GYMN-L Digest - 9 Oct 1995 - Special issue

There are 12 messages totalling 516 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Women's team
  2. Women's team, front tumbling and the Phelps
  3. WORLDS: notes (2)
  4. Worlds Notes
  5. Vitaly Scherbo vs. LI Xioshang
  6. Sherwin DSF
  7. Hadyn
  8. TEAM
  9. Worlds
 10. 60 Minutes-Help!
 11. 60 Minutes! (Long...)


Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 09:29:20 -0400
From:    ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Women's team

> offense, but i don't believe the right team was on top of the podium. China
> threw the most difficult sets, and the most elegant. How can you explain
> giving Gogean a 9.875 for her bars set, and Mo only earning a 9.862? I know
> unrewarded. AND! China threw the gretest routines of the night, and
> finished second. *sigh* Haven't we learned anything?

China did "win" optionals.  We'd have to see what happened in
compulsories (where they were fourth, remember) really to tell whether they
should've won.

As to the "Phelps" -- I recall Shannon falling on that vault at Worlds,
and if you fall you don't get it named after you.  Body position does
make a difference sometimes, for example, an Omelianchik vault and an
Ivancheva vault are the same (RO, 1/2 turn on, front off), except the
Omelianchik is piked and the Ivancheva is tucked.



Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 09:02:25 -0500
Subject: Women's team, front tumbling and the Phelps

Date sent:  9-OCT-1995 08:51:48

A couple of quick things:
1)Someone mailed me last night, and subsequent posts pointed this out as
well. China won optionals. I know that. What I'm saying is that they should
have won by more, if the routines we saw are any indication. But as Rachele
pointed out, we only saw a few routines. My point is, China not only throws
the code, they do it in refreshing ways and with form and polish that is
lacking from the other top teams.

2)Someone mailed me a told me this, too. It is named after Phelps because
she actually landed it. I had been under the impression that Miller had
thrown it in prelims at the 1994 Worlds, but iether I'm wrong or that did
not count. *shrug* On a side note, both Phelps and her coach, according to
the person who posted it to me, wanted it named the Miller/Phelps.

3)On the front tumbling aspect. I was leafing through a 1990 IG yesterday,
and I came accorss coverage of the 1990 Desert Devil classic, which pointed
out Sandy Woolsey's first tumbling past, which I had forgotten (shame on
me). She threw, according to them....woops, misread it. It was a back full
to triple full, not front full to triple full. Sorry. *blushes*
In any case, that would be fun to see, too. d+e would be some terrific

I leave with one thought. What I saw yesterday really points to a terrific
competition in Atlanta. And *grins* I still cannot recall anyone dropping
out of a front-full like Miller did. God, was that gorgeous. i don't know
if she is the best out there (right now, I'd have to agree Pod is) but she
definitely is one of the strongest. Gratz to Miller, Khorkina, the chinese
men and women (for not taking the cheap code and throwing the hard stuff)
and last to the Pod, who finally pulled it all together.

PS I'd better add this, before someone flames me. I like the Romanians, I
thought they did well. But they, while throwing the more difficult moves,
lacked amplitude, esp[ecially from what I saw at bars, and they lacked
originality, which even Johnson pointed out. Still, they did well. I just
think we need a more reflective scoring system, which others have been
pointing out ever since Yang Bo came along.


Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:09:56 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: WORLDS: notes

Some interesting info from the newswires:

Scherbo's gold medal on floor is his 13th.  This is referred to as a
"record breaker", I assume for number of gold medals in World and
Olympic competitions.  Amusingly, Reuters refers to Scherbo as
"chirpy".  (The old record: 12: was also held by Scherbo.  grin)

Li Donghua's gold was Switzerland's first gold in 40 years.
Apparently Li moved to Switzerland in '89 because he was kicked off
the Chinese National team for marrying a Swiss woman.  Hmm.  I wonder
what David would have to say about that one.  ;) (David=former Chinese

Chechi's ring title was his third consecutive.  The only quote from
Chechi is about the championships being in Asia: "I didn't find a
pizza and that was a big problem."

Scherbo, re his victory of Li in the floor exercise: "Everyone was
really happy I won today. Not because I won, but because he lost. Mr
Li doesn't respect other gymnasts. Even if you're the best you should
respect the others."

(Li had said in the press conference on Sunday, after he won, that
Scherbo was not good enough on rings to win the all-around.  Check out
the WWW pages for the quote.)

Scherbo, again: "Every gold is special, for everybody, but especially
for me because it's become very hard to compete with so many good
gymnasts in the world."

AP describes Khorkina's bar victory as follows: "Chorkina pirouetted
her way to the top with an exuberant routine that drew roars from the
capacity crowd in the 8,000-seat Sun Dome."

AP says Strug withdrew from vault finals due to a foot injury.



Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:24:49 -0400
Subject: Worlds Notes

Just a few comments/questions:

1.  Why were only Bela and Liddick on the floor with the US team.  Were
they only allowed two coaches?  Why was Liddick picked over Tracey or
Forster?  It was odd to watch Shannon going off to the sidelines to talk
to Steve since he is usually such a visible coach.

2.  When Bela and Mary Lee Tracy were giving their "congrats" speech,
some of the girls ( Arnold, Phelps, and Kulikowski most notably) looked
like they were about to cry.  I hope that they were just tired and not
dissappointed, because they did a wonderful job winning the bronze:-)

3.  I agree that the deapth of the US team in Atlanta will be amazing.
I'm so glad I live close to Boston and can go to the trials!!

4.  I think Kerri Strug deserves congratulations in a big way.  After
years of just missing the all-around competition, she finally got to show
the world her stuff.  Maybe this will help her scores in American
competitions, where I've always felt she has been underrated.  Her floor
in the team comp. was beautiful!!

5.  Did the US have to set their competition order for optionals before
they knew of Shannon's injury?  If not, it does not make since that they
had her go up 5th, after Kerri Strug, instead of keeping Strug back in
her best events.  Did Moceanu have harder passes than at nationals?  If
not, I think Strug would have been a better floor anchor.

6.  Regarding the Romanians, I agree with the posts about their lack of
originality.  I would not think that they will necessarily be the ones to
beat in Atlanta.  I think their lack of amplitude and identical bars and
beam sets will bring them down if the Chinese hit and the US women are
all healthy.  The only Romanian routines that ever impress me are their
stuch 1 1/2 and 2 twist Yurchenkos.  Marinescu's beam was nice, as was
Amanars tumbling (but not her choreography)

7.  This championships makes the Olympics look like it will be an amazing
competition, for both the all-around and the team titles.  (5th place was
the lucky spot in 1991 with regards to the olympics the next

8.  I want to add my thanks to everyone who has added posts about the
worlds.  It has been so nice to come back everyday from my 9 o'clock
class and get the worlds results:-)



Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:33:41 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Vitaly Scherbo vs. LI Xioshang

 I was just wondering whether anyone else seemed to be upset at the fact that
Li Xioshuang is a very poor winner. for those of you who haven't seen the
direct quote from the WWW, i will do my best to get the point across.  At a
press conference after the AA, LI and Scherbo were together, when Li decided
to subject his opinion of Scherbo's rings on everyone, saying that is why he
can not win the all around.  Scherbo just nodded humbly and said he would
work harder.  Li must have forgotten the 1992 Olympic games, where Scherbo
clinched his AA win on rings, and where he came back to win rings in the
evnet finals.  Being a competitive gymnast for 8 years, i would have smacked
anyone who did not have constructive criticism for my work.  What has the
world of gymnastics come to when we have other gymnasts critcising the runner
up to his/her face.

Just had to blow some steam-------


Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 15:51:53 +0100
From:    ***@GL.RHBNC.AC.UK
Subject: Sherwin DSF

Sherwin, Mostly I would like everything of the womens competition.  I would like
 some of the mens, namely floor, vault and bar, but if I am being too difficult
 in asking for that give me all the mens competition also.

Many thanx

Sarah  :)


Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:01:28 +0100
From:    ***@GL.RHBNC.AC.UK
Subject: Hadyn

Hiya Hadyn:)

Yes I did get your last msg.

My full name is Sarah H.  I work full time at a unversity. ( thats how I
 get to use the net).

Evenings and weekends are spent in the gym coaching.  The gym I coach in is
 called Spelthorne School of Gymnastics and teaches Artistic (womens), Rhythmic,
 and Sports Acrobatics, all up to International level.

I myself only coach Artistic, but love to watch the other when I'm in the gym.

Amoung our former stars are.....


Lisa Elliot  (3 times British Champion)
Rowena Roberts (1 times British Champion)

Sports Acro

Natalia DeCruz and Emily Crocker  ( Junoir World Champions)

Sorry don't know about Rhythmic
Our current stars include


Sonia Lawrence (Came 3rd at the last British Champs, and Silver vault at the
                last Commenwealth games)

Sports Acro

Andrew Griffiths ( tumbler..silver medal world  junior champs 1995)

I am 20 years old, and have been in the gym scene for 8 yrs, and coaching for 5

Well thats all for now.

Write back soon

Sarah :)


Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:05:23 -0600
Subject: TEAM

Hi there.

I just watched the team comp for both the men and women yesterday.  So I
have to put my 2 cents in.  I'm a big, big, big POD fan and I'm so glad to
hear that she won the AA and can't wait to see it.

Then Men's team comp was wonderful.  Wasn't it nice to see the ROM men win a
medal for the first time ever???  How about Jap, they have not medaled in
what I heard was the last 20 years.  I think it was great.

As for the women...I think the comp was a little bit heart breaking for
Shannon Miller.  You could just see the pain in her eyes.  If she was all
better, we would have seen a different Shannon Miller in the AA.  The U.S.
team really put a great effort together and the Chinese women were
wonderful.  I've never seen that team preform that good.  They were
wonderful on balance beam, did you see how high those layouts were on the

I think these were great world team efforts by all the countries.  I'm from
Canada and I"m disappointed that my team didn't make it to the Olympics so
I'm cheering for the US!  As for little Dom, I think she could have done a
bit better on that first vault, but then for the second she hit her vault
and everything was ok for the US.

Speaking of IG magazine...when am I going to finally get mine???????

Anyways, please write me with some further comments if you want.



Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 12:14:03 -0600
Subject: Worlds

I noticed alot of scuffling of the feet on landings and I noticed a lot of
use of "crash pads" under the apparatus. Are these now legal? Hard to believe
that people are using them since they often were jumping on the landings.
Noticed that alot on H-bar, UB, and rings.


P.S. Thanks for the info on the "Phelps" and the body positioning, Adriana!


Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:59:01 -0400
Subject: Re: 60 Minutes-Help!

[This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII]

Well, I can't believe that there is not more talk about this on
Gymn today.  Thus far, I have been approached by three people
asking me what I thought of the _60 Minutes_ segment last night.
I need to get hold of a copy of the show or a transcript so that
I can defend against what was said.

Does anyone have the address of the company that distributes
transcripts for _60 Minutes_?  Better yet, did anyone have their
VCR running last night when the show aired?  If you watched the
show, maybe you can post a synopsis of the segment (who was
interviewed, how one sided was it, etc).  Please let me know
soon, I expect a lot of questions when I get to the gym tonight.



Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 15:20:52 -0400
From:    ***@PITT.EDU
Subject: Re: WORLDS: notes

> Li Donghua's gold was Switzerland's first gold in 40 years.
> Apparently Li moved to Switzerland in '89 because he was kicked off
> the Chinese National team for marrying a Swiss woman.  Hmm.  I wonder
> what David would have to say about that one.  ;) (David=former Chinese
> Gymner)

Though not a gymnast, I'm a big sports fan. Had Li Donghua ever been in
the Chinese national team ? I've never heard of this guy before last year's
worlds in which he won a bronze medal in PH for Switzerland. My impression
is that he was from the province team. I could be wrong, though.

BTW, could you please tell me whether there will be compulsory exerises in
Atlanta ? Thanks.


Date:    Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:05:50 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: 60 Minutes! (Long...)


We saw 60 Minutes last night but only part of it. We saw a lot of it
but not the beginning because our mom called us downstairs and told us
there was gymnastics on tv. Since we had a tape still in the VCR from
taping the
worlds :)  we were able to record what we saw of it. We will do  a
write up of it and give some quotes too. Here we go...

When we first came in Kristie Phillips was being interviewed.
After Kristie started  becoming a woman. The sins of all sins for a
gymnast  (Kristie) Bela started calling her a stuffed turkey. She rose
from 88-98 pounds.

1976- the average gymnast was 17 1/2 yrs.old  5 3  106  pounds
1992- the average gymnast was 16 4 9  83 pounds

Kristie ate less than 500-600 calories a day training 7 hours a day and
lost 20 pounds  in 2 weeks
Kristie missed the Olympic team by .003
Kristie said that she felt that all she was left with in life was to
gain weight. She became bulimic and then suicidal and was hospitalized
for treatment. She said that she doesn t think that she is 100% cured
but doesn t think that she will ever be.
Then they mentioned Christy Henrich....
  In fact, Sanfransico chrionicle sports reporter, Joan Ryan, says that
most of the gymnasts trying to get to the Olympics have endured
everything from emotional to physical mistreatment. She got so caught
up in the story, she wrote a book about it.

Interview with Joan..(clips of it)

Joan was asked about what the girls go through and the acusations of
child abuse.

A. Oh, absolutely. When you go to some of these gym and watch and see
what these coaches put these girls through that are recovering from
injuries because they are in a race against time and can t afford the
time off to l
et the injuries heal. The  physcolgical abuse that theses girls go
through, The names that they re called, the names that they re
worthless. They leave these girls feeling like failures and that
follows them for a long time.

Studies saw that 60% of gymnasts have suffered from some disorder of
eating anywhere from laxatives to anorexia to bulimia.

They talked to Cathy Scanlan (?) and asked her what they would do if
they found out that one of the coaches called one of the gymnasts an
over stuffed turkey. Cathy said that all they can really do is talk to
them and tha
t s about it.

The report followed Bela around his hotel. She keeps trying to get a
comment from him. He was really friendly to her and laughed a lot and
smiled. He said that he didn t want to be a part of the program.The
reporter said
that they were banned from covering the US Championships and the
Worlds. Bela rambled on and on but it was hard to understand. The
reporter kept trying to ask questions like if he called his gymnasts
over stuffed turkeys
and kept asking questions as he was trying to lead her out.

They next had an interview with Amy Jackson. She said that she didn t
want to be an Olympic star but her parents were obsessed and as soon as
she was good enough her parents moved so she could train with Bela. She
said th
at he called them names like idiots. Her dad would make her train more
when she got home.
Amy s mom said that she didn t respond to the name calling and doesn t
know why. They weren t worrie about what was happening to their minds
just how many rotations they got and how much time they got working
with the coa
ch. After her parents got divorced and Bela ignored her and all she was
left thinking about was what Bela thought of her and that is what she
knew of herself. She began cutting herself and things becuase she knew
how to d
eal with physical pain but not mental. Before her graduation she tried
committing suicide and doctors say it is because of severe depression
caise by child abouse from gymnastics and her parents.

Joan Ryan says what makes gymnastics is set apart from other sport
because no little legue player trains 7 hours a day and no parent would
send their football player to practice with a broken arm because there
aren t the
stakes and they don't have to make the sport at 14 or 15 years old.

They then went to Tom and Lori Forster s gym and we will quote this
since it is a good part :)

There is no rambling about weight and the gymnasts are self motivated.
They train 30 hours a week.

Q.  I m going to give you a choice. You can either have a champion or a
healthy little girl

A. Lori: Well why can t you have a champion and a healthy girl
     Tom: Why can t we have both?
Q. Thats the crust of the question. Can you have both?
A. Lori: Well, we have an American Cup Champion that is a healthy young
girl. Whether an Olympic Champion, I don't know.
Bela is the only coach to train two Olympic champions.. Has a shot of
Dom. Moceanu with him and Mary Lou with him.
Kristie Phillips then says that she wouldn t call the system abuse.
Back then she would have said it was but now she doesn;t think it was
because he thought he was making them what he thought they wanted him
to do, making
 them the best.  If he didn t call her names and stuff she wouldn t be
able to do what she could do because she would have the motivation.
--Joan Ryan comes back on responding to the question  does this man
[Bela] have zero heart? .
 In his mind her really cares about the gorls. After my three or four
hour interview with him for my book with him, I was so blown away... I
was ready to do a flip on the balance beam for him. He was so- I mean,
I underst
and why these girls would run through wall for him and I understood why
the parents would be so sucked in by this charming charisma that they
would say take my child make her a champion.


That s basically what we saw. I hope ya ll enjoyed it!! Bye!!

Your fellow GYMNers,
Margi and Mardi  :)


End of GYMN-L Digest - 9 Oct 1995 - Special issue