold on bars by
herself.

I am not against Pod at all; matter of fact, I think she is a fantastic
gymnast.  I also think that of Lavinia Milosovich, but there was no way that
she deserved a gold medal on bars over Lu Li in the 1992 Worlds.  And I
thought Lavinia should have come in second to Henrietta Onodi in the
vaulting finals in the '92 Olympics.  And back in 1988, Daniela Siliva kept
getting 9.9s for her yurchenko full, which was always piked and not terribly
powerful (compared to many superior vaults which scored 9.7 or thereabouts).

The three above gymnasts are three of the gymnastic greats and I know
judging gymnastics is subjective.  But still, all the gymnasts work hard and
if someone pulls out a superior routine, I wish she could get rewarded.  I'm
against choosing stars and then overscoring them.  Conversely, look at
Chusovitina: where are all her vaulting awards?  She sure deserved more than
she got, in spite of the fact she had a good reputation.

True fairness is just an ideal, impossible to achieve, but I wish that more
gymnasts could get justly rewarded.

Eaffie

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 9 Jul 1996 to 10 Jul 1996 - Special issue
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