GYMN-L Digest - 9 Feb 1996 to 10 Feb 1996

There are 17 messages totalling 350 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. WWW page
  2. Life after Complusories.
  3. UB: The BEAT
  4. Still need L. Podkapayeva's music
  5. just a reminder
  6. California Gymnastics Clubs
  7. Boys Team & the Booster Club
  8. UGA/UA on t.v.?
  9. Chelle Stack
 10. Non US gymnasts
 11. Floor music
 12. UGA/UA on t.v.? (fwd)
 13. German giant
 14. magazines (2)
 15. RSG - Rules for different levels in the US
 16. Judging rules--NCAA's and squat-ons for bars


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 05:36:58 -0700
From:    ***@RMI.NET
Subject: WWW page


For those who visit the Gymn page often: if you have it "cached", then
please be sure to hit "reload" on your next visit to the page to view
it properly.

Also, -- I have not received many new submissions for personal WWW
page URLs for the "Gymn People" page.  This page is found by visiting
the home page and then clicking on "More about Gymn" and then
"People".  Please feel free to submit your URL for this page!



Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:38:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Life after Complusories.

Jeff asks:
>I have been wondering about something. HOw will national (US, RUS, CAN, etc)
>federations handle their national champs and other events without
>compulsories? Will there be just a one shot, optionals only event, or
>will it be a series of competitions? This has me wondering how they
>will do this, since most use INTERNATIONAL rules (kind of) to establish
>winners. Anyone know what will be happening in a federation near you?

At women's (December 95) and men's (Feb 23-24 96) Elite Canada the seniors
compete two rounds of optionals.  The women competed Ib on Day 1 & II on Day 2.
Since we haven't qualified a team to the Olympics, there's no point in
competing compulsories.  This gives rising juniors an opportunity to debut at
the senior year without being in limbo for a year.

Another nice effect of no compulsories would be that Nationals will be about
a day shorter.  :^) But there will probably be two optionals competed there too.

I'm more curious to see at a more micro level the effect on gymnasts of not
having to train compulsories.  Will they train the same amount of time?
Will the quality of optionals improve?  Will they get to sleep in or go home
earlier?  Go ask your nearest elite coach...




Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:04:34 -0600
Subject: UB: The BEAT

Where does this word come from? Why is the move called a "beat". Is this
an old move or is some credited with its invention. I've always wondered about
it since it was the mainstay of some many routines a long time ago but is
gone now from most routines since the bars are set wider now to allow
more giant type skills.



Usual warnings.


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:39:13 -0500
Subject: Still need L. Podkapayeva's music

Still looking for name/source of Lilia's music this year (what she used
during the floor finals shown on tv last weekend).  Please email if this
has been answered before to death....



Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:02:15 -0500
From:    ***@GNATNET.NET
Subject: just a reminder

Remember, ya'll, the official irc chats are Sunday at 2:00pm EST and
Monday at 10:00pm EST, on #gymn on Dalnet!


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:39:31 UTC-0800
From:    ***@CS.UBC.CA
Subject: California Gymnastics Clubs

There are Club teams at Sacramento State, UC Davis.
at least two years ago there were.

UN Reno I think also had a team



Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 10:23:27 -0800
From:    ***@SCE.COM
Subject: Boys Team & the Booster Club

I've volunteered to look into including our new boys team with our girls
team in our booster club (Charter Oak Gliders - Covina, CA, USA).  We're
okay from a legal/tax perspective but I'm not sure about other kinds of
impacts.  Our current booster club supports 60 girls levels 5-elite and our
boys team is 12 compulsory and 3 optional boys. The first thing I need to
do is gather information (both factual and anecdotal) and I need help.

If you are currently or were even involved with a booster club if you could
send me some information (e-mail to me directly - I'd
appreciate it.

1). Do you have boys and girls teams both in your booster club?
    Why or why not?

2). If so, does it present any particular challenges?

3). Do you know the average annual unit cost for compulsory and optional boy
    gymnasts?  (our girls range from $600 compulsory to $2500 10/elite)

4). Optional: include the name of your club and number of gymnasts supported

I will post a summary to the list after I've done some analysis.

Thanks ahead of time for your help.


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:33:44 CDT
From:    ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: UGA/UA on t.v.?

Has anyone here in the south found out or know when the broadcast of
the Georgia/Bama meet will air today on SportSouth.  Can't find it
anywhere and no one seems to know.  It was stated in the Program
guide it would be on Feb. 9th.


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:19:16 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Chelle Stack

This is regarding when someone asked when Chelle Stack was "big".  Did you
watch the Olympic Games in 88?  She was on the Olympic team and a very good
asset and a National Team member!


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:55:20 PST
From:    ***@AMDAHL.CO.ZA
Subject: Re: Non US gymnasts

Another one is Christian Brzeanu who was born in Romania but now competes
for South Africa.


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:59:31 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Floor music

Does anyone who attended the Peachtree meet know what music Jennie Thompson
uses?  Also, will Moceanu and Zmeskal have new music soon?


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:59:50 EST
From:    ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: UGA/UA on t.v.? (fwd)

An article in the UGA's "Red and Black" indicated that SportSouth is
scheduled to air last week's Georgia-Alabama meet at 10:30 tonight,
Feburary 9th.


----------------------------Original message----------------------------
Has anyone here in the south found out or know when the broadcast of
the Georgia/Bama meet will air today on SportSouth.  Can't find it
anywhere and no one seems to know.  It was stated in the Program
guide it would be on Feb. 9th.


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:50:05 PST
From:    ***@GEOWORKS.COM
Subject: German giant

> Would someone please tell me what is:
> 1) a Shaposhnikova
> 2) a Markelov
> 3) a german giant (different than a front giant or
>    inverts?)
> Private e-mail appreciated if these are too elementary
> (I could have sworn the german giant was defined here
> before, but couldn't find it in the digests).  Thanks.

        Even if they were elementary I'm sure it would benefit many people
on the list to hear descriptions.

        Can't help you with 1.),but:

        2.) A Markelov is an over the bar release move.  Some background:
        A hecht is where you (from underhand grip) release and fly over the
bar (it was an olympic dismount one year...).
        A reverse hecht is where you release from overhand grip and fly
backward over the bar, normally straddling and regrasp on the other side.
This is the most common hecht seen on highbar or uneven bars.
        A Veronin is a forward hecht where you do a half turn over the bar
and regrasp on the other side.
        A Markelov looks like a mix between a Veronin and a reverse hecht.
It begins in the underhand grip like a hecht or Veronin, but very early
(right after the release) you do a half turn and then go over the bar
backward (usually straddling like a reverse hecht) and regrasp.

        3.) German giants are a dorsal cubital ("back hand") grip where
your shoulders don't dislocate.  It is basically a "skin the cat" position
(if you have heard of that).  It is entered into by having an overhand grip
and stooping through. Your shoulders won't dislocate in this position like
they will if you were in an underhand grip (which would put you in eagles
or inverts).
        A similar grip is a Russian giant, which is the same thing with an
underhand grip.  A Russian is like an eagle or invert where you have a very
narrow grip to keep you from dislocating into the eagle or invert position.
        Both of these grips are usually awkward to get out of because the
shoulders aren't dislocated, and you don't tend to see them that much.



Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:00:55 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: magazines

Fellow gymners,

I was flipping through this month's issue of Mademoiselle, and there is an
article about eating disorders, well anyway (to make a long story
short)...there is a quiz about different 'food attitudes'.  One of the
questions is this, " Are you involved in a competitive physical activity
(e.g. dance, gymnastics) where thinness is rewarded?"  Just thought that
everyone might ponder over this somewhat offensive thing.


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 18:30:32 -0800
From:    ***@UNISERVE.COM
Subject: RSG - Rules for different levels in the US

Hi, originally my daughter was scheduled to compete in the Portland, OR
Valentine Invitational.  However, because of the flood, the trip was cancelled.

I know that the levels and requirements of the junior levels are different
than Canada. Are there any judges/atheletes out there that knows the
competitive rules so that we can be prepared if we do compete in the States
in the future.

Thank you.


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 20:32:16 -0600
Subject: Re: magazines

Well, it is a fact, proven by many studies and much research, that
eating disorders are much more common in appearance sports. Many athletes
who have disorders while in sports ackowledge the pressure to "be thin."

That it is only one question of many is appropriate, since there are
undoubtably other pressures and factors involved.


Date:    Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:49:59 CST
From:    ***@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Subject: Re: Judging rules--NCAA's and squat-ons for bars

Just for information sake since I've seen lots of discussion...

I'm not sure how many GYMNERS know that the NCAA modifies the USGF (or FIG)
rules.  So, for example, a handspring front tuck vault has a Start Value of
9.9 for NCAA meets, yet is only a 9.7 in age group.  There are also
modifications on beam (a layout-step out is a "D" skill for NCAA) and on
floor ex the Popa remains a "D" and the Rudi is an "E."  With the modified
rules, it is easier for the college atheletes to get their 10.0 Start
Values.  Just thought y'all (that from a Northerner!) should know at least
ONE of the reasons the NCAA scores may appear high relative to age group

Also, squat-ons on bars.  Internationally, one is allowed I believe, but
beyond that there is (I think) a .05 deduction for each one.  I'd have to
go look it up specifically, but Myra, maybe you're reading this and can
confirm that!  In the age-group program we have the compositional area
where we would tend to deduct if we saw too many repetitive, low-level
connections.  While a deduction is not "set in stone," I think most judges
would use a compositional area to separate the creative connections from
the mundane.



End of GYMN-L Digest - 9 Feb 1996 to 10 Feb 1996